NationStates Jolt Archive

My dear Moderators,
I bring your attention to a nation which shocks me to my core.
"The Empire of Dave Hitler" is clearly a glorification of Hitler, the Nazis and the evil acts which they comitted against the world.

I beg for you to promptly take action.

Thank you so much.

STR

first off its free speach, as long as he isnt going around telegraming people to Hail Hitler and discriminating other races then i belive he should be aloud to name his nation what he wants to name it.

I admit i do not know this person or made any sort of contact with him, however, how do you know that his name is not Dave Hitler? Hitler was after all the surname of Adolf Hitler. It is possible, even likely, that there will be people living today whose surname is Hitler.

Do you suggest that because of this Dave who could be unrelated and of German decent should be prevented from using his name on this site?

How about the england cricket player Nasar Hussein should be stopped from playing cricket as his name being in the media, in your words, "glorifies" Sadam's acts?

What about all the nations with refrences to Iraq or America? They have also done evil things.

All i'm saying is that you should not immediately jump to conclusions and exclude people due to there name or ancestry.

Ironically you run the risk of following in the nazi footsteps and by generalising due to the name of a nation on an internet based game.

I apologise for the length.

People can make their nations anything they want them to be, be it a Nazi nation, a Communist nation, or an ultimate Capitalist nation. It doesn't necessarily reflect their actual beliefs. For example, I am not a pirate, and am even strongly against software piracy. Yet, this nation I'm logged into right now is made up entirely of pirates. I have another nation made up of robots, yet I am not a robot. Just like I'm not a supporter of the military, unlike one of my other nations which is actually run by the military. Your nation doesn't have to be based on your beliefs; in fact I'm of the opinion that to do so is inherently stupid -- it only leads to bitter arguments and resentment, as I have seen countless times in the RP forums.
There have been nations far worse than Nazis before, and they have been permitted to exist. Read through International Incidents for a few examples. It's a game, and Nazi nations can, and have, existed in real life. It wouldn't be much of a nation simulator if you were banned for specific ideologies -- moreover, the moderators would have to be biased to do so.

So long as this guy isn't going around posting things that are against the rules, I don't think there is a problem here. And I don't think that 'Dave Hitler is a direct violation of the rules. You just need a thicker skin, a little more tolerance, and a better understanding of the word 'game'.

I think having a swastika as your nation's flag is about as far as they can go, though. So if he has one of those, it's bye-bye nation whether he believes in Nazism or not.

Racism and Nazism, per se, are not violations of NationStates rules. Racists, and indeed, anyone with any political viewpoint, are permitted to express their opinions on NationStates so long as they remain civil towards other NationStates players. We Moderators do not censor political debate.

Swastikas are not allowed on NationStates flags. Aside from that, there are no belief-specific restrictions on NationStates.

This complaint is dismissed. No Moderator action will be taken.

I also note that in-game violations should be reported via Getting Help (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) page.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

Esteemed Moderators,
I just went to this guy's nation and two things stood out are very disturbing. First, hit quote of, "Hitler was only slightly evil compared to me." If there is ever a clear indication of agreement with a view point that would be it. Saying Hitler was only midly like you shows that you have the same view points- namely murdering all the Jews and other minorities.

Second, his flag. While not a Swatistka, it *IS* Hitler himself and in the opinion of this NSer, there is no differencce.

There may not be much diffence between the swastika and Hitler in your eyes, but the rule comes from Max Barry himself. The Mods didn't make this rule, and they may not like it, but they have to enforce it.

As a person who lost dozens of family members in the Holocaust, including many would-be great uncles who, at age 5, instead were exterminated like rats in gas chambers and burned to ashes, I find NS's policy (or lack thereof) appauling.

If you don't like the policy, don't play the game.

As a person who lost dozens of family members in the Holocaust, including many would-be great uncles who, at age 5, instead were exterminated like rats in gas chambers and burned to ashes, I find NS's policy (or lack thereof) appauling.


Well I'm sorry that your family has gone through that, but you can't truly know someone just by looking at their nations' page. The only way that you can truly tell if they are racist is if they were to post in the forum in a manner that would confirm it.

If we were to ban pictures of Hitler as flags, then we would have to start banning pictures that offend everyone, such as President Bush, Stalin, and practically everyone else. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Everyone is allowed to have their own belief here on NationStates, but when it gets to the point of them forcing it upon others, and reject other peoples' points of view, thats when action is taken. To my knowledge, this player hasn't done any of the sort.

if you push those opinions away, they'll just brew where no one can see it.

if you let them express their opinions, it's possible to fight them with words, and perhaps, show them why they're wrong.

I find NS's policy (or lack thereof) appauling.'First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist, so I said nothing. Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I was not a Social Democrat, so I did nothing. Then came the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did little. Then when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up for me.'
Did it ever occur to you that Max Barry might believe in everyone's right to speak their minds, specifically because of the very lack of freedoms that cost six million Jews their lives?

I believe in arguing with racists, proving supremecists wrong, and poking logical holes in Nazis ... but I don't think they need to be silenced by policy. You can't fight that which you can't see. Do you really want these opinions only to surface in moments of rage, rather than in a forum of reason?

Did it ever occur to you that Max Barry might believe in everyone's right to speak their minds, specifically because of the very lack of freedoms that cost six million Jews their lives?

I believe in arguing with racists, proving supremecists wrong, and poking logical holes in Nazis ... but I don't think they need to be silenced by policy. You can't fight that which you can't see. Do you really want these opinions only to surface in moments of rage, rather than in a forum of reason?

Better for it to surface in unreasoning moments of rage where holes can be poked in the ideologies more easily.

if you push those opinions away, they'll just brew where no one can see it.

if you let them express their opinions, it's possible to fight them with words, and perhaps, show them why they're wrong.
That was certainly true before the internet.

Now, I'm not sure. Sites like stormfront allow them undeserved respectability.

get on their sites and forums, fight them with words there, if they delete your input, means they fear you and can't fight you ;)

set up counter-websites to put your thoughts on, use weblogs, fight them on neutral grounds like here.

education and creating mutual understanding is the best way to fight hatred and fear.

edit: with fight, i do mean while staying civil, and fighting ideas, not people.

Better for it to surface in unreasoning moments of rage where holes can be poked in the ideologies more easily.
It has been my experience that such unreasoning moments of rage are often accompanied by guns and burning objects. Thanks, but I prefer the forums.

My dear Moderators,
I bring your attention to a nation which shocks me to my core.
"The Empire of Dave Hitler" is clearly a glorification of Hitler, the Nazis and the evil acts which they comitted against the world.

I beg for you to promptly take action.

Thank you so much.

STR

What is evil can only be concidered opinion. It is free speech and needs no such punishment.

-TWN, 14/88