NationStates Jolt Archive

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=398814


Please delete that thread, totally delete it, not just a lock, delete it. Thank you very much.

VoteEarly, dont take any thing they said to heart; they're just juvenile and unaccepting. Funny, that's what they're usually harping everyone else about...:rolleyes:

I agree. It's a good idea to get rid of the thread. Please mods, some posters in the general forum ruined discussion about possible bias in a professor's decision, often employing personal attacks. Deat the thread, please.

A brief glance through the topic indicates no rulebreaking, but it is almost 300 posts long, so I can't review it thoroughly.

It is a thread in "General", not a thread in the roleplay forums, so you may not control it except to dictate the topic of discussion at the time you post the thread. We need evidence of rulebreaking before we will lock or delete this.

Okay, I saw this right after I posted, but I had to go eat.
Please mods, some posters in the general forum ruined discussion about possible bias in a professor's decision, often employing personal attacks. Deat the thread, please.
I need links. It's a big topic.


--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Having read the thread in it's entirety, I cannot find anything actionable. However, it is very difficult to make a judgement on this with one side of the argument removed.

If you wish us to make a judgement in future, kindly do not do this - you never know, we might just come down on your side - but right now, I'm seeing no reason to come down on one side or the other over this.

~ Tsar the Mod.

I need links. It's a big topic. Okay, I'll do some digging.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The thread begins fairly innocent, with many posters being open to VoteEarly in his claim that he might be discriminated against becuase of his views. However, and partly as a result of VoteEarly's posts, it begins to turn sour and a few posters develop a mob-like attack toward him. Often it isn't flame, just hostility. But other times, I'm pretty sure it's flame:


You're just a wannabe.

(post 181 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=181))

Oh shut up already. Seriously. I don't usually say such things, but you are getting completely ridiculous...to the point that I suspect you might be kidding.

(post 223 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=223)

Don't you need to be studying right now? Your ignorance needs to be dealt with...

(post 233 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=233))

Why, do you want me to give you a class in something? I am a teacher after all...not a pretend-lawyer or a pretend-soldier...or a pretend-writer...

(post 241 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=241))



lol, true. let's all see who can be first to pick out his new nation...15 coolness points to the winner!

# 7 minutes ago: The Empire of Pathetic noobs was founded.

(post 306 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=306))


Also Whispering legs and Sinihue both threaten real life action to get him in trouble with his dean (granted, VE did open himself up to it by listing the name of his school). Those are here(Whispering Legs) (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=165) and here(Sinihue) (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=268)


Also of note is Roach-Busters insistence upon Minnesota's stupidity (page 6 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=398814&page=6&pp=30) on 30 posts-per-page, posts 124, 141, 154).

I think there's enough negative reaction from posters and enough embarassment caused to VoteEarly that this thread should be eliminated. Of course, the final decision is up to the mods.



PS. I just saw Tsaraine's post as I previewed my post to double-check the links. But I've spent 30 minutes on this, dangit! I'm gonna post!

Okay, this is specific enough to warrant an investigation.

The linked topic has been posted pending Moderator review.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

it's a pity VE deleted all the posts where he threatened to sue people, etc., but hopefully some are still preserved through other players' quotes. personally, i think the thread should be preserved as a monument to VE's charming conduct. :)

Powerhungry Chipmunks, with all due respect, you need a lesson in linking topics.

For this post, I have unmarked the checkbox "Automatically parse links in text".

Let's look at the URL of a post:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8234698&postcount=181

The first part is the domain: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/
This should not need explanation

The second part is the page: showpost.php
This is a dynamic content page that looks up a post in the Jolt forum database. The question mark after "php" indicates that input data is being supplied.

The third part is the post number: p=8234698
Every post in the Jolt forum is issued a unique identity number. This will always take you to that post as long as it hasn't been hard-deleted and you have the appropriate forum permissions to view it. The ampersand symbol "&" indicates that more input data is supplied.

The last part is the number of the post within the thread: postcount=181
For the "showpost.php" page, this is merely decoration and will not automatically redirect you to that post in the thread.

Now, let's look at the posts you linked to:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=181
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=223
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=233
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=241
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=306
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=165
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=268

Notice that all these commands link to the same unique post: Post #8235223 Thus, you have linked to the same post seven times.

Fortunately, from the "postcount" numbers, I can reconstruct which posts you actually meant, but this is a minor inconvenience for me. Please be a little more careful in the future.

Now, to resume the investigation....

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

The last part is the number of the post within the thread: postcount=181
For the "showpost.php" page, this is merely decoration and will not automatically redirect you to that post in the thread.

Notice that all these commands link to the same unique post: Post #8235223 Thus, you have linked to the same post seven times.

Hate to hijack, even mildly, but I have to ask: what's the point of the "postcount=$$$" bit on the end of the URL? Is that what makes a thread open with the "Close This Window" box?

Hate to hijack, even mildly, but I have to ask: what's the point of the "postcount=$$$" bit on the end of the URL?
So far as I can tell, it doesn't have a point. :\

Is that what makes a thread open with the "Close This Window" box?
No, that's inherent to the "showpost.php" page.

Compare the pages you get from loading these URLs:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=181
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Compare the pages you get from loading these URLs:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=181
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223

The second one doesn't show a post number... I wonder...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=18151236
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=3.1415927

That thread is an embarrasment to many posters whether they know it or not. Everyone is having a 'gleefeast' because they 'got one over' on VoteEarly. It's just plain yuck...I cant help but think people care more about having an ego trip at another poster's expense, than they do about that poster's views...I was surprised and dismayed to see posters I had thought better of 'getting off' on having upset someone.

I find VoteEarly's views to be utterly unpalatable and unsound, but I find people 'getting off' on upsetting someone else to be in poor taste, I believe that VoteEarly is earnest with regards to their posts in this thread, but at least some of the other posters, in my opinion are using the unpopularity of VoteEarly's views, as an excuse to plump their egos, and be vicious. These forums are a discussion board, and however silly or objectional someone's views may seem to any particular poster (or group of posters), surely so long as those views dont violate TOS, they should be able to have their say, without other posters behaving like this.

I suppose my contribution to this mod thread isnt helpful, but I was quite disconcerted with the way everyone was behaving after VoterEarly left. It bugs me, especially since I thought better of more than one of the posters involved. Maybe I'm over reacting (I am kind of tired), but the comments on the last couple of pages of that thread just seem to me like a bunch of people celebrating the fact that they bullied someone into withdrawing from the discussion.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8234698&postcount=181
Very minor cause for concern, but not actionable.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8234951&postcount=223
Very minor cause for concern, but not actionable.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8234984&postcount=233
Borderline flamebait.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235020&postcount=241
Very minor cause for concern, but not actionable.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235518&postcount=310
Borderline flamebait. Kradlumania: Knock it off.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8234610&postcount=165
This looks serious and could warrant an official warning for severe violation of the "malicious" clause, under normal circumstances.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8235223&postcount=268
This looks serious and could warrant an official warning for severe violation of the "malicious" clause, under normal circumstances.

The circumstances, however, are not normal. Now, I can only see half the story, here, because VoteEarly has conveniently eliminated evidence of his own conduct. This casts severe suspicion on VoteEarly's complaint, as it looks like he baited "Sinuhue" and "Whispering Legs" into rulebreaking and subtly trying to use the Moderators as a weapon.

Now, I can't draw a firm conclusion one way or the other. Therefore, no Moderator action will be taken. As the topic seems to have degenerated, it will remain locked.

"Sinuhue" and "Whispering Legs": Check your telegram boxes in about 10 minutes.

...

This complaint is related to Bottle and Roach-Busters:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8234418&postcount=124
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8234503&postcount=141
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8234564&postcount=154
Roach-Busters: Official Warning - Flamebait

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

I agree with Bottle on this. The accusations of a "mob-like" attack on VoteEarly are blown out of proportion. And a lot of people did genuinely critique VoteEarly's writing, and try to talk to him about the social disadvantages of engaging in open racism. I think that where things really started to go downhill was when Whispering Legs made a joke about tape-recording a conversation with VoteEarly's dean (in response to VoteEarly's post about secretly recording his meeting with his professor, and VoteEarly then threatened to sue him for, well, a bunch of things. The only ones I really remember were stalking, emotional trauma, and defamation of character.

Man, I wish I'd saved some of his posts. Highlights include VoteEarly bragging about all the lawyers in his family, asking if Whispering Legs had $20,000 dollars to spend defending himself in court (because that's how much VoteEarly had to sue him with), and saying something along the lines of "In my family, if you cross us, we don't come over and smash your face in. We destroy you legally." I'm paraphrasing there, but that was the general jist of it.

In any case, once it was pointed out that VoteEarly had posted the name of his university and enough incidental detail about himself that some readers might be able to actually identify the professor he was accusing of racism and political bias, which might ironically enough expose him to legal liability, that's when he started deleting posts and asking for the thread to be removed.

That wouldn't have even been worth mentioning, had it not been for VoteEarly's legal threats against other posters. Ordinarily, I would have chalked up the whole episode as a case of a naive kid getting in over his head, but I've got no sympathy for people who threaten to use the legal system just to push their own little vendettas. As far as I'm concerned, VoteEarly knew what he was doing when he dragged the lawyer noise into it, and if someone feels like letting his university know he's been publicly accusing one of its professors of discriminating against him due to race or political opinion, they're well within their rights to do so. He brought it on himself. If there's really a good reason to delete the thead, fine, but I don't think that deleting it just to let VoteEarly cover his tracks is such a good idea.

The circumstances, however, are not normal. Now, I can only see half the story, here, because VoteEarly has conveniently eliminated evidence of his own conduct. This casts severe suspicion on VoteEarly's complaint, as it looks like he baited "Sinuhue" and "Whispering Legs" into rulebreaking and subtly trying to use the Moderators as a weapon.

...


I did that because I suddenly realized with their threats, that they could figure out who I was from the information I posted, if they were really good detectives that is.

I did that because I suddenly realized with their threats, that they could figure out who I was from the information I posted, if they were really good detectives that is.
If this is a concern, then delete your posts, don't edit them. Deletion leaves them visible to Moderators only.

As the matter stands, I do not want people to think that they can ambush other NationStates players by deleting their own posts and then filing a complaint.

The NationStates Terms and Conditions do prohibit the posting of material that invades the privacy of a third party, but the only personal information about yourself was posted by yourself.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

They're continuing it still.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8238530&postcount=73

I'm starting to get nervous here that they're really going to try something in RL, and I think it may even be violent, they seem to me to be vindictive and spiteful types.




Sorry, I didn't know that about deleting versus editing, I was in a hurry and just did the first thing that came to mind.

VoteEarly and Sinuhue: You are now both under Moderator order NOT to reply to each others posts. Given your respective histories, violation of this order will result in a forumban.

Do I make myself clear?

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

VoteEarly and Sinuhue: You are now both under Moderator order NOT to reply to each others posts. Given your respective histories, violation of this order will result in a forumban.

Do I make myself clear?

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation


Understood.

If I start a thread, and she's replying to another guy's posts in the thread, is that allowed?

If I start a thread, and she's replying to another guy's posts in the thread, is that allowed?
Yes.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

The circumstances, however, are not normal. Now, I can only see half the story, here, because VoteEarly has conveniently eliminated evidence of his own conduct. This casts severe suspicion on VoteEarly's complaint, as it looks like he baited "Sinuhue" and "Whispering Legs" into rulebreaking and subtly trying to use the Moderators as a weapon.



I would like to say, since this seems to relate to a TG I got, that of course I eliminated all the posts, they contained personal information which I was foolish for putting up to begin with. After I start getting threats, there is no reason to leave the info up there for more people to see and possibly issue threats.

To be fair, I didn't ask action be taken against the posters, I just asked the whole thread be deleted. Thus I don't see how I was trying to use mods as a weapon.

If somebody said they were going to fax things to other people to get you into possible trouble and at the very least, cause headaches against you, wouldn't it be wise to get rid of whatever they were going to fax before they could? That is why I edited everything to nothing. I made no accusations of flames or flame baits against them, I just edited everything and then asked it all be deleted.

Powerhungry Chipmunks, with all due respect, you need a lesson in linking topics.

-snip-



Ack! I had no idea about this, and am incredibly sorry. Yeah, I took one hyperlink and changed the post number at the end to reflect the post I was trying to direct you to. I didn't realize more needed to be customized than that.

I'll definitely change my habits for future hyperlinks. Actually, I think I'll just link pages and list the posts I wish to draw attention to. That seems to serve a bit better.

Again, I'm incredibly sorry. Argh, I'm really mad at myself now--thinking I was doing a service when really I was just further tying up mod time to unravel my mess...Sorry.

Borderline flamebait. Kradlumania: Knock it off.


I apologise. In my defence, I was answering a question posted on the thread, and if you check the records that is a cut and paste from The West Pacific of an actual new nation.

I think if VoteEarly is allowed to complain then I should complain about this statement, which is a totally baseless accusation against participants in the thread:


I'm starting to get nervous here that they're really going to try something in RL, and I think it may even be violent, they seem to me to be vindictive and spiteful types.

I've moved it to the secret Moderator forum that doesn't exist, at leaast as a temporary measure. I'll discuss with other Mods when I have time.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation