NationStates Jolt Archive

We were recently invaded in my Region, Area Fifty One. We successfully repelled the invasion. The party that invaded us (who shall not be named at this time) has, and I have documentation of this...sworn retaliation and vengeance on our Region.

We have informed these people that our Region wants NO PART WHATSOEVER in invading...or being invaded...that we simply want to be LEFT ALONE in our Region...and that we would consider any such carrying out of a vendetta to be "griefing," as griefing is defined as "gameplay with the primary aim to upset, annoy, or harass other players."

I, for right now, just want an opinion from Mods if, now that we have placed them on notice that we want no part of invading or being invaded...if they continue to carry out such attempts against our Region...in essence, carrying out a vendetta...if this falls into the category of "griefing" officially. And if so, when and if we choose to report the guilty party, will you actually take action to stop these people from harassing us, and ruining our gameplay experience?

For now, I am not making a formal complaint, or naming the guilty party. I just want a Moderator opinion on whether such practices as carrying out a vendetta, is officially covered under "griefing."

We have already informed this group of people that we want NO PART of invading or BEING INVADED.

Opinions from Mods, please??

I noticed you do have a founder - the founder can take steps to safeguard your region...just my thoughts.

W.

Why don't you just set a password?

Just to answer the question in general, invasions do not constitute griefing so long as they abide by the invasion rules. The stated desires and intentions of the natives of the target region are not a consideration, here.

That said, you do have a Founder (as "Wolfish" pointed out). The Founder "Lyric" can eject any invaders that show up and disable Delegate access to Regional Control. So, invasions shouldn't really be a problem so long as the Founder is active.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

Just to answer the question in general, invasions do not constitute griefing so long as they abide by the invasion rules. The stated desires and intentions of the natives of the target region are not a consideration, here.

That said, you do have a Founder (as "Wolfish" pointed out). The Founder "Lyric" can eject any invaders that show up and disable Delegate access to Regional Control. So, invasions shouldn't really be a problem so long as the Founder is active.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

They do NOT abide by the invasion rules. We have caught them red-handed in setting up, and disussing setting up UN-Multis, using other people's email addresses. Furthermore, THIS showed up in Lyric's Telegram Box...the author has been left out. But I think THIS constitutes griefing!!

Let me make it plain that these people ARE NOT WELCOME in our Region AND THEY KNOW IT....and yet they continue to come in and harass and post stuff like this on our public boards, as well as in our telegram boxes...
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You think I'm pissed off? YOU THINK THIS IS PISSED OFF, PUNK?!? Well, no it isn't. You know why? Cuz I'm not gonna let a bunch of know-it-all hippie gang bangers like you push me around!

(Region name deleted for now, as I am not yet making formal complaint. I only want them to STOP IT!! They are harassing me and ruining MY gameplay experience.) has been roaming NationStates longer than Michael Jackson's been roaming your mom! And in my years of experience, I've learned a thing or two, and I have more tricks up my sleeves that you could count! Which isn't saying much, I suppose, since most of you probably haven't even passed kintergarden! I'm satisfied with the fact that we are ultimately superior to your petty "Liberal" region. See the quote marks? See them?!?

Right up there^^^ around the word Liberal. That's called...SARCASM!!! You know why? Because I've been watching you pimps for longer than you can imagine(oh, I forgot, you're in kintergarden, sorry), and I can tell that on the outside your "Liberals" but really you control your nations like puppets on a string! Now I'm gonna throw a big word in your face. Ready for it? Okay, here it comes!...DICTATORSHIP!!! Dun...dun...DUUUUUUUNN!!!

I know to you Trekkie geeks that's probably the insult of insults. (Oh, yeah, srry, I'm not up on my Klingon proverbs) And is "loser" seriously the best insult you can think of, queef?

