NationStates Jolt Archive

I am addressing the moderators on behalf of Christomania.
The controller of Christomania has just that and AJ Town (which was never UN). He has never had any other nation.
He is one of the very many that often use our school's single IP. He also logs in from home sometimes.
Sorry if this is the wrong place, but I think this is it from reading the FAQ.
Thank you,
the ENGLEMAN
Emperor of Engleville

If other people in the school are in the UN and are on the same IP address, there's no way of telling if this is true or if it is just one person UN multiing.

You won't get the country back, as there's no way to prove the above.

<--- not a moderator.

If you log in from on an IP where more UN nations log in, the UN cheat scanner is going to eject you. There's no way for the moderators to know if it's actually a public computer with multiple people using multiple nations or if it's just one man with multiple nations. The mod's can't see who's behind a computer and thus it's one nation per computer.

If your on a computer where any other UN nation logs in, you're bound to get ejected from the UN - even if it's your brother or sister. This has happened many times with family members using one computer. The mods will probably not let Christomania back into the UN. Sorry!

(not a moderator)

well if that's true my whole school would be banned
and most of us are OK
i think maybe it's because most of us also log in from home
the moderaters (or maybe auto cheat scan) have caught a bunch of cheaters from my school. this is the first false alarm.

Even if it is a false alarm, the mods probably aren't going to restore you're UN status. There are very few cases when a nation is let back into the UN.

Is Christomania the only UN nation in his house, or are there siblings or friends that also have UN nations?

(not a moderator)

well if that's true my whole school would be banned
and most of us are OK
i think maybe it's because most of us also log in from home
the moderaters (or maybe auto cheat scan) have caught a bunch of cheaters from my school. this is the first false alarm.

Odd... I thought that schools were meant to contact Max, and that nations used on a .edu were immune to auto-scans.

A lot of schools just have a .org or a .com address, not all schools are .edu.

I never heard that .edu was exempt from the cheat scan. That's interesting.

Schools are granted leniency by the mods, not expemtpion ( as a general rule).

Did you submit a proposal which was against the UN rules? Multiing is not the only offense for which one may be ejected from the UN.

I never heard that .edu was exempt from the cheat scan. That's interesting.

Uh-oh, why does that make me feel we will soon be living in interesting times?

By the by, if this is being accessed from a school and or endorsed by teaching staff or part of a class lesson, might I suggest you go to the news page, there is an interesting bit of info for teachers/educators there that the good Max has seen fit to administer... administer, did I just make a semi-pun? Eh (shrugs).

:wink:

- The Rep of Komokom, RMoS.
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/komokom.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/24401/page=display_nation)

Odd... I thought that schools were meant to contact Max, and that nations used on a .edu were immune to auto-scans.
interesting.....our proxy doesn't have a ".edu" but i'll get the IP on monday and a simple WHOIS will prove that it is a school. how should i contact max?
Is Christomania the only UN nation in his house, or are there siblings or friends that also have UN nations?
i'll ask him about others logging on at his house. that is a possibility.
Did you submit a proposal which was against the UN rules? Multiing is not the only offense for which one may be ejected from the UN.
i don't think he ever had enough endorsements to make a proposal, but i'll ask him.
By the by, if this is being accessed from a school and or endorsed by teaching staff or part of a class lesson, might I suggest you go to the news page, there is an interesting bit of info for teachers/educators there that the good Max has seen fit to administer
well it's not exactly endorsed by the school, but is one of the few non-school-related things they let us get away with

thank you all for your thoughts on this matter

This nation has been determined to be in breach of UN rules, which allow you to only have one nation in the UN at any given time. It has thus been ejected and barred from re-joining.
he just told me that that was the beginning of the e-mail
so it wasn't a proposal

may he join the UN as his other nation, AJ Town?

he also told me no one has aver logged in from his house. i'm walking him through getting his IP address (but he's not the smartest knife in the drawer, so this may take a while)

UPDATE: * is his home IP. it is dynamic, but is fairly constant

That message is sent out no matter if you were ejected for multiing or for a proposal. It's an automatic thing.

ok i asked him again
he got voting on a resolution confused with making a proposal
he never made a proposal

Ok, I'm the one who did the ejection.. I have checked and double checked. There is no evidence that these multi's came from a school. I didn't delete the rest of the multi's because I was waiting to discuss it with another person on the mod squad. I will warn you that at least two other nations ejections are pending and I will probably get around to that in a bit. three nations came up on the cheat scan.. I highly doubt if it was a school that only three nations would of come up. Also, I didn't just check an ip#, we have more then one way to find cheaters. I stand by my ejection and two nations will also now be ejected as multi's. You're not being deleted.. just ejected from the UN.

Stephanie
Game Moderator

Sometimes it backfires to complain. There is a thread about it here somewhere. It is called: "How to treat an NS mod". You should read rule one, and learn it by heart :lol:

*Wishes to have the eject 'em all button too. Well, he have 2 but It's not the same :wink: I want to be mod, aaaaa :cry: *

Sometimes it backfires to complain. There is a thread about it here somewhere. It is called: "How to treat an NS mod". You should read rule one, and learn it by heart :lol:

See, Steph? It should have been stickied... already people are talking about my thread! It needs a bump.

See, Steph? It should have been stickied... already people are talking about my thread! It needs a bump.

I have it stickied, in my regional forum (http://mig81.com/carinthe/viewtopic.php?t=93). It is a good one 8)

i will tell you the schools IP address
and i know noone has been logging on from my house anytime recently
and about this other guy, "Sean Kiely"
i haven't talked to him yet, so maybe he was cheating
but he is a good friend of "Christomania" so i wouldn't be suprised if maybe them 2 were logging in from each-other's houses

i'm sorry for all this inconvenience, but i really have no idea why i was banned. Christomania may have been lying to me, but i haven't done anything.

and i am quite sure that there are others from my school. just about all of them in these regions: Fordham Prep, Fordham Preparatory, Fordham Prep United (*). there has been a bunch of cheating going on (some of which i uncovered, ex: respicit, tenrec, fordham prep), but i think most of us aren't cheaters

thank you,
emperor of engleville

See, Steph? It should have been stickied... already people are talking about my thread! It needs a bump.

I have it stickied, in my regional forum (http://mig81.com/carinthe/viewtopic.php?t=93). It is a good one 8)

I'm touched... :wink:

EngleVille, you will not win this battle. Unless a moderator comes meets with you personally and verifies that you aren't cheating, and the scan says you are, you pretty much are SOL here. Just start a new UN nation, and don't log on from school ever again if that is the case.

<--- not a moderator.

dug up from a log on my webserver
the external IP of the proxy is *
no whois info on that unfortunately
however * resolves to *
and here's the whois info for *:
[code:1:4623f90d48]*[/code:1:4623f90d48]
ok so the IPs aren't exactly the same
but obviously very close
and you can check whois yourself if you don't trust me on that

EDIT: wait am i allowed to do that.....i mean make another UN nation? i always figured that was against the rules

UPDATE: more info
*
*
*
all fall in the * to * range (further evidence that it is used by a school)
the only one i can't account for is *. i'm gonna do a bit of research tommorrow to find out if it even exists, if it's ours, and what it is.

If your original UN nation was ejected for rule violations, you can create another one if you follow the rules.

The moderators have their own way of determining if you are UN multiing, presenting your own evidence is not doing yourself any favors.

