NationStates Jolt Archive

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=404093&page=2&pp=15

This thread was started as a thread of rememberance, and players/nations post things that is not wanted in such a thread. I kindly ask that the mods delete posts 12, 13, 20 and 23, 24 and make a warning please asking players to respect the topic starters wishes.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8409802&postcount=1
Last edited by Imperial Brits : Today at 11:27 PM.

I'm afraid that you cant add that in after the fact. The moderators don't remove posts just because they have different points of view than you. Next time, put that little disclaimer in there before anything happens, rather than announcing it after the fact, and hoping for action to be taken.

Perhaps you should read the whole thread and leave moderation to the mods?

I have clearly said in post nine that the debate is to end. I have also requested the player to delete his posts now that the problem has been clarified. anything after post nine should be deleted at least.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8409956&postcount=4

You can't not expect such responses when posting something as controverial as that. Though I'm not justifying their responses...

This thread has been created to highlight the horror that guns create, they are perhaps the most horrific invention that the human race has ever created. I will be praying for the small souls killed, and I hope that you all join me in my prayers.

The thread was created to highlight the horror guns create. Has it done that? Yes it has. There is no need to debate on the subject, as in the Unitked Kingdom there is no debate, guns are banned and they are banned for a bloody good reason. The manipulating of the topic onto whether ot not guns should be banned or not was by other players, it is off topic, and in my view tasteless. If the mods cannot delete the posts please lock the thread, this incident makes me want to quit this game, they argue over a petty thing and don't even think about the attack, the children, all they care about is their guns. I am disgusted.

If the mods cannot delete the posts please lock the thread, this incident makes me want to quit this game, they argue over a petty thing and don't even think about the attack, the children, all they care about is their guns. I am disgusted.
That's a bit of an overreaction, in my opinion. We've been reviewing the topic, just havent' acted yet. Not to mention forum unresponsiveness and other issues.

Tell you what. Go copy what you want from the thread and repost it. When you're done, post here and I'll soft-delete the old one. Make sure you include your on-topic warning, and the rest of you, respect that.

Fair enough?

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Moderator Team

[edit - after further review (and the deletion by posters of relevant posts), I deleted all references to the gun debate. That left the first three posts.]

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Moderator Team

[edit - after further review (and the deletion by posters of relevant posts), I deleted all references to the gun debate. That left the first three posts.]Anyone reading his first post can tell it's not just a rememberance thread.

I find it a bit strange that someone can post things like: "led to the UK banning the civilian ownership of handguns in 1997. Britain 's gun control organisation, the Gun Control Network, was at the forefront of the campaign to ban handguns. GCN is an active IANSA member and continues to campaign for reforms to prevent gun violence in the UK ." and not expect debate.

As I posted, I would have respected a thread honestly remembering a tragedy, but this was a post with an agenda, and having that agenda enforced as uncontestable seems a bit much.

As always though, not my forums, they are your decisions, just some feedback.

Isn't a thread that just posts an opinion and then refuses to allow any reply execpt "I agree" kind of pointless?

Why was my post deleted?

Mods have told me in the past I cannot exclude opinions from my threads.

Why was my post deleted?

Mods have told me in the past I cannot exclude opinions from my threads.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8410786&postcount=6

[edit - after further review (and the deletion by posters of relevant posts), I deleted all references to the gun debate. That left the first three posts.]
By the time I had a chance to get back to that topic, it had been almost obliterated by people removing random posts. After consulting with other moderators, I decided that this was intended to be a remembrance thread rather than a gun debate, and I removed all posts except the first three. Post four, by Imperial Brits, was the virulently anti-gun post that started the whole gun debate, and it too was removed.

Moderators are in fact permitted to remove off-topic posts at their discretion. The facts that the thread was massively off-topic after only three posts, and that the original off-topic divergence was by the thread starter, are irrelevant. The topic starter asked us to remove the off-topic discussion and I did. The fact that I cleared far more than he asked for is part of the aforementioned Moderator discretion.

I didn't single out anyone's opinion. I only removed posts that referred to the gun debate ... which was all but three of them.
Isn't a thread that just posts an opinion and then refuses to allow any reply execpt "I agree" kind of pointless?
If "having a point" were a requirement of threads posted in the General forum, it would be considerably smaller.

