NationStates Jolt Archive

Mods-

As you may or may not know/care…my Empire of Mon-go was deleted for “griefing” the region known as “The land of Saido”. I was under the impression that this region wanted to be attacked! I had been in communication with two of the active regional leaders and discussed it a bit in advance. They were very enthusiastic about it. We sent telegrams back and forth several times…

The region consisted of about five nations, only two of which were even active. Those two active nations were the ones who invited me to overthrow their region…one of the guys who invited me has a second nation that is a subject of Planet Mongo that I founded! I may still have one or two of the telegrams in my old Mon-go box if you care to take a look. I intended to hold the region until they communicated with me and then let the battle begin, which was what I understood they wanted.

The only real harm done here is that three of the inactive players (who may or may not even come back) will log in to discover that their nation has been moved to the rejected realm. They weren’t destroyed, or forced to start over or anything…they’d even still have their region, except that when Phigia and I were deleted it killed the region along with us.

This has been one huge misunderstanding. I’d love to have my old nation back with its UN status intact if that’s possible. The nations you’ll want to contact are Kharrol, VerDa-An (same guy as Kharrol) and some fella whose nation is called Rafale. You can probably find a telegram from him in my old box.

Thanks for your consideration!

-Ming

Observed:

World Factbook Entry:

UN Delegate:

[List all nations]

Like what you see? Move Goobergunchia to today!
Today's United Nations Report
Regional Happenings
Civil Headquarters

Messages from regional members are co-ordinated here.

It seems that the region has been completely destroyed.

Ming, can I call you Ming? Course I can. Now, you see... there's a principle where murder is illegal. Assisted suicide is, generally, considered murder.

Now, if we apply what I just told you to your situation, then it becomes obvious that you broke the rules, no matter how much they wanted to be 'killed'.


Right or Wrong, Rules are Rules.

That's real-life...this is a game in which two or more consenting nations can decide to declare war on each others' nations or regions IN CHARACTER.

Real-life rules don't always apply in this game...

That's real-life...this is a game in which two or more consenting nations can decide to declare war on each others' nations or regions IN CHARACTER.

Real-life rules don't always apply in this game...

You take part in wars on the forums, RPing. You can not grief, IC or not. Ignorance is no excuse, and, sadly, neither is foolishness. Face it, Ming. You did bad. Now take the consequences.


Right or Wrong, Rules are Rules.

But, taking over a region is legal, right?
Broadly speaking, yes. I can move myself and my friends into your region and become the delegate. What I can't do is kick everyone out of the region. That's where "griefing" comes in. It's generally a fine line and the mods get a lot of requests to look at situations which may or may not be griefing.

Are you two mods?

Are you two mods?

Nope. Just a humble counsel for the crown, taking my training to help NS become a better place.

(I finally passed my exams! Woohoo!)


Right or Wrong, Rules are Rules.

Are you two mods?

I am not a moderator, which is why I have been limiting my comments to observations and direct quotations from existing Moderator precedent.

We have exams?

Oh shoot, this is just like those dreams where I show up to school on the day of the test and know I forgot to study...then suddenly realize I forgot my pants.

Sigh.

Mods? Anyone?

It's kinda big and lonely in here...

<--------- Not a Moderator

Can I invade other people's regions?
Yes. The practice of "region crashing," where a group of nations all move to a region with the aim of seizing the UN Delegate position, is part of the game. Certain groups within NationStates are particularly adroit at this, and can attack very quickly.

Once I've taken over a region, can I eject everyone else?
No. Region crashing by itself is a legitimate tactic to seize power, but ejecting large numbers of nations is griefing. It can be a fine line between region crashing and griefing. Players who enjoy launching invasions should take care to stay on the right side.

If this isn't clear enough, a moderator can't help you here.

Ming, can I call you Ming? Course I can. Now, you see... there's a principle where murder is illegal. Assisted suicide is, generally, considered murder.

Now, if we apply what I just told you to your situation, then it becomes obvious that you broke the rules, no matter how much they wanted to be 'killed'.

That's real-life...this is a game in which two or more consenting nations can decide to declare war on each others' nations or regions IN CHARACTER.

Real-life rules don't always apply in this game...

You take part in wars on the forums, RPing. You can not grief, IC or not. Ignorance is no excuse, and, sadly, neither is foolishness. Face it, Ming. You did bad. Now take the consequences.

Cut the snide tone-of-voice. Now.

You may quote and explain Moderator precedent, but you WILL remain respectful of other players.

We have exams?

Oh shoot, this is just like those dreams where I show up to school on the day of the test and know I forgot to study...then suddenly realize I forgot my pants.

Sigh.

Roania's reference to exams appears to be a reference to something in his real life. There are no "exams" on NationStates that I am aware of.

Mass-ejection is griefing and is not allowed under any circumstances (except in officially-designated "Warzone" regions).

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

Saido wasn't the first region that you and your pack of griefers hit, and I know that not all of the others were "consensual". There was absolutely nothing consensual about your invasion of The Avalon, and none of us welcomed having your stupidity forced on us. I know all the other current residents of The Avalon personally and talk to them every day, and am quite sure that none of them invited you to come annoy us. We'd left the region open because we found it interesting to have new people wander in and join us occasionally, but I've locked it down now, against my inclinations, because I don't want you or your like deciding to come back.

