NationStates Jolt Archive

Cu mara of Northern Ireland, an invader delegate, has kicked many natives out of ireland! Please look into this, he's not even from ireland and i am a new player and even i see how this is messed up. his home region is apparently northern ireland and he booted the old rightful delegate bohola.
i've been in the ns world for almost six months and this is my third nation. i love the game and i got to know the histoyr of ireland and this guy committed quite the crime fro mwhat ive seen so hopefeully the mods will do the right thing with him. xo tara :) how can he do this whan its not his region???

I'm a native of Ireland, and I have been booted because I have proof that the invader delegate is guilty of election fraud, and the members of his newly installed government are all guilty of treason. I request to be allowed to return to my rightful region and make these people face the proof I have. The "law" by which he has ejected me from the region was proposed by him and passed by his cronies, and is therefore null and void.


He has also kicked an innocent nation (Ceili Cowboy) for some unknown reason.

I must clarify, Cu Mara was elected, but through a fraudulent election. Also, the XML feeds will show that he is a native of NORTHERN Ireland, not Ireland. He is NOT a native of Ireland, and has now booted the previous delegate. Some nations are deleted for less, can some action please be taken?

Give the poor game mods some time folks -- they will get to this as soon as they can. You might want to report it at http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/98741/page=help, and a visit to #themodcave may also be helpful here.

Long time native of Ireland reporting in...

Can confirm Cu Mara is the democratically elected official and can also confirm that Atherton was not booted for any of the reasons she alleges...

She was booted simply for agitating for the removal of the democratically elected delegate...

The title of this thread is also misleading, delegate has only booted five agitators who are seeking to relect the former delegate as they are not happy that they cannot get their own way just like the old days...

Ceili Cowboy is a suspected puppet of one of the agitators so I would take everything he/she says with a huge pinch of salt...

I would fervently suggest that the Moderators look very carefully into this one, but one thing must be recognised...

Those agitators who have been suspended from Ireland are the colleagues of the only one, erstwhile. delete on sight - Eire Shamrock / Prodigal Fenian... Be assured, this is the guy calling the shots for these guys...

Cu Mara is no invader by the way and has been involved in Ireland with people such as Atherton for as long as I have been in the game, with my original nation "Orgybot" since May (or March, I can't remember) 2004... And I know for a fact that he has been involved with Ireland longer than that...

The ironic thing is the original delegate Bohola is actually guilty of the crime that Atherton would seek to have foisted upon Cu Mara... Bohola ejected three long term natives from Ireland for crimes they did not commit back in Summer last year...

Cu Mara allowed these nations to return and this is what has the former power mongers riled, they attempted then to depose the democractically elected delegate Cu Mara, whom they all supported and voted for but have been caught in their plot and rightfully given some time to cool off in the RRs for a while...

Cu Mara continues to hold over 20 native endorsments and the loyal natives of the region wish to see his delegacy continue...

I would urge all moderators to investigate this incident very carefully before taking any action, the amount of mistruths and lies that will be thrown at you will be quite unprecedented I can assure you... :(

Even longer time native of Ireland here...

I completely back up Ceili Cowboy and Atherton's version of events. CU Mara is not the legitimate delegate. He has booted nations that were native to Ireland long before he arrived here simply because these were a threat to his rule, nothing more.

This is not a ES/PF supported action, that no doubt was a spurious accusation intent on tarnishing our cause. Rather this is true natives of Ireland standing united to defend the region from a dishonourable "delegate" and his cronies.

CU Mara only holds the 20 endorsements because he passed a law forcing nations to endorse him, or else be booted from the region. He is a tyrannical dictator who rules by fear and is ruining the enjoyment of NS for all true natives of Ireland.

I implore the Mods to take action against CU Mara before he destroys the region.

-M-

If hes not a native and didn't unban them i think the Mods can jump right in and take action although i'm not completely sure.

The only thing i'd like to know (before the mods sneak in and lock this) Is it doesn't seem like there was any issue till the ejections 8 hours ago since hes been delegate for almost a whole month....

KelticMystery. Native of Ireland. Nice try you guys. If Cu Mara is an invader than pretty much all of you are considered an invader. There are many nations not in Ireland which can verify his status. They will all be coming in shorty. This only shows how petty you guys will stoop to when you will not be cowered to. There was a fair election for delegate held due to the old delegate retiring. This election was ran on an off-site forum ran by the old delegate and he only had the only admin access. We have been attempting to setup and actual democratic government with a senate and judicial branch. When the old guard realized this meant them losing power and all the members of Ireland to gain power they got miffed and have attempted to usurp the delegate. Cu Mara has been delegate for over a month now and this point just show your levels of insanity. This band of thugs will be revealed for what they are. Nothing more. Cu Mara ejected 4 nations that were spearheading this coup. They all pulled their endorsements of the Delegate and 1 was sending un-endorsement message to all other members of the region.

We have been attempting to setup and actual democratic government with a senate and judicial branch. When the old guard realized this meant them losing power and all the members of Ireland to gain power they got miffed and have attempted to usurp the delegate.

A democratic government was firmly in place prior to the rule of CU Mara under the Bohola delegacy. Do not try to make it seem like CU is some form of great saviour bringing democracy to Ireland.

As for the accusation that this is all about us losing power and therefore selfishly attempting to overthrow CU to get power, well this is simply absurd, I had been offered the position of Regional Security Advisor, Irish Americans became Minister for Foreign Affairs, Atherton was offered Minister of Defence and CoDonegal became Minister for Justice.
So the idea that this is about us losing power is completely untrue.

-M-

Cu Mara may not reside that long in Ireland, there was no invasion, since CM was endorsed to the delegate position by natives. He's an internally elected delegate.

I'm referring to this thread:
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=6674314

<--- not a mod

the only thing im wondering about is if bohola and all his friends has all this evidence and proof why did they let CuMara become delegate.

my veiws on this event is that CuMara didnt do things the way Bohola had wanted them and bohola, atherton, IA, and PF didn't want to be in a Ireland where they couldn't call the shots any more, so they plotted to try and over throw the government

why would CuMara leave it this long to do something and why did Bohola send a tg to CuMara stating that if certain members were not banned there would be consquences. you decide whos power hunger and wants their own way

Voter Fraud? There were three candidates running for delegate. The only one other than Cu Mara that received any votes was irish-Americans (a whooping 2 votes). All of you guys voted for Cu Mara and when he would pander to your threats you have turned on him. They all just pulled their endorsement yesterday. This is no invasion.

This group is being spearheaded by none other than Eire Shamrock/Prodigal Fenian. If anyone has been caught in his crosshairs can sympathize with us.

From the old S3 Ireland forums

Ireland->Todays top 10 posters

Todays Top 10 Posters
Member Joined Total Member Posts Posts Today % of todays posts
Atherton 10-March 04 342 3 42.86%
Prodigal Fenian 9-January 04 2,318 3 42.86%

The member regions that were booted violated regional law, and conspired to overthrow the current delegate through undemocratic means. Part of Ireland's regional law is that all UN members must endorse the Delegate, and all of these nations decided not to. Further, they were TGing other nations inside of Ireland telling them to withdraw their endorsements from the current delegate, and give them to the former delegate.

When asked to show proof of voter fraud, they said they'd release it in 43 hours. Now, if you have proof of voter fraud, there is no legitimate reason to withold that information for 43 hours. 43 hours is plenty of time, however, to persuade other regions to come into Ireland, overthrow the existing government, and appoint the former delegate.

These accusations stem from the fact that a few members of Ireland who once wielded great power were very upset that the current Delegate decided to allow two nations he felt were unjustly banned return to Ireland. The current delegate was given warnings by the old delegate to once again ban them, the current Delegate, Cu Mara, decided not to, and is now facing false charges for not kneeling to the demands of these few nations.

the only thing im wondering about is if bohola and all his friends has all this evidence and proof why did they let CuMara become delegate.

my veiws on this event is that CuMara didnt do things the way Bohola had wanted them and bohola, atherton, IA, and PF didn't want to be in a Ireland where they couldn't call the shots any more, so they plotted to try and over throw the government

why would CuMara leave it this long to do something and why did Bohola send a tg to CuMara stating that if certain members were not banned there would be consquences. you decide whos power hunger and wants their own way

Indeed. Once they were certain Cu Mara would not be be banning Orgybot and Brega & Mide, they decided to take matters into their own hands. They repeatedly say they have evidence of voter fraud, but have shown no proof. Why? Again I believe, they have been stalling to forge evidence, and persuade other regions to help invade Ireland so that Bohola, the former delegate, may become Delegate once more.

CU Mara only holds the 20 endorsements because he passed a law forcing nations to endorse him, or else be booted from the region.
-M-


Firstly, Cu Mara had 24 endorsements prior to the law being passed. Secondly, the SENATE, comprised of THREE PEOPLE ELECTED BY THE CITIZENS OF IRELAND IN OPEN BALLOT ELECTIONS, passed this resolution. Ireland isn't an enormous region, and she has no founder. She needs to have all of her UN nations endorsing the Delegate at all times for the sake of safety from invasion. We can't afford not having their endorsements, plain and simple.

He is a tyrannical dictator who rules by fear and is ruining the enjoyment of NS for all true natives of Ireland.
As for the accusation that this is all about us losing power and therefore selfishly attempting to overthrow CU to get power, well this is simply absurd, I had been offered the position of Regional Security Advisor, Irish Americans became Minister for Foreign Affairs, Atherton was offered Minister of Defence and CoDonegal became Minister for Justice.

Is it a habit of "tryannical dictator"s to spread power amongst the citizen nations?

Calm down people!

Regional laws / Senate / government / etc... have no bearing on the rules of NationStates as enforced by the mods. It is the responsibility of the players to make their role/gameplay fit within the bounds of NS Rules. The mods do not enforce agreements between players, nations, regions, etc..., just NS Rules.

The question within the context of this forum, the NS Moderation forum, is purely whether or not NS Rules were violated or not, by whom, and how. Everything else does not belong in this forum and is left for players to figure out amongst themselves.

In order to determine whether or not Cu Mara violated NS Rules by ejecting natives, the following reasoning can be followed:

1- Determine whether Cu Mara was internally elected or not. This is the case when a nation has delegacy by having the most native endorsements in the region. (Note: this completely disregards any forum-based elections, regional Senate, etc...)

2- If Cu Mara was internally elected, Cu Mara would have the right to ban a reasonable amount of natives from the region. An unofficial rule-of-thumb would be something like 40%, but it varies depending on the circumstances.

3- If not internally elected, no native may be banned. Only a few may then be tactically ejected.

Note how none of 1-3 bothers examining whether or not Cu Mara was native. Something like that may influence that 40% a bit, who knows, but it doesn't alter the basic concepts.

Ballotonia (the above is my understanding of the rules. Ask a mod to be sure)

Agreed. Look at all of Cu Mara endorsements. Most if not all are long term natives of Ireland. There have been only a few added in the past few weeks from new membership. The four members that were ejected all were endorsing Cu Mara as of yesterday. XML feed should be able to show such.

Cu Mara retains 20 endorsements. For a long while, he had 24. The nations that withdrew their endorsements did-so because he would not ban Orgybot and Brega & Mide.

We're talking about roughly 5 nations out of 65...

Plus they were conspiring to have him removed from the delegacy after they voted him in themselves...

I appreciate your attempt to being some sense to this thread Ballotonia but as I have warned previously these people are not rational and this is just the beginning of the propaganda I'm afraid...

They will stop at nothing to get their way...

And I mean nothing... :sniper:

*Just had to use these sniper smilies! They're excellent!!!

Ballotonia. As you know being calm and being irish goes together like oil and water. We are working against the immortal PF/ES and his crew. They will stop at nothing less of insanity.

Thanks again to the mods, for ruling fairly and justly in this case!

"Cu Mara, being supported and held in office by native endorsements, is thusly considered a native delegate and has the power to ban if necessary. The problem comes in when a large /external/ bloc of nations invade and /force/ their choice of delegate on a region.

Cu Mara is acting within his rights and no moderator action will be taken." - NationStates Moderators

Sad ruling, kind of suspect as a look at the XML feeds proves he is an invader delegate and not a native! He is a native of Northern Ireland and not Ireland!

How can the mods view an invader delegate of Northern Ireland as the rightful delegate? One look at the XML feeds prove he has just move to Ireland from his stint as delegate of Northern Ireland, which he took over in another coup. He just couped Ireland and XML feeds and screenshots of his own words prove he's an invader, the ruling makes little to no sense so can we please have an explanation as this is disgraceful.

Another look at the nations supporting him prove that Keane 16 and others are invaders, this nation in particular is the multi using Orgybot who was kicked for UN violations repeatedly.

Thank you in advance.

There is an existing topic on this already ...

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=387473

... which you started. Do we really need two?

Also note the XML feed proven invader delegate Cu Mara has kept natives on the ban list, such as the rightful delegate Bohola and others, thanks.

You were never a native of Ireland anyways. The mods have checks and balances. Let them deal with this. They will see what you guys are really up to anyways. PF/ES power over the delegate ended with Bohola. He can no longer pull any strings. End of discussion.

Sad ruling, kind of suspect as a look at the XML feeds proves he is an invader delegate and not a native! He is a native of Northern Ireland and not Ireland!

If you take a look at the rules Ballotonia put up, whether Cu Mara is a native or not doesn't matter. Whether he was elected by natives does. It seems the Mods have decided he was. Live with it.

Ceili Cowboy needs two threads because he/she is trying to distract attention from the fact that this case has already been dealt with...

:mp5:

How can the mods view an invader delegate of Northern Ireland as the rightful delegate? One look at the XML feeds prove he has just move to Ireland from his stint as delegate of Northern Ireland, which he took over in another coup. He just couped Ireland and XML feeds and screenshots of his own words prove he's an invader, the ruling makes little to no sense so can we please have an explanation as this is disgraceful.

Another look at the nations supporting him prove that Keane 16 and others are invaders, this nation in particular is the multi using Orgybot who was kicked for UN violations repeatedly.

Thank you in advance.
Don't make a second thread on this. iMerge.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

I thought mass bootings was only allowed in a Warzone! We were NATIVES of Ireland. I have resided in Ireland for over a year. Cu Mara, beyond a shadow of a doubt, conspired to do the very thing we were booted for. Removing a democratically elected official from power.

I thought mass bootings was only allowed in a Warzone! We were NATIVES of Ireland.

And four or five out of sixty-someodd is nowhere near a "mass ejection". A moderator has already dealt with this.

Cu Mara's status as native or non-native isn't the issue, the fact he has been internally elected by the natives is, and this has already been decided on.

All your regional politics and elections have absolutely zero weight to any moderator action. If there was "voter fraud" that is a regional matter and not the concern of the moderators.

http://rpstudios.ian-justman.com/junk/CGgoods/Modsig2.JPG
~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~Master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

Sad ruling, kind of suspect as a look at the XML feeds proves he is an invader delegate and not a native! He is a native of Northern Ireland and not Ireland!
That's irrelevant. His support comes from natives. Where he's from doesn't enter into it.

A real invader delegate occurs when a large bloc of non-native nations (i.e. "invaders") come in and elect their choice for delegate. As there's no "invaders" involved, this isn't an invasion.

I checked with the other Mods on this decision and we're agreed. Being supported by natives, Cu Mara is considered a native delegate for purposes of the rules and is therefore well within his rights.

Also, please note that the XML feed is not a panacea, nor does it absolutely define native or invader status. All it does is establish relative longevity in the region, as compared to other nations in the region. Two nations appearing next to each other could have joined the region seconds apart or a year apart, and any regional movement resets a nation's position.

Although we respectfully disagree with this decision, it is final and binding.

Thank you for your time, moderator staff. :)

Although we respectfully disagree with this decision, it is final and binding.

Thank you for your time, moderator staff. :)


Very conciliatory...

Good work Prodigal Fenian!!! ;)

And sure enough Ceili Cowboy bites the dust today!!!

See you next time Eire Shamrock / Prodiga Fenian...

I'll be waiting...

:mp5: