NationStates Jolt Archive

Yo, Jap was online trying to figure out what was going on, that's the only reason he was still on NS. After an appeal, he was going to leave! As previously asserted, the links mentioned were OLD links! Stuff he'd already been punished for! Jap is seriously trying to be good, and the mods aren't giving him any room to try!

Impartial mods my ass.
Dude this aint helpin ya make your case.
(In before the lock )
(hi fives Myrth)

It's called "DEAT-on-Sight". Meaning that all incarnations of Japaica will be summarily deleted. It doesn't matter how good his intentions are, under NationStates policy a DEAT-on-Sight player is, well, DEAT on sight.

Dude this aint helpin ya make your case.
(In before the lock )
(hi fives Myrth)
Point...edited...

It's called "DEAT-on-Sight". Meaning that all incarnations of Japaica will be summarily deleted. It doesn't matter how good his intentions are, under NationStates policy a DEAT-on-Sight player is, well, DEAT on sight.
but why was a DoS issued? Even the mods admitted that the "dirt" was old. Jap is actually trying to be good now.

Yeah, i was confused there myself. Here Cog says he's banned:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7436729&postcount=34

Which I would assumed meant an IP ban. It was also fairly clear that Jap could contact the mods in order to get some sort of appeal. However, Jap was still able to post. Meaning that he could have been banned from only the NationStates game, or the mods repealed their decision. Shown here:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=372376
(post 2 is a prime example of this)

Now, as you'll note that all of the posts in question were made by "crazy japaicans", which was punished previously. Now, I know that the US constitution doesn't apply in NationStates, but I'm pretty sure this is what we'd call "double jeopardy". He already paid the price once. If you'll notice, his more recent posts were considerably improved. If you'll give me some time, I'll post examples.

Thank you for your time.

DOS means that the mods don't want the player on this game, and that they will not argue with the person anymore.

Look at this here:

http://www.myfreeib.com/members/index.php?showtopic=749&st=20

Note Japaica's post that he learned what DoS meant today. I didn't know what it meant either, and I've read a lot of the FAQs pretty thouroughly. He was merely excited from the idea that he might be able to post, he was not trying to intentionally disobey moderator rules.

I dare everyone to do a forum search of Japaican Madness's (his last incarnation before the DoS was issued.

I found quite a bit of proof that he had changed. This thread for example:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=372147

And there were several posts of his in this thread:
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=370962

As you'll note, most of these posts are completely on topic, save one:
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7430078&postcount=39

I'd hardly consider that insulting, would you? "Bullshit", is hardly a uncommon word these days, and mild swearing such as that is so prominant in this forum that if it were something to be warned about then at least half of NS would've been warned for it.

More to come...

Look at this here:

http://www.myfreeib.com/members/index.php?showtopic=749&st=20

Note Japaica's post that he learned what DoS meant today. I didn't know what it meant either, and I've read a lot of the FAQs pretty thouroughly. He was merely excited from the idea that he might be able to post, he was not trying to intentionally disobey moderator rules.

403: IBForums-> Forbidden
You have reached this Page in error, please use your back button to return to ibforums. Get your free download of IBForums now!

He was told that he was banned from the game. This means that he is not allowed to return. He chose to despite being told that.

Since he would not stay away from the game despite being told not to return, I IP banned him.

403: IBForums-> Forbidden
You have reached this Page in error, please use your back button to return to ibforums. Get your free download of IBForums now!
Have you tried using "refresh"? I'll post the quotes in question if nobody can see it.

Yeah, i was confused there myself. Here Cog says he's banned:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7436729&postcount=34

...Now, as you'll note that all of the posts in question were made by "crazy japaicans", which was punished previously. Now, I know that the US constitution doesn't apply in NationStates, but I'm pretty sure this is what we'd call "double jeopardy". He already paid the price once. If you'll notice, his more recent posts were considerably improved. If you'll give me some time, I'll post examples.

Thank you for your time.
He paid the price TEN TIMES in total. He has had more chances than most.

When a single player has ten different incarnations DEAT, and has been given a final chance (as seen in Cog's post), then continuing in said behavior leads one to believe he is never going to bother with anything so plebian as the rules. He was warned that the slightest infraction would result in his being permanently banned; he did so and was banned. Cogitation even told him the proper channel for protesting/asking for a reprieve -- e-mailing the Admin.

Rather than do that, he chose to post here again -- in two new incarnations.

I would suggest that impartiality is perhaps difficult for his friends and admirers to achieve?

