NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm posting this because ARF-COM and IBTL was banned due to the fact that someone claimed he posted illegal information. The information isn't illegal and here's the proof.


http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a7
(A7) Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle? [Back]


With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a nonlicensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms.
However, a person is prohibited from making a semiautomatic assault weapon or assembling a nonsporting semiautomatic rifle or nonsporting shotgun from
imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machinegun will not be
approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a federal or state agency. [18 U. S. C. 922( o), (r), (v), and 923, 27 CFR 178.39, 178.40, 178.41 and 179.105]

Definition of a semi-automatic assault weapon:

18 U.S.C. 922(r), imposed in 1990, prohibits "assembling from imported parts any semi-automatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation." BATF's regulation [178.39, Commerce in Firearms] prohibits using more than 10 "imported parts," from a list of 20 parts, such as trigger, hammer, barrel, etc. (BATF had proposed prohibiting using more than two imported parts.) The provision was adopted to prohibit restoring modified rifles to pre-ban configuration after importation.

c. for the purpose of this section, the term imported parts are:

1. Frames, receiver, receiver castings, forgings or stampings.
2. Barrels
3. Barrel extensions
4. Mounting blocks (trunions)
5. Muzzle attachments
6. Bolts
7. Bolt carriers
8. Operating Rods
9. Gas pistons
10. Trigger housings
11. Triggers
12. Hammers
13. Sears
14. Disconnectors
15. Buttstocks
16. Pistol grips
17. forarms, handguards
18. Magazine bodies
19. Followers
20. Floorplates

I'm posting this because ARF-COM and IBTL was banned due to the fact that someone claimed he posted illegal information. The information isn't illegal and here's the proof.


http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a7
(A7) Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle? [Back]


What possible relevance do the laws of some obscure foreign country have to do with a website hosted on servers located in the UK and owned by an Australian?

technically, you can manufacture a firearm, even a semiautomatic one, from plans and raw metal (provided you do all the machining and casting of parts), and you make all the parts yourself.

You can't sell it, and you can't take it across state lines. It's still a firearm, though.

Making a fully automatic weapon from scratch, or making a silencer from scratch is still a problem. You can, however, get a permit to do so.

What possible relevance do the laws of some obscure foreign country have to do with a website hosted on servers located in the UK and owned by an Australian?


It's just information. Just words. It's not like he offered to ship guns to Australians and Englishmen. Is the information illegal over there?

Is the information illegal over there?

Whether it is or not, your claimed evidence is irrelevant.

Whether it is or not, your claimed evidence is irrelevant.
The evidence shows that it's legal in the US. Granted, whether or not it's legal in the UK or Australia is a different story, but I'm not sure the guy should have been banned for posting information. Maybe the mods could have deleted the post and warned him, but banning's a bit harsh IMHO.

Maybe, maybe not. But I can't imagine that Australian or UK laws would take too kindly on information regarding the construction of assault rifles going about freely in their domain too kindly. It may be legal in the US, but when you post it on a server in UK where it is illegal, that get's you into trouble.

Harsh perhaps, but if it had been taken to a logical extreme, Jolt might have gotten into serious problems with the law. So banning isn't beyond the list of possible punishments.

and if they had deleted posts and warned him before?

edit: i dont know if this is the case but it is a fair supposition i think.

and if they had deleted posts and warned him before?

edit: i dont know if this is the case but it is a fair supposition i think.
He's fairly new, so probably he hadn't posted anything similar before. Also I think he's the type to obey the rules when he knows them.

It's just information. Just words. It's not like he offered to ship guns to Australians and Englishmen. Is the information illegal over there?
Technically, yes. (in England anyway) Philip Luty's book "Expedient Home Made Firearms - the 9mm Submachine Gun" (http://spaces.msn.com/members/Syniks/PersonalSpace.aspx?_c02_owner=1&_c=) is on the Banned list, and is available in England only to certain people under strict guidelines at specific libraries - from which it is never to be removed.

Luty, an Englishman, wrote the book to detail how anyone with 3 brain cells and simple hand tools can build a fully automatic "Sten"-type submachinegun from stock tubing and wire - proving that gun-bans are largely irrelevant. The Home Office then threw hi into jail for being a smart-arse. :rolleyes:

Moved to Moderation section.

Just for completeness of information, the Assault Weapon Ban has expired over a year ago, and withing the 10 or less rule of 922(C), so called assult weapons may be assembled by home hobbyists, as long as they are not fuly automatic. Home assmebly of Class 3, or NFA firearms as described by the National Firearms Act of 1934, is completely and wholly prohibited since the addendum of the GCA of 1968 was added to NFA34. The 9th Circuit recently ruled against this act, but was overturned, and instructed to re hear en banc, which has not occurred.
Ergo, to wit, it is completely legal for someone in a state in the US which does not have it's own silly AWB, to assemble his own semi auto AR15 or AK from parts, and a homemade reciever, without serial number, one per year, and not for sale. I wish I could, but lack both the tools and training to do so, and at $300 for a nice AK clone, why bother.
If the 9th Circuit had not been overturned, I would have bought a Sten kit, and built my first submachine gun, just for grins.
How many crimes have been committed by legal homemade firearms, built by legal hobbyists? To the best of my law enforcement knowledge, zero.

Technically, yes. (in England anyway) Philip Luty's book "Expedient Home Made Firearms - the 9mm Submachine Gun" (http://spaces.msn.com/members/Syniks/PersonalSpace.aspx?_c02_owner=1&_c=) is on the Banned list, and is available in England only to certain people under strict guidelines at specific libraries - from which it is never to be removed.


Posting a link to scans of a copyrighted work in the Moderation forum? For shame.

EDIT: oops. You didn't actually post the link after the thread was moved to this forum. Mea culpa. Apologies.

How many crimes have been committed by legal homemade firearms, built by legal hobbyists? To the best of my law enforcement knowledge, zero.

In my country? Dozens of people have been killed by homemade firearms - mainly submachineguns - over the past thirty years.

The way your sentence is constructed so as to suggest that because people are 'legal hobbyists' and thus can't commit crimes is ingenious but flawed - they may be 'legal hobbyists' until they commit a crime, but after that they no longer fit that category.

Posting a link to scans of a copyrighted work in the Moderation forum? For shame.

EDIT: oops. You didn't actually post the link after the thread was moved to this forum. Mea culpa. Apologies.
:D Actually, it is a link to my generally private webspace which contains a link to my archival copy of a book I own. The link was to the link was posted to allow people to understand the issue - not for distribution.

Since it requires at least three distinct actions to do more than peruse the information, the responsibility for violating copyright by duplicating my (legal) archive copy rests solely on the accessor... especially if possession of said information is "illegal" anyway. :p

In my country? Dozens of people have been killed by homemade firearms - mainly submachineguns - over the past thirty years.Interesting. Which country?
The way your sentence is constructed so as to suggest that because people are 'legal hobbyists' and thus can't commit crimes is ingenious but flawed - they may be 'legal hobbyists' until they commit a crime, but after that they no longer fit that category.Well, Armorvia was talking about the US, where such hobbies are legal with the right paperwork - so it's not particularly ingenious or deceptive at all. In the US, I cannot think of a Legal Hobbiest (one with the correct licensure to manufacture experimental firearms) that has committed a crime with said firearms.

Interesting. Which country?

Northern Ireland. Things are 'different' here.

Posting information on how to make your own weapons in real life is not legal in this forum. We don't particularly care where it is legal.