NationStates Jolt Archive

I just posted a new thread in General as 'Texans - Lazy Bastards'

It has been changed to 'Remote Controlled Hunting' as the title was misleading.

I would like to state that that is a load of rubbish.

My thread title was tongue in cheek or has humour been completely vanquished from Nation States?

I'm admin on a humor website, and we adopted a policy that while posts belonged to the posters, titles belonged to the board. Not everyone is going to click the link to read your idea of humor, but everyone viewing that forum will see that apparent slam against Texans.

Humor has its place. Misleading and derogatory topic titles would not be that place.

I'm admin on a humor website, and we adopted a policy that while posts belonged to the posters, titles belonged to the board. Not everyone is going to click the link to read your idea of humor, but everyone viewing that forum will see that apparent slam against Texans.

Humor has its place. Misleading and derogatory topic titles would not be that place.

Oh what a load of rubbish.

This is not your humour website nor are you a mod.

Your points are completely spurious and quite frankly I cannot believe I am spending time answering your post.

Oh what a load of rubbish.

This is not your humour website nor are you a mod.

Your points are completely spurious and quite frankly I cannot believe I am spending time answering your post.

Okay okay, keep it civil...

This is not your humour website nor are you a mod.

It may not be Fris' site, but he has a good handle on how this site does work. Unfortunately, your threat title was flamebait, regardless of whether or not your topic was humorous or serious or whatever.

Once again -

None of you are mods. This is addressed to the mods.

The title was not flame bait in any stretch of the imagination.

good grief!

Ok, so say some hard-wroking, upstanding citizen from Texas comes along, sees your post, and takes offense. They complain to the mods, and the title gets changed, and you possibly warned.

That is flamebait, in the most basic definition of it.

And while that above posters are not mods, they do know what they are talking about, far more than most players of NS - myself included. I am not a mod either, but you should not be attacking them for trying to explain to you what happened.

The title was not flame bait in any stretch of the imagination.

Only in your opinion, I may not be a mod, but I know flamebait when I see it.

Once again -

None of you are mods. This is addressed to the mods.

The title was not flame bait in any stretch of the imagination.

good grief!

You are also not a mod, so it may be wise to allow your question to be answered. If the input of non-mods bothers you, then ignore them until you receive the answer to the question you asked. If you choose to respond, then so be it, you have that right as clearly as they had.

My point being, it isn't wise to snap at lessor advisors while the true advisors are about. It reduces the validity of your claims. It is difficult to argue that you are being unjustly treated when you are unjustly treating others.

Once again -

None of you are mods. This is addressed to the mods.

The title was not flame bait in any stretch of the imagination.

good grief!

My non-moderator opinion:
I think flame bait is best judged by the person who is reading it. I've seen other situations where somebody was IMHO trying to take a minor dig at somebody and would claim it wasn't a flamebait ... that is the thing about flamebaiting, it is designed to bait and anger, and not outright attack.

But you are right, the ultimate decision lies with the mods. If the title was changed, it sounds like a moderator felt that others might be bothered by your title.

Now, as for getting a response from the moderators, I recently took the advice that I've seen here and set up mIRC on my machine and visited the #themodcave channel. (I can find the link and instructions if you'd like.) I found that just venting and flagging what I felt was a serious problem was enough to make *me* feel better.

I'm thinking you too might feel better if you go to the channel for a response from somebody who is a moderator.

My second bit of advise, if this was a misunderstanding and you did not mean to offend people with your title, does it really hurt to have it changed? If the answer is yes, implying that you are attached to that title, it might help to explain to the moderators why your original title is better.

For the record, I actually was raised in Texas and while your original title is a horrible generalization, and if it had said "Iranian" instead of "Texan" it would have been changed by the mods just the same, I actually didn't find it that offensive ... personally. But I still think the best test is to run through other state / country names and see if it is offensive:

'Texans - Lazy Bastards'

Palestinians - Lazy Bastards
Iranians - Lazy Bastards
Mexicans - Lazy Bastards
Germans - Lazy Bastards
Martians - Lazy Bastards
Australians - Lazy Bastards
New Yorkers - Lazy Bastards
etc.

My god....are you people not able to read?

If you were then you would notice that in my original post that my complaint is that the title was changed as it was 'misleading'....nothing about it being flamebait or insulting or anything else but MISLEADING!

There seems to be far too many bar room lawyers here....jeesh!

When someone asks for a thread to be mod-only, I think it is fair we give him that respect. But, honestly, in my also non-mod opinion, such a title IS flamebait.

