NationStates Jolt Archive

Rumor has it that a scenario similar to the one below is about to happen again, and I'm rather curious to see whether it's legal or not.

It seems C1ndy has an interesting way of recruiting for her region.

C1ndy and others of her region invaded the region Uberia, and posted the following up in the World Factbook:

Uberia

World Factbook Entry: This region is a colony of Ubersite, which is much better- I'd move there if I were you!

ATTENTION UBERIA! THE REVOLOUTION IS HERE!

ALL YOUR REGION ARE BELONG TO US!

MOVE TO UBERSITE TO JOIN THE MAGNIFICENT RAIDING ARMY!!!
A couple of nations were ejected and then removed from the banlist:
Regional Happenings

* 56 minutes ago: The Uber Nation of C1ndy departed this region for Ubersite
* 58 minutes ago: The Uber Nation of C1ndy updated the World Factbook entry.
* 60 minutes ago: The Uber Nation of C1ndy removed The Holy Republic of The Mostly Harmless from the regional ban list.
* 60 minutes ago: The Uber Nation of C1ndy removed The Crazed Cat Lady of Feuler from the regional ban list.
* 60 minutes ago: The Uber Nation of C1ndy removed The Trousers of Eurip from the regional ban list.
* 60 minutes ago: The Uber Nation of C1ndy removed The Helmutted Cat of Bobhio from the regional ban list.
* 61 minutes ago: The Holy Republic of The Mostly Harmless departed this region for The Rejected Realms
* 61 minutes ago: The Uber Nation of C1ndy ejected The Holy Republic of The Mostly Harmless from the region.
* 61 minutes ago: The Crazed Cat Lady of Feuler departed this region for The Rejected Realms
* 61 minutes ago: The Uber Nation of C1ndy ejected The Crazed Cat Lady of Feuler from the region.
C1ndy also left this message to join her region in the invaded region:
ATTENTION UBERIA! THE REVOLOUTION IS HERE!

ALL YOUR REGION ARE BELONG TO US!

MOVE TO UBERSITE TO JOIN THE MAGNIFICENT RAIDING ARMY!!!
She now moved back to her own region and seems to be pleased with how it turned out:
OK Guys we OWN Uberia!

How many nations do we need to get Conneticut then?
Will this become a new trend in advertising your region?
I'm not familiar with the exact circumstances in Uberia, so I'm not going to ask for a ruling on that case. However, this question does intrigue me. It is of course legal for an invader to post in the WFE of an invaded region something along the lines of "Region Invaded by xxx (http://s#.invisionfree.com/xxx)", but this seems to be essentially invading a region for the sole purpose of advertising it, which is sort of like AdSpam.

The other question is of course the Founder question. If this was done to a region with a Founder, and the Founder disapproved, would this have an effect on the severity of the offense?

It's a gray area, and I'm rather curious to hear what the ruling is on it. Because it could happen again very soon.

My gut instinct places this as completely legal. This of course is non-binding, but suggests which view we'll take in the future.

The only issue I have with what c1ndy did is the fact that she posted a recruitment message on the regional message board as illustrated in Goober's post. I've seen invasions that have used the WFE as a way to recruit, but I've yet to see one actively use the same message on the RMB, too, which to me also looks like plain old spam.

So, hypothetically speaking, could someone claim to be trying to invade a region, attempt it and fail, but still post a recruitment message for their region while claiming to be invading... I mean, it was an attempted invasion, would that circumstance be any different or is this specific to an actual "successful" invasion?

(Just pondering scenarios, not trying to ruffle feathers, yet.)

I would think it would only be legit if the invasion was successful, for then in the eyes of the new delegate, it was "their" region...

this will prolly be addressed when/if the invader rules are looked at

*NOTE* Ish not a mod. If he was, there'd be no more antacids in the house. */NOTE*

Yes, but only a Founder can grant permission for another recruiter to post messages of that nature on the RMB. If there is no Founder, I'm not sure what the policy is exactly.

Yes, but only a Founder can grant permission for another recruiter to post messages of that nature on the RMB. If there is no Founder, I'm not sure what the policy is exactly.If there is no Founder, then permission must be sought from the Delegate. So, if you've invaded the region and taken the Delegacy, then you can give yourself permission to recruit from the region. If you don't successfully take the Delegacy, then you need to obtain permission from the Delegate before recruiting.

Like my associate Salusa, above, this is non-binding for the time being. This is merely how I would extrapolate the current rules.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

Damn near every invasion I've ever seen has had this sort of thing going on. I don't see anything wrong with it either.

It doesn't sound like an exceptionally nice thing to do, but as long as the nations are removed from the banlist and free to rejoin their region it doesn't sound like griefing... In the case of a Founder: well first of all that founder must have been very soundly asleep for this to happen in the first place. Afterwards, the founder can do everything to negate this attack, no? They can revert the WFE, they can clear the RMB, they can ban the invaders.

Another question: Invaders are prohibited (last time I checked) from clearing the RMB, since only the founder can do this. Out of the ten messages necessary to clear the RMB, how many advertisements/other messages can the invaders post before it is deemed spamming? One? Two? Are the invaders allowed to have a conversation among themselves on the RMB, even one of suffícient length to clear native messages?

