NationStates Jolt Archive

I was wondering if I could get some clarification. I realize in advance that this isn't the proper time and place and rst assured I put in my request in the proper place. I share a room at college and quite unfortunately I had Keldjora bookmarked so that all I had to do was click on it check the issues and leave so that I could make it to class on time.

I have a really terrible roommate and again unfortunately I didn't have the foresight to make sure he couldn't do anything stupid with my computer and he did and now my nation is dead. I don't suppose it's ever coming back. To be perfectly honest I've never had any contact with Prodigal Fenian, that my roommate had contact with and I am truely sorry about what was said. I was hoping to have this overlooked but this is obviously out of my hands.

I apologize for posting this here and it won't happen again. Thanks for your time.

Greetings to the NS Moderators,

I am posting here to make a request on the behalf of the region of Aldaria. Two days ago, a member of your fine profession or what is assumed to be deleted The Divine Imperium of Keldjora. I am a personal RL witness to the hacking of Keldjora's password. You see, I live in the same dorm as Keldjora, in fact I live three doors down from him. The day of the deletion he got into an argument with his roommate who told him he used Keldjora's nation to check on the world of NationStates and somewhere in there he got mixed up in the mess with Prodigal Fenian.

Getting to the point, the region of Aldaria would like the NS moderators to resurrect Keldjora. We know he did nothing wrong. He had only received one message himself from Prodigal Fenian before he was deleted. He hadn't responded in any manner violating the rules of NationStates. Again, we only ask that he be resurrected so that we may again be lead by him in Aldaria.

Most Respectfully,

Lady Empress Haleth IX of Achacia

While I sit here and munch on my Whopper and onion rings I have to stifle the urge to vomit. Keldjora would never do something so heinous as to deserve deletion. Such an upstanding and outstanding individual deserves to be believed, even if only just this once. His presence in NationStates has bettered everyone who interacts with him on a daily basis. Those of us who know Keldjora know that he would never spam and is telling the truth concerning this deplorable incident. Why not give him a second chance? Why not give him back his identity and let him prove how he is not and never will be a spammer?

For the record, I am not the Moderator who handled this case.

Players are responsible for the security of their account. Auto-Login is provided as a convenience, but if someone uses this to use your nation to break rules on your computer, there's no way for us to verify this for ourselves.

"Keldjora" will not be resurrected.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

Since when has the word of friends and colleagues become unimportant? The words of people sway all cases where justice is involved. But this seems not to be the case in NationStates.

Allow me to parallel your reasoning. If someone came and stole my car for a joyride and ended up crashing into Cute Puppy Dogs store; that it would not be the fault of the thief, that it would be the fault of the owner, and the owner of the car would be punished while the thief got off scot free?

The car=Nation
Crashing the car=spamming

Since when has the word of friends and colleagues become unimportant? The words of people sway all cases where justice is involved. But this seems not to be the case in NationStates.

Allow me to parallel your reasoning. If someone came and stole my car for a joyride and ended up crashing into Cute Puppy Dogs store; that it would not be the fault of the thief, that it would be the fault of the owner, and the owner of the car would be punished while the thief got off scot free?

The car=Nation
Crashing the car=spamming

In that case, the police can gather fingerprints, obtain alibis, and such. We don't have those kinds of abilities. We also cannot take the word of players as testimony, as this could be faked by rulebreakers. We do not have the resources to go out and visit you in person, so player testimony is not accepted. Only data recorded and stored by the NationStates.net server is used as evidence; this cannot be faked.

The word of friends and colleagues has never been accepted into consideration when investigating rulebreaking on NationStates.

When I have time, I'll come up with a counter analogy, but the above explanation should suffice.

"Think about it for a moment."

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

I hate to say this but if this is true, Perhaps the actual owner of Kel should perfoem some "on site moderation" of the person who got his nation deleted.

Absolutely, if there is in fact a nation that is owned by the hacker of Keldjora please turn yourself in. If there is a conscience in you please bring back a good nation.

Thank you for explaining it Cogitation. Yeah it might take a while to come up with a counter analogy. It sure took a little while to think mine up. I'd love to trade some with you. 8)

The word of friends and colleagues has never been accepted into consideration when investigating rulebreaking on NationStates.

Wasn't there a situation where there was repeated abuse coming from Danya's connection, and the mods took Danya's word for it that it was a family member and not herself?

Ballotonia

I think if an exception is made, there should a rule allowing exceptions for players in all circumstance, otherwise it won't be fair next time someone claims no responisbility do to irresponiosble friends, siblings, etc.

Errr, no offence or anything, but its REALLY easy to walk down the street to the cybercafe and make a bunch of 'friends', then come in and use them to back you up when you need it.
Err...
*runs away*

The word of friends and colleagues has never been accepted into consideration when investigating rulebreaking on NationStates.