Anyway, I'll just have you know that I'm pretty confident that I already know who your spy is. No matter how "hidden" or whatever you said about that crap he is, I can tell. I have my ways of flushing out spyies. (heehee, just ask Paradise on Earth)


Anyway, in conclusion, Trekkie dictator, this isn't over. Your ignorance has only increased our wrath, and believe me, (Region Name deleted) has never backed down from anyone. We'll hit you hard! You won't know how, and you won't know when, but when it hits you, you won't be able to find your own asses even if you had a map! Our invasion should have been an insult to your intelligence, really. The only reason you found out about the attack is we didn't take enough safety precautions to keep you from it. You could say we thought you were too stupid to find out what we were planning. I'm glad I'm out of your stinking region; good riddance!!!

This is the last straw, Lyric. This means war! From now on, we're enemies. And I guarantee it: you won't be the ones getting the final word.
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I say here and now: WE DO NOT WANT TO PLAY WAR GAMES!! WE DO NOT WANT TO DEAL WITH THIS!!! WE PERCEIVE THIS AS HARASSING, THREATENING, AND CARRYING OUT A VENDETTA...JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T LIKE OUR POLITICS!!

I want a ruling on this. I am about to file formal complaint if the people involved do not STOP IT...and fast!!!

Well if you do want to file a complaint, you'll need to make sure to keep the TG in your inbox (or the inbox of whoever recieved it). That's something that you should report via the Getting Help Page (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help).

I mean, if they're causing you problems by sending TGs to you and causing you headaches, you have nothing to lose by reporting the problem to the mods. If there's something wrong, they'll handle it for you.

Why don't you just set a password?

Because passwords inhibit growth...and passwords can easily be gotten by one person who wants in...and makes themselves look good...and then shared with others we do not want in.

Passwords invite a false sense of security.

And yes, we have a Founder...AND our UN Delegate NEVER has control of Region controls, per our Constitution. So they can never actually take us over, in that sense.

BUT, we just plain, flat do not want these people in our Region, we do not want their harrassing, threatening, and annoying posts on our boards, or our telegram boxes.

Furthermore, we have them in violation of UN-Multi rules. We have documentation of them discussing, and setting up, UN-Multis.

We just want them to leave US alone. We have placed them on formal notice that we merely wish to be left alone. It would seem to me that, after being TOLD that we want just to be left alone...and them failing to do so...is gaming "with a primary intent to harass, annoy, and threaten other gameplayers" and that is the exact definition of griefing, from the Game FAQ.

We also believe that carrying out a vendetta against a specific nation, or Region is also griefing. We want them to stop. We merely want to be left alone, in peace, in our Region of like-minded individuals. We don't want THEIR kind around us.

Well if you do want to file a complaint, you'll need to make sure to keep the TG in your inbox (or the inbox of whoever recieved it). That's something that you should report via the Getting Help Page (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help).

I mean, if they're causing you problems by sending TGs to you and causing you headaches, you have nothing to lose by reporting the problem to the mods. If there's something wrong, they'll handle it for you.

Oh, don't worry. Lyric is saving that TG in her Inbox.

I just do not believe Mods will do anything about it, because Mods don't seem to care. Sorry, but I have had bad experiences with Mods.

I had one nation, once, who was BAITED into flaming back at someone, and MY nation wound up getting deleted. And all because Mods wouldn't do something about the offender first!

I'm sorry, but I have limited faith in our Mods.

Well, telling your "mod horror stories" isn't going to help.
I am sympathetic though. I do think that that is griefing (sp?), as it is playing to make someone else's experience unpleasant.

Well, telling your "mod horror stories" isn't going to help.
I am sympathetic though. I do think that that is griefing (sp?), as it is playing to make someone else's experience unpleasant.

EXACTLY. But you heard the ONE Mod who so far responded. sounds to me like he isn't going to do a damned thing about it.

They (the people about whom I was originally posting) ARE playing in order to make our gaming experience unpleasant. And yet, what reaction have I gotten from Mods? Nothing!!

