NationStates Jolt Archive

I submitted a proposal the other day (Voter Qualification) and got some immediate interest and moderate support. Today, however, it is no longer there. Gone. Voting was supposed to continue through 12/4...but today it's missing.

If a forum mod checks these posts, can I get an explanation as to why my proposal was removed? Considering the idiocy of a fair number and the redundancy of many others...why was my mildly and thoughtfully worded proposal tossed out? I've read the guidelines for posting proposals and I believe mine followed those guides pretty closely.

An explanation would be nice please. Also, perhaps you could rig the system to drop a memo to the originating nation that their proposal was deleted so they don't have to waste time looking for it. That might be nice.

I comment only on the last part. A TG to the nation that submitted the proposal might be useful.. I would like this (though I submit little or no proposals).. it would be useful.

Hm... I believe that was during my marathon cleaning of the UN Proposal list. If I remember correctly, it was deleted for subject/category violations. It was either Human Rights or Furtherment of Democracy when it was restricting rights. It should be under 'Political Stability'.

I think. If you have a copy of it, toss it here and I can let you know exactly. On the plus side, I didn't toss you a warning for it. Consider it a freebie.

I comment only on the last part. A TG to the nation that submitted the proposal might be useful.. I would like this (though I submit little or no proposals).. it would be useful.
Normally, I do. However, I often get lazy when I'm in the middle of nuking massive amounts of proposals. However, I only add a warning tag when I send an explanitory telegram, so he wasn't warned.

Um...okay. Thanks I guess.

You open to a few suggestions?

While I'm sure you have many items to dispense with for various and sundry reasons, is it possible to automate the deletions to drop the originator of the proposal a notice that it was dumped? This was my first attempt at a proposal so I put some thought into the wording and such...and didn't know to keep a copy.

Also, I'd contend that since it was a proposal to affect voting and enfranchisement that it seemed to apply to "Furtherment of Democracy" much more aptly than "Political Stability". While I certainly acknowledge that that may be a judgement call and the mods are the judges...how was I to know better which to choose and that if I chose wrong it gets nuked?

Certainly you can't define and pigeonhole every single possibility ahead of time (who could expect you to do that?) but does the necessary penalty for diverging from the mod's judgement call mean automatic deletion? Could it not be adjusted to reflect what the mod thinks it ought to be? I know that means the mods get saddled with making changes to selected categories but they're already taking the time to peruse them and take some kind of action to delete them...would the corrective action be any greater burden than the deleting action?

Couple of curiosities is all. Would be nice to have my original proposal wording so I could copy and paste it into a new attempt...

While I'm sure you have many items to dispense with for various and sundry reasons, is it possible to automate the deletions to drop the originator of the proposal a notice that it was dumped?

Since proposals are deleted "by hand," so to say, the moderator that deleted the proposal would need to send out the telegram and to say they're quite busy with other issues is a bit of an understatement.

If you post your proposals in the UN forum, chances are you'll get much needed feedback before you submit it to the list that might work out most of the bugs.

is it possible to automate the deletions to drop the originator of the proposal a notice that it was dumped?

Could it not be adjusted to reflect what the mod thinks it ought to be? ...would the corrective action be any greater burden than the deleting action?
As I understand it, the steps necessary to contact a nation: Log on to the Mod Centre
Do a lookup search for the nation name to see if there are existing infractions
Open The World tab to search for a nation (unnecessary if linking from a proposal page)
Open the nation page
Type or paste a message
Go back to the Mod Centre and record any actions taken
Given that on the day in question, Hack cleared out approximately 25 pages x 5 proposals each ... in addition to his other modly duties ... in addition to whatever might have been going on in his life ... I don't think it unreasonable that you didn't get a note.

As to part two, it is my understanding that anything in the proposals list can be either left or deleted. Editing is not an option.

I see.

Well, perhaps it was my real life occupation of web application developer getting the better of me then. I look for automated solutions if the "by hand" ones are onerous.

(Note: Not sure what database you guys use for NationStates but almost all have a trigger feature that could be built to automatically create a new message to the proposal originator when the proposal is deleted...perhaps 10-15 lines of SQL code, max.)

Thanks for the explanations and I will be more careful in the future.

(Note: Not sure what database you guys use for NationStates... )
Database, HA!

They WISH they had built the engine around a database, but Max didn't think of that for his little "book-promoting game" that wasn't likely to attract but perhaps a couple of hundred users. I'm sure Admin could provide a better answer, but my understanding is that all coding has been kludged into the system despite the lack of a proper engine.


"The amazing thing about a dancing bear is not how well he dances."

Well, okay. Grab bag today. First, how I deal with proposals when I'm not swamped:

Load my Mod nation
Go to the Proposal list
Zap to the last page and read through them backwards
When I find a bad one, I click the special GM link (Mod: Delete This Proposal)
A new window automatically opens, taking me to the Mod Centre with the Proposal loaded
Click the delete button
Load the nation in the Centre
Send a telegram explaining the rule violation, usually closing with "X has been deleted". If it's a really minor thing, I'll add "No warning has been given"
Add a warning tag, usually in the following way: "UN Warning (infraction) Month, Day Year -MGH"
Close the window and go back to Step 3

If it's a second bad proposal, I usually add a note like "Please note that this is your second proposal to be deleted for violating UN Rules, a third may result in your ejection. You are strongly urged to go to the UN Forum to learn how to properly craft UN Proposals."

If it's their third, they get ejected and a note saying why sent.

When I'm swamped, I skip from Step 6 to 10. Which means no telegram and no warning. Unless it's really bad (ie: "Kill All Whatevers") The full process takes about 3 minutes per bad proposal (assuming things aren't running slow). When there's only about 20 pages, I can do the whole thing in an hour or two. When it's longer, I usually take a shortcut, as I figure it's better to clean the bad out. Of course, it depends on how tired I am, how distracted, if I'm doing it because I want to or if I have to, etc etc etc.

And, no, there's no way to streamline this method. That's about as efficient as it gets.

Now, for this specific proposal...

Also, I'd contend that since it was a proposal to affect voting and enfranchisement that it seemed to apply to "Furtherment of Democracy" much more aptly than "Political Stability".

From what I remember, your Proposal was placing restrictions on who could vote as it required language proficiency and literacy. Furtherment of Democracy tends to be about removing such restrictions, not adding them.

Certainly you can't define and pigeonhole every single possibility ahead of time (who could expect you to do that?) but does the necessary penalty for diverging from the mod's judgement call mean automatic deletion? Could it not be adjusted to reflect what the mod thinks it ought to be? I know that means the mods get saddled with making changes to selected categories but they're already taking the time to peruse them and take some kind of action to delete them...would the corrective action be any greater burden than the deleting action?

While I'd love to adjust what the categories mean and do, I can't. I don't have the access or the ability to recode the game. Sal's got a couple things in the works, but time's kinda slim now. Hopefully some new categories will be added "soon", but I don't believe there's any plans to adjust Furtherment of Democracy or Political Stability.