NationStates Jolt Archive

I noticed this while looking through General.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9124162&postcount=27

While I have no real opinion on the warning and the forumban of the player. The question I have is what is considered "excessive" because I know I swear in threads sometimes and well, a lot of people do, including the mods. So all I'm really asking is what would be considered "excessive" for using "fuck" or "fucking" etc.. when used as a verb or adjective such as the poster who got warned and the other one that got forum banned?

Thanks!

I noticed this while looking through General.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9124162&postcount=27

While I have no real opinion on the warning and the forumban of the player. The question I have is what is considered "excessive" because I know I swear in threads sometimes and well, a lot of people do, including the mods. So all I'm really asking is what would be considered "excessive" for using "fuck" or "fucking" etc.. when used as a verb or adjective such as the poster who got warned and the other one that got forum banned?

Thanks!

I suppose in my non-mod opinion, using profanity all the time, every post, for a good long while is excessive.

One good profane rant isn't excessive, just don't keep it up.

(Remember, I am not a mod. This is speculation.)

Yeah, but that doesn't really make sense.. it's ok to do it once in a while but not all the time? Either it's against the rules or it's not. I mean you can't have it both ways!

Yeah, but that doesn't really make sense.. it's ok to do it once in a while but not all the time? Either it's against the rules or it's not. I mean you can't have it both ways!

Think of it this way: if all profanity was banned, no-one would attend the forums. If profanity was uncontrolled, then people would start to complain.

Yeah, but that doesn't really make sense.. it's ok to do it once in a while but not all the time? Either it's against the rules or it's not. I mean you can't have it both ways!

sure you can, why not?

sure you can, why not?

Hehe, well just a tad hypocritical I think. However this is not a democracy as pointed out many times by the mods. However If you read the guy's post, yeah he swears a lot, but what he says is intelligent. He just swears a lot. Oh well, his problem I guess, not mine. I just want to know what is "excessive" because I too swear in posts. I want to know when you've said "fuck" once to often enough to get a warning or forum ban.

Best advice is just to swear only when needed.

Am i the only person here who does not swear and has never sworn on a forum? I guess not

How about this, if you swear often enough to get yourself some complaints, then you've sworn way too much and better calm down. People tend to be pretty flexible when it comes to swearing, and i tend to have a pretty high tolerance until someone either swears for no reason or goes into a post filled with way more swear words than needed

Best advice is just to swear only when needed.

best advice i can give (and i've been officially warned once) is not to direct your cuss words at someone personally on the forum. i think it's ok to say fuck when you're describing something like, "I can't fucking believe..." or "what the fuck?" or "it was a shit of day..." etc etc etc :P just don't direct it at someone.

Yeah, but that doesn't really make sense.. it's ok to do it once in a while but not all the time? Either it's against the rules or it's not. I mean you can't have it both ways!Hehe, well just a tad hypocritical I think. However this is not a democracy as pointed out many times by the mods. However If you read the guy's post, yeah he swears a lot, but what he says is intelligent. He just swears a lot. Oh well, his problem I guess, not mine. I just want to know what is "excessive" because I too swear in posts. I want to know when you've said "fuck" once to often enough to get a warning or forum ban.Swearing isn't an "all or nothing" deal; we are not limited to the two options of "prohibit it completely" and "leave it uncontrolled". We Mods could, theoretically, say "you can swear only up to this much, but no more".

Of course, we don't want to take the time to count how many swear words someone uses because it's not a worthwhile use of Moderator time. I also do not believe that this issue has ever come up before outside the context of spam, flaming, flamebaiting, or trolling, so what I'm going to do is, so what I'm going to do is say "As long as you're not otherwise breaking the rules, you can swear this much...", do some vague hand-waving down at knee level, say "...but you can't swear this much", and then do some vague hand-waving up over my head. It's kinda like the difference between invading and region griefing: Max and [violet] want to allow regional invasiions, but don't want masses of nations being thrown out of their own region, so you can legally eject a small number of natives (relative to the size of the region), but if you eject a large number of natives (again relative to the size of the region). "Small number" and "large number" are relative to the size of the region and they're vague, to boot. We don't have a fixed percentage because we want to discourage people from deliberately toeing-the-line. But, at the same time, we don't prohibit all native ejections, but we don't leave native ejections totally uncontrolled.

Same deal here: we're not going to totally prohibit swearing, but if it gets out of control as its own separate problem, then we have to crack down on it. We are going to have a finite, non-zero tolerance for swearing, but we're not going to define any precise level-of-tolerance.

I'll clarify three other points, here:

First, neither poster was officially warned for swearing, per se. Both were warned for flaming and flamebaiting; swearing merely compounded the charges of flaming and flamebaiting.

Second, while I haven't warned "Leperous monkeyballs" for swearing, by itself, I have come to the conclusion that he is either unwilling or unable to control his own use of language on NationStates. Thus, as a result of his conduct, he is prohibited from swearing at all; I haven't warned him for swearing alone, yet, but I will do so in the future. This decision may be rescinded at some later point in time depending upon his future conduct and/or Admin review.

Third, "Leperous monkeyballs" did have a prior standing warning for trolling while "Novoga" had a clean record (until that incident). This is why "Leperous monkeyballs" was forumbanned and "Novoga" was not. Swearing, by itself, was not a factor in the decisions against either player.

best advice i can give (and i've been officially warned once) is not to direct your cuss words at someone personally on the forum. i think it's ok to say fuck when you're describing something like, "I can't fucking believe..." or "what the fuck?" or "it was a shit of day..." etc etc etc :P just don't direct it at someone.Good advice. Directed swearing is more likely to prompt an official warning from a Moderator for flaming or flamebait and/or to result in a harsher punishment being handed down for the official warning.

Nevertheless, as per the "Leperous Monkeyballs" case, above, excessive swearing (directed or otherwise) will draw Moderator attention.


--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

best advice i can give (and i've been officially warned once) is not to direct your cuss words at someone personally on the forum. i think it's ok to say fuck when you're describing something like, "I can't fucking believe..." or "what the fuck?" or "it was a shit of day..." etc etc etc :P just don't direct it at someone.Well yeah. Basically, you can swear, but not at somebody (i.e. "...when some f***ing asshole who had stupidly dropped his banana peel in the hospital hallway..." but not "You f***ing asshole!") Swearing itself is ok when you don't refer to a specific player or ethnic group. Swearing at a player is flaming. Swearing at a group is trolling.

Best advice is just to swear only when needed.

Well if we work on that basis, it's never "needed" ;)

Thus, as a result of his conduct, he is prohibited from swearing at all

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

So does this mean that after his forum ban he will be held to a higher standard than that of the mods or any other player? In other words, are you saying if and when he comes back, he will not be able to swear at all?

I mean you've already answered my question about "excessive" and I understand that part now, no problem. I know a mod or nothing would ever use excessive foul language too. Because that would sort of be the same. Nor have I ever seen a mod use excessive language, so I understand that. So thanks for clearing that up for me. But I'm just sort of curious if that is what you meant, that if he comes back after his forum ban, he can't swear at all?

Well yeah. Basically, you can swear, but not at somebody (i.e. "...when some f***ing asshole who had stupidly dropped his banana peel in the hospital hallway..." but not "You f***ing asshole!") Swearing itself is ok when you don't refer to a specific player or ethnic group. Swearing at a player is flaming. Swearing at a group is trolling.

No, I don't think that's what the mods are saying, because LM, never did that either. He just swore a lot. But it was never directed towards someone as a flame or anything like that. That's why I asked at all. If it was obvious flaming or trolling or flamebait and there was nothing to his posts other than saying the word "fuck" then I would of never even started this thread.

The only official warning I seen him get prior to this incident was for "trolling" but it was under mod review and they never did come back with an answer. So it was in limbo of sorts. Unless of course he was warned in other threads that I didn't notice which is of course possible as I'm sure I didn't read every post the dude ever made. I personally found his posts funny AND intelligent. To each their own I suppose.

So does this mean that after his forum ban he will be held to a higher standard than that of the mods or any other player? In other words, are you saying if and when he comes back, he will not be able to swear at all?

I mean you've already answered my question about "excessive" and I understand that part now, no problem. I know a mod or nothing would ever use excessive foul language too. Because that would sort of be the same. Nor have I ever seen a mod use excessive language, so I understand that. So thanks for clearing that up for me. But I'm just sort of curious if that is what you meant, that if he comes back after his forum ban, he can't swear at all?I am holding him to a higher standard, yes. Keep in mind, though, that this is due to his past conduct. Two other Moderators have deemed his swearing to be excessive; I just did a brief survey of some of the posts by "Leperous Monkeyballs" (about 40 or so posts) and I'm leaning in favor of the same conclusion.

I will admit that this is an unusual ruling for me to make, so it is more subject to later Admin or team review than most Moderation decisions. However, it is in response to an unusual problem that I have never seen, before. So, until or unless I am instructed by an Admin or advised by other Mods to overturn it, the decision will stand.

No, I don't think that's what the mods are saying, because LM, never did that either. He just swore a lot. But it was never directed towards someone as a flame or anything like that.Incorrect. In the incident you link to in the opening post of this topic, "Leperous Monkeyballs" was using directed swearing in the course of flamebaiting; that's what he got his warning and his forumban for. Perhaps I misunderstood this part of your post?

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

Incorrect. In the incident you link to in the opening post of this topic, "Leperous Monkeyballs" was using directed swearing in the course of flamebaiting; that's what he got his warning and his forumban for. Perhaps I misunderstood this part of your post?

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

No, I think I just meant that I never seen him for example call some other NS member "A fucking insert offensive name here" or anything like that. That's all I meant.

It's all good now. I get where you're coming from. Thanks for taking the time to clear it up for me Cog.

Xan

No, I think I just meant that I never seen him for example call some other NS member "A fucking insert offensive name here" or anything like that. That's all I meant. Ah, I see. Please do keep in mind, though, that swearing in the course of flamebaiting will draw Mod attention just as much as swearing in the course of flaming.

It's all good now. I get where you're coming from. Thanks for taking the time to clear it up for me Cog. You're welcome.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation