NationStates Jolt Archive

To whom it may concern:

I noticed that among other threads recently on the chopping block, and that have been either re-organized (thank you mods) or de-stickied, Erastide's thread Player Pics (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=8622903) has been de-sticked as well. I know that it is proably too late, but as a show of good faith, and for all of the hard work put forth into making this thread and maintaining it on the part of Erastide - both Peechland and I have deleted what contribution we had made to the socialization of that thread.

Having a player pictures thread, though not nessecary, is a nice and a welcomed addition to NS General. Yes, we get out of hand sometimes, I admit as much willingly. However, it is nice to get an idea of who it is you are talking to and that thread, much like the other re-stickied profile thread (thank you!), provided that opportunity. I would like to ask a few quick questions, if I may, about the possibility of bringing back that thread.

First of all: Is it, or would it be possible to grant only Erastide access to that thread - thus eliminating spam?

In this fashion, we could send her revisions or requests via TG, E-mail, or IM. Also, it eliminates the chance of there being lewd or ungratifying images posted (though I'm really not sure if that was ever part of the problem) due to the fact that it would introduce a relative screen. Of course, this would have to be agreed upon by Erastide, but since she was already dealing with cutting through the thread - I can't see it posing a problem.

Secondly: I know that Moderation is not a place for open debate on such a topic, but if we could start an open conversation in here to deal with this issue - it would keep the nonsense out of it. Perhaps in that way we can look out for the interest of the NS Generalites who do appreciate the hard work that Erastide has put into that thread. As you know, there are many of us who are willing to work with you on this - any suggestions that you have are appreciated.

Thank you.

Lascivious Maximus & Peechland :)

I posted this thread in General since some members do not check this forum.


Apologies

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=410654

The Consolidation / De-Stickying project was something that I worked on today as I un-Stuck the "Ask A... & Appreciation" topic and moved it here. I got to looking at the eight or so stickies that were posted, and realized that the vast majority of the posts in most of them was spam, and very old spam at that.

I've consolidated four or five of them into the General Forum Rulings and good General advice (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=410573), and locked it down. As new Sticky-worthy topics get posted, they can be considered as an addition to that topic. (Technically, we'd let the topic originator finish his/her edits, then copy it, dump all but the first post, and Merge it into the Sticky).

As for the Player Pictures thread, you're absolutely right. It had become simply a spam sticky with only the barest mention of pictures. I sometimes saw 40 or 50 posts go by without any sort of link, and most of the remaining links were quotes of previous links.

Erastide had put a ton of effort into totally reorganizing the thread into about 28 useful posts, and within a few days it was back up in the 150-200 post range with perhaps 3 new pictures. Other mods have been stripping spam from that whenever Erastide told us she'd gotten the useful bits out. I'd say the lack of respect for the thread originator was overwhelmingly obvious.

No, we can't grant only Erastide access. We might be able to figure something out, and would welcome a visit from her in #themodcave to iron out some details. (Euroslavia and Smokey the NSer, I'd like to talk to you as well if you need to update your various threads) We would be delighted to re-sticky a pictures thread that actually had pictures in every post. If you want to create a commentary thread somewhere separate and spam that one, well ... it'll be subject to the usual rules of locking / deletion / 1300 posts and so on.

I will point out that Player Pics, like many other worthy threads, has a link in the Player Profiles sticky. Like the contents of the Euroslavia collections, the thread remains accessible even though it's no longer on every page.

Erastide, you're welcome to respond with your thoughts as well. For most of the rest of you, I'd rather you used Peechland's General topic. Thanks.

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Forum Moderator

First, I'd like to thank Lasc and Peechland for caring about it. It's rather nice. :)

I'm having a hard time deciding which way I would want to see it (not that that really matters...:p) Ideally, people would stay on topic in the thread. :rolleyes: And I do think commenting on the pics is on topic. Random discussions meandering through people's lives, no. But it's hard for people to remain on the topic of simply pictures. It devolves into life discussions/chatting very quickly. So that's a problem because it's spam/thread hijacking.

I, personally, have not minded dealing with the Pics thread. Spam and all. I enjoying keeping up the Pics thread, and I'll do it as long as people post pictures. I think the main irritation has been on the mods' side, having to periodically delete the spam out. (*hugs* to Myrth for that)

As to the issue of it being a sticky, I'm unsure what will happen with it. I don't know if people will go to it through the Profiles thread, or if it will suffer. I tend to *think* it'll suffer from not being a sticky, but then, that's life. *shrugs*

Lasc listed his reasons why having a pics thread is a good idea. Personally, I think that sense of connection that people get when they see each others' pictures is a wonderful thing for our forum. Newcomers and oldtimers alike learn about each other through the pics and profiles. At least that's my goal in keeping them up.

So.... if there's a way to make this work, I'd like to see it happen. I'm available and happy to discuss this on IRC, although I'm too tired today to do much more than post this. :D

We've discussed this among the moderation staff, and agree that a picture thread is valuable if it remains largely spam-free. On that core assumption, I've just restickied it for now.