The beginning of the thread was my announcement that Jap had been banned (along with the official DoS announcement stating that he was "banned"), and Rhyno's stating that the mods of the NationStates forums can't ban him from the JoltForums. Japaica and I originally considered writing letters to the given e-mail address, but Japaica learned that he could still post. Other posters involved were "Lutton" and "Enerica", however they only posted once in the thread, and are not necessary to my current point. We pick up at the 20th post:

OMG!!! I can post!! I dont know how it happened, but I did it. Cog probably reconsidered. I'm so happy
This was following Japaica's realization that he can still post on the forums.

GODDAMNIT!!! I was just deleted AGAIN and I was able to create "The Japaica". I am soooo confused.
This post is fairly self explanatory. (post 24, after a brief celebration)

*sigh*

It's final. No more NS for me

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=372376&page=2
Japaica's realization that he can no longer post. Self explanatory. (post 25)

DoS is deat on sight. I just figured that out today. That may be why I didnt understand any of the mod suckups' hints
This post was following me asking what "DoS" meant. Here it is obviously portrayed that Japaica did not want to anger anyone. (post 28, 26 was me asking about what a DoS was, and 27 was Rhyno announcing the creation of this thread)

The rest of the thread is me asking permission to post this thread and Japaica thanking me for doing what I am currently doing to help him.

Just to go momentarily, ( and possibly mercifully ), off topic for just a moment here,Now, I know that the US constitution doesn't apply in NationStates,Yes, and yet people seem to think despite this, that their still making referance to it some how counts in the argument. :p

Hee, my usual grudge aside, :) , maybe this thread could use a lock. Moderation staff have clearly explained the situation and it is or should be a well known fact DoS rarely ( if at all, mind you ) get taken off. Its called a perma-ban for a reason, you know, and its used for a reason too.

Every-one seems to ignore in this situation that if you break the rules you will be punished, and if you don't break the rules in the first place, you won't get punished. I wonder if some of us can derive from that the better path to follow?

* From a not having your nation bundled into a sack in the dead of night, hoisted up into a lorry and driven off screaming, never to be heard from again, perspective of course, ;)

He paid the price TEN TIMES in total. He has had more chances than most.

When a single player has ten different incarnations DEAT, and has been given a final chance (as seen in Cog's post), then continuing in said behavior leads one to believe he is never going to bother with anything so plebian as the rules. He was warned that the slightest infraction would result in his being permanently banned; he did so and was banned. Cogitation even told him the proper channel for protesting/asking for a reprieve -- e-mailing the Admin.

Rather than do that, he chose to post here again -- in two new incarnations.Actually, The Fairy Tinkerbelly originally posted here, and Japaica posted because he did not know eactly what was going on (as I just stated). Also, it's also a known fact that the mods have lives outside of NationStates. The e-mails sent to the address given would have easily taken a long time to have been responded too (post 12 of the thread I posted was Lutton describing her incident at one point when she tried mailing for one of her problems, which was never responded to)

I would suggest that impartiality is perhaps difficult for his friends and admirers to achieve?
I would never lie for the benefit of something I support. The need to lie would destroy the entire purpose of defending it, and one would just as well give up and concede. If she would be willing, perhaps Tuesday Heights would sign on and confirm this for me (she too is a member of the board I posted, and Japaica and her are known to dislike each other intensely). However, if she does not wish to participate I will not force her.

Just to go momentarily, ( and possibly mercifully ), off topic for just a moment here,Yes, and yet people seem to think despite this, that their still making referance to it some how counts in the argument. :p
The Constitution was created to ensure fairness in judgements. Would not the mods also wish to show this same fairness?

Hee, my usual grudge aside, :) , maybe this thread could use a lock. Moderation staff have clearly explained the situation and it is or should be a well known fact DoS rarely ( if at all, mind you ) get taken off. Its called a perma-ban for a reason, you know, and its used for a reason too.
Yes, but "rarely" is not the same as "ever". Unless I've missed them, I don't think I've seen one DEAT as argued against as this. I'd hardly consider it just for the mods to assert the idea that a DoS is rarely lifted if it there is no hope for it actually being lifted.

Every-one seems to ignore in this situation that if you break the rules you will be punished, and if you don't break the rules in the first place, you won't get punished. I wonder if some of us can derive from that the better path to follow?
I see your point, but isn't it better to commit a crime and make an effort to repent, than commit a crime and never try to show you're truly sorry for your actions? Even changing late is better than never changing.

* From a not having your nation bundled into a sack in the dead of night, hoisted up into a lorry and driven off screaming, never to be heard from again, perspective of course, ;)
Of course. :D

I would never lie for the benefit of something I support. The need to lie would destroy the entire purpose of defending it, and one would just as well give up and concede. If she would be willing, perhaps Tuesday Heights would sign on and confirm this for me (she too is a member of the board I posted, and Japaica and her are known to dislike each other intensely). However, if she does not wish to participate I will not force her.
Honestly, Kleptonis, I'm not sure where this is coming from. No one here is questioning your honesty.

Mods are often told we are not impartial. All I was observing was that, as Komokom has said -- this has been explained over and over, and that it appears difficult for people to accept that Japaica broke the rules repeatedly and finally was asked not to come back.

If you wish to vent, go ahead, but I am afraid we are at an impasse.

I apologize that that seemed like venting. I strongly believe in this case, and feel that if there is anything that I can do to help Japaica, I will. As I previously stated, I deeply believe that Japaica is a changed poster. I personally think that the examples I posted are enough to show this. I did not want to imply that the mods are in any way not impartial, and are certainly more impartial than most of our posters, as their job requires them to be.

On the issue that Japaica repeatedly broke the rules, I will not deny that. I still find that the final infraction was an honest mistake made by Japaica. This honest mistake brought up previous charges to justify a final decision to IP ban him. However, Japaica had been previously punished for each of those points, so I would find it unnecessary to use those to justify his banning.

(BTW, the website I mentioned was here: http://www.myfreeib.com/members/index.php? it should be possible to see from there now that I have logged off. Check under "general" and "Jap got banned again")

I'd like to personally thank the mods for the time they're putting into this thread, and I must temporarily leave to go sleep, but I'll be back as soon as I can.

Yes, but "rarely" is not the same as "ever". Unless I've missed them, I don't think I've seen one DEAT as argued against as this. I'd hardly consider it just for the mods to assert the idea that a DoS is rarely lifted if it there is no hope for it actually being lifted.

The "Marathon's Deletion" thread (before your time) ran about twenty pages, IIRC. That too was an IP ban.

Incidentally, Marathon remains IP banned and DoS today, over a year later.

All I was observing was that, as Komokom has said -Oh great, now I have to find a bigger room to store my ego in ... :p The Constitution was created to ensure fairness in judgements. Would not the mods also wish to show this same fairness? Normally I'd blank this cause of my personal " U.S.A. can kindly stop waving its constitution about online, cause it ( really ) don't own the internet " rule, ;) , but frankly, I doubt its a matter of " just " and " fair ". Those ideals are always open to multiple and differing perceptions. What moderation staff do is enforce the rules. Think of them as police. And when your found pissing all over the police station door after being told " one more crime and you do the time, for-ever " you are, no matter who or how " well-loved ", still going to be " bang to rights " as they say.Yes, but "rarely" is not the same as "ever". Unless I've missed them, I don't think I've seen one DEAT as argued against as this. I'd hardly consider it just for the mods to assert the idea that a DoS is rarely lifted if it there is no hope for it actually being lifted.1) Sorry, I may have not being quite clear enough. As far as I know, no DoS has ever being lifted. But since I do not know for sure, I felt it best to make clear I was not sure, hence my wording, hence " rarely ( if ever ) ", if I may paraphrase my own words ... note that I even used bolding at that point as wel.

2) No matter how many people argue it will most likely not be lifted. Set in stone kind of thing, really, I would say.

3) Moderation as far as I know never implied it ( The or " a " DoS ) may be lifted. Nor did they imply that DoS's are lifted. I suggested it was a remote possibility, because I do not know the ruling on that, and I am of course not a Moderation Staff member. I figured that was pretty clear, ;) I see your point, but isn't it better to commit a crime and make an effort to repent, than commit a crime and never try to show you're truly sorry for your actions? Even changing late is better than never changing.1) If you realy see my point, then you'll see one should not have committed the crime, or crimes, in the first place. Let alone so often and frequently over time.

2) Changing late ? No, I think too late. But then again I think that point has already been made though.

For what it's worth, I will vouch for both Klept and Jap, and I've got a clean record ('sides pissing Myrth off once or twice...)...at least, I think i'm clean.

In any case, you can check my posts...I'm a serious contributor, I have to count for something, eh?

Regardless of whether Jap knew what DoS meant, his banning was quite clear. The ultimatum was issued here and the ban was issued at the bottom of this post.

And I quote:
...
Additionally, I note that those offenses were committed after I issued this ultimatum against you. You are hereby permanently banned from NationStates. Do not return without approval from admin@nationstates.net
...

I see no room for confusion here. You can be banned from an area by policy and not by locks and bars. We usually try to ban people by policy first. Many people realize that they are no longer permitted here and do not return without us having to issue an IP ban. We told Jap that he was banned in no uncertain terms. He returned multiple times, he was IP banned.