NationStates Jolt Archive

Dear Moderation Staff,

I am a little concened, there is a proposal (Enact the Geneva Convention) which has reached quorum, which does nothing more then enact the real life U.N. Geneva convention, its minimal body/content, with a link to the actual real life resolution.

Is this allowed? Is it going to be that easy for people from now on ?

Is this not bring the actual real world into the game, I thought "real life" (I am aware of the "Its related to RL anyway argument, pointing more to it being completely real life if you see what I mean), proposals were banned.

And by the by, there is already a Wolfish Convention on POW, would this not act as a semi-repeal sort of effect, by ignoring the past resolution which handled the issue ?

- Le Représentant de Komokom, Ministre Régional de Substance.
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/komokom.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/24401/page=display_nation)
Aspirez a la legalite avec l'egalite

P.S. :?:

Who should one contact regarding the U.N. specifics now Enodia is gone ?

I was originally going to let the proposal slide, but upon rereading it carefully, I'm going to take it off the proposal list to get more time to consider the legality. This may, indeed, constitute a real-life proposal.

If it's ruled to be legal, then the proposal author may resubmit it with my apologies. However, we still need time to decide on the legality. The wording of the proposal is rather qustionable, especially given the section colored in red (emphasis mine).

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator



Enact the Geneva Convention

A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights.
*

Category: Human Rights
Strength: Strong
Proposed by: Free Pacific States

Description: REALIZING that many civilians and POWs are mistreated by authoritiative and non-authoritative governments alike.

WISHING to end this mistreating.

PROPOSES that at this time the United Nations support the articles of the Geneva Convention relative to the treatment of prisoners for war. These provisions, supported by over 150 nations already, have helped govern the rules of war since 1950. With the UN implamentation, POW and civilian rights during wars everywhere will be protected.

The exact articles can be seen here: http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm

Approvals: 250 (EcoVille, Benyamon, Park Slope-estan, Plinjville, Baudrillard, N8ive America, The Wise Dragon, Concerted Socialists, Prasq, The Vorlon Empire, PrincessLeia, Luftjagger, Atlantic Quays, Hovin, Tactical Grace, Coolet, Spurland, Free Fire Zones, Amory, Jonathalia, Gargomella, Macago, Boring Rocks, Geministan, Jamovia, The Bruce, Wobbledom, Sinn Feins Ireland, The Rainbow Tribe, Teebeestroika, Lamoni, DeaconIsaiah, Dfhdfnyu54, Toddamian, Kholdanus, Cleansing Flame, Stephistan, Some Hole, Cricket Fans, WalesCymru, Gleeb, Lithiumania, Purpleation, JiT, Micropsia, Harry Fung, The land of Kara, Camp Carpenter, Spazzlopia, Squeegalyspooch, Aelon Bythyx, Berquest, Black Kettle, Magicality, 1 Infinite Loop, Taraguy, Stoned Spiritualists, Melmond, Numot, Astronomers, Vincent B, Kandarin, Blackbird, Keldavia, N-SIGN, Wake Forest, Palteau, Plumpkinpatch, Bundt, The Info, Jambea, Bennettia, Voss, Reu, Adsertoris Peoples, Jazzeckle, Saurisilion, Western Might, Erin Cecelia, Monopolosis, Commander Slim, Khanrad, Chinhook, Pilgrimania, Binzer, Levius, Madsenavia, Ethertonia, Mighty Cow, Rhynodor, Moodgies, Hump4free, The Four Kingdoms, Lesbian Ninjas, Corisnethia, Tatronia, Carls_berg, Shermanica, Eldanna, Grand Mitae, Northwest Georgetown, Turetel, Leochness, Lethania, Gombo De Poulet, The Paul, Kerry Haters, Wowwhatacoolcountry, Schwinland, Guo States, Kierig, Cheburashka, C1ndy, Musk Ox, Brytish Empire, Quareat, Chingaringaring, Blue Sharks, Brisbanium, LUKASLAND, Checkers McDog, Avontania, Nintu, Rumdumdum, Hersfold, Shizer Valley, Tozoni, Vin Fata 1, UDOE, New Cheshire, The Guomingdang, RocknRolll, Lower Lawrencium, Womby, Vaenv, Elizryia, Samstonia, Mazzarolo, Sulon, Partiavania, Zapania, Southridge, Spira_1, Jeremyalia, Freedmark, Redwyn, Intio, Horizontally wide, Bonhamia, Liversausage, Tuonela, Skunkabilly, Seymoursnia, The Gargoyle, Spanland, Chanchos, NichollLand, RAVEN HAIRED MAIDEN, Newest Jamaica, Charlie in the Box, Whitey Island, Polyamoralia in Space, Beaumontia, Philpol, Lipitor, Padmez, Knowltonia, Satanic warfare, The Citrix, Nor Anglan, Hegartydom, Gaia Rodina, Whats Left, Triggerzero, Lachish, Morris Land, Reksuh, CHOF CHOF, Shurtugal, Genta, The Bureau, New Septemberland, MrChuck, Oa City, Hartert, Thine Hedge, JoeDaddio, Chertu, Gatsbyness, Wally, PentaBlob, Kerta, Mitsui_14, Neuropica, The Marshal Islands, Ixodepolis, Giant Purple Hamsters, Saxe-Gotha, Feltina, Elloland, Rockfort, Naerdland, Nord-Norge, Free-Jagland, Asiano, Moroboshi, The Island of Rose, Deltasy, Grandmaster Ninjas, Monkey Temple, Berens, Briannus, Civis the Canadian, Dreudel, The Gillig States, Tsarfat, Greeniesville, Billionaries, Mentholyptus, The Ramstad, DERAJ, Knoxan, Bishnoi, Zoogiedom, Burlingame, Corinos, Meerkatea, Nomikia, The Alderran, Twilight Selene, Aztec National League, Erehst, Adejaani, Valhallic Souls, Mandralique, Reanimated, The UN peace core, Squatia, Crags, Everlight, Papsecistan, The Fun Boys, LibDems, Snugonian, Aqrep, Sam Hein, Neo-Lunatics, Dolphinarium, Pheonix Flames, Nar-Shaada)

