NationStates Jolt Archive

I know moderators don't like to ... well do much ...

But this is something which is resulting from the griefing and hostilities in the North Pacific (you know ... those 100s of nations you've ignored).

Other nations which weren't griefed, but honestly trying to cool things down in your absence have been registered in off-site forums that they don't belong. I don't care to use names *yet*, but I'd like to call attention to the fact that eventually you're going to at least have to make a FAQ warning about off-site names ...

The problem, people are starting *stealing* our names and using them to make us say things in other regional groups off-site forums. Personally I find this extremely objectionable and at the very least, if this continues and concerns others, maybe a statement could be made discouraging this sort of behavior.

It is causing ill will between players.

Michael

And what would you have us do? Demand administrator settings on your forums to punish those who would steal names? The hard truth is that there's nothing we can do about events on off-site forums. All we can do is ban reference to them on our site, which I doubt is something that would be useful in this case. It is not our place to post rules and points of etiquette for your site on our site. Have your Administrators handle the problem.

While I agree that it's a dirty underhanded thing to do, it's not really my place to police your forums, nor is it the job of NationStates Administrators to post etiquette rules for off-site forums on this site.

Mik, it's all part of the game; if the admins in The North Pacific off-site forums don't want to do anything about it, it just gives fodder for those fighting to free the region from whatever it is they're trying to free it from this week.

Embedded in Tueday Heights is something I think a lot of people seem to forget concerning NationStates:

It Is A Game!

And what would you have us do? Demand administrator settings on your forums to punish those who would steal names? The hard truth is that there's nothing we can do about events on off-site forums. All we can do is ban reference to them on our site, which I doubt is something that would be useful in this case. It is not our place to post rules and points of etiquette for your site on our site. Have your Administrators handle the problem.

While I agree that it's a dirty underhanded thing to do, it's not really my place to police your forums, nor is it the job of NationStates Administrators to post etiquette rules for off-site forums on this site.

Don't act like a jerk ...

I already suggested what I'd like the Mods to do in my post:

Make a statement in the FAQ warning players that this happens and that this is frowned upon in general.

Did you *see* me ask the mods to police the forums? Hell, I'm inclined to think the policing on just the NS forums is hard enough.

But I've been playing since late Jan. and I've never heard of something like this happening on such a large scale. Loop suggested that it *is* against the NS rules to pretend to be another player ... and though you can't zap people for pretending to be other players off-site, this is a growing problem.

If you're interested and not just gonna throw out another knee jerk reaction, I'll be happy to post a link to the East Pacific forum where this is being discussed (it was the new North Pacific forum where a bunch of East Pacific senior players were registered without their knowledge).

The bottom line, I'd be pissed as hell if somebody who didn't like me started running around to all the off-site forums and registering Mikitivity and saying things I didn't like. Wouldn't you be pissed if somebody started registering as the Glorious Hack on the off-site forums and speaking in your name?

I can't believe that this *is not* something that should at least be discussed by the mods and a statement be made against this behavior.

Michael

Mik, it's all part of the game; if the admins in The North Pacific off-site forums don't want to do anything about it, it just gives fodder for those fighting to free the region from whatever it is they're trying to free it from this week.

The problem was that somebody registered the names on Great Bight's new page. Loop found out, protested when he noticed it was a ton of East Pacific nations all registered by one of two different IP's (I think they are coming out of Amsterdam ... or at least ARIN WHOIS pointed to the Netherlands). Loop and Bight took care of this ... and it had nothing at all to do with the old North Pacific forum.

My point is this is just something of concern and should be frowned upon. Nobody needs to be publically flogged. Nobody needs their eyes poked out.

But like most things in-action might sometimes be a sign of approval.

The bottom line, I'd be pissed as hell if somebody who didn't like me started running around to all the off-site forums and registering Mikitivity and saying things I didn't like. Wouldn't you be pissed if somebody started registering as the Glorious Hack on the off-site forums and speaking in your name?


Michael

I really understand your problem, but you have little understanding for the mod's problem here. How are you, or anybody else, going to prove that it's not you who is posting there? Things will become very complicated, when moderators have nothing to work with. If [violet] agrees with you here, chances are that admin will simply abolish off-site fora. If that is what you are aiming for, you will not make many friends here.
NationStates moderators have no other way to regulate off-site (Regional) fora.