You committed at least one offense that could've gotten your nation deleted when you hit The Avalon, and if we natives hadn't regained control of the delegacy and banned you and your toady, and you'd carried out the threats you made while you thought you were on top, that would've been at least two more. And I have no doubt that you would have carried out those threats, because I've seen you do it to three other regions, though one of those sent you back home with your tail between your legs after they got their founder's nation resurrected.

I don't see that it matters in the least if whatever you did in Saido was a consensual game that shouldn't have gotten you deleted, because you earned your deletion in The Avalon, you earned it in ZZZ, you earned it in Sparta.

And if we hadn't regained control of the region without getting the mods involved, I would have reported you and gotten your nation deleted. All of us in The Avalon have been there since the night it was founded, almost a year now, and we're not about to move out just because some idiot's idea of fun involves ruining the game for other people.

Has that ever even occurred to you? That the crap you're pulling is not fun for the people that you're forcing to become involved? That we do not want to play the game that you're forcing us to play?

I was wrong, you greifed 3 other regions besides mine, I thought 2.
I told you three times to stop, And it wasn't even me who turned you to the Mods- so, with all due respect, shut up about it.

Oh, and Gnark, Sparta actually survived, but they got the Imerialist army.

Very well. I can see that besides having absolutely NO sense of humor…you’re a bunch of outright babies.

Let us think back to the invasions of Mon-go and its subjects into other regions shall we? I mean, let’s consider who really got hurt.

First there was the Avalon…a nice little region with several nations. Our forces moved in and took control of the UN delegate position with relative ease. We made our usual demands…”join us or perish”. Then we gave them TWO whole days to comply. Knowing all the while that this was MORE than enough time for the natives to join the UN and retake the delegate position and boot us out. We had some fun and gained some valuable experience and no one in The Avalon was harmed or even moved for that matter. Except the forces of Mon-go, no harm, no foul.

Then there was the region of Sparta. A stagnant region of about four with only one active nation. They refused our demands of “join or perish”…and even went so far as to get their founder re-instated! Now that was a masterstroke of strategic intelligence…I saw the writing on the wall…my forces were doomed. So we retreated to avoid another trip to the Rejected Realms…again, no harm, no foul.

Yeah, so ZZZ and the Imperialist Army got slapped down hard…there’s no denying that. I hand-selected ZZZ because it was another in a huge line of stagnant, do-nothing regions…easy pickings really. BTW, all those nations but one (Saragoth) have ceased to exist due to inactivity.

We held ZZZ for a week after throwing everyone out thinking that Saragoth would express interest in having it back. No can do, that nation is currently about 2 days away from ceasing to exist as well. We deliberately picked ZZZ because of the inactive nature of its nations.

And the Imperialist Army? Bait I suspect. A trap devised by our enemies to cause this very thing. So be it…its destruction was magnificently satisfying.

Then there was Saido…The ONLY reason we went in was because I understood it to be consensual from the get-go… seeing as how one of the members of that land handed me the password to that region and said ‘let’s go’. I didn’t just magically appear there without help…PLUS I had several messages from Rafale saying that he wanted a fight as well.

Of course, NOW Rafale would have you believe otherwise. He never, at ANY point told me to stop as he states in his above posting.

But what happened was that he saw how inactive his neighbors were and got bored waiting the 12 hours or so for me to respond to his TGs…so he moved out of the region looking for fun elsewhere, not realizing that right after he left, we moved in AS PER HIS REQUEST. Sorry you couldn’t have been more patient Rafale…we would have had fun.

So I’ve faced facts here…the original Mon-go is not coming back, which is fine by me. The irony here is that I was not the one who destroyed The Land of Saido…banned everyone? Sure I did that, but I fully intended to give Rafale that fight he begged for…all he had to do was TG me. But in the moderators’ frenzy of deleting my nation and that of my colleague, he sealed Saido’s doom. At least the Mod who did us in had a decent sense of humor with his Flash gordon reference.

With our two nations gone…Saido was no more. Ah, the pure deliciousness of it all! The true destroyers of Saido are the Mods and Rafale’s buddy The EAA Field Commander of Arfon who complained.

It’s kinda sad that Rafale himself didn’t even file the complaint against me…Not sad like “gimmie a tissue”…but sad “pathetic”.

Hmmm, first the honeyed words, then the venom and bitterness.

:lol:

All right, all of you, stop with the vitriol.

Griefing is griefing, no matter if someone is invited to do it or not. It doesn't matter if the members were inactive or a single native said "hey, let's do this" without conferring with the rest.

A region's inactivity is not an excuse to grief it.

"Consensuality" based on a single nation's statement is not an excuse to grief that nation's region.

The punishment for griefing is an instantaneous deletion. No warnings. No quarter given.

That is final. There is no debate on the matter.

Just a man, with a man's courage
He knows nothing but a man, he can never fail
No one but the pure of heart can find the Holy Grail [insert some wailing here]

By the way, I was the one who did it and I stand by my decision, firmly based on the appropriate sections of the rules already quoted previously. The mistake has been made and, hopefully, the lesson learned. Feel free to crash all the regions you want, but avoid griefing. I have full confidence that you are capable of doing so.

--Scolo der Senior Game Mod