Wasn't there a situation where there was repeated abuse coming from Danya's connection, and the mods took Danya's word for it that it was a family member and not herself?

Ballotonia

I clearly remember this case, in which Danya's sibling was the source of the abuse.

Yes, Well I'm pretty sure Kel didn't do this, although I doubt that will make a differnce :(

Yes, Well I'm pretty sure Kel didn't do this, although I doubt that will make a differnce :(

Wasn't there a situation where there was repeated abuse coming from Danya's connection, and the mods took Danya's word for it that it was a family member and not herself?

Ballotonia
Yes, I remember that one. There was also another one when the mods took the word of certain Wysterians who know Eguus and the Bruce both IRL and INS that they were seperate people.

The word of friends and colleagues has never been accepted into consideration when investigating rulebreaking on NationStates.

Wasn't there a situation where there was repeated abuse coming from Danya's connection, and the mods took Danya's word for it that it was a family member and not herself?

I was the Moderator who handled that incident, I was still a Forum Moderator at the time, and I was a bit more naive back then.

<snip>Yes, I remember that one. There was also another one when the mods took the word of certain Wysterians who know Eguus and the Bruce both IRL and INS that they were seperate people.

I'm not familiar with this case.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

To the moderator that this concerns,

There has been a lot of talk regarding Keldjora and the merits of his actions and his subsequent deletion. I am here to tell you that I am the roommate that hacked his password and abused the rules of NationStates. I realize the bluntness of this message and all that I ask is that you resurrect him and delete me.

I have seen a good person taken apart by my actions and I can't allow this to continue. In addition, the RL implications of this fiasco have also taken their toll. My friend, Keldjora, will not speak to me and further more I fear our friendship is endangered because of this. Please grant my request to reinstate Keldjora.

General Hannibal Bethlehem
Clan leader of Nathen Holn

I was the Moderator who handled that incident, I was still a Forum Moderator at the time, and I was a bit more naive back then.
No, you were more flexible. And I thought that it was Reppy who handled that case. Her words were something to the effect of "People will have to be patient. We're going to see if this can be resolved in real life first, since a forum ban would involve banning Danya, and we don't want to lose Danya."

I'm not familiar with this case.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator
I forget which mod handled this. I think It was Neut, but I'm not sure.

Still, I'm sure that Eguus and The Bruce both remember quite well, as well as Black Bears, and many Wysterians.

"...since a forum ban would involve banning Danya, and we don't want to lose Danya."

And yet... :twisted:

"...since a forum ban would involve banning Danya, and we don't want to lose Danya."

And yet... :twisted:
And yet what? :?
Did she get forum banned during one of those weeks when I was to busy to check NS? Or during February vacation?

Well the offender has come forth. What say you now Mods?

I'm not surprised to see who it is. Now that the offender has come forth can a moderator come and check this out.

Well the offender has come forth. What say you now Mods?
I seem to recall the last time that this happened (with Corinthe's deltion) it didn't really work since Alice and Kitty shared an IP, as I assume was the case with Nathan Holm and Keldjora.
One thing, I'm curious about if the mods are willing to share, does the IP of DD and/or Achacia also resolve to the same IP?

Well the offender has come forth. What say you now Mods?
I seem to recall the last time that this happened (with Corinthe's deltion) it didn't really work since Alice and Kitty shared an IP, as I assume was the case with Nathan Holm and Keldjora.
One thing, I'm curious about if the mods are willing to share, does the IP of DD and/or Achacia also resolve to the same IP?


DD is not the same person I'm positive, and I doubt Achacia though I don't know. And I support Keldjora with this, though I know the mods can't tell


I'm more upset with the deletion of Sugar Bear as I'm positive he did nothing wrong and the mods should be able to tell that since there shouldnt have been any ip confusion

Well the offender has come forth. What say you now Mods?
I seem to recall the last time that this happened (with Corinthe's deltion) it didn't really work since Alice and Kitty shared an IP, as I assume was the case with Nathan Holm and Keldjora.
One thing, I'm curious about if the mods are willing to share, does the IP of DD and/or Achacia also resolve to the same IP?

I don't mean to be rude Qaaolchoura, but can we please have moderator and firsthand parties (ie. DD etc.) only. As you are not a mod I would prefer to see only a mod's advice.

I don't mean to be rude Qaaolchoura, but can we please have moderator and firsthand parties (ie. DD etc.) only. As you are not a mod I would prefer to see only a mod's advice.
I'll shut up then.

Since I did not know Kejaldora personally, I can not be a charecter witness and thus have nothing more to add.

I can attest for Keldjora's character, and for he and DD being different people (I have seen their IPs).

I also believe that Danya was forum banned (I think by either Sirocco or Scolo, after she begged them for it [she complained after they did it]).

Off topic-

Danya was forum banned...thank God. :twisted:

We are hoping to hear from a mod on this. We have offered much evidence to support our request and humbly wish to see Keldjora reinstated. Please, we really want him back.

Thank you very much for your support guys. It is greatly appreciated.

To the moderator that this concerns,
There has been a lot of talk regarding Keldjora and the merits of his actions and his subsequent deletion. I am here to tell you that I am the roommate that hacked his password and abused the rules of NationStates. I realize the bluntness of this message and all that I ask is that you resurrect him and delete me.


Straight from the horses mouth. I realize you mods are extremely busy busting the real rulebreakers of the game but could you help us out? A nation has come forth and admitted to perpetrating the acts Keldjora was punished for and has asked for the punishment to be commuted to himself. Could you fulfill the request and resurrect Keldjora whom we now know for certain is innocent? Nobody likes deletion, obviously, so his friend coming forward to face deletion is pretty serious a statement. Resurrect Keldjora! Pretty please? :(

The mods are busy, give them time, they will respond.

Ok, I'll be patient. :wink:

Patience is one of my best virtues, outside of honesty.

I can also attest to Keldjora's good character.....

any random person can say that they were the true hackers... I don't think that testimony is gonna fly. Your nation is gone for good.

any random person can say that they were the true hackers... I don't think that testimony is gonna fly. Your nation is gone for good.

Well, thanks for the input. However, I don't see anything relating to Moderator in your name. I want a MOD RESPONSE ONLY and the responses of the people closely associated with me and this incident. Not to be rude, but it irks me when people butt into business that isn't theirs.

Emperor Xedrethor
Patriarch of the Divine Imperium of Keldjora

I look at it this way:

This other nation has come forward asking to be deleted over the incedent. At this point, I honestly think it matters little whether or not this Nathan Holn is the same person as Keldjora or not. After all, if Nathan Holn is in fact the roommate, justice has been served. If Keldjora owns Nathan Holn as well, he's still losing a nation over the whole incedent.

I can further attest to Kel's character as well.

One more quick request; either a mod or Nate can answer this, and it's really just for my curiosity: who was the one "burninated" by the flame?

Someone has taken control of my nation!

It is against the rules to hijack someone else's nation, and if we see someone do it, we'll ban them. If we don't see it happen, though, and someone changes your password and e-mail address, I'm afraid you're on your own. As far as the game is concerned, your government has been overthrown in a coup.

To prevent people accessing your nation, turn off auto-login if you use a public computer. You should also choose a password that is not easily guessable.No emphasis added.

At this point, you need to either have the Mod responsible weigh in, or appeal to the Admin.

However, since we have no way of verifying that you are separate people (testimony's real nice, but completely unverifiable; the internet's anonymity cuts both ways) the chances of this decision being over turned lie somewhere between "slim" and "none".

This is not stubborness on our part, rather a limitation of what can and cannot be verified. The fact that this "Nathan" aparently committed his dastardly deeds from your computer makes it that much more unlikely for us to tell the difference.

Would an appeal to admin help my case at all? What is the address by the way?

admin(at)nationstates.net

www.admin@nationstate.net?

Yeah, you just don'y usually have www in front of email, just send an email to


admin@nationstates.net

Cool, thanks. :)

Sorry for hopping into this so late, but since Qaaolchoura mentioned our case:

The Bruce and Equus were not deleted - The Bruce lost his UN membership because we both had UN accounts and I mistakenly logged into my UN account from home in an effort to assist in an attack on Franco's Spain. Of course the region was IP scanned and I came up as a duplicate.

HOWEVER, Reploid Productions had an email from us from way back in early 2003 registering us as two separate people (actually, at that point in time, there were 3 of us, as The Imperial Senators of 'Ban Single Hulled Tankers' fame also was our roomate). Also Salusa Secondus kindly took the time to review our IP address logs and probably other things as well -- remember, the FAQ says the game mods have 4 different ways to identify UN duplicates. At any rate, we were eventually able to satisfy Salusa that The Bruce and I are indeed separate people and he returned Bruce's delegacy. While we did have a reassuring outpouring of polite requests from other Wysterians asking for The Bruce's reinstatement, I doubt they swayed Salusa's opinion. It did wonders for my and Bruce's morale though. :)

So not quite the same situation, since neither of us were DEATED, but it is an example of the mods investigating a situation and reversing a decision.

Cool, so I have a remote possibility. I also occurs to me that my roommate never received a warning for his actions. If I'm not mistaken a warning is peremptory to deletion. If I'm wrong could a MOD answer this?