This is what I would suggest.

1. only let certain people know about the offsite forum, ie, the high ups.
2. Password protect the forum
3. have some kind of secret code onmly soime peoplel know about... ie, in a custom field you could have an identity number assigned to you by the high ups, which only you and teh high ups know. and if your code is wrong, you get deated from that forum
4. Password proetct the parts you dont want random people to kno of and only give the opass out to the people who are actually allowed in there.

just some suggestions.

But I've been playing since late Jan. and I've never heard of something like this happening on such a large scale. Loop suggested that it *is* against the NS rules to pretend to be another player
Against the rules on this site.

Wouldn't you be pissed if somebody started registering as the Glorious Hack on the off-site forums and speaking in your name?
Why should I care? I don't "own" this name anywhere except on NationStates.

I can't believe that this *is not* something that should at least be discussed by the mods and a statement be made against this behavior.
Okay, don't take people's names on other sites because... it's a very mean thing to do.

The problem with us making a note of it here is that it sets in motion possibilities that I don't much care for. First of all, it involves posting off-site warnings and rules on our site. Where does it stop? What if the members of the "Holy Cow Cheese" region are being attacked by a hacker from their regional board. Should we post a warning for them too? Do we keep the warning there for a week? A month? Forever? Remember, there's only two people who can actually change the factbook.

More importantly, if we put a warning about that up, people will expect us to do something about it when it happens. You may not, but people will. Then we'll find ourselves in the unenviable position of wondering if we punish people here for actions done there. If we punish, it's not fair because they haven't broken any of our rules. If we don't punish, then we're clearly not doing enough, and the warning is worthless.

There are reasons that we keep a hands off approach to offsite forums.

Mikitivity, once again, I stress - THIS IS A GAME. Besides, this happens in everyday politics, too, where people say someone else said something and whether or not they actually said it is irrelevant, the damage is already done.

Any person who gets that heavily involved in this game realizes the potential for things such a misrepresentation and libel are set to occur; I'm currently dealing with it myself, but I'm dealing with it on my own terms, as all hardcore NS users should instead of running to the mods with it.

If the mods make a ruling or an announcement, regardless of what it is, someone will come back and try to loophole around it to make the actions legal of NS. Someone always does, Hack isn't be a "jerk" (and calling a mod that won't help you cause), he's simply telling you that the Moderation staff does not want to set that precendent, because good world leaders should already know the dangers of ruling a country.

I had that "problem" too.
In some off-site regional forum was somebody using my name. All I did was contacting the admin of that forum, in this game, and the matter was solved. The admin of that forum knew that I could not pretend to be someone, in NationStates, and the matter was solved. A few weeks later it happened again, but now with a name of my puppet. Again I solved it by contacting the creator of that regional forum. When someone is using your name, the matter is easily resolved, if you do it politely and to the right person.

Mikitivity, once again, I stress - THIS IS A GAME. Besides, this happens in everyday politics, too, where people say someone else said something and whether or not they actually said it is irrelevant, the damage is already done.



I understand this is a game, but this approach is taking misinformation to an extreme that younger players really don't *think* about at first.

Sure, in a dictatorship / Orwellian society, the media / news / "real-fact" will practice these things (misinformation) all the time. The maddening thing is that this GAME you keep reminding me about is something that some people will go to the trouble of not just creating puppets to argue on their behalf (in order to speak from the voice of many), but they'll create off-site forums and cash in other nation's good reputations or attempt to destroy other nation's good reputations. And it works. Hell, I'd say it is encouraged by the moderation team due to the fact that their reply is "Sorry, we can't police the world." instead of the other situation, "Hmmm, this does bother us. We can't do anything ... oh wait, that's right ... we set the tone of the game ... but where can we do that? On the forums? Well maybe. Oh wait, we have a frequently asked questions ... it would only take us a few minutes to change that. Hmmm ... nah, that document is completely perfect as it stands. FAQs should never be updated."

The thing about the "damage being already done", it can be undone, by simply having the FAQ remind nations to *always* view with a careful eye as to where their information is coming to.

It was a thought ... and frankly I'm happy to hear Gothic Kitty's solution and experience worked out for the better.


And the Most Glorious Hack ...

You didn't need to go on with:


Okay, don't take people's names on other sites because... it's a very mean thing to do.

That is another example of your continuing condescending attitude. That is troubling behavior for a moderator. Granted, my own attitude is not friendly, but bear in mind that it is being fueled by your disrespectiful attitude towards my ideas -- they aren't bad. In fact, there are others who have been playing this game for some time (months instead of the 2 years that true long-timers can claim) that also share my opinions.

All I was asking is that you consider changing the "Frequently Asked Questions" to point this concern out. Not police the off-site world. Obviously you'd much rather go completely off on your own ... I guess you can all them ideas, instead of addressing my original request to treat a FAQ as a way to set the tone of the game and answer questions that you think will be asked again and again.

Changing the FAQ doesn't mean more work for you. Really it doesn't. Especially if you state in the FAQ that you can't police the world. Stop making everything sound like we are trying to milk more out of your busy schedule. We are aware you aren't paid ... but of course volunteering doesn't also give you and other moderators the right to act like dorks.

Had the FAQ (which is supposed to be a living document, not something set in stone) been added ... I very much doubt that the situation with the fake East Pacific clones running around wouldn't have been nearly as big a deal.

Frankly, I'm very disappointed in the *hostility* you've shown me and while I'm aware that most nations that are bothered enough by something to bring it to the technical and moderation forums are already not necessary pleasant to the moderation team (we are usually here because of something close to us) ... I would think that part of being a moderator is not to inflame the situation.

Not to butt in to this conversation too much, since I've got more pressing concerns in real life at the moment, and I apologize in advance for any perceived hostility- it is not aimed at anybody online, it's just stress on my end (yay California fire season), but...

Changing the FAQ doesn't mean more work for you. Really it doesn't. Especially if you state in the FAQ that you can't police the world.

And if Hack, or I, or any of the mods COULD change the FAQ, I'm sure one of us would gladly add a quick note to the effect of what you're suggesting. Only Max, [violet], and Salusa can tweak anything in the game code or the website itself, and they're presently trying to tackle far more vital concerns for the game. Maybe once they've gotten all the kinks worked out following the Jolt move, one of them could do it.


Frankly, I'm very disappointed in the *hostility* you've shown me and while I'm aware that most nations that are bothered enough by something to bring it to the technical and moderation forums are already not necessary pleasant to the moderation team (we are usually here because of something close to us) ... I would think that part of being a moderator is not to inflame the situation.

Remember- we only just moved to Jolt, and we're the ones catching most of the player complaints about things that aren't working right. Mods are people too, and we get irritable when we've had to deal with the same complaints thousands of times ;)

~Rep

That is all I'm really asking ... I certainly don't expect any changes to anything to be made without months of discussions here and off-site as well. This includes FAQ changes.

And you are right ... the Jolt move has us all rattled. To be honest, with each passing day, I'm seeing improvements in Jolt. We can now edit our old posts, search features seem expanded ... the bottom line is the Jolt transition team is doing IMHO an admiral job.

Rome was not built in a day ...

-Michael

That is another example of your continuing condescending attitude. That is troubling behavior for a moderator. Granted, my own attitude is not friendly,

I love how only players can be hostile, but mods can't. Face it, Mikitivity, you started hostile, so blaming one mod is a little cheap. If you recall, you started this thread by, essentially, calling the mods a bunch of lazy gits...

I love how only players can be hostile, but mods can't. Face it, Mikitivity, you started hostile, so blaming one mod is a little cheap. If you recall, you started this thread by, essentially, calling the mods a bunch of lazy gits...

I noticed that when looking back over the entire thread.

But I do think many of us *hold* moderators to a bit of a higher standard. I'll apologize now for being a class a-jerk. But I'm convinced I wasn't the only one with a chip on his shoulder posting in this thread.

Please understand that there are many nations from the North Pacific that are *not* happy with the moderation team right now. But you're right, perhaps a more moderated request on my part would have been met with something other than more hostility from the Most Glorious Hack.

We have no authority regarding off-site forums regarding either making rules or even making suggestions. To do so would be to imply a level of officiality that does not exist. Any problems that exist in offsite forums belong to the offsite forums until such a time as they spill over into the game themselves and are not our concerns.

Please take it up with the moderators and administrators of the forums in question.