I just posted a new thread in General as 'Texans - Lazy Bastards'

It has been changed to 'Remote Controlled Hunting' as the title was misleading.

I would like to state that that is a load of rubbish.

My thread title was tongue in cheek or has humour been completely vanquished from Nation States?
I don't see anything in the first post that even asks for a moderator response, much less declares the topic "mod-only". Vonners made a general statement, and people have been making general responses. I don't think anyone is out of line here at all.

I read the original post. The post is about how anyone on the internet would be able to hunt by remote control on a Texas ranch. So therefore it is not Texans who are lazy bastards but everyone else on the internet who would hunt in this fashion. I think the Mods changed the name because it is in fact misleading, and could be mistaken for "Flame Bait" even though that is not what the post is intended to be. I think the original title may have gotten more hits, but the new title is more in tune with the subect.

iLock pending post.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

For the record, I am the Moderator who handled this case.

I will note that as of Post #6 in this thread....
None of you are mods. This is addressed to the mods.
...Vonners states (however implicitly) that he wants a Mod-only response.

The title was not flame bait in any stretch of the imagination.
Incorrect.

My god....are you people not able to read?

If you were then you would notice that in my original post that my complaint is that the title was changed as it was 'misleading'....nothing about it being flamebait or insulting or anything else but MISLEADING!
I will admit that “misleading” is not, in-and-of-itself, usually grounds for an official warning (unless it can be construed as “defamation” or “malicious” under the NationStates Terms and Conditions) or even grounds for official action. However, a topic title can be changed if the content of the first post is not related to the topic title. The topic title said “Texans – Lazy Bastards”, but the article was about a Texan offering a lazy hunting service, not Texans using that service. Thus, any attempt at humor talking about Texans being lazy bastards does not make sense to begin with.

In this instance, though, I am primarily using “misleading” as a euphemism for “I think that this is trolling, but I’m not feeling so heavy-handed today as to actually label it as such and issue an official warning.”

Now, I’m still willing to let this go without an official warning, as I don’t think that the original offense was serious (at least, not serious enough). Nevertheless, the original title is not being restored.

Alternatively, I can issue an official warning against you for forum trolling.

iUnlock, but I prefer that only “Vonners” respond. Others should not post without good reason (a related question on rules enforcement policy would be a good reason).

“Think about it for a moment.”

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

For the record, I am the Moderator who handled this case.

I will note that as of Post #6 in this thread....

...Vonners states (however implicitly) that he wants a Mod-only response.


Incorrect.


I will admit that “misleading” is not, in-and-of-itself, usually grounds for an official warning (unless it can be construed as “defamation” or “malicious” under the NationStates Terms and Conditions) or even grounds for official action. However, a topic title can be changed if the content of the first post is not related to the topic title. The topic title said “Texans – Lazy Bastards”, but the article was about a Texan offering a lazy hunting service, not Texans using that service. Thus, any attempt at humor talking about Texans being lazy bastards does not make sense to begin with.

In this instance, though, I am primarily using “misleading” as a euphemism for “I think that this is trolling, but I’m not feeling so heavy-handed today as to actually label it as such and issue an official warning.”

Now, I’m still willing to let this go without an official warning, as I don’t think that the original offense was serious (at least, not serious enough). Nevertheless, the original title is not being restored.

Alternatively, I can issue an official warning against you for forum trolling.

iUnlock, but I prefer that only “Vonners” respond. Others should not post without good reason (a related question on rules enforcement policy would be a good reason).

“Think about it for a moment.”

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator


Thank you Cog....

Firstly - the posting on this thread by others. While I understand that there are those who feel the need to put their oar in, this is the area where one is allowed to ask the mod for explanations of actions that they have taken. As none of the people who posted did nothing but offer their reasons for the mod action and nothing else is, as far as I am concerned, a waste of bandwidth.

Now if the posts had been questions about the action or the like I would have no objection, but they were posts that gave interpertations of why the action was taken and as they were not mods...well like I said ...a waste of bandwidth.

I might have been harsh in my posts but then I really do not suffer fools. Yes I am a 'bastard' in this sense.

Now to the issue of flamebaiting.

I do not think it was flamebaiting. It was humour English style. Afterall it was a Texan who 'invented' the remote hunting technology. Hence Lazy. As for the bastard part...ok...obviously I upset some peoples sensibilities but over here the use of that word in the context of a humourous discriptor is not uncommon. In fact its very common.

For example if some one wins something one does hear .... 'you jammy bastard' or 'you lucky bastard' etc.

So insofar as I can see I am not flamebaiting. I am using venacular expressions that are very common in my society.

Trolling

No way. I do not troll. Never. I might take the piss or be heavy handed but I do not troll. Trolling on this site is a big no no and I have never done that as it is explicitly stated in the T&C that trolling is not allowed.

(why is there a thread debating the removal of fundimentalist religionists allowed to stay on the General board?)

Reinstatement of the title

Of course I do not expect that. You made the decision to change it and I can see why you did that. I hope my explanation will hopefully help mods not to make a snap judgement. What if you had been in a 'bad mood'...and banned me? I for one would not have been pleased.

Summary -

I took this to Moderation as I wanted some clarity to the issue of 'humourous' title subjects.

Cog - given what I have written can you perhaps provide this clarity please?

Thanking you in advance.

ps...you can dete the other thread if you want....

you posted this on the other thread...


NationStates Game Mod

Cogitation's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,114
Remember when I said "iLock pending post" in the other topic? That meant that I intended to post, but didn't have time right that moment. I also wanted to stop everyone else from posting, considering that you asked for a Mod-only response.

Reposting a locked topic is a bad idea and can get you officially warned for spam.

Well I had no idea that that was what you meant. Sorry...and thanks...again ;)

Firstly - the posting on this thread by others. While I understand that there are those who feel the need to put their oar in, this is the area where one is allowed to ask the mod for explanations of actions that they have taken. As none of the people who posted did nothing but offer their reasons for the mod action and nothing else is, as far as I am concerned, a waste of bandwidth.

Now if the posts had been questions about the action or the like I would have no objection, but they were posts that gave interpertations of why the action was taken and as they were not mods...well like I said ...a waste of bandwidth.
We do enforce a policy of "Players may request a Moderator-only response", but you should explicitly state it as such.

I might have been harsh in my posts but then I really do not suffer fools. Yes I am a 'bastard' in this sense.
You might want to be careful about that; I can imagine how that could get you into trouble. You weren't exactly polite in this topic, but it's not really serious enough that I'd warn you for it. Nevertheless, you are most in danger of crossing the line when tempers are rising. You're not required to suffer fools, but don't allow your emotions to get the best of you.

Now to the issue of flamebaiting.

I do not think it was flamebaiting. <snip>
Flamebaiting is typically defined as being directed towards another NationStates player. Your original title was directed at Texans in general.

Trolling

No way. I do not troll. Never. I might take the piss or be heavy handed but I do not troll. Trolling on this site is a big no no and I have never done that as it is explicitly stated in the T&C that trolling is not allowed.
It's possible to troll inadvertently. Tone-of-voice doesn't carry well over the internet, and when tone-of-voice is taken out, the underlying meaning can be badly misread. As a result, what was meant as a joke can be taken as a serious insult and trigger an official warning.

(why is there a thread debating the removal of fundimentalist religionists allowed to stay on the General board?)
Haven't seen it. Link?

Reinstatement of the title

Of course I do not expect that. You made the decision to change it and I can see why you did that. I hope my explanation will hopefully help mods not to make a snap judgement. What if you had been in a 'bad mood'...and banned me? I for one would not have been pleased.

Summary -

I took this to Moderation as I wanted some clarity to the issue of 'humourous' title subjects.

Cog - given what I have written can you perhaps provide this clarity please?

Thanking you in advance.

If a comment is directed at a particular NationStates player, then whether or not it constitutes flamebait or humor is subject to the interpretation used by the target. There have been cases (though rather rare) where I issued an offiical warning for flamebait and the target of the flamebait told me that the comment was not meant in earnest; I have retracted warnings that I've issued in these cases.

Trolling is a gray zone. Additionally, because the targets of the comments are so numerous and widespread, there's no one person who can step forward and say "I don't think he was being serious; I'll testify on his behalf". We do allow the discussion of controversial subjects, and as a result the discussions are going to get rather heated. However, if you appear to be making controversial comments solely for the purpose of making people mad, then that's trolling. If you make a comment like "Texans - Lazy Bastards", then you had better make it clear that it's a joke (and it wasn't clear, in your case) or be fully prepared to logically defend your statement.


--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

dodgy thread - http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=374501

dodgy thread - http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=374501
Okay, I'm going to have to get another Mod to help me review this one.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Please do not lock this yet....I'll come back to you tomorrow...its bedtime...

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=390581&page=1&pp=15

Maybe not entirely the same kind of issue but there are enough similarities...

Unless this has not been noticed yet....

I know I have been gone for ages....work work work ;)

Have you guys come to a resolution in regards to humour?