NationStates Jolt Archive

I saw this one guy make a post earlier today. Basically, he said that he hoped he would get to see US cities being bombed and burned so that Americans would all suffer. And that he grinned as he watched the 9/11 events take place.

Now, is that considered an opinion, or an extreme flame? I live in the U.S. He just told me he hoped that I would suffer and be killed (for events that I have no control over). Hell, he told me he hoped my friends and families would be burned, bombed, killed, etc.

Should I let that go?


What if he said the same thing, but instead focuing on Jews and the Holocaust.

Then what?


Should it be let go if he's flaming a broad range of people indirectly? Is it any different he says that everyone in America should die from him saying I should die?


I don't think I'm taking this too far, I just don't want to see this turn into nothing more than a haven for comments no better than those you would see on a KKK message board.


America sucks
Acceptable

Americans suck
Whatever

Americans should all burn in hell
Too far

The American government should burn in hell
I can let that go, although is it hypocritical?


This doesn't only apply for Americans. I've seen the same occur for the British and French.

hey i was looking at your signature... my friend is campaigning for presidency in 2020... no joke, its about to be released on fark.com

hey i was looking at your signature... my friend is campaigning for presidency in 2020... no joke, its about to be released on fark.com
heh

I wanna see that

Colodia - give me the link to the thread and I'll go take a look at it.

I saw this one guy make a post earlier today. Basically, he said that he hoped he would get to see US cities being bombed and burned so that Americans would all suffer. And that he grinned as he watched the 9/11 events take place.

Now, is that considered an opinion, or an extreme flame? I live in the U.S. He just told me he hoped that I would suffer and be killed (for events that I have no control over). Hell, he told me he hoped my friends and families would be burned, bombed, killed, etc.I can understand why you're offended by that, but TBH I just think posters like that make themselves look stupid.

What if he said the same thing, but instead focuing on Jews and the Holocaust.Holocaust deniers are actually allowed to post.

The reason I'm against this kind of proposal is not because I doubt your motives, but I've been accused of being anti-American (despite the fact I have relatives in the US) for criticising the American goverment's foreign policy- and I think that allowing people to claim flaming on behalf of nations would merely open the floodgates to hundreds of frivolous complaints.

hm... Colodia, looking at your signature I can not say that you are comletely free of fault you either.

you really really really mean that?

hm... Colodia, looking at your signature I can not say that you are comletely free of fault you either.

you really really really mean that?

Eh, I'm Canadian, his sig doesn't bother me.

heh

I wanna see that

I'll try and remember to send you a telegram when we put it up.

If we begin censoring "extreme" opinions, sooner or later the non-extreme opinions will be targeted, too, because there will be no more "extremists" left. ;)

If we begin censoring "extreme" opinions, sooner or later the non-extreme opinions will be targeted, too, because there will be no more "extremists" left. ;)

Extreme opinions are one thing, posting things like "All <insert nationality/race/religion/sexuality here> deserve to suffer and die" is considered extreme flaming and we will dole out punishments accordingly.

Extreme opinions are one thing, posting things like "All <insert nationality/race/religion/sexuality here> deserve to suffer and die" is considered extreme flaming and we will dole out punishments accordingly.

Well, I disagree here. I think expressing frustration by saying something like, "The American government should burn in hell," is not in any way a form of extremism - as many Americans say it every day - of course, I know my opinion isn't going to change the way Moderation is done around, I'm just stating my opinions.

Well, I disagree here. I think expressing frustration by saying something like, "The American government should burn in hell," is not in any way a form of extremism - as many Americans say it every day - of course, I know my opinion isn't going to change the way Moderation is done around, I'm just stating my opinions.

First, I think it is always good to provide a bit of feedback as to our opinions.

Second, there is a huge difference (though it is semantic) between saying:

"The American government should burn in hell."

vs.

"Americans should burn in hell."

The difference lies in choice. Few people choose to become Americans (immigrants do of course). Few politicians did not choose to become part of the government. While I feel people are somewhat responsible for their government, the actions of a few shouldn't be allowed to pass a "prejudgement" on a group.

Think of it this way, the Iraqi atheletes at this week's Olympic games likely had very little to do with the Iraqi government of several years ago. A hatred of that government shouldn't be extended to individuals until you have a feel for how much they were or were not a part of that government.

Another Olympic example: an Iranian athelete dropped out of the games because he was scheduled to compete against an Israeli. Personally I think that is against the spirit of the games and that that individual should never be allowed back. But what if his decision to basically be racist wasn't his choice, but on his government's orders? Who is the coward / bigot? The individual athelete or the government of Iran?

