NationStates Jolt Archive

I need moderation, I have recieved TG's, and have been subjected to public posts flaming me and my region by Hammering Them, Cloudy Nights, Mississippi Rio, amd General Franks. All are the same person to my knowledge. I have submitted this all to Getting Help, and have heard nothing back. I realize the mods are busy, and I understand this, but I was really wondering what was going on. Thank you very much.

Here are the TG's and Posts:

This post was made by Cloudy Nights on The Exodus RMB:

19 hours ago The Democratic States of Cloudy Nights Residents of The Exodus, please refer to paragraphs three, four and five, specifically. This message posted in the region The DEN some minutes ago. Thank you.

10 minutes ago The United States of Hammering Them

This region is for DEN troopers only, they are the original and continuing natives of this region and anything other than a dutifully elected DEN delegate is an invading delegate. We expect the banlist to be cleared, DEN natives rights to be respected, the same civilities that DEN troopers show regions when we take their delegacies as an invading force. All nations in this region who are not DEN troopers are classified as hostile to DEN and their regions will become target to DEN operations should they not immediately leave the region.

Travelling nations who seek to continue to purport that they have any rights of abode in this region are mistaken. The DEN forfeits no rights of residency or ownership as a result of the founder nation being deleted. Juvenile attempts to indicate that this region is somehow non-DEN by either the incoming invading delegates or any supposed "residents" who have arrived as a result of recent invasions are disregarded.

The Red Parrot (Polly) is a nation controlled The Avenging Angels, the founder of the region The Exodus, a supposedly neutral region. This continued pro-defender and partisan flamebait is not neutral conduct, it is conduct outwith the NS FAQ and has been reported to the moderators.

And regarding "Polly likes a good intellectual discourse as long as it is going somewhere and is mildly productive." Well, we'll have to stick around till hell freezes over as we've seen nothing but spam and flamebaiting from this supposed intellectual heavy-weight who talks like a four year old.

The Avenging Angels/"Polly" and all other non-DEN troopers, you are politely asked to leave lest your region be classified as a defender region and become the target of invader groups worldwide.

The DEN. Raiding regions and ejecting nations, just for the hell of it since February 27th 2004.

This TG was receieved my nation The Avenging Angels:

The Borderlands of Mississippi Rio
Received: 1 day ago AA,

After all my hours of patience with you this is how you thank me?

52 minutes ago The Immortal Spirit of The Avenging Angels Good Afternoon The Exodus,

All these NAZI nations have been reported to the mods. I am fairly sure Rio and his IDF friends are behind this recent NAZI crap. Now, this to me is not the sign of a peaceful, tolerant, and understanding leader.

There is a difference between spreading the truth and making up blatant lies. My spreading the truth that Mississippi Rio is also General Franks is a fact everyone deserves to know. On the other hand this recent NAZI puppet thing is an example of spreading lies. I would encourage you to learn the difference.

I apologize if this sounds harsh in anyway.

--------

I will make this short. You can forget about pinning me as the big bad enemy that is the bringer of all your woes. You seem to have brought them upon yourself. There is a major difference between running an apolitical raider region and running a Nazi region. I do the former, not the latter.

If you persist in using your nations to publically name me, I will ensure that the moderators delete you and your nations.

You have some nerve after all the abuse, spam and hate that you and your friends Washinson and Farce poured out in the Ille and your slander will not be tolerated. I don't expect you'll have the guts to apologise, because you didn't even have the guts to be the delegate of Ille de France when you were here, instead you logged in two or three times, hid and pretended to be ill.

Why don't you focus your energies on something a little more positive?

Now, get all your puppets out of my regions.

Peace.

Rio.

This TG was recieved by my other nation The Red Parrot:

The United States of Hammering Them
Received: 23 hours ago AA,

Quit it please. You claim to be neutral, you are not, you are an ally of the defenders and you are going to drag your region of The Exodus into an unnecessary conflict.

I'll be happy to expose all your past and present sins for the world to see if you seek to ignore my friendly and polite warning. This in no way is a threat, just an exact reflection of what you are doing here now in my region and what you have been doing in my region of Ille de France for some months. I know who you've been speaking with, I know what you've been saying and I'm politely asking you to cease and desist.

This is a region for DEN troopers only, it is not negotiable and sooner or later, when we're ready, you'll be gently moved on to the RR.

Rather than creating regions with the word "peace" in the title and then acting contrary to everything you purport, your continued actions are placing you and your region in the open field of all raider regions and opening your supposedly tolerant region up to unnecessary strife. You have been opening the Ille up to this sort of conflict for a while - I know that you are actively planning ferment and I know who with.

Get some perspective please. Leave all my regions and we might retain a shred of civility to each other.

General Franks.

There had been another post on The DEN RMB that was flaming me as well. Also, my region The Exodus were subjected to some NAZI spammers, who I believed are linked to Mississippi Rio/General Franks. The names of these spamemrs are Dallall 88, Eiasian Malad, Haram, and Nazi Europe 88. They are not linked to Nazi Europe, and it was an attempt to make my region look bad, and to start something between my region and Nazi Europe.

This is a QUOTE box. It is created using QUOTE tags. Please use them, as it helps make your complaint easier to understand. To help you learn, I will replace the [square brackets] with (parenthesis) and type this again. Thank you.

(quote=Cogitation)This is a QUOTE box. It is created using QUOTE tags. Please use them, as it helps make your complaint easier to understand. To help you learn, I will replace the [square brackets] with (parenthesis) and type this again. Thank you.(/quote)

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

I assume Cogs post about the QUOTE tags means the matters reported have been dealt with ? And if they have not yet been dealt with, I'd just like to remind Cog that I brought what I think was a slightly earlier matter in relation to these before him in IRC yesterday, carried out by I think the same person as one of those listed here and I query if that too is yet resolved. Also, since The United States of Hammering Them is * supposed * to be a puppet of General Franks, in the hypothetical event I'm sure, they are to be or were warned for a violation, do the warnings rack up against a " main " nation or the puppet ? I can't remember if you answered that or if I asked you before while on IRC ... -_-

* Look Ma, Pa, no (parenthesis) ! ;) * It turns out you can't just have a post of a quote box and what ever is in it ... And I was about to " Sal, Sal ! ( in IRC ) I think I broke the bloody forum !

So, whats the problem? I put the TG's and posts in quote boxes like Cog asked me to.

I feel the TG's are an attempt to flamebait me into arguing with him. The post on my regions RMB by Cloudy Nights was spam, and flamebait. I apologize if I did not explain this enough. Sorry about that. Also, the post on The DEN RMB I consider to be flamebait as well.

I haven't dealt with this case, yet (as I'm feeling a bit tired), but I have officially confirmed that the message posted by "Hammering Them" does, indeed, exist. So, this is no longer time-sensitive.

Just hold onto the telegrams and we will eventually get to it. Did you file a Getting Help request about the telegrams?

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Thank you cog, and yes I am holding onto the TG's, and the post made by Cloudy nights is still on my regions RMB last time I checked, and yes I filed getting help reports.

Thank you cog.

Thank you cog, and yes I am holding onto the TG's, and the post made by Cloudy nights is still on my regions RMB last time I checked, and yes I filed getting help reports.

Thank you cog.
Yes, I see the post by "Cloudy Nights". I'm not investigating this right now, but I think he's just quoting the post by "Hammering Them" and nothing more.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Does it matter that hammering them and cloudy nights are the same person? Not to sound pushy or anything, but it was very frustrating to see that on my RMB. I appreciate your effort and willingness to look into this matter.

Also, what about the TG from Mississippi Rio?

May I respectfully ask when this matter will be dealt with? I realize you said it is no longer time sensitive since you officially confirmed the TGs. I was just wondering what the time frame was. Thank you very much again.

It has been a couple of days since I posted this, and since I sent in my getting help requests. I am wondering why nothing has happened yet. I would think this warrant some sort of action.

It makes so little sense that the nations who have amended their way get DEETed months later. But nations disrupting the game for every one go merrily on their way.

It should be just the opposite.

I understand that the mods are human and have lives and everything, but this has gone on for almost a week now. When a nation spams or flamebaits another region, the mods have usually entered quickly and descively. This is not the first time the offending nation has done something like this. An answer from the moderating team, other than, "i'm working on it", would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time,

Lux Aotra

Okay, when I posted to this topic, I only read the post by "Hammering Them". I didn't read the telegrams as I didn't feel up to taking care of it myself. Another Moderator has since looked it over and decided that it wasn't serious enough to take action on.

I have just reviewed the case for myself. For the most part, I have to mostly agree with the Mod who handled this; most of it isn't serious enough to take action on. The only exception are the following bits by "Mississippi Rio":

You have some nerve after all the abuse, spam and hate that you and your friends Washinson and Farce poured out in the Ille and your slander will not be tolerated. I don't expect you'll have the guts to apologise, because you didn't even have the guts to be the delegate of Ille de France when you were here, instead you logged in two or three times, hid and pretended to be ill.
This is borderline flamebait. Whether or not this is actionable is something I would have to discuss with another Moderator. However, this is unnecessary, as I also have the following bit:

If you persist in using your nations to publically name me, I will ensure that the moderators delete you and your nations.
Threatening to use the Moderators as a weapon is a very serious offense. For someone who didn't have a past record, this would be met with an official and very sternly worded warning; so much as sneezing rudely after this would result in a deletion. "Mississippi Rio", on the other hand, is a reincarnation of a past rulebreaker and has, therefore, been deleted-without-warning.

Now, I'm not sure if I'm actually overriding a Moderator on that particular point, as I can't find the Getting Help request that reported "Mississippi Rio"s telegram. That would explain why this nation wasn't acted against, earlier. The remainder of the complaint in this topic, however, is being ignored.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

I understand that the mods are human and have lives and everything, but this has gone on for almost a week now.
...or about 2 days.

Thank you for posting this forum, many of us in the Ille have been left out in the cold as to why our founder was deleted.

This has made it quite clear that the whole affair has been due to Avenging Angels (AA) motives of some type of revenge or his feelings of being "dissed".
It is interesting that the very reasons that were given for deleting the founder of the Ille de France, Mississippi Rio (Rio), are what AA has been doing to Rio all along.

I will compile the information that I have into a concise format to present. I ask you to allow me a couple of days to get this together as there are so many documents to sort, and so many instances indicating the underlying motives of AA, from Flamebaiting Rio in his other Regions to the all out gloating of finally getting his way.
I have extensive documentation of AA’s posts and TG’s.

I realize that comments outside of NS, i.e. chatrooms, should not be considered as admissible, but if they were, AA and many of his followers would have been called upon to account for their rudeness, aggression, abuses, and at times, complete and total disregard others present (I have records of “Washinson” actually cussing & making personal real life threats against “Wilkenstan”).

Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter, and I ask you to please not let this issue rest until we of the Ille de France have had our opportunity to respond to these malicious allegations presented by those that have a clear and apparent agenda.

Sincerely, Splattered Phthalo

f you can show evidence (from peoples telegram boxes or currently visible regional boards) that I am guilty of what you charge, then please do so. If not, then kindly desist in making accusations which you cannot back up with independently verifiable proof. I understand that you are dismayed at losing your founder, but perhaps he should have considered his actions before the events that have led to his repeated deletions. I understand that you do not like to acknowledge the fact that as General Tommy Franks, the New Den and now, as Mississippi Rio, he has been deleted three times in the last month for making threats of one kind or another. Nobody likes to see their idols crashing to the ground. But you are going to have to face the truth that the person you should be annoyed with is not me. Perhaps it is yourself. Either way, that is not my business. However, the groundless accusations are not going to do you or your former founder any good whatsoever. I could have mentioned that in a chatroom, Rio recently said he would break my legs in real life. But I didn't because it cannot be verified. I recommend you to adopt the same standards. In peace. Avenging Angels.

I will compile the information that I have into a concise format to present. I ask you to allow me a couple of days to get this together as there are so many documents to sort, and so many instances indicating the underlying motives of AA, from Flamebaiting Rio in his other Regions to the all out gloating of finally getting his way.
I have extensive documentation of AA’s posts and TG’s.

I realize that comments outside of NS, i.e. chatrooms, should not be considered as admissible, but if they were, AA and many of his followers would have been called upon to account for their rudeness, aggression, abuses, and at times, complete and total disregard others present (I have records of “Washinson” actually cussing & making personal real life threats against “Wilkenstan”).
Remember the following: Only offenses within the NationStates domain will be considered. If your evidence consists of NationState telegrams, then the telegrams must still exist and must still be in the telegram boxes of the nations involved. Copied-and-pasted telegrams will be expressly ignored. If the offenses consist of regional Civil Headquarters board posts, then the posts must still be visible when a NationStates Moderator goes to look at them. Copied-and-pasted posts will be expressly ignored. Offenses outside the NationStates.net domain will be expressly ignored by NationStates Moderators; these must be reported to the appropriate site authorities/Admins where the offenses took place.

Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter, and I ask you to please not let this issue rest until we of the Ille de France have had our opportunity to respond to these malicious allegations presented by those that have a clear and apparent agenda.
If you want to file a complaint about "The Avenging Angels", then do so, but keep in mind that a guilty verdict against "The Avenging Angels" or anyone else is not going to mean the resurrection of "Mississippi Rio".

<snip>
That will be enough. We'll deal with this matter.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

Sirs,

Thank you again for your kind attention in the matter of the deletion of IDF's founder, Mississippi Rio. We in the region were very confused and stunned at this development, and your providing this forum helps us to understand what has led to the Moderator action.

We also would like to thank the nations involved for providing their information regarding this case, as it sheds a very bright-light on the conflict, and what is and is not considered "actionable" speech by the moderating nations.

We have two questions, however:

1. If moderators can only decide issues based on current examples or evidentiary posts that exist on either RMBs or mailboxes, it would seem difficult to build a case against a nation/nations that are bending or quietly breaking rules over a considerable length of time. If only current evidence can be used, would a "screenshot" of the flame or hateful message on the RMB work as admissible evidence?

I ask this more for background information, as it appears that your decision in the Rio Affair is final, and any such evidence we would have would not be helpful in reversing our founder's deletion.

2. Given the time-sensitive nature of investigations, the fact that RMBs are frequently cleared by subsequent posts, and as has been stated here the Moderator team serve a voluntary post and are quite busy, one would almost have to set-up a "sting" operation to catch the offender red-handed -- which seems almost as underhanded as any "actionable" offense (kinda like breaking the rules to get another rule-breaker in trouble). A flamebait, in otherwords, but a whole-lot more complex and thought-out.

Is there a rule regarding a nation or nations continually pursuing activites that are designed with the expressed-purpose of getting other nations deleted? Does a rule exist to dissuade nations from engaging in crusades?

This is asked with a clear-eye on the future; now that a big-target like "Rio", aka "Franks", aka...etc, etc, etc, has been sucessfully taken-down, it is possible that other nations are or will be targeted, and could be the subject of future "deletion campaigns" -- to the point of persecution.

Thank you for your time and consideration,
Naginii.

Perhaps I am succumbing to the climate of suspicion suggested by Naginii's post, but I have the distinct impression that many of his comments were intended to cast apersions on a number of people, including me. I never made any post regarding Missisippi Rio/General Franks that could be considered "hateful". It was not me who made threats against other nations involving real life consequences. Check the reasons why General Tommy Franks and the New Den were deleted last month and then think about who was motivated by malice, who goes over the top. Nobody persecuted him. He occupies a highly visible position in nationstates as founder of one of the largest regions and leader of one of the main raiding organizations. Perhaps this power went to his head. Perhaps he got too "into character" in his role as general. Either way, the result in recent times is that he has made posts and sent telegrams that menaced people and insulted them very personally. And, if you want to talk about clearing RMBs, you might like to consider the amount of times that Franks and his alter ego of The Artful Dodger in The old raiding club have quickly rubbed the boards after an outburst.

But, of course, I am sure you won't consider any of the above. I respect your loyalty to your leader. It's admirable. But I have no wish for a war of words with you. I have made my complaint and the mods have made their decision. Let that be an end to it.

1. If moderators can only decide issues based on current examples or evidentiary posts that exist on either RMBs or mailboxes, it would seem difficult to build a case against a nation/nations that are bending or quietly breaking rules over a considerable length of time. If only current evidence can be used, would a "screenshot" of the flame or hateful message on the RMB work as admissible evidence?Not likely. For time sensitive matters there is the option of the IRC channel #themodcave which is open 24/7 and more often then not has at least one active Moderator in it.

Also the old argument stands, screen shots are too easily doctored, to the point that as evidence they are considered null data. Unless they are taken by a Moderator of course, but even so they would be more likely to deal with it then take a picture of the event.2. Given the time-sensitive nature of investigations, the fact that RMBs are frequently cleared by subsequent posts, and as has been stated here the Moderator team serve a voluntary post and are quite busy, one would almost have to set-up a "sting" operation to catch the offender red-handed -- which seems almost as underhanded as any "actionable" offense (kinda like breaking the rules to get another rule-breaker in trouble). A flamebait, in otherwords, but a whole-lot more complex and thought-out.Not allowed, any such action would still be a flame bait, as a flame bait is the express action to lure other players to flame the baiter and get the player who is baited into trouble.Is there a rule regarding a nation or nations continually pursuing activites that are designed with the expressed-purpose of getting other nations deleted? Does a rule exist to dissuade nations from engaging in crusades?See this part of the ToS here :You may submit content to NationStates.net so long as it is not obscene, illegal, threatening, malicious, or defamatory, does not invade the privacy or infringe the intellectual property of a third party, and does not constitute "spam." You may not use a false e-mail address, impersonate any person or entity, attempt to "hack" the site or another player's account, nor otherwise mislead as to the origin of information.It is possible the parts I have detailed in red may be considered to cover such an action as you describe, but since I fail to know of any such action I suggest you gather any proof or evidence of such a thing you have, making sure it is both correct and can be used ( posts, telegrams still in boxes, and / or current / visible R.C.H.Q.M.B. posts ) ...

And I strongly suggest you report such a matter only through the Getting Help page, to avoid :You may submit content to NationStates.net so long as it is not obscene, illegal, threatening, malicious, or defamatory, does not invade the privacy or infringe the intellectual property of a third party, and does not constitute "spam." You may not use a false e-mail address, impersonate any person or entity, attempt to "hack" the site or another player's account, nor otherwise mislead as to the origin of information.Facing such problems as that, ...<snip>The Avenging Angels, enough. I am sure Moderation Staff will deal with all matters as they see fit to do so.

And might I finish that since this seems to go on and on now with members of one region or another or what-ever still being " shocked and confused by their region founders deletion " I will quote it in the hopes it will - now - get a reading from those whom are both " shocked " and " confused "Threatening to use the Moderators as a weapon is a very serious offense. For someone who didn't have a past record, this would be met with an official and very sternly worded warning; so much as sneezing rudely after this would result in a deletion. "Mississippi Rio", on the other hand, is a reincarnation of a past rulebreaker and has, therefore, been deleted-without-warning.

We appreciate your time and consideration of our questions.

Until this forum topic was opened, we indeed were confused why the action was taken against our founder.

Now we are not so confused. All is clear. Case closed.

Thank you for your time,
Naginii.