See? They don't REALLY want to do anything about it. They forget what it is like to be a lowly peopn player who has to deal with this aggrivation, because NO ONE goes and does this sort of stuff that I am enduring to a MOD. So they forget quickly what it feels like to be on the receiving end of harassment.

I'm only asking the Mods to do their job, and stop others from going out to intentionally ruin MY gaming experience. You see just how much enthusiasm the Mods seem to have for doing what they were originally put into the game FOR.

No, they will continue to allow these scumsucker invaders to carry out a vendetta against us, and do nothing about it...and then when WE get really pissed off and retaliate or flame back then WE will end up being DEATed, while the original people who CAUSED it all in the first place will go off scot-free!

And that is my opinion, based upon past experiences, and the so-far lack of any real interest by Mods.

What does it take to get their attention?? for God's sake, I posted the telegram that was sent to me right here!! You'd think it would wake SOMEONE up, that there's more going on here...and stuff that warrants further attention...but, apparently not.

Apparently, it is perfectly okay to continue to come at a player, and come at them and come at them and come at them and come at them...and make their life a living hell...and Mods won't do anything...but as soon as I react to being gone after again and again and again, like a freaking VENDETTA...when I finally crack under the strain of it...and of Mods doing nothing about it...then I end up getting DEATed...while the people who carried out the vendetta get away with it.

It all just seems real backwwards to me why the VICTIM is the only one who ever gets hurt!!

All I want is for these attackers to STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT....NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

IT IS DRIVING MY BLOOD PRESSURE WAY SKY HIGH!! I JUST WANT THESE JERKS WHO KEEP IT UP TO LEAVE US ALONE!!!!

And the Mods won't DO anything!!! do you understand my frustration??

...but did you not say that you were not making a formal complaint? If you have not made a complaint, what is it that you wish us to do?

For now, I am not making a formal complaint, or naming the guilty party. I just want a Moderator opinion on whether such practices as carrying out a vendetta, is officially covered under "griefing."

Just to answer the question in general, invasions do not constitute griefing so long as they abide by the invasion rules. The stated desires and intentions of the natives of the target region are not a consideration, here.

That said, you do have a Founder (as "Wolfish" pointed out). The Founder "Lyric" can eject any invaders that show up and disable Delegate access to Regional Control. So, invasions shouldn't really be a problem so long as the Founder is active.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

I want a ruling on this. I am about to file formal complaint if the people involved do not STOP IT...and fast!!!

Might I point out that Cogitation did answer your question; however, it seems that the answer perhaps was not expected or welcomed.

Why go about talking about how we won't help when we have so far done exactly as you have asked?

Before I begin, Bucksnort, I'm going to inform you that you are bordering on being officially warned for flamebaiting NationStates Moderators.

But you heard the ONE Mod who so far responded. sounds to me like he isn't going to do a damned thing about it.
Prior to my post, Post #4 of this topic, all you were really asking about were invasions. Did invasions constitute griefing? I gave you an answer to that: No, they are not griefing so long as they obey certain restrictions. That's all you asked about and that's all I answered. It's only after I posted that you started talking about abusive telegrams and UN multying.

So I will remind you that I cannot see everything at once and I ask you not to presume that I am omniscient. NationStates is very large and I can only look at individual pieces of it at a time.

Now, I have checked "Lyric"s telegram box and confirmed that the telegram exists. Furthermore, I have ruled that it is an abusive telegram. Furthermore, the one who sent it was a UN multi. The rulebreakers responsible have been ejected from the UN (for multying) and deleted (for both offenses put together).

Now, personally and unofficially, I hold in very low regard invasions of regions whose residents just want to be left alone. Officially, however, the Admins have ruled that invasions are legal so long as they abide by certain restrictions. As Moderator, I am required to abide by the rulings of the Admins. So, it doesn't matter how much you dislike invasions, it's still legal for anyone to try to invade your region. As long as the invasion abides by the invasion rules, it's not Mod-actionable.

Abusive telegrams are Mod-actionable. Abusive Civil Headquarters messages are Mod-actionable (if a Mod sees it in time). UN multying is Mod-actionable. Legal invasions are not.