I'd like to see a notice added in the first post of this thread indicating the ground rules of discussion. I'll leave the phrasing and choice of actions up to Erastide, though we'd obviously want all the highjacking to end. Perhaps a reminder that links can be copied, and posts quoted, and if someone wants to get into a discussion on who's hot, it could be posted in a new commentary thread. We'll probably continue to sweep it every so often, but perhaps it won't need to be quite so frequent once rules are instituted.

It's open, and will stay open. There's no need for you to have to monitor your TG box constantly to keep up with the demand. As for the rest ... well, we'll just have to see. It's nice not having all those stickies blocking the view of the new threads. Perhaps we can find a way to combine this thread with the profile thread. It's mostly up to you.

Speaking of the profile thread, it's mostly been spam-free as well. You might consider a first-post comment there as well, encouraging that. We're not planning to stickify any social threads, so let's try to keep them from degenerating again.

You've done well with those threads, Erastide. I think a lot of people use them that never post. It's nicely presented, and I'm grateful to you for having taken on that job. Thanks.

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Forum Moderator

Thank you Frisbeeteria, the gesture is appreciated and will not go unnoticed I can assure you.

I agree with Erastide that some commentation on the pictures is on topic - but I also concur that conversation is quickly directed away from simple compliments or introductions. Some conversation does serve a purpose as far as welcoming people into NS, and making them feel comfortable if it is done in a tasteful and friendly manner. Perhaps it could be suggested that if this is to be done, commentation and introduction would be kept to a reasonable limit and used as a referal to new members in an attempt to guide them into the forum (if Erastide is in agreement and willing to allow this amount of posting of course).

As you say Frisbeeteria, random conversations between established users (myself included, though I have made an attempt to cut down) should be re-directed into existing or new and relatively defined social threads. This may have to include pictures that are taken in an attempt to stimulate said conversation - if, that is, the conversation has no merrit within the picture thread.

As far as complimentation on appearance - I know that for myself it is sometimes nice to recieve a friendly compliment, or a reference made to the content of a picture. This falls into the category of making people that post in NS comfortable, however, there are limits to the value in this sort of response to pictures - and can quickly have adverse effects on the comfort of new members. A little compliment, made in good taste, is valuable - drooling monosylabic grunts and groans... perhaps not so much.

This falls into a relatively grey area though; one which has a defintion based on ones own sense of what is decent and what is not. Let me be the first to admit that I have crossed that line in the past. I am, however, taking presence of good will not to carry on as such in the future. Again, efforts would have to be made in an attempt to discourage people from carrying on frivolous conversation within the thread. A defintion of what is acceptable as far as content and conversation length related to posted pictures is something I myself am struggling with trying to lay out for others opinion on the matter.

That said, I am glad to see the threads re-stickied for the moment. It is nice to develop an idea of who exactly you are talking to, even if only for the slight amount of humanization and personality it adds to conversation and debate within the forum. I hope that a concensus can be reached, and that all members of the forums will respect whatever final suggestions are made by Erastide, the Mods or otherwise.

Thank you again Frisbeeteria for your efforts and diplomacy in dealing with this, to Myrth for taking the time and having the fortitude to deal with the spam thus far, and to Erastide for maintaining these threads, having the patience to deal with the fellow NS'ers and doing such a fantastic job of it. My hat is off to you all.

Lascivious Maximus

Thanks. :)

I'll write up a warning tomorrow. Now I have room in the first post.

I think it also falls to us to police ourselves. If we see obvious spam in places that it is not appropriate, then a kind word from us to the offender will do a lot to make the Mods life easier, and keep the thread clean.

Thanks for re:stickying the pic thread :fluffle:

Thank you very much mods

Just to offer a different take perhaps, in an effort to help out with a possible compromise?

I realize that there are many in General who dont' want anything to do with RP, and some who actively despise it, but there has been a phenomenon that's developed with it that might help out here.

Many roleplayers prefer to keep their IC threads free of a lot of OOC commentary and fluff. In order to help out with that, a lot of people make an IC thread, and then an OOC thread (same title, just different designations) and then ask that folks use the OOC one for any questions, comments, organization, chatter, etc. A link to the corresponding thread is usually included in both for easy access.

Might something like this be helpful in situations like the picture sticky? People could comment, link which particular post/picture they were referring to, and compliment etc to their heart's content without worrying about accidentally crossing that grey line Lascivious Maximus mentions in his post, and not feeling like their freedom to make friendly comments is being stifled.

It's easy enough to use the 'subscribe' feature Jolt has to keep track of all the threads one regularly posts to or references, so the 'Comments' threads wouldn't need to be stickied, and the frequency with which they likely get posted to -and- having the link in the stickied thread should make it easy for folks to find, even if they don't avail themselves of the tracking tools.

And yes, Gawdly - in the absence of such alternatives, self-moderation remains the best method in my never to be humble opinion. ;)

Thank you moderators. I only recently understood the spamming concept, thus have despammed (unspammed, disspammed), wherever I could. I trust you won't see any more from me....

Fris, you've done an amazing job in General. Thank you. :)