NationStates Jolt Archive

Dear Mods,
I received this warning in my TG's this a.m.:

"United Nations Intelligence Committee
Received: 10 hours ago This nation has been determined to be in breach of UN rules, which allow each player to have just one nation in the UN at any given time. This is an official warning, to allow you to rectify the situation. If you do not comply, the UN will be forced to take action against you."

I only have one nation and when I did have puppets - long gone - none were in the U.N. This is a private computer which my husband does not use and I am pretty sure that although I think they're brilliant, our cats and dog do not know how to use the computer. Could you please re-check this as there must be some mistake.

Thanks!

Esselldee :)

Oh, you cat-people. You never see your pets' evil machinations. :rolleyes:

Either you are lying or maybe someone has your same IP adresss (Unlikly but possible)...

New Dutch America, you WILL not flamebait people in this forum by suggesting that they are liars. You have been asked before not to comment in Moderation when the situation does not concern you, and I am now TELLING you: if you continue to spam, flamebait, and otherwise add absolutely nothing of substance to Moderation threads, you WILL be facing a forumban.

Esselldee -- Our records show your nation connected with two others current nations. Have you been signing onto other computers (at work, school, a library), or letting others sign onto yours? This might account for the warning you got.

Thanks for the reply, Katganistan! No - I only use this computer, which is in my home. No one else *ever* uses it. I don't know what to make of this as I only have this one nation. I had puppets, but got rid of them many months ago, and as I said, none were in the UN.
Is there any way someone else could have gotten into my computer from afar? I've done both AdAware and Spybot and scan every day with AVG and have gotten clean results.
I've never told anyone my password and I don't think I fit the demographics for cheating - I am a 44 year old married female. I don't know who/where the other two nations are and I have been in the region of Canada for approximately 1 1/2 years.
That's all the info. I can think of right now. Any other ways someone could have done this?
Thanks for your help,
Ess :)

Esselldee -- Our records show your nation connected with two others current nations. Have you been signing onto other computers (at work, school, a library), or letting others sign onto yours? This might account for the warning you got.is there a way to show when and how long these other nations have been signing on with similar IP addresses?

it could be a friend? I know when I visit my friends, I sometimes, ok, frequently, hop onto their computer to check my nations.

That could be exactly what happened, JuNii! I forgot 'til after I posted that someone from NS *had* come from a ways away to visit and I of course let her use my computer. I have just sent her a message asking if she logged on with her UN nation and am awaiting a reply.
Seriously - she's the only one from NS that has used my comp. and this time no one else has used it *really*!
*sighs*
Ess...

*edit*

She was here at the end of July for 2 days and nights. Could that be it?
Did this just come to light now?

Question from friends trying to help: Is there more than one IP address involved?

" Our records show your nation connected with two others current nations."

Did the Mods bother to check how long these "two other" nations have been established? Did this access happen more than once? I find this whole guilty until proven innocent approach of NS disturbing. Mods have plenty to things to do without senselessly stirring up players just because one or more of their friends also happen to play NS.

It's one thing to see the same IP used to access more than one UN nation once in a blue moon. It's a whole other thing to see the same IP used to access multiple UN nations repeatedly over time. It's much more likely to be cheating if the Mods see the same IP used to create and access multiple UN nations.

IF Ess got this message because one other person accessed their, long established, UN nation from her PC once; that seems to me to be a situation for the mods to monitor. Doesn't seem to take too much thought to rate this as most likely not cheating but monitor the IP address to see if the action is repeated rather than threaten Ess.

Did the Mods bother to check how long these "two other" nations have been established? Did this access happen more than once?Of course not. Don't you know that we get our kicks by ejecting people from the UN? We're obviously pre-pubescent bastards who have no lives and a horrible malicious streak. We're pure evil.

Luckily, the players have advocates like you: people who have no access to any information and a willingness to sling the most tired conspiracy theories handy.

I didn't say nor did I imply that the mods were evil or enjoy ejecting players.

I said that you are over-worked and that working smarter by including a slightly longer time window to very low level threats might make your life easier (and be much less distrubing to the innocent players).

Ess is a super nice person and deserves more consideration.

Edit:
Frankly as a player for two years I think I also deserve more consideration than your flamebaiting reaction. Clearly my thoughts are based on the limited information that I have available to me. If I've drawn the wrong conclusion then please feel free to provide the missing pieces.

Begging your pardon, but no one here 'deserves' more consideration or better treatment than anyone else. Exceptions are those who have proven themselves unable to work within the guidelines to an extent that warrants a ban. Those I think we can do without.

The fact is you don't have access to the facts behind this, up to and including how 'overworked' the mods are, or their competancy in their duties. Anything you offer that way is coming purely from an emotional standpoint and lacks any proof whatsoever. I'm sure your friend is a very nice person, and I'm sorry she's lost UN status on account of whatever problems are behind this.

It still doesn't give you the right to go around tossing accusations carelessly and implying that a) the mods aren't doing their jobs or that b) some people are more deserving of consideration than others. (EDIT: No matter how long they've been around, or who they think they are.) It's irresponsible and unwarranted.

--Nathi's Player

You somehow seem to think that we did not send a warning because we saw a pattern over a period of time, but rather jumped to a conclusion based on a one-occasion happening?

Oh wow, those mods must be biased to send a warning asking a player to make sure they've only got one UN nation rather than ejecting them from the UN immediately.

This logic that one can not question the people with access to information is exactly how Bush got the US into a war with Iraq.

If what Ess said is correct (I totally believe her) then the mods have the threshold for sending warnings set much too tight IMHO. We lose a little bit of our liberty everytime we let some one with power (or information) treat us as guilty until proven innocent.

You somehow seem to think that we did not send a warning because we saw a pattern over a period of time, but rather jumped to a conclusion based on a one-occasion happening?

Oh wow, those mods must be biased to send a warning asking a player to make sure they've only got one UN nation rather than ejecting them from the UN immediately.

Right - you are the one who said: "Our records show your nation connected with two others current nations." and then Ess said: "She was here at the end of July for 2 days and nights"

If no one says there were any other incidents then it would seem to be over a very short period of time....

Edit:
Please stop taking any questioning of your actions as an attack. If you receive zero feedback how do you ever expect to improve the quality of your service?

Hudson Bay,

I love how you attack our internal policies without even knowing what they are. This case was addressed properly.

Nations are innocent until proven guilty. That's why there are many nations in the UN. We investigate nations for many different reasons. If we find evidence to make us sufficiently confident that a nation is a UN multi, we eject them. Thus, we only judge them guilty after finding enough evidence.

What happened here is that there was enough evidence to be very suspicious, but the mod in question determined that the likelihood of this being an innocent mistake/false positive was sufficiently high that instead of ejecting the nation, they send them a warning so that the player could remedy the problem. In this case, that is exactly what the player did. The player looked and figured out what happened. Since the player is (well, at least appears to be) innocent, they don't need to worry about something happening again (and they'll be more careful with other people accessing nations in the future) so their nation is in no danger.

Hudson Bay, I fail to see what your problem is with these proceedings.

First it is possible that I may be coming off strong enough that it appears that I am attacking your policies. I appologize if that's the case.

Second if I'm reading what you said correctly then It appears that NS will send out a warning for a handful of multiple UN nation accesses from one IP address that happened over a few days, several months ago, even though the events did not happen again.

My problem is two fold:
1) I'm of the opinion that, with the facts as I know them, your threshold for sending warnings is excessively low and very disturbing to players without an understanding of IP addressing (or any player for that matter).

2) Any attempt to question this warning process is meet with venom from the mods (It's to be expected from the mod wanta-bes :) ).

I'm sure that dealing with many different types of players is a challange. I would hope that this case would be used to reconsider just how soon a warning should be sent.

Please believe me that if you receive that warning when you did nothing wrong you feel as though your are being treaded as a guilty party.

Thank you so much, SalusaSecondus! I am sorry I caused so much trouble by not thinking! :(
I certainly will be *extremely* careful if ever I have visitors from NS again!

Ess :)

Preventing UN fraud must be very difficult. Still something is not quite right if letting a friend use your computer once or twice is regarded as suspicious enough to rate a warning...

She seems to be fine with how this is panning out. Perhaps it's time to reign it in and let the lady 'fight' her own battles? You're not making yourself look any better with the continued yapping. The only one I'm seeing screaming about 'injustice' here is you, boyo. Nor have you managed to answer challenges about 'status' or 'consideration', I'll note. Interesting, that.

Let it go already. It's just a heads up warning, for crying out loud.

Thank you so much, SalusaSecondus! I am sorry I caused so much trouble by not thinking! :(
I certainly will be *extremely* careful if ever I have visitors from NS again!

Ess :)thought it was unusual that they sent you a "warning" (nice and thoughtful, but unusual) since my friends and I were just booted out... but we're cool with that. "Ignorance is no exscuse for rulebreaking."

nice to see that they did consider it a mistake/fluke/something other than a diliberate attempt to break rules. :D

And Hudson, if her friend was there for a couple of nights, [s]he might've stayed on for several hours during those couple of days, thus raising the flag.

I have a feeling, (not knowing the methods and procedures invovled) that they did note that the other nation uses another IP and that this violation only occured a couple of times (maybe) which is why a letter warning of the infraction was sent and not automatic action. Proof that the mods are trying to be fair... Underpaid, but fair none the less.

and your first post does sound like an attack on their methods.
"Did the Mods bother to check how long these "two other" nations have been established?"
could be taken as the mods are incompetent when checking for rules violation. perhaps, "How long were the other two nations Established?" is more information asking than anything else. after all, we lowly players don't have the same powers as TEH MODS (thank God for that.)