:D Bon, Thank you for the light speed reply Cog, and I don't suppose you Moderators have a self proclaimed U.N. specialist yet like Enodia kind of acted as ?

- Le Représentant de Komokom, Ministre Régional de Substance.
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/komokom.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/24401/page=display_nation)
Aspirez a la legalite avec l'egalite

I find this disturbing, 250 delegates agree with it and one person complains and it is killed, FPS put a lot of work into getting support for it.

and ther ehas to be other proposals that passed that can be viewed as too realistic.

Like
DVD regional removal
End Slavery
Secretary General
Keep the world Disease Free
Ban Single Hulled Tankers.
Gay Rights
Mandatory Recycling.
Child Labour
Eliminaiton of Bio weapons
Religious Tolerance
Metric Sustem
Child Protection

and pretty much all of them
I implore this proposal be restored and placed in quorum
if it can be removed, it can be restored.

Let's hope that it does get restored. Then, I can commence with the horrific killing of people who can't take decent countermeasures.

However, it seems legal, to my in-expert opinion.

if it can be removed, it can be restored.

Actually, no, it can't.

The Geneva Conventions are an off-site complicated mass that are not agreed by everyone. The one relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War has been modified several times and could be done so again.

It need not be so real and so complicated. Could not those that have come up with this proposal summerize what they want to accomplish without mention of Geneva or the nations of the world or 1950?

Dear 1 Infinite Loop,

Just because 250 delegates agree does not make it right.

Sorry, but think about it, we cannot alllow a proposal that (Granted, yet to be ruled on, but hypothetically,) breaks the rules reach quorum and be voted on, it would discredit the U.N. and to my memory, had it been passed onto the floor and realised then it was an illegal proposal, to my memory moderators cannot remove it from general voting.

There is also the problem of setting a precedent.

Also, I'm going to leave that list of proposals you made alone :wink: , the problem was here that it was simply nothing more then a link to an off site location, and made clear referance to the real world and real events.

In fact, one could probably argue no proposal was written by the author...

No offence, but when you see exactly how much is ... well ... :wink:

Roania, what makes you think its legal ? :)

Florida, Agreed, :D

* Plus has anyone else noted we have a Wolfish Convention on POW in place, and this proposal completely ignored it ?

- Le Représentant de Komokom, Ministre Régional de Substance.
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/komokom.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/24401/page=display_nation)
Aspirez a la legalite avec l'egalite

( Stumbles off, hope he does not get hate mail ... :wink: )

Actually, it looks like Cog removed it not because it refers to the Geneva convention (which could, conceivably, happen here in NS), but because it refers to real world historical events (which did NOT occur here, and are off-topic).

I refer you, again, to the copy of the proposal listed earlier, in which Cogitation emphasized the text, "These measures, supported by 150 nations, have helped govern the rules of war since 1950."

Ah, I've observed that, was just pointing out other factors. :)

- Le Représentant de Komokom, Ministre Régional de Substance.
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/komokom.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/24401/page=display_nation)
Aspirez a la legalite avec l'egalite

Wow, I never thought it would come to a battle about keeping my resoloution in place.

Anywho, although I thank you Loop, I'm not going to object to the moderating staff's removal of my topic. Quite frankly, it IS real life legislature. I mean, there's nothing about it that isn't. I apologize for that, but I didn't even know it was illegal! And on top of this, we already HAVE a convention of POW treatment which I didn't know about!

I originally started that proposal with the intention of keeping POW's and such alive, since there was no such legislature, and since I greatly respect the document. However, having reviewed it, I'm not going to press anyone for it's return. I apologize for any inconvenience to those having gotten involved in this semi-debate, but I simply have little to no argument to keep this proposal alive.

Hey, at least I can say I did get a proposal passed, right? I'll just leave out the part about it being removed...

Hello Free Pacific States,

My personal apology to you over this, after the effort you put in, but I am glad you can see and respect our concerns / issues.

:)

- Le Représentant de Komokom, Ministre Régional de Substance.
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/komokom.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/24401/page=display_nation)
Aspirez a la legalite avec l'egalite

There are other legal issue to consider by implementing international humanitarian protocol within NationStates.

As I'm sure most of you are aware, the creation of an international convention requires not only a list of signatories but ratification from 22 RL nations to come into effect. This might be considered semantic but any incorporation of HL within a simulated environment restricted by code issues have to be considered.

There is also nothing in this resolution discussing the Optional Protocols introduced in 1979 to amend the Geneva Convention to include intra-state conflicts and non-state combatants. Is the author going to introduce these protocols after this one passes and what effect would it have within NS? Is it implied through the link that they are already incorporated?

Has there been a De Facto or even De Jure recognition of non-state organizations that are fighting for nationhood? Do we need to recognize self-determination now so that there are qualifying definitions for all possible parties within a civil insurrection or independence war? If said resolution exists, is it compatible?

This list doesn't even include the Jus in Bellus and Jus Cogens concepts that are brought into play by qeueing this resolution.

If the author wants assistance in rewriting this to be more in line with NS, please TG me as I have had some experience with IHL and IHR.

GEC

*edit, since FPS has spoken I will cease my posts on teh topic*


Dear 1 Infinite Loop,

Just because 250 delegates agree does not make it right.

Sorry, but think about it, we cannot alllow a proposal that (Granted, yet to be ruled on, but hypothetically,) breaks the rules reach quorum and be voted on, it would discredit the U.N. and to my memory, had it been passed onto the floor and realised then it was an illegal proposal, to my memory moderators cannot remove it from general voting.

There is also the problem of setting a precedent.

Also, I'm going to leave that list of proposals you made alone :wink: , the problem was here that it was simply nothing more then a link to an off site location, and made clear referance to the real world and real events.

In fact, one could probably argue no proposal was written by the author...

No offence, but when you see exactly how much is ... well ... :wink:

Roania, what makes you think its legal ? :)

Florida, Agreed, :D

* Plus has anyone else noted we have a Wolfish Convention on POW in place, and this proposal completely ignored it ?

- Le Représentant de Komokom, Ministre Régional de Substance.
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/komokom.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/24401/page=display_nation)
Aspirez a la legalite avec l'egalite

( Stumbles off, hope he does not get hate mail ... :wink: )

Loop,

I believe that when "Fight The Axis of Evil" was passed there was only three UN Nations. Therefore it passed 2 to 1, 66%, far more than is needed for a proposal to pass.

You make a good point, Guiness, but I'm not going to try to retype the resoloution...for now. In time I might actually write something new.

And if you do, I suggest posting it up in the U.N. Forum so its open for viewing and or debate. This can give much needed publicity and make it available to other eyes, so any mistakes can be picked out and edited or re-written to comply.

:)

- Le Représentant de Komokom.

Ministre Régional de Substance.
L'Ordre de Vaillant États.
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/komokom.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/24401/page=display_nation)
Aspirez a la legalite avec l'egalite

<--- Not a Moderator, just a Know It All.

Actually, I did post it on the UN forum, and all I got were a bunch of people saying that it'd been done in another resoloution.

Actually, I did post it on the UN forum, and all I got were a bunch of people saying that it'd been done in another resoloution.

And, ironically enough, it pretty much had, hadn't it ? :wink:

P.S. I freely offer that, in the future, should you write a proposal and post it on the U.N. Forum, Tele'G me and I will browse over it for you, to look for any of the usual contradictions or mistakes and offer support / or advice.

- Le Représentant de Komokom.

Ministre Régional de Substance.
L'Ordre de Vaillant États.
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/komokom.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/24401/page=display_nation)
Aspirez a la legalite avec l'egalite

<--- Not a Moderator, just a Know It All.