NationStates Jolt Archive

Sarcodina recently was ejected from the UN because of Multis. It is not true that its controller has two UN nations, but he (I) think I know why you thought so.
I think it is because I use (beside the main computer I have) a school computer sometimes to check up. Also another possibility, I have a brother who uses another computer in my house with another internet connection (that is a different internet service and different (computer) code to my knowledge) who has a nation I do not control in the UN.

Please Reply. ¡My citizens are going crazy!

Seluecia and The Knights Templar are the same person to my knowledge (an acquaitance.) I am not them though.

Really I am not check your code. I have checked on the same computer (school) as The Knights Templar, so I am correct in my assumption. The computer I mainly use is not used by him...

If there are two UN nations on the same computer/same network (definitely if they're on the same IP adress) it becomes very difficult for us to tell whether or not they're actually different in any way.

It sounds to me as if the presence of your brother's nation in the UN is what's caused this. Unfortunately, there's no way for us to verify that you're telling the truth in this - while I'm not necessarily saying you're lying, it is quite impossible for us to tell, and thus we cannot readmit your nation to the UN.

If this is the first time something like this has happened to you, then you should be able to create a new nation and enter it in the UN - but only one. You'll want to talk to your brother about that.

So I'm very sorry, but that's the only thing you can do.

~ Tsar the Mod.

You did not ban my brother though. You have my school IP code. Please check mine that I am currently using.

Oh? Please be patient, and I'll find a Game Moderator to adress this situation.

~ Tsar the Mod.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

Wait did you kick out 'Serbiak' from the UN?

I think I am just going to re-apply to the UN. Is that fine?

UN Multi ('seluecia', 'the_knight_templars', 'serbiak', 'sarcondina')

You may apply to the UN with another nation.

If there are two UN nations on the same computer/same network (definitely if they're on the same IP adress) it becomes very difficult for us to tell whether or not they're actually different in any way.

It sounds to me as if the presence of your brother's nation in the UN is what's caused this. Unfortunately, there's no way for us to verify that you're telling the truth in this - while I'm not necessarily saying you're lying, it is quite impossible for us to tell, and thus we cannot readmit your nation to the UN.

If this is the first time something like this has happened to you, then you should be able to create a new nation and enter it in the UN - but only one. You'll want to talk to your brother about that.

So I'm very sorry, but that's the only thing you can do.

~ Tsar the Mod.

Emphasis mine. You cannot reapply with the one that got booted out. You can create a new nation and apply, but I would recommend waiting 24 hours at least before doing so, as several mods have indicated that is the time period required for the updates and all to go through properly. If you don't apply some patience and wait, you run the risk of your new nation being booted for multi infractions as well, just because of how the system reads the information at hand.

UN Multi ('seluecia', 'the_knight_templars', 'serbiak', 'sarcondina')

These nations don't have the same IP. It was because of a school IP that was shared. Please review the current IPs used and see Sarcodina is seperate in its IP.

You seem to be missing the point that has been repeatedly made here.

The fact that they have turned up on a multi scan is not the mod's problem. It's yours. If you don't want to run the risk of sharing an IP with someone else, be it through school or work or what have you, don't log that nation in on those computers. You can go on til you're blue in the face on this one - I've yet to see them reverse a decision just based on 'but I swear we're not multi-ing even though your scans show we are'.

Best of luck with it, but ... there you have it.

I agree DLN but I see it not that helpful if I just create a new nation and join the UN. As currenty IP scans will show Sarcodina is the lone one my IP (Serbiak as I told the mods was possibly on it...which it turned out to be true...but I think it unfair to further blame me for bringing up a possible problem.) I wish to maintain Sarcodina and seeing it is my first warning, I'd like to ask still for the Mods to let me back in the UN.

The Pleading Former Delegacy of Sarcodina

I agree DLN but I see it not that helpful if I just create a new nation and join the UN. As currenty IP scans will show Sarcodina is the lone one my IP (Serbiak as I told the mods was possibly on it...which it turned out to be true...but I think it unfair to further blame me for bringing up a possible problem.) I wish to maintain Sarcodina and seeing it is my first warning, I'd like to ask still for the Mods to let me back in the UN.

The Pleading Former Delegacy of Sarcodina

No. We can't start making exceptions otherwise everyone else will start demanding it.
This goes for everyone: if you're worried about your UN nation, don't log into it from public internet connections!

All right Myrth, I will stop my pleas. Please cancel Sarcodina's UN reentrance if it goes through accidentally.

I think in the future (for modifying purposes) each player should have a home IP, so one can check up on NS on other computeres without fear.
I think this would cut down on situations like the one I am in. This will be a huge help to people who have work or school (which is hopefully the majority of people playing :))...

Has then been mention before?

I am just going to reply to myself, so I can be answered (before I am put into thread oblivion.)

...each player should have a home IP, so one can check up on NS on other computeres without fear.

I think you Sarcodina have a great idea, well done.

Sarcodina

I think in the future (for modifying purposes) each player should have a home IP, so one can check up on NS on other computeres without fear.
What do you mean by that?
If you use NS at home, it's being logged under your home IP. Otherwise, it's not.
Or are you trying to say something different?

All right Myrth, I will stop my pleas. Please cancel Sarcodina's UN reentrance if it goes through accidentally.

I think in the future (for modifying purposes) each player should have a home IP, so one can check up on NS on other computeres without fear.
I think this would cut down on situations like the one I am in. This will be a huge help to people who have work or school (which is hopefully the majority of people playing :))...

Has then been mention before?

Not every player uses a home computer to log into NationStates. I know of a few people who log on at work/school only.

If you're proposing that someone should be able to choose an IP as their 'home' IP address, then there are many ways at getting around such a thing. Someone can easily create two separate nations, make each IP for that nation their 'home' IP address, and have UN-Multis.

Someone can easily create two separate nations, make each IP for that nation their 'home' IP address, and have UN-Multis.

Good Point but other than in spirit having two UN nations in two IP addresses is legal now (can't be detected.)

If you use NS at home, it's being logged under your home IP. Otherwise, it's not.

Yes, but if you want to check up on work or school than your screwed. If you have one IP, it would make it easier to not have UN multis (because the IP would be all ready taken) and let people check up on work/school thus become more involved. I say its a win-win :).

Good Point but other than in spirit having two UN nations in two IP addresses is legal now (can't be detected.)
Hmm?
It's very easy to detect two UN nations on one IP, nations get ejected for it all the time.

EDIT: Whoops, I'm an idiot. I misread the quote.
Sorry about that...

Hmm?
It's very easy to detect two UN nations on one IP, nations get ejected for it all the time.

Good Point but other than in spirit having two UN nations in two IP addresses is legal now (can't be detected.)

But this is incorrect. It's not legal, and we have other methods of linking nations.

I think the point, Myrth, is not what one can get away with but the unfairness to those using public computers, which is definitely a large number on NS. Sarcodina is showing a way to accomodate this, not pointing at a flaw in your system. More might get done if his advice is taken rather than . . . well, it just seems like a good idea to me.

I originally created Seluecia, and while it now is operated by a different person, I realize even this situation is a bit to hard for you braniacs to crack, so I can accept my ban, as I broke some rules on technicality. But I don't think you're considering that, by your rules, about 1700 people are going to be inable to log in at NS because of "public domains" or whatever. Tha's just at my school alone, not to mention the millions across the world, plus libraries, offices, labs, . . . NS inarguable draws largely from school and workplaces, and there is no doubt in my mind that if your were able to create all that is NS, in it's glory, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to fix this problem. I admit my guilt(kind of. Well, really), but I can vouch for Sarcodina, as even by SIMPLE LOGIC its obvious their not the same person. If I heard correctly, Serbiak wasn't even banned until Sarcodina alerted you himself. Come on, people. That sort of reasoning isn't fair, and you can do better. What would be the problem with Sarc's IP plan?

Your sarcastic comments toward the Moderators is not going to help you convince them to listen. Ultimately it's very simple. If your only access is via a public terminal or you know you're going to be sharing your IP with someone, don't participate in the UN. Save yourself (and the Mods) a lot of trouble and deny yourself this "inalienable right" by waiting until such time as you can connect independently. The Mods have plenty to do without researching every nation connecting through a common IP.

I apologize for my large mouthed friend.

But this is incorrect. It's not legal, and we have other methods of linking nations.
I am not trying to support questionable behavior.
I am just saying it is hard to detect one person at two IPs who is smart about it (I never did this but it is to my knowledge possible.)

A few points:
1) With this IP code, the mods would not have to recheck computers all the time because once someone applied to the UN with an IP then any further attempts would be detected right away.
2) It would enhance the often stated (based on more anecdotes not facts but still is largely convincing) drop in use of NS. Main beneficaries: workers, students, people who vacation/leave home for more than 24 hr period...etc.
3) This would create less clean up time. Mr. X makes 10 UN nations, kicks everyone out, goes crazy...mods need to clean up. With Sarcodinan Plan, Mr.X is denied 2nd UN nation, no clean up...no need even for manual telegram if system is automatic.
4) Also give good data on amount of indivual computers used on NS (so we can figure percentage of puppets etc.)...not really an essential point, just a point.

How do you propose (in response to #3) that the moderators are able to detect the UN multi's? If Mr. X were to use a different computer to create this UN nation, say one of his friends computers, that he's never used before, then the moderators have no way of determining that Mr. X was behind it. There's no way of telling these things in advance.

Mr. X were to use a different computer to create this UN nation, say one of his friends computers, that he's never used before, then the moderators have no way of determining that Mr. X was behind it.
How can the mods detect it now? If people have access to two computers (like a friend's) they can make two nations so long as you don't go on two at one computer.

How can the mods detect it now?
They don't, if he only logs in at another place. However, your idea would allow someone to simply create a nation elsewhere, and then use it at home as a multi, is what I believe Euroslavia was trying to say.

Interesting point Neo-Anarchists, but I think it will be a minimal problem.
A possible solution would be the home IP must be used every 28 day period or so.

Interesting point Neo-Anarchists, but I think it will be a minimal problem.
A possible solution would be the home IP must be used every 28 day period or so.

With that suggestion, I could go over to my friends house, create a nation and join the UN, and then use it on my own computer, but then go back to my friends house, as long as its within the 28 day time limit, and log in. It would be too easy to take advantage of that situation.

Look, you realise the Mods are not going to give away any secrets on how they detect UN Multis, right? You can theorise all you like, but they're not going to give people the means to bypass their detection methods.

I really don't think my plan would increase illegal activity. It needs to be fine tuned (decided how long away) etc. but in the end it would cut down multis and problems with public computers.