"I find this whole guilty until proven innocent approach of NS disturbing." assumes that they just Kick people out at the first sign of rulebreaking.

with that in place, the Next two Paragraphs can be taken not as a critisism but you telling the mods how to do their job. something that can break the patience of anyone.

at least that's how I see your first post anyway. ;)

thought it was unusual that they sent you a "warning" (nice and thoughtful, but unusual) since my friends and I were just booted out... but we're cool with that. "Ignorance is no exscuse for rulebreaking."Depends on the circumstances. Evidence could have been much stronger for you, especially if it was a frequent event. Also, the UN Warning system hasn't always been in place.

Depends on the circumstances. Evidence could have been much stronger for you, especially if it was a frequent event. Also, the UN Warning system hasn't always been in place.oh the evidence was, we didn't know that our IP was appearing as the same computer. (Different computers but all connecting through the same LAN) which is why when it happened, we asked, got the explination and we moved on. we were guilty (not on purpose, but guilty all the same.) the warning that Ess received tho, was a nice courtesy. :D

besides, alot of us got tired of the old UN. now tho, we discuss it within ourselves and our "UN" nation then votes.

Does this mean that one should never access one's nation from another player's computer, nor allow another player to access their nation from one's own computer? My sister has accessed her nation, which is also a UN member, from my computer on a few occasions, although I have never recieved such a warning.

The warning system is not automatic. Because the various factors we check against require human interpretation, not everyone who registers as a multi is automatically warned or ejected. Sometimes the mods don't have time or energy to check the cheat lists, and stuff slips by for a while. Egregious cheaters tend to turn up at the top of multiple lists, and we'd prefer to stop them anyway.

As for you and your girlfriend, you would be better not logging in to each other's UN nations on the same computer. Had I stumbled across your nations while investigating a complaint, you would have gotten a warning. However, the activity does not appear egregious or particularly recent, so a simple "don't do that" would suffice.

Also if you have many puppet nations you have a while ago put one of them in the un and forgotten about it.

Hey, this is Beaver-Country-Canada;

I'm the one who signed on at Ess's house over a month ago. I then had one UN nation. I signed up for another one, and was booted out of the UN with both -- I don't care, but please take the warning off Ess, it was not her fault at all!

Besides, I got my last UN nation way after I got back from my trip; that was a few weeks ago, although I had BCC, my main nation, since I started NS.

Beaver-Country-Canada

Thanks, BCC!
It was my fault as it was my home, my computer and me not thinking, but I really appreciate that you posted the above! Thanks, sweetie!

*hugs*

Ess :)

It's settled. No worries.

I just joined Nationstates today. I have a question for this thread. I live in my home with my 2 adult age sons. They enjoy this type of game as much as I do. We have 3 computers that are connected to a router and then to our cable internet. Now if both my sons decide they want to join this game and create their own nations, then all 3 of us would be banned, even when we are 3 different people on 3 different computers, yet our internet connections are using the same IP address? I understand why you don't want cloning and such, but this seems a little extreme for those of us who just enjoy playing these games.

I just joined Nationstates today. I have a question for this thread. I live in my home with my 2 adult age sons. They enjoy this type of game as much as I do. We have 3 computers that are connected to a router and then to our cable internet. Now if both my sons decide they want to join this game and create their own nations, then all 3 of us would be banned, even when we are 3 different people on 3 different computers, yet our internet connections are using the same IP address? I understand why you don't want cloning and such, but this seems a little extreme for those of us who just enjoy playing these games.yep... the system cannot tell if it's 3 computers with 1 IP address or 1 computer with three Nations. I would suggest voting on who will be the UN Delegate and discussing/voting on the resolutions as they come up.

yep... the system cannot tell if it's 3 computers with 1 IP address or 1 computer with three Nations.
JuNii, please refrain from giving advice as if you were a mod. You are incorrect.

Betty, if you and your sons logged in to the same computer, we would consider you the same person. That is why we have been forced to set the ruling of "one person/computer = one UN nation". Junii is partially correct in that we might see your nations as sharing an IP address, but as has frequently been stated, we do not depend on IP address alone. And no, further detail will NOT be forthcoming.

As long as you stick to your respective computers, you should be fine.

JuNii, please refrain from giving advice as if you were a mod. You are incorrect.

Betty, if you and your sons logged in to the same computer, we would consider you the same person. That is why we have been forced to set the ruling of "one person/computer = one UN nation". Junii is partially correct in that we might see your nations as sharing an IP address, but as has frequently been stated, we do not depend on IP address alone. And no, further detail will NOT be forthcoming.

As long as you stick to your respective computers, you should be fine.
Ooops. sorry, that's what I was told when me and my friends were kicked out... didn't know other methods were added.

Again Apologies.

Now if both my sons decide they want to join this game and create their own nations, then all 3 of us would be banned, even when we are 3 different people on 3 different computers, yet our internet connections are using the same IP address? I understand why you don't want cloning and such, but this seems a little extreme for those of us who just enjoy playing these games.

They're only concerned about *UN* nations. You can have any number of non-UN nations you like.