NationStates Jolt Archive

Hello. Today two of my fellow nations-part of my region- were deleted. One-rovotia-was deleted for absolutely no reason. He was warned about a week ago about having multiple UN nations (one was his brother) but he has not broken any rules or done anything else since then. The other one-Norvetia- was in charge of an invasion of 'Roman Empire'. He has never broken any rule-never done anything near agains the rules and the Moderators deleted him, took off the password and unbanned all members. Invasion is part of the game! We did not ban all members of the region and eject all, in fact we left all natives in the region-we only kicked out the defenders that were holed up in the region. We had been planning to liberate the region, greet the natives as our friends and new fellow nations in the region-but the moderators came in, deleted the leader, and made our liberation a failure. I fear that the moderators wrath will spread to me next and I will be deleted for absolutely no reason. Please bring their nations back and let us have 'Roman Empire' as we are supposed to. We abided by the rules and what happend? We get deleted and everything taken away. This is unethical and unfair.

The only nations in the region at the time of Norvetia's deletion were three other invaders and a single, non-UN puppet. Everyone else (nine other nations) was ejected, left on the banlist, and the password undistributed. The deletion was totally justified. Norvetia, intentenionally or otherwise, is a griefer.

Rovotia was deleted for other reasons, and you don't have a "need to know". If he doesn't understand the reasons (though he ought to), we'll be happy to respond to a Getting Help request.

Hmmm well its starting to make a bit more sence now. Norvetia was new to this whole invasion thing and mustve though your supposed to kick everyone (which is a big no-no- and I told him not to) *sigh* it was an honest mistake-is there any way that he can have his nation back?

My professional non-modly oppinion is no... nations deleted for rulebreaking remain deleted... ignorance of the rules (or misunderstandings thereof) are no excuse to break them

from what i've seen moddies don't do that...but he can make a new nation and put that in the UN to do invasions, the legal way of course ;)

The original plan was to let the region die out (everyone has to leave for this to work) because the original founder was dead. I would then refound the region as the new founder to provide maximum security to the rejoin while leaving it unpassworded so anyone could come to the regoin. Once we refounded the region-then we would invite all the natives back into the region and everyone would live hapily ever after. Well after I discovered that its against the rules to kick everyone out (even though it was to benifit the region), I called it off-but norvetia went ahead and went into the region for the invasion. I went along- and told him what to do and to kick out the previous invaders (leave the natives and our UN Nations)... must have not gotten it. I accept his deletion, but is there any way that we still move to 'Roman Empire' and I can become the founder? We already have a website here (http://romanempire.f2g.net) and a forum here (http://ref.us.tt). All titles say 'Roman Empire'. I mean if you let me do it- and then i did anything wrong-you could just delete my nation-so what harm can it cause? I just want to make Roman Empire a cool region and give the natives (and the nations in my current region) a better home!

Well, you probably already knows this, but..
You had to ask the natives to leave on their own, then when the region is empty, let it die and refound. Mods only appoint founders in very rare cases, and I got a feeling they won't consider this a rare case..

My professional non-modly oppinion is no... nations deleted for rulebreaking remain deleted... ignorance of the rules (or misunderstandings thereof) are no excuse to break them


if someone misunderstands the rules it is not their fault.

Refoundings must be done either via mutual consent or complete apathy (that is, all nations must naturally expire). Your intentions are irrelevant to the game rules, and we will not assist you with a refounding. You'll have to do it the old-fashioned way, with politics and persuasion. Somehow I don't think that invading the region will help you with your case.

Norvetia's player is free to make a new nation and may have a single nation in the UN. Norvetia is a rulebreaker and will not be restored.

if someone misunderstands the rules it is not their fault.
Sorry, you're wrong. Whether you understand the rules or not, you are bound by them as if you do understand them. Ignorance is no excuse.

so people can just go break the rules and later say it was all just a big misunderstanding :p

"No really, I didn't mean to have 100 UN nations, it was all just a misunderstanding, honest!"

*sigh* yeah i dont think that invasion is going to help my persuasion. It wasnt supposed to happen that way-it was supposed to be a liberation! (guess i should be telling the natives that) Anyway, one question. If the natives dont come back and all that comes back is the previous invaders (already have started coming back) Can we still invade the region again and kick all them out? They arent natives therefore its not against the rules. But that would mean we're kicking all members out of the region-but they're not natives- their invaders that have done nothing benifitial for the region. Can we do this or not?

You may not use an illegal griefing to clear the region, and then move in to eject the returning defenders. We'd simply consider that a continuation of the original, illegal invasion. You'd most likely end up deleted over that.

actually, fris, this is an interesting question...

would this mean they're not allowed to kick out non-natives?
that sounds like quite the policy change...

Doesnt that go against everything youve said?

The natives are free to return- in fact we encourage it. But can we not come and try to make things right this time and save the region from the previous invaders (call them defenders if you must... but I see no reason to give them this name as their actions are of invaders). We would not kick out natives-only the invaders (defenders). We cannot do this? We cannot kick out only non-natives and leave only natives and ourselves? Isn't that what invasion? Yet you say "no". I'm sorry I mean no disrespect, I'm just confused.

What I was saying is that you can't go in, password the place, kick the invaders/defenders/whatever and then go ahead with your refounding. You'd be taking advantage of an illegal griefing to do that.

If you want to do an open invasion and win by force of numbers, that's legal. I'd be really wary of ANY passwords or kicks without ample evidence to back up your claims of non-nativity. You didn't seem to have a very good handle on who the natives were before, judging by your initial post ("in fact we left all natives in the region"). I'll be looking at any invasion of "Roman Empire" by "The Roman Empire" with a very skeptical eye.

Well, the natives seem to be active, so they will hopefully return before the major update starts.

(telegrammed)

Hmmm well thank you for all you help- I really appreciate it- helps me understand why things have occurred and what to do next. I will consider your words and decide what to do next (probly nothing)

You didn't seem to have a very good handle on who the natives were before, judging by your initial post ("in fact we left all natives in the region"). Its not that we didnt know who was who, its that Norvetia didn't understand the orders for the invasion, and ROE. To my knowledge the natives had been left in the region-as that's what i instructed, it was not until after you said they had been ejected that I realized what really happened.

Heres the list of who's who in the region....

Natives
Stone Walls
Roags
Archonas

Invaders
Aylandlandfive
MOOSETORIA
The Never Dieing Power
Grigia

Non-natives, just recent arrivals
Former Greek Gods
Roman legionaires

My Region's invaders
Norvetia
Mowtown
Gogothians
Morvij - Kle

I've been keeping tabs on the region for quite some time. I tried contacting the natives in the past but never got any replies... I know who are the invaders and who are the natives by watching where they come from, the conversations, posts in the Civl Headquarters, information from the invaders website and posts on the invader's forums.

Thanks again for all your help Frisbeeteria, and I'm sorry for any inconveniences my region might have caused you-and I'll be sure to ask before doing anything that may come close to border-line in the future ;).

-The Caesarian State of Bourgania

someone I know had a few of their nations deleted. He did not know what he did wrong. It was probably justified, but they did not tell him and what's to stop him breaking rules he does not know again?

He could ask nicely about the reasons on this page: http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help

Former Greek Gods is a native. It was born native and has no other home. I recruited it's player myself.

I also feel that what you did to him was reprehensible. This was that kid's first nation ever. I talked him into creating a nation, and even helped him figure out how, and now look what happened his very first day in the game! Just when I thought all the @#%@$ was finally over with, too! This is not the lesson anyone wants a new player to learn about NationStates.

:headbang: Now you know why it's called "griefing."