NationStates Jolt Archive

Hello.

I don't know if you can help me to prove that i am not a certain nation.

I've been playing NS for about a year, and a few months ago I got involved with a bunch of folks called the ADN.

To cut a long story short, for reasons known only to themselves (I think they have gone mad) they have accused me of sharing an IP with another nation called Kalikratis. I'm not this nation- I'm guessing they live near me or have posted from where I work (a school). They won't tell me the IP I'm supposed to have used, nor where they got it, or where the IP from the other nation came from.

While i no longer care about being in the ADN, I'd like to clear my name because it's not nice to have people call me a liar.

I'm banned from the ADN forums (!) for discussing this, but you can read a boring thread about it here:

http://s4.invisionfree.com/thepacific/index.php?showtopic=1406&st=75&#last

I guess they just don't want to admit they made a mistake, but I want them to know I'm innocent of the claims they have made, and hope that this will make them more careful about how they accuse people in future.

I would REALLY appreciate it if someone here could help me to clear my name.

I highly doubt the NS mods would help in an offsite matter.

For what its worth thats not me.

so why do they think I am you then?

so why do they think I am you then?
No idea but if anyone online now where to look they would see we are both online at once. As far as I know that is not possible from one computer.

I bet the ADN go very quiet about this- you're right- we are both online at the same time, and someone could check that we are in different places with different IPs.

Not our jurisdiction. Take it up with ADN people. As long as it doesn't spill into NationStates, we aren't going to do anything (and, indeed, we can't do anything).

Thanks for replying. It turns out that me and Kalikratis live in the same city and use the same ISP (NTL), which might explain why our IP addresses appeared to be the same. You moderators might want to keep an eye open for that.

Actually that is a really good point for UN membership.

No idea but if anyone online now where to look they would see we are both online at once. As far as I know that is not possible from one computer.

It's actually quite easy. Just open two different browsers.

Oh well then. I never thought of that.

Nor did I.

I am not Kalikratis in a different browser though. He is at work, and I am at my house. He does live quite near me though. Anyone want to suggest how we can prove we are not the same person?

(Nationstates- the new way to make friends in your area... wait to be accused of being them and then bond over trying to prove your innocence)

Note that I am speaking unofficially. I cannot provide IP information as a NationStates Moderator.

Anyone want to suggest how we can prove we are not the same person?
If someone in the ADN also lives in your area, then they could verify that you're separate people. Personally, I wouldn't recommend this, as it might go so far as to require that you let this player into your respective houses.
Having two broswers open simultaneously from the same computer would still show the same IP (I assume). If the ADN will allow both of you onto their forums and you two log on at the same time, you two should have different IPs. This, however, only proves that you two are not the same person at that time. It doesn't prove that the accounts never used to belong to the same person in the past (id est, one account could have been given to a friend to fool the ADN).

In short, I think you're stuck. :\

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

...

(Nationstates- the new way to make friends in your area... wait to be accused of being them and then bond over trying to prove your innocence)
...or you two could just give up and start dating. :D

--The Jovial States of Cogitation
"Laugh about it for a moment."
NationStates Self-Proclaimed Court Jester

actually, coggy...
i think it is possible to be online with two different ip's on a forum at the same time from the same computer...

*goes to try it out*

Hehehe. :rolleyes:

yup, just did it, it works...

also, can't c1ndy ask for verification of her not being kali..something?

i remember people asking for this, and mods confirming if he or she is or isn't the owner of that nation?

Hahaha @ dating. Kalikratis has lost out I'm afraid- I'm very married.

Someone from the ADN is welcome to come round my house and verify my identity... I'm afraid that even if they did this now they would just imply that we've made the whole thing up, and that the nations were both mine... or his all along... or something.

I'm not desperate to be let back in the ADN (look how they treat their members for goodness sake), just bringing my experience with you all, and trying to prove my innocence.

My advice: don't have anything to do with the ADN if you use NTL broadband in Portsmouth UK- you will probably be accused of being me... or Kalikratis or maybe both!

This is just another attempt at a bad PR campaign. The IP is a direct match from a home computer and a non-static, fixed address.

I, like CG, wonder--since it's her request, could not you guys verify whether or not both nations are hers? Because this is getting very old, and she did ask for it...

yup, just did it, it works...

also, can't c1ndy ask for verification of her not being kali..something?

i remember people asking for this, and mods confirming if he or she is or isn't the owner of that nation?

That's what I'm asking for CG. I'm not Kalikratis and I wondered if a moderator would confirm it for me. Apparently they can't because it's not to do with the game. Even though it has efectively ruined the game for me because most of the people I played it with now think that I am a liar.

...or you two could just give up and start dating. :D

--The Jovial States of Cogitation
"Laugh about it for a moment."
NationStates Self-Proclaimed Court Jester

Shhh! My girlfriend might hear!

i remember people asking for this, and mods confirming if he or she is or isn't the owner of that nation?
I can see confirmation that they are, but proving something isn't is a lot harder than proving it is.

