NationStates Jolt Archive

I think it's about time that a particularly annoying issue was addressed on the NS fora: the IGNORE.

As we are all aware, the IGNORE is a simple method of getting across to n00bs that their attacks are not acceptable, usually due to randomness (Nation arrives on fora, immediately declares war on THE WORLD/some randoms nation) or godmoding (Nation arrives with a fully-developed UBER-ARMY O' D()()M et cetera). The IGNORE is in these cases invaluable for use in letting decent RPers not have to waste time with this kind of idiocy.

However, what of the frivolous ignore? Many are the times I've seen sequences such as this...

Nation 1: We are invading location X, owned by nation 2, for reason Y.

Nation 2: I didn't plan this with you. Ignored.

Nation 1: *Looks annoyed*

...or this...

Nation 1: We are moving into nation 2's territory, because we consider them a threat to our way of life.

Nation 2: That is not a realistic reason for a war. Ignored.

Nation 1: *Looks angry*

...or even this...

Nation 1: Our forces are attacking Nation 2 for reason Z.

Nation 2: I've got 35,000 planes patrolling constantly and 3 million troops there, so you'd never get even started. Ignored.

Nation 1: *Pulls out hair and retires to rubber room*

These kinds of things seem to occur quite a lot around the forums, especially International Incidents. They aren't just common among new players or somewhat less high-grade RPers such as myself either. Many a large war boils down to an IGNORE fest because the respective sides all refuse to accept things.

In these cases, I would say that the IGNORE is the worst possible form of godmode. At least godmodes usually have some identifiable feature (think "I deploy my unbeatable energy shield" etc). But a frivolous IGNORE is totally impenetrable, and (as one would imply by "frivolous") large unjustified. So you didn't plan out a war with someone?

Wars aren't planned out between people in RL, for starters; in any case, why do you need a plan Why not just work out individual important bits as they come?

Who's to say what's a realistic reason for war?

Who's to say how strong a defence is?

Who's to say, in essence, that you have any right to just slap a big fat IGNORE on someone?

Now I know that the IGNORE has a perfectly good purpose, and have used it (rarely) in the past. But frivolous and pointless IGNOREs are one of the most irritating and unnecessary probelms of the NS forums, and they detract immensely not only from the general good Rping going on, but also from the validity of IGNORING. While I'm aware I haven't presented a solution, I nonetheless thing this something to be considered.

Thankyou.

Personally, if you're going to ignore someone, just do it physically; there's no reason why you need to shout it at the top of your lungs for a spam-fest to occur. Ignore = spam, when it comes down to it and should be punishable as such, IMHO.

The real point of RP wars is to tell a good story, not to see who's better or worse. That's why alot of unplanned attacks are ignored. I personally have no desire to compare penises with another nation who decided they wanted to attack me. I RP to tell a good story, not to win. If someone randomly decides they want to attack me, without even showing the tiniest bit of respect in asking me if I was willing to devote the time to writing a war with them, then I most certainly will ignore them.

Yes, but many people use 'selective' ignore, not to avoid a good story but to win.

Hmmm. many good points are brought up. I certainly will take this post to mind when rPing against some people on the forums....

This is indeed a very wise issue to be brought forth to the Moderators and the community as a hole. I agree with the respected poster of this topic in his/her point. Sometimes an IGNORE is not a good idea, and sometimes its just PLAIN out WRONG for someone to IGNORE. IGNOREing should only be used in the most dire of cases.

Anywho, to prevent myself from going further into a useless explanation, I will stop here. :)

Perhaps a solution would be to make "frivolous ignoring" (which can also be used as a subtle and "justified" flame, indicating that "you're below me" and so forth) be a valid complaint; should a significant number of players complain of such behaviour, perhaps it could be investigated by the mods. Should they side with the accusers, the guilty party would be warned and placed on a list of Frivolous Ignorers; three counts of FI'ing would result in a ban. Just an idea.

The real point of RP wars is to tell a good story, not to see who's better or worse. That's why alot of unplanned attacks are ignored. I personally have no desire to compare penises with another nation who decided they wanted to attack me. I RP to tell a good story, not to win. If someone randomly decides they want to attack me, without even showing the tiniest bit of respect in asking me if I was willing to devote the time to writing a war with them, then I most certainly will ignore them.

But who's to say whether the story's good or not? How do you know unless you're permitted to try it? If I made a legitimate and decently RPed attack upon you because I considered your domestic policies to be too abhorrent to be allowed to continue, and you hadn'rt planned it, why does that constitute an IGNORE-worthy offence?

But who's to say whether the story's good or not? How do you know unless you're permitted to try it? If I made a legitimate and decently RPed attack upon you because I considered your domestic policies to be too abhorrent to be allowed to continue, and you hadn'rt planned it, why does that constitute an IGNORE-worthy offence?

You really can't MAKE people RP if they don't want to. It's certainly nothing that deserves getting banned from the game. If you RP an attack on my nation without contacting me beforehand to see if I'm willing to devote the time and energy to such a war, why should I be forced to? Why does someone else get to decide what RPs I will and won't participate in? I don't think you can force people to RP according to your own rules.

Perhaps you aren't prepared to devote the time and energy to it, in which case there's nothing for it. I've been involved in things I've not been willing to devote the time and energy to, but I haven't just bellowed "IGNORED" at the perpetrator. Perhaps an OOC explanation and and indication that that's the case and could it please be put off might be an idea, or maybe just informing them OOC and then seeing if that can be translated to IC action in some way? I don't make people RP to any set of rules I've laid down; in fact, the only people I see setting down rules are those who demand a reason which they declare viable or convenient for wars.

Perhaps you aren't prepared to devote the time and energy to it, in which case there's nothing for it. I've been involved in things I've not been willing to devote the time and energy to, but I haven't just bellowed "IGNORED" at the perpetrator. Perhaps an OOC explanation and and indication that that's the case and could it please be put off might be an idea, or maybe just informing them OOC and then seeing if that can be translated to IC action in some way? I don't make people RP to any set of rules I've laid down; in fact, the only people I see setting down rules are those who demand a reason which they declare viable or convenient for wars.

But how can you justify banning people simply for not wanting to RP certain RPs?

Not wanting to Rp certain Rps is one thing; it happens to us all. But repeatedly ignoring RPs simply because you don't feel like doing it seems to me to be both immature and insulting, and a godmode of the worst kind.

Per a gazillion precedents:

The Moderators Do Not Regulate Roleplay.

I know there's a precedent on the question as to whether an IGNORE constitutes flaming, but I don't recall it and I don't feel like digging it up.

*waits for a mod*

Per a gazillion precedents:

The Moderators Do Not Regulate Roleplay.

I know there's a precedent on the question as to whether an IGNORE constitutes flaming, but I don't recall it and I don't feel like digging it up.

*waits for a mod*

Well perhaps someone ought to do so. After all, that's what a fair part of these fora are about, is it not?

Per a gazillion precedents:

The Moderators Do Not Regulate Roleplay.
Absolutely correct.

I know there's a precedent on the question as to whether an IGNORE constitutes flaming, but I don't recall it and I don't feel like digging it up.

*waits for a mod*
Calling for an "ignore" campaign against someone constitutes flamebait. Posting an "ignore" in a thread that you are not involved in is spam. If you were previously involved in the thread, but then decided to ignore it for whatever reason, then you may post a notice that you're ignoring the thread and are consequently no longer involved. If you are named as a participant or target in a thread and you've decided to ignore it, then you may post that you're ignoring the thread.

Well perhaps someone ought to do so. After all, that's what a fair part of these fora are about, is it not?
Unfortunately, we don't have time to police this. If someone is posting spam or abuse, then please do let us know. If it's just a roleplay dispute, then you have to resolve it amongst yourselves.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

You could just, ya know, not read threads by people you don't like.

If a player continually ignores your actions, stop trying to involve them. International Incidents cycles its front back about ever 13 minutes. Surely you can find someone else to role-play with.

"Free-form consentual role-play" is a two way street.

What about people who continually do it? Ain't just me who's had this happen, you know. And while it's obviously impossible for mods to be continually monitoring II in the manner of a prison guard, it's nonetheless rather annoying to have someone exploit the system for their own gain.

Then use Jolt's ignore function.

So the solution to something irritating and soluble is to pretend it's not there?

DPUO, with your permission, I say we post this thing in II and see what the players have to say. Same goes for NS.

Let's put it out there for the community and see what everyone says. f mods can't police thyis, why not let the community as a whole decide how to police this?

*Shrugskiy* Be my guest. If a visiting mod would shift it there I'd be very appreciative. :)

Well perhaps someone ought to do so. After all, that's what a fair part of these fora are about, is it not?


Unfortunately, we don't have time to police this. If someone is posting spam or abuse, then please do let us know. If it's just a roleplay dispute, then you have to resolve it amongst yourselves.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

The solution is simple. If someone claims to be a "heap uber massive power" and refuses all challenges - you're looking at a gimp with issues, and you ignore them, and you move on. You're not going to make them less gimpish, you're not going to "fix" them - they've got their head firmly up their arse to avoid the light of day, and nothing you do is going to do anything about that.

Consider - you actually have a war with them. You're not talking about someone with reason, you're talking about a gimp who will never roll over. So no matter what force you put down, nothing is going to happen - wankery will be the call of the day. God himself could show up, and there would still be some sort of uberwank to take their head out of the noose.

It's pointless. Its not just, but there it is. The only thing to do is to ignore them, talk to those you know and add to the quiet ignore, until eventually they have no one to play with that might concern you or yours.

Since I've discussed the issue of ignores in the past, I feel I have to say something.

If someone consistently ignores a well-planned RP'd attack, they lose credibility and reputation in NS among roleplayers. I don't have any trouble with the idea that someone should contact you if they want to involve you in a RP (such as launch an attack) since I myself insist on it. I don't always plan every RP out to the nth detail, but laying out some ground rules can be helpful.

Sdaeriji is absolutely right when he says that no one can force you to RP with someone if you don't want to. If it's because you don't like the player's style of RP, that's valid. If it's because the person didn't contact you, perhaps you should just 1) apologize for not contacting him and 2) try to run the RP by the player. If you're doing it because you're afraid of "losing," then you lose respect among the serious gamers.

Sarz: That smacks to me of the argument that criminals are punished by being "named and shamed" in certain cases, a view to which I do not subscribe, but anyway: yes, it's polite to contact someone before you launch a war with them. Doesn't mean that the attacking nation must do so, does it? I notice that the nations who insist upon this with the greatest vehemence are often the nations which launch attacks against nations (or make moves on them) without warning to them, and who, for that matter, are generally the first to IGNORE any move our counter-move made not approved by them. It's just a tad unjust, is it not, when one player is somehow accorded the rights to throw a tantrum when something he dislikes happens, while another might be told to take it like a man?

Vastiva: Odd as it sounds, the very knowledge that these people sit there and get away with being the gimps they are is part of my irritation; I find it quite damnable that people take the attitude that such imbeciles, rather than being dealt with as they ought to be, are merely something to be quietly put to one side.

When new nations ignore me, I direct them to one of my favorite posts ever written (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=5267814&postcount=1). They usually ignore the post about ignoring, but hey, at least I can say I tried.