<--- not a moderator.

but isn't it obvious that it's a school???
all of us also have school e-mail addresses
* - EngleVille
* - Sean Kiely
* - Christomania
EDIT: ugh....fordhamprep.org isn't resolving to anything at the moment....will probably disrupt incoming email.....but hopefully * fix it soon (btw, stuff like this is why i never use my fordham address for much except school stuff)
EDIT: i am sorry for being so stubborn but i feel like my honesty is being attacked here, and i know that I am innocent, so it is sort of hard for me to give up when i KNOW i didn't even do anything slightly wrong. if a moderator orders me to shut up, i will.

but isn't it obvious that it's a school???
all of us also have school e-mail addresses
engelhac@fordhamprep.org - EngleVille
kielys@fordhamprep.org - Sean Kiely
notoa@fordhamprep.org - Christomania
EDIT: ugh....fordhamprep.org isn't resolving to anything at the moment....will probably disrupt incoming email.....but hopefully Curtin'll fix it soon (btw, stuff like this is why i never use my fordham address for much except school stuff)
EDIT: i am sorry for being so stubborn but i feel like my honesty is being attacked here, and i know that I am innocent, so it is sort of hard for me to give up when i KNOW i didn't even do anything slightly wrong. if a moderator orders me to shut up, i will.

Even if this is a school.. and I have no reason to doubt you given what you have shown me here. I again state. This is not the only way we catch UN multi's. We don't say all the ways we check because we don't want people trying to find ways around our system. I can assure there was more then your ip# as evidence. I find it very hard to believe you were not all the same person. Therefore my decision stands.

You may create another UN nation.

Stephanie
Game Moderator

This is not the only way we catch UN multi's. We don't say all the ways we check because we don't want people trying to find ways around our system. I can assure there was more then your ip# as evidence.

Hmmm, me thinks the sacrifice of the small and fuzzy animal to some mighty pagan power. Does our tech moddling or [violet] take offerings of small animals ? [ Non-refundable I suppose ? ]

( Runs out to back yard carrying family dog and builds a pyre, much to the horror of the new people next door )

... :wink:

Hmmm, actually the above statements gave me pause, but I best not go into it, if only out of respect of the need for security and an effective rule enforcement force.

- The Rep of Komokom, RMoS.
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/komokom.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/24401/page=display_nation)
Continuous Modernisation and Competence Developing

how about this
could you send like a bunch of random characters to myself, aj, and sean at our school adresses
then we can telegram that info back to you
this will prove we are 3 different people, because the school wouldn't give multiple boxes to the same person

EngleVille, you will not win this battle. Unless a moderator comes meets with you personally and verifies that you aren't cheating, and the scan says you are, you pretty much are SOL here. Just start a new UN nation, and don't log on from school ever again if that is the case.

<--- not a moderator.

That's the best piece of advice given to you on this thread, you should really take it to heart.

Your plan won't work. You could just go and log on as your friends from their computer and reply to the telegram and things will look fine and dandy. As said above by Tuesday, the mods don't know who's behind the screen of a computer so they can't do stuff like that. You need to realize that the mods only have limited resources at their disposal, and once they make a decison on a UN ejection, it is very rarely overturned.

A moderator has already said that your UN ban will stand. Coming back and disputing more doesn't help. I would HIGHLY suggest creating a new UN nation and moving on. Although you may be innocent, the evidence at hand says your guilty, so you need to understand the mods position here and why they did what they did.

(not a moderator)

how could i log in as someone else at my school???

looks like i'm just gonna end up applying to join UN as this nation :cry:
btw, my other two nations are "fsoffp emb 1" and "fsoffp emb 2"
so i have a total of 4

Just to let you know, EngleVille, I've gone through this battle before and have seen many others go through it. I've also been playing this game for more than half a year and I've never once seen a UN ban lifted.

You won't win man. Sorry. Just ain't gonna happen.

Even if this is a school.. and I have no reason to doubt you given what you have shown me here. I again state. This is not the only way we catch UN multi's. We don't say all the ways we check because we don't want people trying to find ways around our system. I can assure there was more then your ip# as evidence. I find it very hard to believe you were not all the same person. Therefore my decision stands.

