NationStates Jolt Archive

My "Tax Ceiling" proposal was deleted and I received a telegram telling me not to submit "proposals unworthy of UN consideration". Now what was wrong with my proposal? :mad:

Looks like you tried to change the rules of the game, unless I am mistaken what "Tax ceiling" means. It was a proposal not to have your citizens taxed higher than a certain percentage, right? Would it involve and changes in how taxes are calculated or in game codings? If you can answer "yes" to at least one of these questions, it would be a UN proposal to change game mechanics. That is a big nono.

No, it was a simple proposal to forbid UN members to over-tax their citizens. It was not an attempt to change game mechanics.

No, it was a simple proposal to forbid UN members to over-tax their citizens. It was not an attempt to change game mechanics.

And what exactly would this "overtaxing" be?

50% 75% 100%?

It sounds like you didn't realy submit a concrete proposal, but would you send it to me via TG or via my email? I'd like to have a look at it.

Standard disclaimer: I'm not a mod, yaddi, yaddi, yaddi.

It was a cap set at 40%.

It was a cap set at 40%.
Did it mention anything about what happened to nations who had anything above that?

Well that would require the changing of the game rules, because all UN nations would have to have their tax-rates fixed at 40% or lower.

I think thats why your proposal was unworthy as the telegram said of being a UN proposal.

Nooo! My citizens are taxed at 100%! It's for their own good!

Hey hey, I'd like to be able to choose my own levels of tax, thank you very much. I don't want some neo-conservative telling me that anything above 40% is over-taxation. Besides, it's not. 100% is the only way to go, so my nation tells me, and my people are very happy indeed so I'd quite like the submitee of said proposal to butt out of what goes on in my happily communist utopia.

Humph.

It was a cap set at 40%.

Taxes are calculated by the game. Setting a cap on it, would mean interfering with gamemechanics. It is a simple as that.

I'm not the moderator who dealt with this, but I would assume it was deleted for violating game mechanics. Tax rates are calculated by the game and the UN cannot impose a limit on this. To put such a thing into effect would require a recoding of the game, something which is not going to happen.

I'm not the moderator who dealt with this, but I would assume it was deleted for violating game mechanics. Tax rates are calculated by the game and the UN cannot impose a limit on this. To put such a thing into effect would require a recoding of the game, something which is not going to happen.
I am also not the Moderator who deleted this proposal, but I concur with my associate. Setting a tax limit of 40% is definitely a game mechanics violation. Do not resubmit the proposal under any circumstances.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

I am also not the Moderator who deleted this proposal, but I concur with my associate. Setting a tax limit of 40% is definitely a game mechanics violation. Do not resubmit the proposal under any circumstances.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
Hey Cog, lookit:
http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/91519/page=UN_proposal/start=80
It's on this page somewhere.

Was it not deleted before, or am I correct and that was a resubmission?

It was a cap set at 40%.


It really doesn't matter. But yeah that kinda would be interfering with the mechanics. Had that been passed, I would've just ignored it and keep my taxes high. I need high taxes for a good millitary. It's for my people's own good lol.

It's nice when people post the text of proposals that got deleted. :/

The proposal linked to by Neo-Anarchists reads as follows:

Tax Ceiling

A resolution to reduce barriers to free trade and commerce.

Category: Free Trade
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Free Garza

Description: No income taxes shall exceed 40%, whether personal or corporate.

Approvals: 7 (Free Garza, Monument City, WZ Forums, Cihlar, Das freie Land, Geidi Centauri Prime, Maraque)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 139 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Sat Feb 26 2005

Under the ruling of the two Deputy Secretaries-General, the Representative from General Melchett and the Delegate from Cogitation, I raise a point of order against this proposal.

[Lord] Michael Evif
Goobergunchian UN Ambassador
Current UN Nation: Bawlmer

Hmmm....I lapsed into IC there, didn't I? *shrug*

-snip-
It's the exact same proposal that Cog said not to propose again, if I remember correctly.

Estate Tax Limits
A resolution to reduce barriers to free trade and commerce.

Category: Free Trade
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Free Garza

Description: No estate or inheritance tax shall exceed 20%.
Capital Gains Tax Cap
A resolution to reduce barriers to free trade and commerce.

Category: Free Trade
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Free Garza

Description: Capital gains taxes shall be restricted to a maximum level of 15%. This will boost small business, the major victims of this tax.
Tax Ceiling
A resolution to reduce barriers to free trade and commerce.

Category: Free Trade
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Free Garza

Description: No income taxes shall exceed 40%, whether personal or corporate.
Two counts of game mechanics violations and one count of resubmitting a deleted proposal without Moderator permission.

"Free Garza" has been ejected from the United Nations.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

:mad: :headbang: I fail to see how these interfere with your calculation of taxes or with game mechanics. Is this because you are setting the tax rates? My understanding was that the member nations had some control over tax rates by means of spending measures, and I was making a point that tax cuts are no more an infringement on national sovereignty than some of the silly socialistic resolutions that the UN likes to pass. However, so be it. I am staying out of the UN permanently. That goes for all of my nations. We are staying out of the UN as a matter of protest.

:mad: :headbang: I fail to see how these interfere with your calculation of taxes or with game mechanics. Is this because you are setting the tax rates?
The way it interferes with game mechanics is that many issues deal with lowering or raising taxes. For this proposal, the admins would have to reprogram the game to fix the maximum tax level at 40% for UN members.

It was a cap set at 40%.By just deleting telegrams from the UN committees (dismissing all issues), over the vourse of the year, my tax rates went from 20% to 100%. The UN is expensive, thus this proposition would end up unmaking most of the propositions (though, really, we just cycle through the same three propositions over and over, or make a proposition to undo any changes made outside gay rights, clean atmosphere, or health & human services).

But forcing nations to spend more money doesn't affect game mechanics or how much the tax rates are? I was making a point about the silly resolutions that frequently that require more spending by member nations, thus shoving SOCIALISM down their throats. Seems like a double standard to me. Not that it matters to me. I'll have no more truck with the UN.

But forcing nations to spend more money doesn't affect game mechanics or how much the tax rates are?
It does affect how much the taxes are, by making them go up. However, it doesn't set a total cap for all taxes, so it doesn't interefere with game mechanics.

I see your point, and reluctantly agree. Causing taxes to go up or down is one thing, but forcing a universal tax cap is different. Still not rejoining the UN with Free Garza, even supposing that I was welcome to, which I doubt. I was trying to make a protest against the anti-market resolutions and slant of the UN, with my proposals, which I knew had little or no realistic chance of passing. I just didn't think they would breach game mechanics.

:mad: :headbang: I fail to see how these interfere with your calculation of taxes or with game mechanics. Is this because you are setting the tax rates? My understanding was that the member nations had some control over tax rates by means of spending measures, and I was making a point that tax cuts are no more an infringement on national sovereignty than some of the silly socialistic resolutions that the UN likes to pass. However, so be it. I am staying out of the UN permanently. That goes for all of my nations. We are staying out of the UN as a matter of protest.

There's a difference between 'UN members shall take action to reduce taxes' and 'No UN nation will be able to have taxes above x%'.

Yeah... sorry guy, that looks exactly like a proposed chenge to the game mechanics. I'm sure you heard it from all the folks who said so before I, but that would involve changing the game mechanics, and a game like this has a LOT of code, and I don't think there are many people who enjoy sifting through lines upon lines of code.

I see your point, and reluctantly agree. Causing taxes to go up or down is one thing, but forcing a universal tax cap is different. Still not rejoining the UN with Free Garza, even supposing that I was welcome to, which I doubt. I was trying to make a protest against the anti-market resolutions and slant of the UN, with my proposals, which I knew had little or no realistic chance of passing. I just didn't think they would breach game mechanics.

Seems to me you are a victim of a misunderstanding. You should have explained it better. Some moderators are willing to give you advice, but that will not work if you don't see their point. This one really looked like you were trying to fringe on gamemechanics. If I were you, I would try to see the oposition's point, rewrite it, and ask for opinions on this. I think you have a very legimit proposal, but very poorly explained.

But forcing nations to spend more money doesn't affect game mechanics or how much the tax rates are? I was making a point about the silly resolutions that frequently that require more spending by member nations, thus shoving SOCIALISM down their throats. Seems like a double standard to me. Not that it matters to me. I'll have no more truck with the UN.

Hey, I'm a Socialist nation! :mad: Any UN resolution that is passed that my country disagrees with we just ignore. It has no effect on your nation. I would ignore the tax ceiling as well.

Hey, I'm a Socialist nation! :mad: Any UN resolution that is passed that my country disagrees with we just ignore. It has no effect on your nation. I would ignore the tax ceiling as well.

Technically speaking, as a UN nation you are supposed to accept UN resolutions... if you're not willing to do so, what is the point of being in the UN?

None of my friends nations do lol. and seriously, some of the resolutions are really stupid (not the tax ceiling, but in general kinda)

Any UN resolution that is passed that my country disagrees with we just ignore. It has no effect on your nation.

Incorrect. Every UN Resolution adjusts the stats of all member nations.

I've just been very annoyed with the leftist slant of the UN, on economic matters that is. On social issues, I'm left-leaning myself. I was making a point with my resolutions. It doesn't matter as much now, since I'm not in the UN anymore. I'm not appealing, because Free Garza is not going to grovel to anyone.