I run a corporate test lab, and I could easily create and run a dozen separate nations on a dozen of my test machines. Each would show up as a separate external IP, though they would all share our corporate gateway. There is no way for anyone to tell whether those dozen IPs are controlled by a single player, or by a group of co-workers who wanted to play this neat game.

You can't prove a negative. Sorry.

There are not even different external IPs in this case. It's a spot-on match and has been for months and months now, with no change from either party. It's not a co-worker situation, as it's from a home computer.

Not alot I can say really. I'm not her anyway. You'd have to ask NTL why we show up the same. I'd still like to know how my IP has become such public knowledge.

Not alot I can say really. I'm not her anyway. You'd have to ask NTL why we show up the same. I'd still like to know how my IP has become such public knowledge.
If you've registered on any offsite forums, then your IP is known to the Admins of those forums.

I will consult with NationStates Moderators more experienced than I, but I anticipate that this request will be denied; NationStates Moderators have to remain neutral in gameplay disputes.

I remind everyone that "Moderation" is not here to settle gameplay disputes unless rules or rulebreaking are involved. I trust that I am clear to all concerned.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

I remind everyone that "Moderation" is not here to settle gameplay disputes unless rules or rulebreaking are involved. I trust that I am clear to all concerned.

I agree with you 100%.

It's been suggested that i am breaking the rules. Kalikratis and I both have UN nations. (not c1ndy or Kalikratis)- we aren't the same person. This has got to be a gamplay issue as we are being accused of cheating.

The only UN nation I'm aware of being involved here is Nevareion. All three of the nations we're talking about are involved in the judiciary in their regions.

LOL, must check who I'm logged on as.

It's been suggested that i am breaking the rules. Kalikratis and I both have UN nations.

Even if you aren't the same nation, if there's no way to tell the difference, having the same IP is still breaking the rules of UN multiing, as I understand it, because you can't tell who is behind the address, only that it's being used multiple times.

Actually that is a really good point for UN membership.
Which was why I posted this. It is a potential issue. If Nation States can't tell the difference between NTL accounts from a small geographical area then that needs making clear.

Well, I'm not sure if it works for you guys, but...

My friend had Cogeco (here in Canada) for a while, and they use static IPs. He called Cogeco because someone was hacking his computer and asked them to change it and they did. One of you might want to try that.

and how exactly would you cheat in this game?

and how exactly would you cheat in this game?

Having 2 or more nations in the UN at one time is cheating, mainly because it allows you to endorse yourself and vote on resolutions many times.

imagine the phone call:

*hello ntl- someone on the internet is accusing me of being Kalikratis- could you change my IP please?*

imagine the phone call:

*hello ntl- someone on the internet is accusing me of being Kalikratis- could you change my IP please?*

That's not what you'd do at all. I had to call Comcast Cable, because I'm on a wireless network with my fiancee - both of us play NationStates - and I asked about the possibility of getting two separate IP addresses. Unfortunately, they wanted to charge me about $90 in addition to my current bill every month to maintain a second IP address.

For the most part, from what I've heard from friends who need more than one IP address for whatever reason, most ISPs are pretty cool about wanting to change it or even if you inquire about it.

If you and someone else has the same IP address, I'd call up NTL on the spot and ask them about it, because potentially, if another person is committing a crime with "your" IP address, you could be held liable in a court of law.

This thread seems ripe for a precedent of other cases in which UN multis claim someone else has their same exact IP. :confused:

Even if you aren't the same nation, if there's no way to tell the difference, having the same IP is still breaking the rules of UN multiing, as I understand it, because you can't tell who is behind the address, only that it's being used multiple times.
We go by more than IP addresses. For security reasons, I will not elaborate.

Which was why I posted this. It is a potential issue. If Nation States can't tell the difference between NTL accounts from a small geographical area then that needs making clear.
"Nevareion" is not a UN multi.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

Thank you for checking.

Could you also confirm then that my UN nation is not a UN multi?

Here are my nations:

Non UN- all in the LEN: c1ndy, Joely1, Birthday Cake.

and Red I in Trav Khar.

and um... Shoesland in New Liberty is my UN Nation.

I realise that most people didn't realise i had all these nations-I haven't broken any game rules because only one of them has ever been UN at a time.

Could you also confirm then that my UN nation is not a UN multi?

Here are my nations:

Non UN- all in the LEN: c1ndy, Joely1, Birthday Cake.

and Red I in Trav Khar.

and um... Shoesland in New Liberty is my UN Nation.

I realise that most people didn't realise i had all these nations-I haven't broken any game rules because only one of them has ever been UN at a time.
I'll check when I have time, but remember that this will probably not disprove a link between "Kalikratis" and "C1ndy".

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Ah the woes of DHCP. As one of you pointed out, both of you are using the same ISP. Normally when an ISP hands out IPs, it is by household. Seems somebody made a big mistake down at the office and handed out the same IP to two different households. Either that or your ISP is odd and does IPs by regions, lol. Anyways, you could have 10 million computers on a LAN that runs into the Internet, but the outside world only sees the external IP assigned by your ISP. This is why it's hard as hell to get a trace on a hacker beyond the ISP, even with a search warrant. (I should know, I've had to trace two hackers before. And I should be thankful I have free long distance on my cellphone, calling Canada in addition to half the US ain't cheap.) The ISP has to wade through hundreds of connection logs to see who connected to the gateway at a given time. Anyways, my solution to you would be to call up your ISP and tell them you're being labeled a hacker or whatnot because of activities that are being traced back to your EXTERNAL, external is the key phrase here, IP. Then ask them to assign you a different one. Either that or just get ADN to read this explaination and hope they decide to show grace, lol.

Apparently our service provider assigns an IP but the one that shows up on a trace is the IP of the local node which masks our individual ones. We live in the same city so we are using the same node. Hence the same IP. It is as you have described Ghorunda.

For info: I contacted my ISP today, and they were very helpful. They said that the reason our IPs show up the same is because we are using the same server- the bloke said that people on forums and stuff can only see this and not my computer's connection to the internet. This explains why the IP in my computer is not the same as the one they were saying proved I was Kalkaios. The man also advised me to be careful of people on forums who think they are technical Gods! The other thing he did, for my piece of mind, was to check that my computer hadn't been hacked I can 100% assure you that Kalikaios is also not hacking into my computer and using my IP addresss. Phew!

It's important to me that you confirm I'm not UN multying, when you get the chance- thankyou for offering to do this for me. :)

That's still all hearsay (especially the unnecessary "technical Gods" comment :rolleyes: ). Anyway, it's now a moot matter whether or not we believe you on the issue of Kali, as you have already confessed to lying about other things when confronted, and to giving other players access to your account on our forum, etc. As far as the ADN is concerned, this issue that should never have been brought here anyway is closed.

I't's not an ADN matter anyway- he's checking both our UN nations to prove to the people whose opinions we value that we haven't broken any of the game rules. It isn't a moot point for me bacuse I'm the one accused of being a nation I'm not- if anyone would like to contact NTL in the UK I'm sure they will confirm what I have told you- it's a pretty hard story to make up (and the "technical Gods" comment was what he actually said to me- he was a really funny guy).

Everything else Pope Hope- if you desperately want to talk about access to the ADN forum "etc"... fine! maybe you could TG me or post on forums or whatever- I don't want to annoy people here- this is my thread about proving I'm not Kalikrantis.

Just to preemptively end this before it starts, C1ndy is correct.
this is my thread about proving I'm not Kalikrantis.
This is not an ADN matter, it's a NationStates question. Accusations of off-site behavior are irrelevant and frankly don't belong here. Let's keep Moderation on a NationStates jurisdictional plane, please.

You brought the ADN into it and used that as your basis of publicly posting this everywhere. It's relevent. You made it an ADN and NS matter when it never should have gone past offsite forums. Gameplay disputes don't belong in moderation.

I don't even mildly want to talk about it any more, much less "desperately." I was simply pointing out that the reason you came here is no longer valid, as there is far more than one reason why your membership was revoked--which is, again, gameplay, not a moderation issue.

Fris...was posting as you were.

That's exactly my point. No one came here asking if they were UN multies. :cool:

Just to preemptively end this before it starts, C1ndy is correct.

This is not an ADN matter, it's a NationStates question. Accusations of off-site behavior are irrelevant and frankly don't belong here. Let's keep Moderation on a NationStates jurisdictional plane, please.

Thankyou :)

I'm a bit jealous that Kalikarthos got his nations checked first though... seeing as this is my special thread. I'm not going to comment on any of the other stuff here!

I have checked all of the nations involved. None of them are UN multies.

I will not answer the question of which nations are puppets of whom. It's theoretically possible for two players to pass puppets backand-forth between them in such a way that they don't violate the UN multi rules. I will not say if this is being done, here.

When I said that "I remind everyone that "Moderation" is not here to settle gameplay disputes unless rules or rulebreaking are involved", I meant everyone. That's Kalikratos. That's C1ndy. That's Pope Hope.

Are there any questions related to this incident or to related NationStates policy?

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

Understood. I have no questions thank you.

Thanks for clearing this up for us.

A couple of points from this I guess- first I ask people to be very careful about throwing accusations about "home" PCs. Second, remember this is supposed to be fun guys! The reason I didn't let this go is because I've met cool people from all over the world here, and I didn't want to get kicked out of the game or lose my UN nation or whatever.

Last- could someone lock this thread- I don't want anyone using it to make up other stuff, or to say they don't believe the evidence!