NationStates Jolt Archive

The DEN HQ discovered that Thorien was an incompetent trooper and a spy on top of that. To this end, per usual raider solidarity, an annoucement was made publically where he was stripped from his ranks and his IP published for all to view.

The moderator then deleted my nation, because he claimed posting the IP was something illegal. Upon reading the FAQ, nothing stated that this is illegal. I'm an administrator at The DEN HQ, and I made no vows to keep his IP anonymous, nor would any sane defender or invader administrator. I'm sure ANY honest defender could confirm IP swapping is common and carried out on an almost daily basis to track down spies, and also, IP's exchanged between defender or raider organisations to ban IP's we know belong to spies. IP's are close to being public in NationStates.

My deletion was unwarranted. If I was deleted for sharing an IP address, then admit it, all defenders and raiders admins alikes should be deleted. I remember once, at the old ADN boards, Moldavi posted the IP of Nucleo because of his bad behaviour at the NPO boards for example. I don't know wether the moderator in question is new to the whole concept of defending/invading and the community that rules them, but he basically insinuated that IP swapping was illegal and claimed I should "provide proof" if I was to back up my claims that defenders were IP swapping constantly.

IP swapping among admins of offsite boards is outside our jurisdiction, and as such, we can take no action. IP swapping in public on our boards is not premitted.

And, for the record, I am the Moderator who handled this case. Also for the record, I would like to ask that you continue dialogue here as opposed to the Getting Help Page.

IP swapping in public on our boards is not premitted.

Since when exactly?

Lol, I always thought that IPs are private. I never shared any of them. I always thought that it was none of my business.
You must understand this is not your site, and that you are no admin here. There is a whole complete different set of rules here. I would never come on your site, if I knew that you shared IP adresses with everybody who wants to know.

If you've been registered at any major org's boards in NationStates, believe me, your IP is no longer private. I believe you're registered at the Meritocracy boards no? Or was it the PRP boards? Then believe me, a heck of others know it.

Also, I read the Glossary of Forbidden Actions. Publishing an IP address is not on it. When sAnd it seems a moderator has claimed

"I didn't know it [IP swapping] was going on".

Is that true? Do moderators don't know this?

If you've been registered at any major org's boards in NationStates, believe me, your IP is no longer private. I believe you're registered at the Meritocracy boards no? Or was it the PRP boards? Then believe me, a heck of others know it.

I am known by both of them, and quite few more. They may be swapping my IP, but I better not find out about it. Personally, I don't care who has my IP. Sometimes it is possible to track someone's homeadress with it. That is why it shouldn't be shared. Those things are shared all over the internet, but it doesn't mean we should allow it.?! An IP is private, period!

Hm, don't worry then. Defenders have your IP, ( not only the ones were you're registered ) and *might* have mine, but I've done everything in my power to prevent this from happening. So I *think* I'm safe. :)

IP swapping is the basic tenent of contra-espionnage in NationStates. IP's are certainly not private in NationStates - I enjoy seeing that written by a well known invader! Actually, an IP can't track your home address. Country and City, yes, but home address, naaaah.

I want my nation ressurected. I've broken no game rules. And if I have, where are these rules?

I would like to ask that you continue dialogue here as opposed to the Getting Help Page.

Emphasis mine.

Melkor asked Lost Grippsholm to keep it here in moderation.

If you've been registered at any major org's boards in NationStates, believe me, your IP is no longer private. I believe you're registered at the Meritocracy boards no? Or was it the PRP boards? Then believe me, a heck of others know it.

True, but boards other than NationStates are out of their jurisdiction. The moderators here don't have the same rules as the moderators of PRP or Meritocracy forums. Each separate forum has a separate way of functioning and keeping itself the most efficient possible.


“Each Internet user broadcasts an IP address, or "Internet Address"
and can be used to trace your location and personal information.”

“Unscrupulous marketers and spammers who know your IP address can send
you unwanted targeted ads and SPAM. Even worse, malicious hackers and
snoops can track your surfing habits and make you a victim of identity
theft."

I'm sure in most cases, with majority of forums, IP addresses aren't allowed to be given to random people. Doing so can put you at a huge risk of being hacked, and your identity stolen. Usually, there shouldn't be a rule on a thread telling you that you can't do so. It's implied, because in any case, it is harmful to that user.

Here are some more things that can be done, when an IP address is discovered: http://www.windowsecurity.com/articles/Common_Attacks.html

If it's not listed as being against the rules, I don't see why someone was punished for it. O_o

I agree. It doesnt say that you cant do it. I think it should be resurected

You are not being hanged for stealing a horse from a common, but so that none other may steal horses from commons.

No rule mentions that IP sharing is against the rules, and it certainly isn't illegal. I think the point has been made; everyone knows that this "rule" will be enforced from now on, but it would probably be best to post the rule first and nuke the crap out later. No harm can result in reinstating Grippsholm now; he will not so blatantly post IPs in RMBs anymore, but, for future's sake, post the rule!

No rule mentions that IP sharing is against the rules, and it certainly isn't illegal. I think the point has been made; everyone knows that this "rule" will be enforced from now on, but it would probably be best to post the rule first and nuke the crap out later. No harm can result in reinstating Grippsholm now; he will not so blatantly post IPs in RMBs anymore, but, for future's sake, post the rule!

It really shouldn't be a rule that has to be posted. Putting someone elses' computer in danger of being hacked is an implied rule at most websites anyways and shouldn't have to be enforced. An example would be if flaming wasn't actually enforced as a rule, its quite obvious that making fun of someone or insulting their personal opinions/life is against the rules, and shouldn't be allowed anyways. There's a certain degree of common sense that each person should have.

I'll get right back to you on this. A few things need to be taken care of quickly before I can finalize things, so hold tight, ok?

it may not be stated, and i probably would have done it to but it does seem in bad taste

ART. 134. GENERAL ARTICLE

Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.
ok now change "the armed forces" to "nationstates", "court-martial" to "mod-action", and all other uses of the word "court" to "mod"

I'll get right back to you on this. A few things need to be taken care of quickly before I can finalize things, so hold tight, ok?

Thanks.

To the others supporting me, thanks a lot. Good to see some honorable people, even though we don't necessarily fight on the same side on the battlefield.

IP's are not private, as an admin of my board, I made no vow to keep it secret and no rules stated in the FAQ or Glossary stated that I couldn't do this. According to the moderator whom deleted me, he said it was the first time he saw somebody post another one's IP. Considering we're in NationStates, where IP sharing and publishing is the basic tenent of contra-espionnage, I was quite surprised.

Since there was no way of me possibly knowing this action was illegal, I think giving me a warning to not do so again before deleting me would have been appropriate. Making up the rule on site and deleting me for the rule that was just made up and not written anywhere is simply not fair.

*notes that IPs can be gathered easily on IRC and implicitly on NSwiki by those who don't bother to log in*

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8119720&postcount=15

It really shouldn't be a rule that has to be posted. Putting someone elses' computer in danger of being hacked is an implied rule at most websites anyways and shouldn't have to be enforced. An example would be if flaming wasn't actually enforced as a rule, its quite obvious that making fun of someone or insulting their personal opinions/life is against the rules, and shouldn't be allowed anyways. There's a certain degree of common sense that each person should have.

You seem to be rather uneducated about what exactly an IP address is for. Simply having someone else know yours does not put you at a significantly greater risk of being hacked. If it did, anyone who went on IRC or ran a server for any sort of multiplayer game would be hacked rather often, yet somehow this doesn't happen.

I suggest you read up on ports and what they are for.

You seem to be rather uneducated about what exactly an IP address is for. Simply having someone else know yours does not put you at a significantly greater risk of being hacked. If it did, anyone who went on IRC or ran a server for any sort of multiplayer game would be hacked rather often, yet somehow this doesn't happen.

I suggest you read up on ports and what they are for.

I'm not saying that there is a significantly greater risk of being hacked, all I'm saying is that the possibility exists, if the hacker is experienced enough.

right just for all the none mods to know this

a) yes you can have your home address tracked from your IP address

b) from what i've heard its actually illegal in some places to tell someone someelses ip address

c) if a hacker is experienced enough and has you ip address and you have lax security on your pc then you may aswell kiss goodbye to the installation on your pc, so i'm not suprised you got deleted for that (no offence)

I'll get right back to you on this. A few things need to be taken care of quickly before I can finalize things, so hold tight, ok?

Salusa is looking into this situation; please wait until he comes to a conclusion.

~ Tsar the Mod.