NationStates Jolt Archive

Me, and my friends are swapping in the Rejected Realms, to tople the delegacy. We expect it to take us at least another month, since somebody is asking around to un-endorse us. Most of us are newbies (Not me), and we are swapping like heck (Not Hack :p ). Every nation that we endorse get a little message about our cause, but now I have a question:

I have seen that many nations go in and and out the region, because they have business elswhere. If they don't return the same day, or experience an update somewhere else, they will lose the endorsement we gave. I personally have very short memory, and with many names looking very similar, chances are that those moving nations, when they come back, will get another endorsement with the usual explanation. If those nations move in and out every day, and thus get one message every day, will that be spamming? We don't send the message to nations who already have an endorsement.

Im my opinion, if the message is sent more than once per day, due to them moving in and out, then yes it would be spam.

If the mod's rule this as spam, then you should just make lists on nations TM'ed and who are loyal to your cause.

BUT this is just my opinion on what the ruling should be, nothing more.

Im my opinion, if the message is sent more than once per day, due to them moving in and out, then yes it would be spam.

If the mod's rule this as spam, then you should just make lists on nations TM'ed and who are loyal to your cause.

BUT this is just my opinion on what the ruling should be, nothing more.

I don't think we send more than once a day. That is not the isue. I am just worried that nations moving in and out every day, will have to report 7 messages in a week. Most nations in my army are just newbies. It is not possible to keep track of them all.

I think that the mods would understand.

I think that the mods would understand.
You can't make any kind of ruling on this as a player. Please don't speculate, and wait for a GM to deliver a decision.

You can't make any kind of ruling on this as a player. Please don't speculate, and wait for a GM to deliver a decision.

To be fair, I don't believe Jjuulliiaann was trying to make a ruling or otherwise.

To be fair, I don't believe Jjuulliiaann was trying to make a ruling or otherwise.
He was trying to comfort me :fluffle:
It doesn't help much, but the intentions were good ;)

Me, and my friends are swapping in the Rejected Realms, to tople the delegacy. We expect it to take us at least another month, since somebody is asking around to un-endorse us. Most of us are newbies (Not me), and we are swapping like heck (Not Hack :p ). Every nation that we endorse get a little message about our cause, but now I have a question:

I have seen that many nations go in and and out the region, because they have business elswhere. If they don't return the same day, or experience an update somewhere else, they will lose the endorsement we gave. I personally have very short memory, and with many names looking very similar, chances are that those moving nations, when they come back, will get another endorsement with the usual explanation. If those nations move in and out every day, and thus get one message every day, will that be spamming? We don't send the message to nations who already have an endorsement.
Yeah, it would be spamming, so you should maintain a list of nations you've telegrammed already.

There's another issue regarding your campaign: Since several nations (operating under your command) are trying to endorsement-swap in "The Rejected Realms", your entire campaign can only send one telegram, collectively, to each nation. "Hi, I'm Carinthe, me and my allies have given you our endorsements. Please endorse us in return. We are... (list of names)." For each of your allies to send a separate endorsement telegram to each nation when you're all part of the same campaign is spam; each nation should only get one telegram, not several.

Now, I'm willing to let this go without issuing official warnings, but you have to change your telegram tactics immediately.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

I don't understand why the ruling on this is so rigid. All of the game created regions use this method to support their delegacies (or to gain them). I've saved messages from Unlimited and Francos and altho' I didn't save it, I also had messages from Great Bight and some other nations in the NP and all these messages went out to many nations on the same day.

It's too late for me to think up an responce to this, but at face value, looks commone sence. No one wants to be spammed. Though I'll have to think on this to see if I have any questions...

One comes to mind, is it considered spam because it is all for the same purpose or because they are preformatted letters- a.k.a same TG different nations? From what I know there isn't a standard TG.

I thought of more questions... but it's so late here I can't think strait, I'll come back in a half day or so.

Yeah, it would be spamming, so you should maintain a list of nations you've telegrammed already.

I will do so. I have no problem with that whatsoever.

There's another issue regarding your campaign: Since several nations (operating under your command) are trying to endorsement-swap in "The Rejected Realms", your entire campaign can only send one telegram, collectively, to each nation. "Hi, I'm Carinthe, me and my allies have given you our endorsements. Please endorse us in return. We are... (list of names)." For each of your allies to send a separate endorsement telegram to each nation when you're all part of the same campaign is spam; each nation should only get one telegram, not several.

Are you making me responsible for their actions?
They are constantly pushing me to send more messages, change the lines, and be more agressive. Those were newly created nations when I recruited them, so they hardily know their ways around.

Now, I'm willing to let this go without issuing official warnings, but you have to change your telegram tactics immediately.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

Thank you Cogitation, though I was already making a list, and did my my best to avoid sending the same message again to the same nation. I wonder if you got any complaints, and if they had proof to show you. I have the feeling that I am in control of things, but but I can't speak for my impatient soldiers. Though I constantly tell them that this will take months, and that they should be very careful, they still want to win this in a five minute's battle, and push things :mad:

There's another issue regarding your campaign: Since several nations (operating under your command) are trying to endorsement-swap in "The Rejected Realms", your entire campaign can only send one telegram, collectively, to each nation. "Hi, I'm Carinthe, me and my allies have given you our endorsements. Please endorse us in return. We are... (list of names)." For each of your allies to send a separate endorsement telegram to each nation when you're all part of the same campaign is spam; each nation should only get one telegram, not several.

I can see problems ahead with this ruling. It requires establishment of 'allies', 'command', and 'a campaign'.

There are many different forms of allies. Some operate as one, others are based on nothing more than the association between two players and function as requests being passed back and forth with most requests acted on. As a result of that, 'command' can be vague as well. Further more, there are groups out there which operate without actually having a commander position of any kind whatsoever. The problems I see with defining 'a campaign' is that whether something is one or more campaigns is really in the eyes of the beholder.

For instance, some time ago I moved into The Pacific and started to campaign for 'freedom and democracy' (although the NPO/PRP would interpret that differently, I suppose). A bunch of friends joined me even without me asking them to. To this day the NPO/PRP claims it was a concerted group effort (and even blames the ADN even though I'm not even in the ADN). So, would I suddenly become responsible for any and all TMs sent by my friends even though we never even agreed that I would 'command' them (which I do not). To an outside observer there's really no way to distinguish between these different situations. Even more: it turned out there was already someone else in The Pacific working on a campaign, and that person ended up getting caught in the events and was later even listed as a participant on what was deemed 'the ADN effort' even most of the ADN had no clue who was behind that nation.

How will the NS mods be able to verify who is or isn't under command of others, belong in the same campaign, and whom is allies with whom (keeping in mind that betrayals do happen and spies may only fake allegiance) while all that mostly happens on off-site forums?

In short... this looks like a major can of worms being opened up here... I agree with the objective of limiting TMs being sent out in cases where there is a group effort, but am worried that this may lead to never-ending bickering over what is or isn't considered a group for the purposes of that ruling.

Ballotonia

How will the NS mods be able to verify who is or isn't under command of others, belong in the same campaign, and whom is allies with whom (keeping in mind that betrayals do happen and spies may only fake allegiance) while all that mostly happens on off-site forums?


Ballotonia

I have given all our soldiers orders to cease and desist all messaging immediately, and I hope that Gamemods take in account that we might have infiltrators, who will gladly see my nation Carinthe deleted. Personally I feel the need to write a "goodbye" letter here, since I am just 16 years old, having command over some very stubborn "adults". I am not afraid for the responsability, but seen my age, and my English is not so good either, I am getting a bit of depressed here.
As soon as things quiet down, we will renew our campaign, but only one of us will send the messages. For a secret reason, that person can't be me. If a mod wants me to clarify this, I am willing to explain it all in a telegram. Also I am willing to give a complete list of all our soldiers, to the Gamemods, as long as they take in account, that not all of them are 100% loyal to me, and might be there to sabotage everything we do.

I hope moderators recognize here, that this ruling is pointing our weak spot to all our enemies, in which many will will not hessitate to expoit it fully.

I don't understand why the ruling on this is so rigid. All of the game created regions use this method to support their delegacies (or to gain them). I've saved messages from Unlimited and Francos and altho' I didn't save it, I also had messages from Great Bight and some other nations in the NP and all these messages went out to many nations on the same day.
Part of the problem, here, is that the number of nations campaigning for the Delegacy in "The Rejected Realms" has jumped dramatically. Most of the jump is because of nations working with Carinthe.

One comes to mind, is it considered spam because it is all for the same purpose or because they are preformatted letters- a.k.a same TG different nations? From what I know there isn't a standard TG.
Because it's all for the same purpose.

As the matter stands, several nations working together are sending one endorsement telegram each to each nation they come across. Consequently, players are getting 6-10 endorsement telegrams in a very short timespan.

Are you making me responsible for their actions?
They are constantly pushing me to send more messages, change the lines, and be more agressive. Those were newly created nations when I recruited them, so they hardily know their ways around.
First, they're your army; they're acting on your orders and with your sanction. They can (and will) be issued official warnings for spamming if they continue. If you order them to spam, then you will be held responsible. If you order them not to spam, and they spam anyway, then I'll just warn them (and not you). You're the General, so go and pull rank. :p

Make a list of nations that each of your soldiers should telegram. Or, make it simple: "You, go and telegram nations start A-D. You, go and telegram nations starting E-H. You, go and telegram nations starting I-L. ..." Then, tell me the assignments by Getting Help request (or, if necessary, by E-mail to cogitationthemod@yahoo.com, but "Getting Help" should work) and if I get a spam complaint, I'll just warn the specific nation responsible.

Second, if they're pushing you to be more agressive, then remind them that NationStates has rules and Mods to enforce them. Also tell them that you won't work with rulebreakers or accept them into your army, so it's important for them to know and understand the rules.

I wonder if you got any complaints, and if they had proof to show you. I have the feeling that I am in control of things, but but I can't speak for my impatient soldiers. Though I constantly tell them that this will take months, and that they should be very careful, they still want to win this in a five minute's battle, and push things :(
Just tell your soldiers to control themselves and give them specific instructions on who to telegram. By doing the telegramming in alphabetical categories (as I described above), you can break up the workload while limiting the campaign to only 1 telegram per recipient.

If one of your soldiers disobeys orders, then that's his/her problem, not yours.

...

Ballotonia: I do have evidence of multiple telegrams from a group of nations working together, in this case. In future cases, it will depend upon the strength of the evidence that we Mods have; we'll be less inclined to act if there isn't strong evidence.

...

...and I hope that Gamemods take in account that we might have infiltrators, who will gladly see my nation Carinthe deleted.
Noted. I will keep this in mind.

I will also remind everyone that trying to frame another nation is, in-and-of-itself, a violation of NationStates rules. Anyone caught trying to do this is given a harsher punishment than normal.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

I am happy. :p
That doesn't happen often, so you might wanna archieve this thread :D
I am again at ease, because this is a fair ruling, as I hoped it would be.
My orders stand:

All soldiers should read the anouncement in our military headquarters, and stop messaging immediately! ;)