NationStates Jolt Archive

-snip-

And for the record, post my warnings. I've lost count.

Here: Failing successful resolution, additional appeals may be made to the site admins, first to salusa@nationstates.net, and finally to admin@nationstates.net. Admin decisions are final. Do not email Max Barry, he'll just refer you back to [violet] or Salusa.

admin@nationstates.net

Thanks.

What's the email I send an appeal to if I think a moderator has made an unfair judgement or has just acted in a really ..... bad manner?

(Oh it's Melkor I'm talking about anyway, as well as Kat's ironic use of posting 10 times on a spam thread and refusing to admit that the mods haven't cracked down on an entire group of posters spamming in a thread before and just decided today that they'll enforce it just because we've been on NS a while)

And for the record, post my warnings. I've lost count.

Incorrect. When we get a mod report which states '$poster is flaming me!' we look at the thread. If the reporter and several others were also flaming, everyone gets warned.

Each person who was warned was engaging in similar behavior. How is it fair then that only ONE person gets warned and everyone else --especially people who know the rules-- gets a free pass?

Are you actually saying that because some posters are here longer and know the rules, they should be not be bound by them? Does anyone really believe that all posters are equal, but some are more equal than others? Well then, let me be the first person to say unequivocally that anyone holding this view is incorrect.

Out of respect for your privacy, I'll send you your warnings rather than posting them. You can then do with them what you like.

Incorrect. When we get a mod report which states '$poster is flaming me!' we look at the thread. If the reporter and several others were also flaming, everyone gets warned. Well of course.

Each person who was warned was engaging in similar behavior. How is it fair then that only ONE person gets warned and everyone else --especially people who know the rules-- gets a free pass? I don't know, but apparently today the mods just asked that question all of a sudden!

Are you actually saying that because some posters are here longer and know the rules, they should be not be bound by them? Does anyone really believe that all posters are equal, but some are more equal than others? Well then, let me be the first person to say unequivocally that anyone holding this view is incorrect.Debates go in the general forum. Move this thread if your going to debate in my thread. Otherwise you have the ability to lock this thread when the tide is not in your favor. Which really isn't right of you.

For the record, I did not lock the other thread. You should have your warnings now, as requested, so, aside from your assertion that I have treated you badly by warning you along with everyone else for the same rule-breaking behavior, your telling me to move a moderation matter to General in the rudest possible way (where it most emphatically does not belong), posting past lock, and your apparent argument that being expected to obey the same rules as everyone else is somehow inappropriate, is there anything else that you feel needs to be discussed?

Still would like to know my warnings.

EDIT: ahh...

Warned: Bad UN proposal "Monkey resolution". (25 Jan 2004, 10:27 PM EST) (I remember this, I was a month old and never posted a UN resolution before)

27-Apr-04 , Colodia , "flaming , flamebaiting" http://www.nationstates.net/forum/v...3101997#3101997

Added.. Flaming on the forum (May4/04); (Oh yeah, I called someone an idiot.)

26-Jan-05, Colodia, forbidden link, http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=392617

6-12-05, Colodia, Thread hijack, spamming, Warning, Original thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=425379 Split off hijacking: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=425402 (Don't remember. Apparently it has to do with boobs so I'm at a loss. *shrug*)

8/2/05 spamming http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9361999&postcount=3

These things supposed to be private?

For the record, I did not lock the other thread.
It seems rather odd that you are the only mod. to reply. Despite this is obviously directed at all mods. Kat you have to admit that was very odd the way you posted the warnings, one at a time? Anyway Colodia has a certain aspect of truth in the idea of not wrning everyone.

This really isn't a debate thread, Colodia. You asked Katganistan, or any moderator for that matter, a few questions. Seeing as Katganistan is a moderator (an official representative of the enforcements of the rules on this site), she has every right to tell you how it is, which is what she has done. I honestly don't understand what your complaint is about. If you look in the General Forum Rulings and Good General Advice, you'll see:

2) Word game etc. threads are no longer allowed.

3) "Post-whoring" will not be tolerated, and will be treated as spamming. If you're going to post, make sure you're adding something to the thread's discussion.

Everyone who posted in there, despite the fact that the rules are in the forums multiple times (in the General forum as well as the Moderation forum), as well as FaryTinkArisen's 'warning' to all that this type of thing was banned, continued to post there after the fact, knowing that they were breaking the rules. If anything, the players who have been here longer should have known that it was banned, since previous rulings have been established.

It seems rather odd that you are the only mod. to reply. Despite this is obviously directed at all mods. Kat you have to admit that was very odd the way you posted the warnings, one at a time? Anyway Colodia has a certain aspect of truth in the idea of not wrning everyone.

Not all of the moderators are online at all times. You can't expect other moderators to immediately reply to this, seeing as they volunteer their time (meaning they don't get paid for this) to take care of everything on this site. They have real lives as well.

This really isn't a debate thread, Colodia. You asked Katganistan, or any moderator for that matter, a few questions. Seeing as Katganistan is a moderator (an official representative of the enforcements of the rules on this site), she has every right to tell you how it is, which is what she has done. I honestly don't understand what your complaint is about. If you look in the General Forum Rulings and Good General Advice, you'll see:My complaint is that this hasn't been enforced in the past, so it was widely assumed from many people that it was okay to post in the spam thread, so long as it wasn't you that posted the thread in the first place. Suddenly he decided to crack down today? No something is most certainly not right.



If anything, the players who have been here longer should have known that it was banned, since previous rulings have been established.
You just echo Kat's justification. Which I answered in my appeal to the admin.

It seems rather odd that you are the only mod. to reply.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=435565

1) I am not the only mod to reply.

Despite this is obviously directed at all mods.

2) Colodia has an issue with why I warned him. Does it not seem reasonable that I answer his question?


Kat you have to admit that was very odd the way you posted the warnings, one at a time?

3) I wanted to make PERFECTLY CLEAR to each poster WHY s/he was being warned, to forestall the possibility of "What did I do wrong" posts. Why, did you think there was another reason?

Anyway Colodia has a certain aspect of truth in the idea of not wrning everyone.

4) I see. So, if ten people break the rules, only one gets punished? Doesn't seem equitable to me, somehow.

Not all of the moderators are online at all times. You can't expect other moderators to immediately reply to this, seeing as they volunteer their time (meaning they don't get paid for this) to take care of everything on this site. They have real lives as well.
Perhaps he is referring to the mod that locked my thread? Whoever that may be.

4) I see. So, if ten people break the rules, only one gets punished? Doesn't seem equitable to me, somehow.
That's not what he said. He said why was this only being punishable NOW? Which is a question I've asked enough times already that I've given up.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=435565

1) I am not the only mod to reply.

2) Colodia has an issue with why I warned him. Does it not seem reasonable that I answer his question?

3) I wanted to make PERFECTLY CLEAR to each poster WHY s/he was being warned, to forestall the possibility of "What did I do wrong" posts. Why, did you think there was another reason?

4) I see. So, if ten people break the rules, only one gets punished? Doesn't seem equitable to me, somehow.
Oh not at all. Do not think I am here to side with Colodia, I can see where you both come from. I more here to make sure my little friend does not dig himself in a rather large hole. As for your 4th response, I did not question that at all, and therefore would prefered not to admonish through repetition about something I never even stated. I am not questioning you, but more so stating that the response was a little off the beaten path.

Perhaps he is referring to the mod that locked my thread? Whoever that may be.
That would be me, assuming it's the one where I told you to stop whining. I'm the only other active mod, and I've been busy dealing with a hacked account while you've been bitching and moaning out here. After reading this load of tripe, I've about had it with your treatment of another member of the mod squad who fairly and responsibly answered your questions.

You take a week or so to wait for the admins to respond. You're forumbanned. You may appeal the forumban via the Getting Help page, but if you break ban with any puppets, both they and "Colodia" will be deleted.

That would be me, assuming it's the one where I told you to stop whining. I'm the only other active mod, and I've been busy dealing with a hacked account while you've been bitching and moaning out here. After reading this load of tripe, I've about had it with your treatment of another member of the mod squad who fairly and responsibly answered your questions.

You take a week or so to wait for the admins to respond. You're forumbanned. You may appeal the forumban via the Getting Help page, but if you break ban with any puppets, both they and "Colodia" will be deleted.
I have officially failed as babysitter. :(
"ask if your allowed to relay a flaming message from Colodia via MSN to Fris...
A flaming message from the utter depths of hell which he'll never be able to repeat in the future without reliving the nightmares" - Colodia

it seems he has lost his temper. He has many cusses in there. So am I allowed?

These things supposed to be private?

If you want to post them, that's your perogative.

I have officially failed as babysitter. :(
"ask if your allowed to relay a flaming message from Colodia via MSN to Fris...
A flaming message from the utter depths of hell which he'll never be able to repeat in the future without reliving the nightmares" - Colodia

it seems he has lost his temper. He has many cusses in there. So am I allowed?
I'm not a mod, but, I'd say that since it won't help his case, and would in fact worsen it for him, that you shouldn't. And it could likely get you in trouble as well.

I have officially failed as babysitter. :(
"ask if your allowed to relay a flaming message from Colodia via MSN to Fris...
A flaming message from the utter depths of hell which he'll never be able to repeat in the future without reliving the nightmares" - Colodia

it seems he has lost his temper. He has many cusses in there. So am I allowed?

Precedent has been made that posting for a forumbanned nation can result in consequences for the poster. Please don't.

As for teh argument "it's only being punished NOW", I have explained that multiple rulebreakers in a single thread have been punished before. There is no precedent being set here.

Now -- appeals have been made to admin, and really, I don't think there's much more that can reasonably be added...

I'm not a mod, but, I'd say that since it won't help his case, and would in fact worsen it for him, that you shouldn't. And it could likely get you in trouble as well.
as I well realize, anway he is too pissed to say anything remotely insulting. Honestly my rep. clean. I say what I think. I wouldn't post anything he said that I didnt agree with.

Well anyway I shall my opinion ont Colodia's banning, not his as right not he cannot form a thought, if the mods wish to warn me for it, go ahead. I am stating my opinion.

While Colodia may have over stepped his boundaries, I don't view his questions to Kat. as badgering or anything of the like. Kat. if you disagree, I will galdly listen to your point. I think at the moment Fris. you are being rather... whats the word.... biased. I believe your previous dealings with Colodia has resulted in your being so tempermental today. No only that, but in a post you seem to like you quote a lot, you could be viewed as flamebaiting. As I understand you are busy and I doubt you will put two thoughts to this post, I am going to clearly state I believe you didnt show modly behavior just now, again just my opinion, and I do not speak for everyone.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to chuck my two cents in. All I can say is that it seems that the Mods have been especially hard on the oldies of late. Myself, Whitter- and some others have all been deleted for what really should have been a slap on thw wrist.

It seems that younger nations are getting a free pass whilst nations who normally behave themselves are deleted.

This is perticually annoying because I'm sure the Mods know that older nations, if warned sternly, would stop. Namely because we have worked so much harder and longer on our nations.

This trend really needs to stop, I don't ever expect to get Rotovia back now. But I would like to see a little compassion and logic from the Mods. Because frankly, I think we deserve it.

As I said earlier, if anything, the older players should very well know the rules that have been set in stone, especially by the One Stop Rules Shop, not to say that the younger players have more of a leniency.

This is perticually annoying because I'm sure the Mods know that older nations, if warned sternly, would stop. Namely because we have worked so much harder and longer on our nations.

There've been many cases in which an older nation was warned sternly, and continued to break rules. Rulebreakers come at all ages. The fact that older nations being warned has been made more public than others doesn't mean that they are the only ones being warned/banned/deleted/etc. There really isn't anything to be 'worked for'. You've had your nation longer and you haven't broken the rules. You shouldn't be given any sort of special treatment because of it. Breaking the rules is what it is.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to chuck my two cents in. All I can say is that it seems that the Mods have been especially hard on the oldies of late.I've been reading in the Mod forum for a year and a half now, and I seem to recall the same sorts of complaints in the past from the likes of Beeker and Marathon, plus many many others. I don't have the history that some of the other mods do, but in my eyes it's been remarkably consistent.
deleted for what really should have been a slap on thw wrist.Colodia was given a slap on the wrist. Given his posted warning history above, Katganistan would have been fully justified in forumbanning him from the start. Instead, he chose to be surly, obnoxious, and rude enough to Katganistan that she recused herself from the ruling and asking anyone free (me) to step in.
It seems that younger nations are getting a free pass whilst nations who normally behave themselves are deleted.I'm not sure what "normally behave themselves" means in this context. Does it mean that Colodia, because he joined the game months or years ahead of other people, should be given free rein to spam and flame to his heart's content without repercussion, while nations that started yesterday should be deleted because they hadn't yet located the One-Stop Rules Shop? Old-timers DO get something of a pass from most of us, most of the time, because we assume that they will quickly snap to their senses. In this case, that didn't happen.
This is perticually annoying because I'm sure the Mods know that older nations, if warned sternly, would stop. Namely because we have worked so much harder and longer on our nations.Read up, and tell me how many times Colodia has officially been 'warned sternly'. Add in probably several direct or indirect 'soft warnings', and you'll begin to understand my opinion that he's just not getting it.
But I would like to see a little compassion and logic from the Mods. Because frankly, I think we deserve it.
Deserve logic? You get that. Read up, and read Kat's careful and concise explanations. Compassion? No sir, people don't deserve that, they have to earn it. In several threads, Colodia has treated his minor slap on the wrist as if he were being send to the dungeons for life. Given the choice of following the appeal protocol, he decided to just go straight to [violet] and bypass all the middlemen. Yeah, that's an approach guaranteed to win.

I don't understand why there's a sense of entitlement about age-based rulebreaking. There are rules, you follow them. More experienced players should follow them better than anyone else. To expect otherwise strikes me as lunacy.

The irony of it all is that the new posters who've been recently slapped on the wrist have been complaining it's the old-timers who get the free passes.

The irony of it all is that the new posters who've been recently slapped on the wrist have been complaining it's the old-timers who get the free passes.
which just goes to show, the grass is greener on the other side of the fence...

But I kinda do see a perchanse to lean heavily on past aggressors...
I understand why, but it can give the impression of Mod Oppression.

*shrugs*

You post a lot, JuNii. How many times have you been warned? :) I would venture a guess that this number would be approaching zero, if not ACTUALLY zero.

What qualities, then, would posters who rack up numerous warnings have in common, that separate this group from posters who have few to none?

Yeah...the great Ruler of the Multiverse is interceding in here.

Colodia was given a slap on the wrist. Given his posted warning history above, Katganistan would have been fully justified in forumbanning him from the start. Instead, he chose to be surly, obnoxious, and rude enough to Katganistan that she recused herself from the ruling and asking anyone free (me) to step in.True. It seems the mods can actually be quite lenient, letting off massive spamming with just a friendly warning to all involved.
I'm not sure what "normally behave themselves" means in this context. Does it mean that Colodia, because he joined the game months or years ahead of other people, should be given free rein to spam and flame to his heart's content without repercussion, while nations that started yesterday should be deleted because they hadn't yet located the One-Stop Rules Shop? Old-timers DO get something of a pass from most of us, most of the time, because we assume that they will quickly snap to their senses. In this case, that didn't happen. You seem to be taking this to extremes. Saying that newbies seem to get off easier than old-timers isn't equivalent to saying newbies should be punished while old-timers shouldn't. If anything, I agree with the mod stance of lenience on new players while greater sternness with old-timers (not even... in my opinion players like Tink should have been banned long before her 10,000th post, but that's just me).

Deserve logic? You get that. Read up, and read Kat's careful and concise explanations. Compassion? No sir, people don't deserve that, they have to earn it. In several threads, Colodia has treated his minor slap on the wrist as if he were being send to the dungeons for life. Given the choice of following the appeal protocol, he decided to just go straight to [violet] and bypass all the middlemen. Yeah, that's an approach guaranteed to win. Yes, that's sort of like talking to the head of school when a teacher claims you cheated on the math test. Or calling the President when your local mayor dismisses you from office on his cabinet.

I don't understand why there's a sense of entitlement about age-based rulebreaking. There are rules, you follow them. More experienced players should follow them better than anyone else. To expect otherwise strikes me as lunacy.As I've said, I agree with you. (Although this is primarily because I'm still considered a new player by almost everyone who came before me. ;))

What qualities, then, would posters who rack up numerous warnings have in common, that separate this group from posters who have few to none?
They're all people with practically no life who spend lots of time on the computer? They all have nations on NS? They all post on the forums? You're forgetting that there is life outside of NS here, m'lady. *Looks out of window at beautiful scenery outside :p*

But I kinda do see a perchanse to lean heavily on past aggressors...I don't see that as a problem.

