NationStates Jolt Archive

I am considering offering nations established as legitimate natives in key regions in trade. I plan to trade for other nations with certain population or other particular characteristics.

Is it legal to 'sell' puppets to other players?

And if so, where in the forum would I put such an advertisement?

As far as I know, its perfectly legal, so long as you have a legitimate intent. In the meantime, it's probably best that you put such things under Gameplay -- 'tis my suggestion.

It is legal, but dangerous. The person receiving the puppet(s) will also receive any sort of warnings that the previous owner had, so do it with caution.

It is legal, but dangerous. The person receiving the puppet(s) will also receive any sort of warnings that the previous owner had, so do it with caution.

Should someone decide to pursue something like this is it possible for them to inquire with the mods about the existence of any such past warnings?

None of the nations in question have any sort of warnings or bad blood or bad reputation anywhere.

I would also stipulate that the traded nation be the same.

so yes, assuming you can't trust what someone might tell you, is there a way to find out the warning status of a nation?

Should someone decide to pursue something like this is it possible for them to inquire with the mods about the existence of any such past warnings?

EDIT: Actually, no, we can't tell you about the possibility of warnings for another nation. There is a wide range of abuse that could come out of it by claiming that someone else is 'giving' you a puppet.

Euroslavia, might I be able to suggest in that case, that in the case of puppet trading -- that instead of having the reciever ask Moderation for a 'background check', have the original puppet owner be able to query to Mods, and then use that statement as proof that the puppet is indeed safe to trade? That way, a puppet 'consumer' is enabled their background check, but in the same, the onus is on them to ask the 'seller' for a background check. Also, it provides the security nessasary which I think is what you fear would be abused.

Just an idea.

This proves my theory. Never take puppets from strangers, because it migh have warnings attached to it. I don't understand it one bit, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

It should be noted that selling nations for RP gain [ie: 'I'll sell you this five billion nation for X dollars'] is such catastrophically bad RP that I *think* it got banned.

Euroslavia, might I be able to suggest in that case, that in the case of puppet trading -- that instead of having the reciever ask Moderation for a 'background check', have the original puppet owner be able to query to Mods, and then use that statement as proof that the puppet is indeed safe to trade? That way, a puppet 'consumer' is enabled their background check, but in the same, the onus is on them to ask the 'seller' for a background check. Also, it provides the security nessasary which I think is what you fear would be abused.

Just an idea.This constitutes a large amount of work on our part for what we see as very little gain for the NationStates community. Thus, this proposal will likely be rejected.

Ultimately, anyone who wishes to trade puppets is willingly running the risk of being mistaken for a rulebreaker. You trade puppets at your own peril, and if you do get connected to a rulebreaker in this fashion, you likely won't have a case for pleading your innocence.

Long-story-short: Puppet trading is heavily discouraged.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

Assuming you aren't planning on doing anything with the nation that will warrant a warning, its past warnings shouldn't figure in.

Even if that nation DOES have past warnings, if it 'misbehaves' then only that nation would be at risk of deletion, right? (again, assuming there is no breach of the rules requiring an IP ban).

I am not intending to break any rules with any of my nations, traded or otherwise. Now, what the 'purchaser' does with the puppets is entirely out of my control.

It's just that I am in a position to offer sweet little operatives with no adverse history to invaders that need an innocent 'cover' nation. Mercenaries, if you will. I don't really even need the purchaser to trade a nation for them, but it just seems like I should be paid SOMETHING. I doubt I would even use the new puppet, other than maybe to trade it. ;)

Assuming you aren't planning on doing anything with the nation that will warrant a warning, its past warnings shouldn't figure in. Wrong.

Even if that nation DOES have past warnings, if it 'misbehaves' then only that nation would be at risk of deletion, right? (again, assuming there is no breach of the rules requiring an IP ban). Wrong again. If you possess a previously warned nation and do the same thing with any of your nations, ALL may be deleted.

I am not intending to break any rules with any of my nations, traded or otherwise. Now, what the 'purchaser' does with the puppets is entirely out of my control. The nations are still connected to your history, and will then have a connection to a new player's history, which can impact both the original owner and the second owner.

It's just that I am in a position to offer sweet little operatives with no adverse history to invaders that need an innocent 'cover' nation. Mercenaries, if you will. I don't really even need the purchaser to trade a nation for them, but it just seems like I should be paid SOMETHING. I doubt I would even use the new puppet, other than maybe to trade it. ;) It is, as we have said, strictly at your, and the new owner's, risk. If you would like to put your trust into another player such that you may lose your nations (and if they would like to place themselves in the same situation) be our guest but don't complain to us about any adverse results that may spring out of it.

I don't know about other people, but when I aquired a puppet a few months ago, I logged onto #themodcave and asked about any warnings on that puppet. The mods there (sorry, but I forget who they were, other than that Fris was there) checked it out for me, no problem. I don't know why; maybe policy has changed recently?

The nations are still connected to your history, and will then have a connection to a new player's history, which can impact both the original owner and the second owner.

It is, as we have said, strictly at your, and the new owner's, risk. If you would like to put your trust into another player such that you may lose your nations (and if they would like to place themselves in the same situation) be our guest but don't complain to us about any adverse results that may spring out of it.


I see. Thank you.

I don't know about other people, but when I aquired a puppet a few months ago, I logged onto #themodcave and asked about any warnings on that puppet. The mods there (sorry, but I forget who they were, other than that Fris was there) checked it out for me, no problem. I don't know why; maybe policy has changed recently?

probably find that when its an occasional request the mods wouldnt mind helping out, but like cog said to make it an offical service would give the mods loads more work.

Thats a good point Cog.

Jjuulliiaann, I would tend to lean toward believing that perhaps it's alright for now to check up on your own warnings from time to time -- but what Cog is refering to; would be for the fact that to actually use that as a service for specifically, puppet trading. If it were to be considered a regular service, I assume it would likely explode in activity and thus creating more work for the team.