In this case, I don't know. But the point is that a case could be made (weak or strong) to suggest that the individual may not be so "bad".

Generalizations like, "All French suck!" are not just flamebaiting, but I feel bigotry based. They are ignorant of the fact that "groups" are collections of diverse individuals, and while people certainly have a right to be ignorant, the nature of the medium (text only) really IMHO justifies some moderation of these types of attitudes. Extreme comments should be modable.

hm... Colodia, looking at your signature I can not say that you are comletely free of fault you either.

you really really really mean that?
eh....the Canadian part? No I don't mean that. Hell, I'd still be happy with that part of my sig if I changed it to any other nationality. British, French, Australian, whatever The World Dictator is a half-joke. The US Presidency part couldn't be any truer. ;)



Hey, I'm just glad that my opinion is being heard. And Steph, I unsubscribed to the topic for fear that I would resort to flaming.

Miktivity has brought up some valid points that have made me rethink - and change - my stance on this issue. I now agree with the others here, extreme opinions, of any form against people, should be regulated on these forums.

Well, I disagree here. I think expressing frustration by saying something like, "The American government should burn in hell," is not in any way a form of extremism - as many Americans say it every day - of course, I know my opinion isn't going to change the way Moderation is done around, I'm just stating my opinions.


Because Hell is known as a place of moderation, clearly.

I think you have a better chance borrowing a quarter from George Washington's mother then to argue that it isn't extremist. The question should be focused instead on whether it is healthy to have extremsist points of view, even if unpopular.

I agree with the mods on this one, in that you have to "protect" others from blatant hatred and flaming.

I just think that you might want to re-direct your argument here is all. Argueing that is not extreme is not going to get you anywhere (and at a rapid rate as well).

I just think that you might want to re-direct your argument here is all. Argueing that is not extreme is not going to get you anywhere (and at a rapid rate as well).

I already changed my opinion on the post above you, next time, please read the entire thread:

Miktivity has brought up some valid points that have made me rethink - and change - my stance on this issue. I now agree with the others here, extreme opinions, of any form against people, should be regulated on these forums.

For the record - saying the American government should burn in hell is an opinion, saying all Americans should burn in hell is a blatant flamebait. That's how I enforce it anyway.

For the record - saying the American government should burn in hell is an opinion, saying all Americans should burn in hell is a blatant flamebait. That's how I enforce it anyway.

Question: does the way the opinion is expressed determine whether a post is flamebait or not?

For example:

Case 1: "All Lilliputians should burn in hell."

Case 2: "All Lilliputians are small-endians. In the Bible it says all who are small-endians should burn in hell. Therefore all Lilliputians should burn in hell."

Case 3: "The creator in his infinite wisdom has deemed that he shall cast down the unholy, like all the Lilliputians, into a pit of fire and brimstone."

Question: does the way the opinion is expressed determine whether a post is flamebait or not?

For example:

Case 1: "All Lilliputians should burn in hell."

Case 2: "All Lilliputians are small-endians. In the Bible it says all who are small-endians should burn in hell. Therefore all Lilliputians should burn in hell."

Case 3: "The creator in his infinite wisdom has deemed that he shall cast down the unholy, like all the Lilliputians, into a pit of fire and brimstone."
good question, I'd like to see an answer.

For the record - saying the American government should burn in hell is an opinion, saying all Americans should burn in hell is a blatant flamebait. That's how I enforce it anyway.Does referring to the French as "cheese eating surrender monkeys" qualify as blatant flamebait as well?

Does referring to the French as "cheese eating surrender monkeys" qualify as blatant flamebait as well?

As far as I'm concerned, any baseless bashing of any nationality is flamebait.

Does referring to the French as "cheese eating surrender monkeys" qualify as blatant flamebait as well?

I would think that's commensense, of course it's flamebait, because you're just asking for a French poster to comment back at that.

I would think that's commensense, of course it's flamebait, because you're just asking for a French poster to comment back at that.
That's fair enough. (And thanks to Myrth for clarifying). I was just asking because from what I've seen it's at least as common as America bashing. Can I suggest that intent should be considered as well. Otherwise almost everyone on the recent "Moving to the UK" thread would be liable for a warning for the North vs South stuff- and I think it's pretty obvious that was all harmless joshing.

I see it all the time, too, THW. Sometimes the mods say something, sometimes they don't; same thing goes with comments made against Americans... unfortunately, there's not enough of them or enough time to get all the flamebait in these forums.