<SNIP>Are the invaders allowed to have a conversation among themselves on the RMB, even one of suffícient length to clear native messages?

I would think the rule on the convo would be based on intent. If they are having a discussion, and not posting nonsencical things, I'd think it okay.

As to ads, I'd think that it would be one per 24 period per region as it is with any region that allows ads. Then again, interesting thing to wonder... if the invader delegate allows ads for their region, then isn't it true that ANY region can place an ad there, for the delegate (in the absance of a founder) allows it?

*NOTE* Ish not a mod. If he was, there'd be no more antacids in the house. */NOTE*

I found this looking for something else. Sorry to dispel any conspiracy theories but it was a joke. I know the people from both regions from outide NS. We were just messing about. Noone complained did they?

The reason I am no longer involved with NS apart from playing my own nation is because of stuff like this.

Your actions are being used as an example to clarify some questions - no one's trying to 'get you in trouble' or cry 'conspiracy', so I guess I don't see a need for the sarcasm. *shrugs* There's been increased interest in Moderation lately what with the discussion on how to improve Gameplay - I can see how folks would be interested.

FYI, advertising rules in player-created regions have been revised since this thread was created. It doesn't directly affect Goobergunchia's original question, but it does affect some of the subsequent statements.

In short, whomever controls the region (be it Founder, Delegate, or both) may set that regions ad policy by posting it in the WFE. It can be as simple ("ads welcome") or as complicated ("Only ads from Middle Earth themed regions may be posted, and only on days ending in 'y'") as desired. The default is "no ads permitted", which does not have to be posted to be enforced.

Being the founder of a small region, and once again focusing on recruiting (as I did when I first joined nationstates), I'll have a biased opinion on recruiting. But perhaps we can allow ads in all regions above 500 members, the idea being if you have more than 500 members, you can afford to lose a few. It'll make it easier for small regions to grow.

By the way, where can I find the guidelines/rules on recruiting and regional advertising?

By the way, where can I find the guidelines/rules on recruiting and regional advertising?
The One Stop Rules Shop (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023) has the rules.

I don't think those large regions want to lose their RMBs to spammers anymore than the Pacifics did. Allowing adspamming in game-created regions was a compromise that pleased nobody, but satisifed the need. Spam is already against the rules of the game. We don't need to make it more accessible.

No doubt someone (ie Tuesday Heights) might remember this better than me...

but during one of the many invasion of Cuba, there was extensive advertising on the RMB, and I believe in the WFE. Stephistan was the "mod on duty" during the invasion/defender counter invasion, and did not make an issue of that particular aspect.

For what it's worth.

all regions above 500 members
Just ran across this list (http://www.safalra.com/special/nationstates/regions/), and thought I'd shut down this particular line of thought.

There are exactly FOUR player-created, 500+ regions that would qualify under your suggestions, and all four have active founders. I don't see that inviting spam into those regions would be any different than my town dumping its garbage into the neighboring town's streets.

No.

No doubt someone (ie Tuesday Heights) might remember this better than me...

but during one of the many invasion of Cuba, there was extensive advertising on the RMB, and I believe in the WFE. Stephistan was the "mod on duty" during the invasion/defender counter invasion, and did not make an issue of that particular aspect.

Cuba wasn't the only time this happened; when you have a high profile battle between invaders/defenders in a big region where for both sides a lot is at stake, I've seen both sides try and recruit during the process since a lot of people in NS - whether involved in that aspect or not - are watching to see what happens.

Building a region that size is a whole lot of work, involving months and months recruiting. It would be a show of disrespect when players start leaching from that. In game terms: It will have very negative impact on longterm diplomatic relations.
Every player can build such a region, recruiting from the feeders. No matter what excuse you have, it is not nice to disrupt communications between players who already decided where to rest their nations. Only 15 spam messages a week, can completely halt all your communications within the game. Remember, you are not the only recruiter in the game. There are at least 14 more ;)

Just ran across this list (http://www.safalra.com/special/nationstates/regions/), and thought I'd shut down this particular line of thought.

There are exactly FOUR player-created, 500+ regions that would qualify under your suggestions, and all four have active founders. I don't see that inviting spam into those regions would be any different than my town dumping its garbage into the neighboring town's streets.

No.

Like I said, I have a biased opinion on this.

Like I said, I have a biased opinion on this.Yes. You've made that painfully obvious.

Being the founder of a small region, and once again focusing on recruiting (as I did when I first joined nationstates), I'll have a biased opinion on recruiting. But perhaps we can allow ads in all regions above 500 members, the idea being if you have more than 500 members, you can afford to lose a few.

Ok, spam messages are found in 'The_Region_of_500_Nations.' Three nations have left, possibly because of them. One expired. 'The_Region_of_500_Nations' now has 496 nations. The spam is still there, and is now illegal.

What do you do? What if that's been scrolled off the regional happenings so that an observer can't see the region was at 500 when the ads were placed?

Your idea is no different than arguing we should be able to steal office furniture from Microsoft because they have so much money they can easily replace it.