I am beginning to question the accuracy of your other methods. I know the owners of the nations that you had ejected from the UN. I know them personally. I also, saw them log in as their nations. They each contolled one nation, and they did not control multiple UN nations. However, I know for a fact that you can't meet with them personally and verify this. Engleville was once the UN delegate of the region of which I am the founder of. The moderators have also swept by neighboring and very closly related regions and have done a good job of deleting mulitple and offensive UN nations and such. Up until now. However, I cannot change the moderators mind. However, creating a new UN nation does not sound like a bad idea to me.
-The Federation of Seewoknip

i guess Pierre and Miquelon will take my place in the UN
but it's kind of disappointing
i held the record fro most 100% non-cheating endorsements (the guy with most endorsements has since voluntarily resigned from the UN completely and his unfair endorsers were all kicked out (two of them with a tip from me) and some nations were even deleted ex: Andreyastan) in Fordham Prep. (in those days the UN delegate position was highly envied and contested)
fata, acting all so great only has 4 (and one of them is very questionable, but i don't know for sure its a duplicate). of course since he banned EngleVille and will do the same to anyone who gets close, there is little chance that it will ever be a true republic as it was in the days i was delegate (the second time, after andreyastan was deleted).
but anyway yeah, i wish i had my record holding nation back in the UN.

-the whatever of engleville

THREAD EDITS: deleted dbl post, put * in place of info i don't really think ought to be public (if you are someone of authority here and wish to see any of the info i posted (IPs, e-mails, proof that we come from a school), feel free to telegram or e-mail me)

I'm going to bust out my old schpiel.

There's more than one way they determine if someone is cheating. They do more than IP scans. How do I know? Because my roommate and I each controlled a UN nation using the same computer for several months last year. We never recieved as much as an e-mail warning. Now, if they only relied on IP scans, then they would have picked us up and I wouldn't be here now. So that leads me to believe that they have some other high-tech secretive methods for determining cheaters.

When we know the mods can't see distance lands using their supernatural powers the other ways to find a cheater are simple to be puzzled out :wink:
*hides in the dark*

they obviously do have other ways. definetely faulty. perhaps a recode of the system is necessary.
i know it at least somewhat works. i mean my whole school would be banned then. also when i reported a duplicate, a third nation (that i had forgotten about) was also found out and removed from UN
also when FP was under ANdreyastan, he pulled resigned all of his UN nations immideatly after banning me (i had just become UN delegate with 8 endorsements when there couldn't have been any more than like 12 actual UN people there (most were his duplicates, i later confirmed)). anyway all of his were DELETED. the odd thing is, they were all out of the UN at that point. that one i've never exactly figured out, but i don't mind him gone.

EngleVille, there's nothing wrong with the system and nothing needs to be recoded. The moderators have four different ways to detect cheaters, (according to the FAQ) and they do a good job of keeping the game fair. I'm sure that there are some times when innocent (non multing) people get ejected, but what can you do? This is a free game, so you aren't losing anything.

The general rule is one nation to one IP, yes, some nations play it safe and don't get flagged, but if someone gets ejected, they have no excuses. I don't mean to rant, but this is a fairly simple case and a mod has already ruled on it and many experienced players have told you that you should give up - yet you keep trying to get your nation back. This thread is already two pages long and I'm sure the mods have better things to do than keep dealing with this issue especially after so many people have told you to move on. I'm just trying to be helpful.

(not a moderator)

Just because a game doesn't run the way you like it, EngleVille, doesn't give you a right to be the exception to the rules. There have been hundreds, if not thousands, like you booted from the UN for multiing.

This does not mean you are guilty if you truly are innocent, it just means the scans that the moderators use suspect that you are UN multi. It is not a defamation of character or of your moral conduct, it's just something a computer says.

Can their be faults? Of course, with everything there's faults, but the system has worked thus far and will not be changed.

i already gave up. i am now in the UN as "pierre and miquelon." i refrain from logging in at school now.
but i don't understand why you think that rewriting the detection system (due to its obvious faults) isn't a possibility?
of course it would take some work, but its certianly possible.

If you have complaints, e-mail admin@nationstates.net.