Then in theory, could someone could make a thread in "remembrance" of a topic that could be considered flamebaiting (a controversial topid, like this one), is that correct?

Then in theory, could someone could make a thread in "remembrance" of a topic that could be considered flamebaiting (a controversial topid, like this one), is that correct?
In theory, were someone to make such a thread, then they would get a non-theoretical warning. Theoretically speaking, of course.

Using the same logic, I construct a similar theorum:The sum of the areas of the squares on the legs of a right triangle is equal to ... a giraffeLet me put it in a simpler way. No.

In theory, were someone to make such a thread, then they would get a non-theoretical warning. Theoretically speaking, of course.

Using the same logic, I construct a similar theorum:The sum of the areas of the squares on the legs of a right triangle is equal to ... a giraffeLet me put it in a simpler way. No.

I'm just not understanding why its possible to make a thread like this "exclusion worthy", as I was under the impression that this wasn't possible on general.

As a rule, General is something of a free-for-all, subject as usual to the rules of the forums as established by Max and enforced by [violet], Salusa, and the Mod Squad. There are certain exceptions to this, observed by common decency and respect for the human condition, that are occasionally tolerated. One example of this would be, "Please pray for my dying sister". Another might be "Let us remember the massacred children who died a year ago today".

That is where 'Moderator discretion' comes into play. We can tell the difference between those sorts of topics and "Blacks and Jews shouldn't be allowed to breed" threads. The rules aren't written in stone precisely because of rules lawyers who try to find cracks in them. There are no hard and fast rules because some of our players could find a loophole in a brick wall.

Using this ruling as a precedent to create a flame thread = bad idea. That's my final word on the subject.


~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Moderator Team

For the record, I was one of several Moderators asked for a second opinion on this topic when it was first brought to our attention. My initial judgment was that a remembrance thread should not be a place for political debate, if that was the intent of the thread author. Thus, I recommended that debate be cut out of the thread, as requested.

However, I was tired at the time and I did not review the topic as carefully as I should have before making a recommendation. We Mods are human, we do make mistakes. After looking at the thread again, I have brought this up for reconsideration among the NationStates Moderators and a new judgment is now being rendered.

The thread is going to remain a remembrance thread dedicated to those who were tragically killed, but to prevent this from being used as an excuse to further a political agenda, all political statements have been cut from the opening post. If Imperial Brits wants to keep debate out of the topic, then that will be honored on the condition that nobody will make any political statements whatsoever, either pro-gun or anti-gun.

The thread was created to highlight the horror guns create. Has it done that? Yes it has. There is no need to debate on the subject, as in the Unitked Kingdom there is no debate, guns are banned and they are banned for a bloody good reason. The manipulating of the topic onto whether ot not guns should be banned or not was by other players, it is off topic, and in my view tasteless. If the mods cannot delete the posts please lock the thread, this incident makes me want to quit this game, they argue over a petty thing and don't even think about the attack, the children, all they care about is their guns. I am disgusted.
[Emphasis mine.]

There may be no debate in the United Kingdom, but there is debate on NationStates. Whether or not guns should be banned is not a trivial problem with an obvious solution. So, civil debate on the subject will not be censored, nor will any political viewpoint be given preferential treatment.

I will also point out that it was not other players who manipulated the topic onto whether or not guns should be banned, it was you, yourself, in your opening post who manipulated the topic into a statement of why guns should be banned (or remain banned, as the case may be).

I will also point out that it is possible for a reasonable person to care about the fate of innocent children while simultaneously opposing gun control. Thus, your statement about "all they care about is their guns" is unwarranted and you would be well-advised to avoid this in the future.

No official warnings are being issued. Once again, the topic will remain a remembrance topic and debate will not be allowed in that topic. However, this also means that Imperial Brits (and supporters) are prohibited from posting anti-gun statements in that thread.

iUnlock to hear any responses to, or questions on, this ruling.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

Let me just say Cog, I totally agree with that ruling. Good job. (<- actually being sincere).

However, I think it is about to turn into a death penalty debate, the topic is just to sticky and divisive for a rememberance thread.