Now, is there anything else that you wish to bring to our attention?

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

Before I begin, Bucksnort, I'm going to inform you that you are bordering on being officially warned for flamebaiting NationStates Moderators.


Prior to my post, Post #4 of this topic, all you were really asking about were invasions. Did invasions constitute griefing? I gave you an answer to that: No, they are not griefing so long as they obey certain restrictions. That's all you asked about and that's all I answered. It's only after I posted that you started talking about abusive telegrams and UN multying.

So I will remind you that I cannot see everything at once and I ask you not to presume that I am omniscient. NationStates is very large and I can only look at individual pieces of it at a time.

Now, I have checked "Lyric"s telegram box and confirmed that the telegram exists. Furthermore, I have ruled that it is an abusive telegram. Furthermore, the one who sent it was a UN multi. The rulebreakers responsible have been ejected from the UN (for multying) and deleted (for both offenses put together).

Now, personally and unofficially, I hold in very low regard invasions of regions whose residents just want to be left alone. Officially, however, the Admins have ruled that invasions are legal so long as they abide by certain restrictions. As Moderator, I am required to abide by the rulings of the Admins. So, it doesn't matter how much you dislike invasions, it's still legal for anyone to try to invade your region. As long as the invasion abides by the invasion rules, it's not Mod-actionable.

Abusive telegrams are Mod-actionable. Abusive Civil Headquarters messages are Mod-actionable (if a Mod sees it in time). UN multying is Mod-actionable. Legal invasions are not.

Now, is there anything else that you wish to bring to our attention?

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

Fair enough, Cogitation. Perhaps I buried some other stuff in there which you did not see and respond to...but, SPECIFICALLY, I was referring to a player, or group of players...CONTINUALLY coming at someone and at aomeone and at someone, vendetta-style...and asked if THAT constituted "griefing."

Perhaps the failure was on my part for failing to ask the question clearly.

What I really want to know is if it is "actionable" when the same group continues to go after, and go after, and go after...a Region that just wants to be left alone...and who swears vendetta.

And, as I said, later on...I had documented proof of this group's illegal activities, including griefing by harassing, threatening telegram, and UN-multi-ing. I guess you didn't even need the proof I collected, you were able to see it on your own, and apparently have taken action based on that.

So, I thank you for your attention to this matter, and I am sorry for going off like I did, but I am really very upset over these people continuing to come after our Region time and again, with no end in sight, when all we want is to be left alone.

Meanwhile, can I get some kind of ruling on whether or not the SAME GROUP of people coming at you again and again and again...with the intent to annoy, harrass, and carry out a vendetta...is THAT Mod-actionable?

Perhaps my question should have been clearer. I apologize for any offense you or other Mods may have taken...I thank you for the action you have taken...and, if I can get an answer to my REAL question...I'd appreciate it.

My own sense tells me that, when a group of people KNOWS they are creating grief for another player or Region, by going after them multiple times...THAT should be considered griefing. Once and done invasions are one thing...vendettas are quite another.

Sincerely,
Bucksnort.

If you could get your founder (if it isn't you) to eject them next time they come, then they will be permanently banned. However, if a large bulk has been deleted, then they may not constitute a problem anymore.

If you could get your founder (if it isn't you) to eject them next time they come, then they will be permanently banned. However, if a large bulk has been deleted, then they may not constitute a problem anymore.

Our Founded DID eject and Ban them...but that does NOT stop them from creating new nations, and doing UN-multi with the NEW nations (which hve not been banned) and coming at us again. And this group HAS demonstrated it's willingness to break UN-multi rules.

So even ejecting and banning does not do any good.

Personally, I'd like to see them IP-banned.

Well, report them for multying, they'll get IPed eventually if they keep on doing it.

Well, report them for multying, they'll get IPed eventually if they keep on doing it.

Well, I think UN-multying should be an IP bannable offense FOR THE FIRST OFFENSE!! This is FLAGRANT violation of rules.

It's only worthy of a banning from the UN currently. Personally, I think it should stay that way.

It's only worthy of a banning from the UN currently. Personally, I think it should stay that way.

then I intend to complain if The Fiefdom of Alruco is admitted to the UN...because that is the re-incarnation of Samusland, the nation that JUST GOT DEATed for UN-multying.

They even have the same motto. And Alruco is a nation on which I have started another thread making formal complaint for him posting harrassing stuff in our Public Board and then leaving...before our founder got a chance to boot them.

then I intend to complain if The Fiefdom of Alruco is admitted to the UN...because that is the re-incarnation of Samusland, the nation that JUST GOT DEATed for UN-multying.


That's perfectly legal, I believe. However, if there's any more multying, or flaming or whatever, I imagine the DOS would become an option for the mods.

yes, i believe that is what will happen. Please watch them for any multying, and then post a new topic about their multying.

then this will happen:
them---> :) :gundge: <--- the mods and admins

I'm not sure how this works, but I have a question about a thread.

There is a thread called "Why isn't Bush...gone" that is implying, if not advocating, George Bush be killed. Now, I take a back seat to no one in my opposition to Bush, but I know the Secret Service does not take those kinds of discussions, even jokingly, with any kind of humor.

Should threads that stray into discussions of killing the president be locked and deleted?

\then this will happen:
them---> :) :gundge: <--- the mods and admins

Just as a little note, don't imply that the mods are to be used as weapons. They don't find it too amusing.

I'm not sure how this works, but I have a question about a thread.

There is a thread called "Why isn't Bush...gone" that is implying, if not advocating, George Bush be killed. Now, I take a back seat to no one in my opposition to Bush, but I know the Secret Service does not take those kinds of discussions, even jokingly, with any kind of humor.

Should threads that stray into discussions of killing the president be locked and deleted?

You normally would start a new thread on it.

Well, I think UN-multying should be an IP bannable offense FOR THE FIRST OFFENSE!! This is FLAGRANT violation of rules.
Hm. And I think that you should be IP banned if you flame excessively on the forums despite several warnings.

Good thing neither of us are making policy, hmm?

I'm not implying that, what i am saying is taht their wrath will descend upon the invaders. It is what they do normally, isn't it? I'm just saying that they will teach whoever cheats a lesson in hopes they won't cheat.



as in this

person who was deated for cheating, but continues cheating anyway--> :) :gundge: <-- the moderators and admins after discovering that the person is cheating again, coming down to destroy all those who cheat, in a heroic, good looking manner

that better?

Just as a little note, don't imply that the mods are to be used as weapons. They don't find it too amusing.
I'm not implying that, what i am saying is taht their wrath will descend upon the invaders. It is what they do normally, isn't it? I'm just saying that they will teach whoever cheats a lesson in hopes they won't cheat.
First, our wrath decends upon the cheaters. If they also happen to be invaders, then that's besides the point. Second, I think Steel Butterfly was just bringing that up as a cautionary note; threateaning to use the Mods as a weapon is more along the lines of saying "Do what I want or the Moderators will delete you."

If you're going to report someone to us Mods, then report them to us. Don't tell them that you're reporting them as it can be construed as flamebait (which is against the rules).

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

*bows down*

okay, i'm sorry, i did not mean it that way, if you saw it that way. sorry

*bows down*

okay, i'm sorry, i did not mean it that way, if you saw it that way. sorry
Relax, I meant to say that you didn't cross any lines. It's just a cautionary note for future reference, that's all.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Shouldn't they only be considered Invaders if the are crashing and taking over a region, By taking the delgacy. From whats said here, They're not doing that. So classing them as invaders may be a bit unfair to real invaders, no?

YNL

Second, I think Steel Butterfly was just bringing that up as a cautionary note; threateaning to use the Mods as a weapon is more along the lines of saying "Do what I want or the Moderators will delete you."

Yep. Cog got it right.