If you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar repeatedly, you're going to earn more scrutiny from your parents than if you never took a cookie without asking. If you lie to your parents repeatedly, they're not going to trust you. If you get warned for flaming repeatedly, you will have a short leash with the Mods. If you have no infractions (or at the very least, very, very few over a long period of time), you don't get the gort for one violation.

That's just the way the real world works. I don't see a difference in NS.

Why all the Mod bashing?!! They do a fantastic (and hard) job on here as well as have real lives. Lets stop now and let them get on with their jobs, good people.

*shrugs*

You post a lot, JuNii. How many times have you been warned? :) I would venture a guess that this number would be approaching zero, if not ACTUALLY zero.

What qualities, then, would posters who rack up numerous warnings have in common, that separate this group from posters who have few to none?well, err... thanks I try to police myself...

I don't see that as a problem.

If you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar repeatedly, you're going to earn more scrutiny from your parents than if you never took a cookie without asking. If you lie to your parents repeatedly, they're not going to trust you. If you get warned for flaming repeatedly, you will have a short leash with the Mods. If you have no infractions (or at the very least, very, very few over a long period of time), you don't get the gort for one violation.

That's just the way the real world works. I don't see a difference in NS.
I'm not say it is a problem, or that it's wong. I'm just saying it gives the "perception" of what people are calling favoratism. that's all.

And I too think the mods are doing a great job, it's thankless job and one that makes alot of bad feeling, but one that needs to be done. For which I try and make it easier by not causing trouble.

and with that, I'll end with a...


Thanks Mods for your work. :)

Jesus Christ, Fris, this is absolutely ridiculous. I'm not holding my tongue any longer.

I don't know Colodia from Adam, but you forumbanned a nation, for a week, because he publicly disagreed with a mod ruling and escalated it to an admin? So, now, instead of just pretending to be fair and consistent, you're freely making up the bloody rules as you go? That's great.

Please don't give me any of that bunk about how mods are unpaid and we should kiss your feet because you all volunteer your precious, sacred time to police this online universe. No one forced you to become a mod. Sometimes it seems you are on a powertrip just trying to shimmy your ass up to game mod so you can throw more of your weight around, a feat that you recently accomplished, Fris. My belated congrats, by the way.

I say this as a player that reads the forum every day. For me, and many others, the forums are 9/10's of this game. Its what makes NS fun for us. Being forumbanned for a week, in short, sucks. I have never, to my knowledge, had any hard warnings in NS, but I feel for those who are banned for no good reason.

Colodia was given a slap on the wrist. Given his posted warning history above, Katganistan would have been fully justified in forumbanning him from the start. Instead, he chose to be surly, obnoxious, and rude enough to Katganistan that she recused herself from the ruling and asking anyone free (me) to step in. While I know how much you love swingin' that hammer of MOD, WTF did Colodia due to justify you increasing his warning to a full forumban? Because you felt Kat wasn't hard enough on him? So we're retroactively changing sentence now? If so, you might want to add that to your beloved One Stop Rules Shop stickie.

He wasn't flaming, trolling, flamebaiting, or trollbaiting in his thread arguing his sentence. You got tired of him. So you locked his perfectly legit thread about his sentence. Then, when he came back, you forumbanned him. That's a brilliant abuse of power, Fris. If you ever get tired of NS, you have a bright future with the LAPD.

Deserve logic? You get that. Read up, and read Kat's careful and concise explanations. Compassion? No sir, people don't deserve that, they have to earn it. In several threads, Colodia has treated his minor slap on the wrist as if he were being send to the dungeons for life. Given the choice of following the appeal protocol, he decided to just go straight to [violet] and bypass all the middlemen. Yeah, that's an approach guaranteed to win. You know what? Its also an approach he has the right to take. Once again, unless the rules have changed recently and your stickie needs an update, players have the right to appeal mod decisions to admin. Yeah, I admit, he doesn't have much chance of a reversal, but an appeal does not justify you hitting him with a forumban. Just because he dared question the infallable judgement of one of your fellow mods doesn't mean you get to retroactively change his punishment.

I've never spoken out against mods before, and, frankly, it feels good. I pity those sycophantic vultures on the forums who try to gain mod favour by always posting about how great and wonderful all the mods are and orally polishing their rears every time they had down a decision. Enough ass licking. This punishment is wrong, Fris - and you know it.

Jesus Christ, Fris, this is absolutely ridiculous. I'm not holding my tongue any longer.

I don't know Colodia from Adam, but you forumbanned a nation, for a week, because he publicly disagreed with a mod ruling and escalated it to an admin? So, now, instead of just pretending to be fair and consistent, you're freely making up the bloody rules as you go? That's great.

Please don't give me any of that bunk about how mods are unpaid and we should kiss your feet because you all volunteer your precious, sacred time to police this online universe. No one forced you to become a mod. Sometimes it seems you are on a powertrip just trying to shimmy your ass up to game mod so you can throw more of your weight around, a feat that you recently accomplished, Fris. My belated congrats, by the way.

I say this as a player that reads the forum every day. For me, and many others, the forums are 9/10's of this game. Its what makes NS fun for us. Being forumbanned for a week, in short, sucks. I have never, to my knowledge, had any hard warnings in NS, but I feel for those who are banned for no good reason.
On one hand, it was rather clear that the thread was spam and the individuals undeniably deserved warnings.

But Katganistan handled the situation poorly. It is outright hilarious for a moderator to post TEN REPLIES to a spam thread, handing out warnings. It was totally unnecessary. And he had a legitimate point: She spammed just as much as anyone else. In one case, she quoted NAS rebels twice (because he posted twice), when she could've just as easily reduced it to one post.

However, she also could've handled it a lot worse. She only warned the people which said, "I win," in the thread. Even though they posted in the thread as well, she did not warn HC Eredivisie, Jenrak, The Elder Malaclypse, or FairyTInkArisen. So, this claim that she "warned everyone," is false. FairyTInkArisen, especially, was lucky to get off because she's been warned for spamming before, even banned, and she also posted in the thread numerous times, including posting "uh-oh..." twice.

Furthermore, Collodia was rather belligerent. First, he posts, complaining about a decision. When Katganistan tried to explain and discuss it, he said:
Debates go in the general forum. Move this thread if your going to debate in my thread. Otherwise you have the ability to lock this thread when the tide is not in your favor. Which really isn't right of you.
That's a stupid thing to say. He made his point, she explained it. He didn't want to discuss the decision. He wanted to attack the mods over it (bringing up all of his other warnings too, in one big, gigantic bitchfest).

I agree the mods are somewhat elitist, do sometimes get away with flaming (which only exacerbates the situation such as in this case), and lock threads when it's in their favor... But Collodia was acting like a child. I say this also because one of his warnings was for hijacking A THREAD OF MINE, which went from discussing U.S. vote fraud to Lindsay Lohan's boobs. The mods are no saints and their job is fucking easy, but he deserved the one-week forum ban.

BTW, one more thing... Potinum, good job. With enough dedicated brown-nosing, you too may one day become moderator. Just please, keep up the comments like these:
Why all the Mod bashing?!! They do a fantastic (and hard) job on here as well as have real lives. Lets stop now and let them get on with their jobs, good people.Now let's all have a moment of silence, for the brave and noble mods who lost their lives during the timewarp of 2005.

.........

Anyone who has a concern with any mod ruling should email admin; not publicly flame/flamebait/troll them, lest not you get in touble for said offences.

Just a friendly reminder for all to REMAIN CIVIL!

But Katganistan handled the situation poorly. It is outright hilarious for a moderator to post TEN REPLIES to a spam thread, handing out warnings. It was totally unnecessary. And he had a legitimate point: She spammed just as much as anyone else. In one case, she quoted NAS rebels twice (because he posted twice), when she could've just as easily reduced it to one post. That doesn't bother me. Kat explained she broke the warnings up for clarity. If she wants to type ten posts, she can have fun. I don't care how the warnings are handed out as long as they're clear, and it looks like Kat was going for clarity.
However, she also could've handled it a lot worse. She only warned the people which said, "I win," in the thread. Even though they posted in the thread as well, she did not warn HC Eredivisie, Jenrak, The Elder Malaclypse, or FairyTInkArisen. So, this claim that she "warned everyone," is false. FairyTInkArisen, especially, was lucky to get off because she's been warned for spamming before, even banned, and she also posted in the thread numerous times, including posting "uh-oh..." twice.

Furthermore, Collodia was rather belligerent. First, he posts, complaining about a decision. When Katganistan tried to explain and discuss it, he said:

That's a stupid thing to say. He made his point, she explained it. He didn't want to discuss the decision. He wanted to attack the mods over it (bringing up all of his other warnings too, in one big, gigantic bitchfest). Maybe so, but "stupid" isn't against the rules or we'd have a lot less players. Flaming, trolling, flamebaiting, trollbaiting, spamming, linking to banned sites, UN multies, etc are against the rules. Colodia didn't do any of that in his bitching thread. Please note, I'm not saying he didn't deserve the warning. He did. He obviously spammed, which is against the written rules. What I have a problem with is his complimentary sentence upgrade courtesy of Fris, when Colodia got on Fris's nerves, but didn't break any rules. That's bullshit.

I agree the mods are somewhat elitist, do sometimes get away with flaming (which only exacerbates the situation such as in this case), and lock threads when it's in their favor... But Collodia was acting like a child. I say this also because one of his warnings was for hijacking A THREAD OF MINE, which went from discussing U.S. vote fraud to Lindsay Lohan's boobs. The mods are no saints and their job is fucking easy, but he deserved the one-week forum ban.Yeah, maybe he DID deserve the forumban, but that's not what Kat handed down. She handed down a warning and nothing extra was found or done that justified the extended sentence, except pissing off Fris.
BTW, one more thing... Potinum, good job. With enough dedicated brown-nosing, you too may one day become moderator. Or maybe not. There seems to be a long line of brown nosers in front of him.

On one hand, it was rather clear that the thread was spam and the individuals undeniably deserved warnings.

But Katganistan handled the situation poorly. It is outright hilarious for a moderator to post TEN REPLIES to a spam thread, handing out warnings. It was totally unnecessary. And he had a legitimate point: She spammed just as much as anyone else. In one case, she quoted NAS rebels twice (because he posted twice), when she could've just as easily reduced it to one post.
Did you even read Katganistans' explanation for posting multiples times? She did so to make sure each person warned would see it, so that it would cut down on the 'What did I do?' questions.

The mods are no saints and their job is fucking easy, but he deserved the one-week forum ban.

I would love to know exactly how you can say that a moderators job is easy. :rolleyes:

BTW, one more thing... Potinum, good job. With enough dedicated brown-nosing, you too may one day become moderator. Just please, keep up the comments like these:
Now let's all have a moment of silence, for the brave and noble mods who lost their lives during the timewarp of 2005.

.........

Thats enough President Shrub. You aren't helping the situation with these statements.

~The Modified Freedom Forces of Euroslavia
Nationstates Forum Moderator~

That doesn't bother me. Kat explained she broke the warnings up for clarity. If she wants to type ten posts, she can have fun. I don't care how the warnings are handed out as long as they're clear, and it looks like Kat was going for clarity.
Maybe so, but "stupid" isn't against the rules or we'd have a lot less players. Flaming, trolling, flamebaiting, trollbaiting, spamming, linking to banned sites, UN multies, etc are against the rules. Colodia didn't do any of that in his bitching thread. Please note, I'm not saying he didn't deserve the warning. He did. He obviously spammed, which is against the written rules. What I have a problem with is his complimentary sentence upgrade courtesy of Fris, when Colodia got on Fris's nerves, but didn't break any rules. That's bullshit.

Yeah, maybe he DID deserve the forumban, but that's not what Kat handed down. She handed down a warning and nothing extra was found or done that justified the extended sentence, except pissing off Fris.
Or maybe not. There seems to be a long line of brown nosers in front of him.

Basically I have to agree, although you said it things a little more belligerent than I did. Although as amusing as your last comment was, remember to try and remain civil. And good grief, now I have to listen to Colodia the rest of the week. ;)

Oh Hay Euro you couldnt pick a better colour than orange? I mean it really is giving me a headache, or wait is that you not reading all replies before replying yourself. hmm... I wonder who that vioce is agreeig with me??? Hmm.. so familar....

Dear Moderators ( :mp5: ) is it an insult to use some expressions such as chink, ****** and others that in you opinion may cause offense to some minorities, or using chinese scum or bastard?

Let me tell you something i used to use them but then i got banned and you know i asked why never got a clear answer, all i knew was there are some moderators that ban people for their ideas.

For example i once read a thread by some Chewbaccula defending christianism, and telling that all men are made by god's, and for defending his ideas some guy called heavy arms, i think, banned him, closed his threats and all that stuff, NOW TELL IS IT FAIR TO TELL YOU IDEAS, BUT WHEN SOME MODERATOR DOESN'T LIKE THEM HE CLOSES THE THREAD OR BANS YOU OUT OF HIS OWN GOOD (or shall i say ill) WILL??

I don't know Colodia from Adam, but you forumbanned a nation, for a week, because he publicly disagreed with a mod ruling and escalated it to an admin?When one doesn't have all the information on a situation, one should hold one's tongue.

Please don't give me any of that bunk about how mods are unpaid and we should kiss your feet because you all volunteer your precious, sacred time to police this online universe.Nobody mentioned that save other players.

No one forced you to become a mod.No, we usually do it to improve the site. And so charming players such as yourself can have an enjoyable experience. You're welcome.

Sometimes it seems you are on a powertrip just trying to shimmy your ass up to game mod so you can throw more of your weight around, a feat that you recently accomplished, Fris. My belated congrats, by the way.Completely uncalled for. You will stick to a certain level of respect.

While I know how much you love swingin' that hammer of MOD, WTF did Colodia due to justify you increasing his warning to a full forumban? Because you felt Kat wasn't hard enough on him? So we're retroactively changing sentence now? If so, you might want to add that to your beloved One Stop Rules Shop stickie.Completely uncalled for. Flamebaiting moderators is damnably stupid.

Then, when he came back, you forumbanned him. That's a brilliant abuse of power, Fris. If you ever get tired of NS, you have a bright future with the LAPD.Reopening locked threads is against forum rules, and has been since we first installed Moderators.

And, again, quit flamebaiting moderators.

Just because he dared question the infallable judgement of one of your fellow mods doesn't mean you get to retroactively change his punishment.There is more to the situation than you know.

I've never spoken out against mods before, and, frankly, it feels good.Congratulations. Maybe you and Sheol can compare war stories some day.

I pity those sycophantic vultures on the forums who try to gain mod favour by always posting about how great and wonderful all the mods are and orally polishing their rears every time they had down a decision. Enough ass licking.That's quite enough of that.

You now have a "hard" warning, Saint Uriel. One week forumban for two counts of flamebaiting a moderator and for flaming the player base.

- The Most Glorious Hack
NationStates Game Moderator

You know, it occurs to me that people are having VERY selective memories on this matter, or else they really haven't followed the whole thing. Allow me to refresh everyone's memory. The reason that Colodia got forum banned was his inability to follow the rules (the pertinent ones referenced here http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9363861&postcount=9) and be civil. He spammed, he posted past lock (also an offense) and was intentionally being as rude as possible to get a rise out of us for a warning -- this after a history of official warnings (which he himself posted here -- http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9363849&postcount=7) and a multitude of unofficial ones.

He admitted he knew he was breaking the rules here http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9363455&postcount=1 and here http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9363558&postcount=7 adding his incorrect assertion that no group had EVER been punished for misbehavior in a thread before, which is incorrect. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9363771&postcount=4

So, Colodia apparently agrees he broke the rules -- he had a problem with being held to them. His response to a slap on the wrist was to make the ridiculous claim that somehow, I was being unfair for punishing everyone involved and this was a precedent. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9363788&postcount=5

As for your points, President Shrub, I explained why each person got their own warning here: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9363886&postcount=12 I an aware that I quoted NAS twice. He posted five or six times, so I quoted two posts -- one for the spam game, and one for admitted postwhoring.

And yes, thank you for recognizing that I did not warn everyone, as has been alleged, just those engaged in a game they knew they should not be playing. I also thank you for recognizing that Colodia was belligerent in your post.

However, I don't think your comments to Potinum were warranted.

As to the charge that Frisbeetaria has erred or been unfair by changing sentence, let me be crystal clear here. Frisbeetaria did not change the sentence -- Colodia did. When he started to flamebait by telling me that if I was turning HIS THREAD into a debate it should got into General, I stopped and asked for a second opinion. I was concerned that there would be a perception that I was unfairly banning Colodia for being nasty, and I asked Frisbeetaria to look things over in case he did not concur with my feeling that Colodia should be given a temporary forumban. As it happens, Frisbeetaria concurred. I want to impress on everyone that I did not get overruled, but that it was Colodia's continued belligerence --adding onto what he'd already been warned for -- which got him the ban. Even after being banned, he allegedly tried to flame, according to his acquaintance/rival Isrealites here: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9364015&postcount=20 along with my response.

Believe me, if [violet] or the senior mods disagree with the punishment, we will be told, and the forumban may well be lifted.

And, as long as I must make an UBERPOST, Yes, Kuehenberg. Racial slurs are not allowed. Flaming is not allowed. If you break the rules, and they are spelled out for you in the One Stop Rules Shop sticky here (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=410573), your threads can be closed, and if you continue to break rules, you can be forumbanned or deleted. That doesn't mean you can't say, "I am a racialist, and I think that other people are not equal to my ethnic background." We don't censor ideas we don't agree with; we do expect civility.

If the only way people feel they can enjoy these forums is to spam, flame, and be generally anti-social, then frankly, they really are not going to be happy here. There are certainly sites enough where one can call others vile names to their hearts content and act as they like -- and we're not keeping anyone from frequenting them.

In an attempt to ever so slightly clear things up, the debate part was a bad sarcastic pun. To be honest, if it was an insult, it was not at you. As I have already stated the manner in which the forum ban was declared was far more rude than anything Colodia said, at least nastiest. Also calling me Colodia's friend is a tad bit of an over statment, we are more minour enemies(look at both our sigs. e.g.). Although I have to admit Fris.'s frequent use of "the mod squad" makes me laugh everytime, which was also used in that piece tripe ban anouncement.


I need this sentence here, mmkay?
For Pete's sake, grow up and take your punishment...You oughta be forumbanned... - Frisbeeteria

It seems Fris. got his wish.... hmm...

"The Lion's Den"
------------------------

There were once two men that entered a lion's cave. When the lion saw them, he said, "I am going to eat you, bitches!"

The first man said, "Look, I know this is your cave, but I have my freedom of speech. And frankly, you were just rude to me. I didn't do anything to you. So, you have no right to be so nasty to me, going on a power-trip like that."

The second man said, "I'm sorry for what my friend said. I understand that you are a busy lion, who works very hard and does a fantastic job at keeping our ecosystem stable. Please, forgive us, and we won't bother you again."

The lion only ate one of them. Now, guess which one it was.

You now have a "hard" warning, Saint Uriel. One week forumban for two counts of flamebaiting a moderator and for flaming the player base.

- The Most Glorious Hack
NationStates Game Moderator
I'm sorry, but this ruling is wrong. And in my opinion and gross abuse of your power. St Uriel may have been gruff and disrespectful, but he has a point. There needs to be a change in the way some Mods are acting before the rupatation of the Mods (who are mostly doing a damned fine job) is sullied.

I'm sorry, but this ruling is wrong. And in my opinion and gross abuse of your power. St Uriel may have been gruff and disrespectful, but he has a point. You do appear to be on a power trip and one that needs to end before the reputation of the Moderators (who are mostly doing a damned fine job).
well to put it in the way one of my friends said, *"happy-go-blocky" and "happy-go-locky." No one quite deserved St. Uriels ban, it again was rather rude.

*These quotes were not said by the same people

*spreads hands* Look, fellows, the armchair quarterbacking really does not seem to be working here, especially when combined with belligerence. Waiting until you've cooled off before posting in anger would undoubtedly be the better choice.

It is also not recommend to come onto IRC and flame the mods in several channels when you do not get your way.

[21:37] <St_Uriel> Ahhhh, all the little dictators
[21:38] <St_Uriel> Fris, my over the hill balding friend - go fuck yourself

Comments and information in #themodcave are considered in the same light as posts on the forums or getting help requests.

"The Lion's Den"
------------------------

There were once two men that entered a lion's cave. When the lion saw them, he said, "I am going to eat you, bitches!"

The first man said, "Look, I know this is your cave, but I have my freedom of speech. And frankly, you were just rude to me. I didn't do anything to you. So, you have no right to be so nasty to me, going on a power-trip like that."

The second man said, "I'm sorry for what my friend said. I understand that you are a busy lion, who works very hard and does a fantastic job at keeping our ecosystem stable. Please, forgive us, and we won't bother you again."

The lion only ate one of them. Now, guess which one it was.ummm... the slower one?

anyway... the patience you mods are showing is... Impressive at least.

I'm sorry, but this ruling is wrong. And in my opinion and gross abuse of your power. St Uriel may have been gruff and disrespectful, but he has a point. There needs to be a change in the way some Mods are acting before the rupatation of the Mods (who are mostly doing a damned fine job) is sullied.St Uriel was more than disrespectful, he was flaming and flamebaiting, as was Colodia.

The forumban of Colodia and the deletion of Saint Uriel stand.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

As a note to people who don't like a decision, this is not an appropriate way of responding:

That's nice, Hack, forumbanning me for speaking out against a mod. A nation that has no official warnings whatsoever gets a one week forumban for "flame baiting" a mod? Well, here's my certain level of respect - Go fuck yourself, you ego tripping piece of shit. If you cared at all about the game, you might want to question why someone who has obeyed all the rules and behaved perfectly until now would go off on the mods. Perhaps its because I'm sick of seeing them abuse their power. It should be a fucking wake up call that something is SERIOUSLY wrong with the way you all do things. But, forget all that, asshole. NS was fun while it lasted.

As someone who has been reading this for the past 2 days i would like to make an observation.


The Mods are right, he was breaking the rules. He deserved was was coming to him. Disrespecting the moderaton isn't a good thing and people should learn to realize this. Telling a mod to "fuck off" and calling them "dictators" is just immature, rude, and stupid.

For those arguing with the Mods:
Please grow up and realize that what you are doing could get you into major trouble. Many good RPers have been lost because of their arrogance and namecalling and it just needs to stop.


Thank you for your time.
Brian T. Armbruster

(p.s. that is my real name)

Although this thread seems to have died, it is always good to make sure it cant be reserected. Whats done with is done with, the continuation of this would only result in someone's toes getting stepped. Each side over stepped their boundaries a little. Both sides need to "get over it." Also it should be dropped on irc too, as that seems to have led to more issues than the actual thread. If I managed to offend someone, I apologize. I will leave it at, since I do not grovel.

It is my contention that fascism and\or oligarchy automatically create elitism, even in macropolitical environments, such as forums.

I have used the internet for quite some time, and I have seen the same general trend among moderators and admins of any forum, which is that there are generally five groups of people:
The faithful leaders - The moderators and admins devoted to their jobs and sincere about their statements.
The unfaithful leaders - The moderators and admins who publicly act and speak the same as the other moderators, but privately resent their coworkers' behavior. However, they cannot share their beliefs, because it would end up in them getting fired, which is something they don't want.
The indifferent - The vast majority of people, who don't know or care about the area's politics.
The suck-Ups - People who repeatedly compliment the moderators and admins, whether sincere or not, and often become moderators themselves.
The dissidents - Those who charge the admins and moderators with "elitism," sometimes making legitimate points, other times just trying trying to rationalize their own mistakes. The same thing sometimes happens when a student fails a test, and the student comes up to the teacher with one completely arbitrary question that they got wrong, debate about it, then storm out claiming "the teacher didn't like me."

In all of the forums and games I have ever played, this has been the case. And I'd like to one day do an experiment on it to prove it.

For example, even if a moderators' job is easy, it is in my experience that many moderators will still claim that it is difficult, with their brown-nosing crownies agreeing. Anyone who points to the contrary is chastised and ostracized. In fact, I'd even considered doing a mathematical model of the amount of time it takes to be a moderator here, but then I realized--what's the point? Gravedigging is stupid, unless you actually have a great deal of support from others behind you.

So, to the moderators and everyone else: Simply put, such elitism is natural. But fighting it is almost always pointless, because if you look closely enough, you'll see the same trend in virtually every forum and game that exists. If you try to "rebel," against "the powers that be," every time you felt you've been done wrong, then you'll spend much of your life getting angry over being booted, ejected, banned, and deleted from forums and games you'd normally enjoy. That's why I used the metaphor, "Running into the lion's den and pleading to the lion won't result in anything but a full meal for the lion."

This is MAX BARRY'S forum, not ours. It's a privilege for us to use it. If the moderators make "lawyering," against the rules, refuse to discuss certain matters, lock threads after they've made their point, or mark people for deletion, then that's their right. To some extent, that's how it's done in all forums and this is not a democracy.

While that's a harsh and blunt way of putting it, it is the brutally honest truth.

this is not a democracy.

This is not news -- we've stated clearly enough, and often enough, that it is not.

This is not news -- we've stated clearly enough, and often enough, that it is not.
Although you may have explained that before, or even in the FAQs, I haven't got the FAQs memorized and I've never seen anyone explain it clearly before. Furthermore, you have to realize that they're far more likely to listen to a non-moderator when someone explains that.

Yale's study on persuasion (http://changingminds.org/explanations/theories/yale_attitude_change.htm)

The source of the message is far more important than the actual message itself. A moderator saying, "This is not a democracy," just makes them think you're being belligerent, which, sometimes the moderators are.

It's free speech, so I can post whatever I like here, right?

Ahahahaha! Hahaha! Free speech! No, it's not. I run this web site, see, so you have to play by my rules. It's like my own Father Knows Best state.

I'd say we're pretty up front about it.

Might I just add my own suggestion to anyone and everyone reading this thread? Given that I dont know the situation in particular, I wont comment directly onto it, but I am rather disappointed in the fact how so many people are getting this aggressive with the Moderators, forum or game.

Please always remember that the Moderators of NationStates are completely voluntary, and that they often recieve little thanks for the hard work they do - often complimented with a flame, offensive comment, or really just a hard time here or there. Given that both Colodia and the others have recieved their due punishments, I suggest that now is the time to hold our tongues. If you do still believe that the Moderators have made an error in judgement, perhaps a better solution other than to flame them (since this will naturally incurr a punishment on your own behalf), but to use the already properly created channels for this type of scenario. And so you have two proper options to follow, rather than doing something only to aggrevate the situation further and earn your own warnings / forumbans / etc.


Hold your tongue and move on. Since it has been proven that this is not a democratic type of system, its hardly worth challenging them directly on in such a way that it will either offend / annoy them further. Afterall, sometimes "bad" things happen and theres no point worsening the situation.

If you feel that the issue is particularly bad, I suggest that you use the channels created so that you may appeal a moderators desision the right way. You wont recieve any punishment for appealing a moderator's desision. Contact one of the administrators at the following email in this case: admin@nationstates.net


Before anyone considers posting to this thread again, I suggest they take my advice into account. Afterall, although it technically *is* your choice on what to do and say, it will be the poor Moderators with the headache at the end of the day. Perhaps we should be thanking them rather than abusing them like this thread seems to be about. ;)

--- AU's Player.

Although this thread seems to have died, it is always good to make sure it cant be reserected. Why don't we get it stickied instead of constantly bumping it with more pointless argument to add? [/sarcasm]

Seriously, though, I think this should be locked. The arguing's gone on long enough.

Why don't we get it stickied instead of constantly bumping it with more pointless argument to add? [/sarcasm]

Seriously, though, I think this should be locked. The arguing's gone on long enough.
The first was not needed, and you know it. Although I do agree it should locked and put to rest.

P.s.Czards I didnt not appreciate that. :rolleyes: