NationStates Jolt Archive

Greetings.

I'm contacting this forum on behalf of a long-time player in this game whose nation was deleted for no reason whatsoever.

This nation was accused by the region's delegate ("Pixiedance" of The North Pacific) of using scripts to send endorsement requests (a practice that "Pixiedance" uses to maintain power). Accusations to this affect were posted in HQ for that region as well as off-HQ forums.

As an eye witness to this, "Romanoffia" did not do any such thing.

In RL, Romanoffia is a noted newspaper writer who reports on Internet Technology. He was attracted to this game because of it's glowing reviews. He has engaged in this game for about one year or more. Yet, his nation was deleted without explanation and only nasty HQ posts and off-HQ forum posts claiming responsibility for getting the moderators to delete "Romanoffia".

Needless to say, "Romanoffia" has asked me to relate this information to the moderators as his nation had been deleted along with is couple of hundred endorsements. I might also add that this situation doesn't add to "Romanoffia's" opinion of the way the rules are enforces/not enforced. Neither does it reflect well that a 'nation' is deleted without just cause of any proof.

While it is well within the right of the moderators to arbitrarily delete a nation for totally arbitrary reason, it is also within the rights of newspaper reporters to give bad reviews for arbitrary, and not so arbitraty reason.

So, if the moderators will find it within their purvey and kindness, please explaing to me (I shall pass it on to "Romanoffia") or respond directly to danandew "at" alltel.net who is the owner of "Romanoffia" as to why his nation was deleted.

He would very much appreciate a chance to defend himself against any and all accusations of violating rules. That is unless this is Abu-Grabh prison and he must wear women's underwear on his head in humiliation.

I'd like to also ask this question, to clear up any confusions and misconceptions that people have about the situation in TNP right now.

Rather than accusing anyone and everyone under the sun, the definitive reason would be nice. :)

Yes, I'd also like to know the reason..

I'm contacting this forum on behalf of a long-time player in this game whose nation was deleted for no reason whatsoever.No, there's always a reason.

In RL, Romanoffia is a noted newspaper writer[...]No offense to you or Romanoffia, but this is utterly irrelevant.

I might also add that this situation doesn't add to "Romanoffia's" opinion of the way the rules are enforces/not enforced. Neither does it reflect well that a 'nation' is deleted without just cause of any proof.Since you are requesting proof from us, perhaps you should hold judgment on said proof until you've actually seen it, as opposed to assuming it doesn't exist.

While it is well within the right of the moderators to arbitrarily delete a nation for totally arbitrary reason, it is also within the rights of newspaper reporters to give bad reviews for arbitrary, and not so arbitraty reason.Is this a threat?

So, if the moderators will find it within their purvey and kindness, please explaing to me (I shall pass it on to "Romanoffia") or respond directly to danandew "at" alltel.net who is the owner of "Romanoffia" as to why his nation was deleted.Ah, now that the threats, accusations, and thinly veiling insults are out of the way, you admit that you don't know why he was deleted, and are simply assuming that it was done with no reason.

Boy, I feel all warm, fuzzy and helpful.

He would very much appreciate a chance to defend himself against any and all accusations of violating rules. That is unless this is Abu-Grabh prison and he must wear women's underwear on his head in humiliation.And you end with more weak insults.

Seriously, is this a request for information, or just a rant? Granted, I'm running on about two hours of sleep here, but this strikes me as an almost textbook example of how not to ask for help and/or clarification.

But, alas, I'm supposed to help, so... here we go.


Warned: abusive posts in region 'the_north_pacific' with abusive puppet 'the_nut-less_wonder' (21 JUL 04) && GORT for automatic-endorsement scripting (01 FEB 05)

The abusive post is really just gravy, truth be told. The illegal scripting is generally sufficient to warrent a deletion. Scripting violations are usually verified by a Game Administrator.

I see no reason to overrule the Mod who deleted 'Romanoffia'.

I don't get it, what'd he do?

seems he used a script to endorse other players, which isn't legal, as was posted here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=5812823&postcount=59)

The abusive post is really just gravy, truth be told. The illegal scripting is generally sufficient to warrent a deletion. Scripting violations are usually verified by a Game Administrator.

I see no reason to overrule the Mod who deleted 'Romanoffia'.

Well, it is illegal to use a script to hand out/retract endorsements, so thank you for that clear response.

One thing that leaves me wondering though is that if Romanoffia was using a script, how come his coverage of endorsed nations was so imperfect? I check stuff like that (using a script, no less :p) and by Jan 31 he had endorsed 1121 of 1288 UN nations. Some of the nations skipped have been in the region a long time too, not something I'd expect a script to miss. But hey, if Salusa said it is so, then I'm convinced it truly is so.


Additional note: my own coverage of endo's given is almost 100%, because I do use a script to find out which nations I have not yet endorsed and then proceed to endorse them manually. Actually, my method of manually handing out endo's is such that I have priorly filed a mod report on it myself to avoid it being confused with a script :p

Ballotonia

For the record, the player controlling Pixiedance does not use scripts. Knowledge of such things is beyond me. :)

As to the statement above, I believe the tactic was to endorse new UN nations that entered the region, so UN nations already in the region would have to be endorsed the regular way, so his coverage was incomplete.

Originally Posted by The Most Glorious Hack
The abusive post is really just gravy, truth be told. The illegal scripting is generally sufficient to warrent a deletion. Scripting violations are usually verified by a Game Administrator.

I see no reason to overrule the Mod who deleted 'Romanoffia'.

That's utter bull. I did no scripting. I did not make an abusive post and anyone who claims I did is a liar.

So, there you go mods, I, Romanoffia responded. Now, you tell me. What did I do other than challenge your boy Moldavi/Pixiedance? Please tell me.

You all are obviously in line with Cathyy and Moldavi as to permitting someone to simply turn over ownership to another person, along with the UN Delegate seat.

So, since I have nothing to lose, let me give you all a piece of my mind:

You're acts of favoritism to certain nations has wrecked this game and everyone knows it.

Your bending of and arbitrary creation of rules to benefit those who violate the rules, mainly Moldavi/Pixiedance and, let us never forget Great Bight has sent this game right down the toilet.

Your actions and obfuscation in this matter lends very little credence to the purpose of the game site: To sell Mr. Barry's books.

I think I shall forward that to Mr. Barry.

Thank you for your obtuse attitudes.

Regards

Romanoffia, aka Romanoffia II


P.S.: Now be ture to your colors, Mods, and delete Romanoffia II because I dare asked for justice and for you to tell the truth. I know you will.

*shakes head*

*shakes head*

And there's nothing but a dry rattling sound.

C'mon. Please give an explanation why Romanoffia was deleted. Everyone knows it's because I pointed out the arbitrary and capricious rule making by Mods.

Surely, there is no justice in NationStates.

what ruling?

passing on nations isn't illegal, it's just the first time it has happenend to a pacific delegate nation. as long as neither of them has more than one un, it's all legal as far as i can tell..

now, maybe if you'd calm down, you could talk about this with a game admin, insulting people here helps no one.

of course, this is just the opinion of a little dutch girl, so you can all ignore it and go back yelling now..

You know, this whole uproar in the North Pacific could have been prevented weeks ago had the game mods not sanctioned the transfer of a UN delegate nation (in a feeder region, no less) as was done three times between the party that had owned it, and the player who now owns it. (A to B, B to A, A to B again)
Had the delegate nation been required to give up the endorsements (even if it meant transferring the delegate nation to another region for a period of time to wipe out the endorsements, it might have avoided a lot of the rancor that has been generated in that region.
Since nations are supposed to grant endorsements as a matter of respect to other nations within their region, allowing a transfer of a UN delegate nation between players of a delegate nation in a feeder region clearly goes against the spirit of the endorsement procedure, if nothing else. I strongly urge the moderators to revisit this judgment at the earliest possible time, since it seems to me this is the primary source of the current problems the moderators are having in the North Pacific.

You know, this whole uproar in the North Pacific could have been prevented weeks ago had the game mods not sanctioned the transfer of a UN delegate nation (in a feeder region, no less) as was done three times between the party that had owned it, and the player who now owns it.
Had the delegate nation been required to give up the endorsements (even if it meant transferring the delegate nation to another region for a period of time to wipr out the endorsements, it might have avoided a lot of the rancor that has been generated in that region.
Since nations are supposed to grant endorsements as a matter of respect to other nations within their region, allowing a transfer of a UN delegate nation between players of a delegate nation in a feeder region clearly goes against the spirit of the endorsement procedure, if nothing else. I strongly urge the moderators to revisit this judgment at the earliest possible time, since it seems to me this is the primary source of the current problems the moderators are having in the North Pacific.

It didn't need to be sanctioned. If it hadn't of been brought to our attention, we still wouldn't have cared. Anyone can give their nation to another player provided there remains only one UN nation per player. Being a delegate or a founder makes no difference.

It didn't need to be sanctioned. If it hadn't of been brought to our attention, we still wouldn't have cared. Anyone can give their nation to another player provided there remains only one UN nation per player. Being a delegate or a founder makes no difference.
My associate is correct. Sharing nations per se is not illegal* (so long as UN multying does not result), nor is it going to become illegal.

* ...though if you're sharing with a rulebreaker, then you're taking a very big chance.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

Kindly keep your flames out of the moderation forum.

And there's nothing but a dry rattling sound.

C'mon. Please give an explanation why Romanoffia was deleted. Everyone knows it's because I pointed out the arbitrary and capricious rule making by Mods.

Surely, there is no justice in NationStates.


http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8096962&postcount=4

In case you missed it earlier, there is your explanation.

Originally Posted by The Mod Centre
Warned: abusive posts in region 'the_north_pacific' with abusive puppet 'the_nut-less_wonder' (21 JUL 04) && GORT for automatic-endorsement scripting (01 FEB 05)

Automatic scripting? Automatic scripting? I did no such thing. Go look at the logs for Nationstates.net. Look at the time base that I posted endorsement requests. I did not use any automatic script or any script of any kind whatsoever.

If you actually took the time to look at the logs you would see that I spent 5 days at about 3 hours per day manually sending endorsement requests. Want to know how I did it? Here's how.

I typed up an endorsement request.

I then copied my endorsement request to my clip board by 'contr+c'.

I then contacted the nations and TQ'd them.

I then moved on to the next nation.


If a simple text cut & paste is a form of scripting, then every single person in this game who has ever tried to become a UN Delegate is guilty of 'scripting'. This included Moldavi/Pixiedance. If everyone who every cut & pasted a message, even as a quote, is by that logic guilty of 'scripting'.

I was unaware that manually entered TQ's is a form of scripting.

Once again, check you logs and see how many days and hours it took me to manually send those endorsement requests, one by one, and you tell me that I used a script to do it. Don't you think that if I used a script I could have done it in about 10 seconds instead of 5 days?

Please forgive me for feeling a bit resentful at having my nation deleted for a manual cut and paste of text in TQ's. I also feel resentful of the fact that Moldavi/Pixiedance did exactly the same thing I did in his massive 'endorsement swapping' campaign in order to keep his endorsement count up. Why is he not also guilty of 'scripting'?

Again, I did not use any scripting whatsoever. I manually sent those endorsement requests one by one and spent many, many hours doing it. Check the logs and see.

If I am guilty of anything it's trying to play the game by the rules and if trying to play the game by the rules is an offense worthy of deletion, then I guess I'll have to be proud to have been deleted for trying to play by the rules.

If you reconsider your decision, I will be grateful for you understanding. If not, then I will have to be satisfied with whatever means by which you arrived at that decision.

Please look at the logs and see how many days it took me to manually send those endorsement requests and then tell me that I used a script to do it.

All I ask for is a fair shake and that you consider the possibility that your decision may have been an error.

Regards,

R

I'm looking into this.

Thank you very much. I am grateful for your reconsideration on this matter.

Best regards,

Romanoffia

Wow... this is getting strange.

By the way, I don't think the mods have ever been over-ruled.

Wow... this is getting strange.

By the way, I don't think the mods have ever been over-ruled.

There is always 1st time

Wow... this is getting strange.

By the way, I don't think the mods have ever been over-ruled.


sure they have.

As the original owner of Pixiedance, I'd like to make it clear that, despite allegations to the contrary, I've never used scripts. I don't know how to!

And saying that I must have done 'because how else could you get 700 endorsements' is not exactly a good argument.

Thanks
Cathyy
Former Pixiedance

As the original owner of Pixiedance, I'd like to make it clear that, despite allegations to the contrary, I've never used scripts. I don't know how to!

And saying that I must have done 'because how else could you get 700 endorsements' is not exactly a good argument.
You do know that the mods can see more than just the players, correct?
They most likely have a good reason to believe that there was a script used.
SalusaSecundus is looking into this matter, either way, I believe.

Apologies if I was not clear. Romanoffia has tried to suggest (presumably as part of some kind of defense!) that the owners of Pixieance must have cheated to get endorsements by using scripts - simpy on the basis of having got so many.

I'm well aware that the mods would have ways of checking such matters (though I'm no techy!!).

I just wanted to say it here, ie that I have not used them, as I feel I am being accused of things by Romanoffia that are simply not true.

Apologies if I was not clear. Romanoffia has tried to suggest (presumably as part of some kind of defense!) that the owners of Pixieance must have cheated to get endorsements by using scripts - simpy on the basis of having got so many.

I'm well aware that the mods would have ways of checking such matters (though I'm no techy!!).

I just wanted to say it here, ie that I have not used them, as I feel I am being accused of things by Romanoffia that are simply not true.


And I was deleted on a presumption of 'scripting' when the NationStates logs will prove my innocence.

You know, I jumped to a stupid conclusion that the Mods were biased because I thought that they might have actually had the time to verify a 'scripting' complaint by looking at the logs. So, I made the mistake of making a snap judgment without looking at the facts objectively.

Remember, I was deleted based upon an accusation bassed upon a presumption that simply is not true. All I'm trying to do is get my nation back. A nation, BTW, that I've put a lot of time into and played by the rules with.

I'm hoping that the Mods take a good close look at the nationstates logs as they presumably will as has been indicated. You know why? Because I'm sure that they will find a lot of interesting stuff up to and including password hacking, ID spoofing, etc.

You know, a browser error can cause your computer to ping or UDP a server upon which you are accessing a page. If you superficially look at a log, it might be construed as 'scripting' if you were posting at or near the time. Or the same is true if you are using a ping program just to keep the speed of you connection up or to maintain the connection. The type of packet would show that it wasn't a script, but most people wouldn't be able to figure that one out.

So, given the fact that I was deleted without anyone looking at the logs before making that decision, a simple complaint to the mods might get you deleted for scripting. An false accusation unexamined can go along way and it can come back to bite you.

Then how about the person who claimed that I endorsed their nation automatically after I had been logged off after 5 hours? Now, explain how I did that one. Oh, I love that accusation and the fact that Moldavi related it to me. In order for someone to do that they would have to hack the NationStates host server and load a program into said server. I might want the mods to look at the possibility of deliberate hacking by someone who wants to remove certain people (plural) from the game. I'm sure that the alleged "RL political post" that Franken4Pres allegedly made that got him deleted can be verified or proven false with log examination.

I realize that it is tough to actually verify things like scripting, etc., *unless* you look at the logs and that alone can be a very daunting task to accomplish. This is especially true considering the amount of users in this game. It is natural to presume that all the evidence isn't seen or even thought of and that it might take too much time to investigate the veracity of every complaint and that deletions occur when no offense was committed.

Either way, I'm putting my faith in the Mods to take a look at the server logs to verify that I did not engage in 'scripting' in any way, shape or form and reverse their decision to delete the nation of Romanoffia.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8104046&postcount=19

Continuing this argument solves nothing; please wait for the Administrator's decision.

iLock.