NationStates Jolt Archive

How to treat the mods: A player's guide.

1. Do not, under any circumstances, protest against being given a warning. It's just that, a warning. Nothing more. You will only be deleted if you complain in a loud, obnoxious level, or keep on doing what you were doing.

And quite frankly, then it's your own damn fault. Examples of this include Carthese, and... actually, too many to mention. The Keeper of the Hall maintains an excellent list.

2. If you have been deleted, do not make a new nation for the express purpose of being a jerk to the moderators. They are busy people, and will delete you if you act like an arse again. Nations such as this include Kalamshan/Calamshan, and again, sadly, too many to mention.

3. Never, ever, ever, ever insult a moderator. Under any circumstances. They're just doing their job. The moderators are unpaid, and they keep this entire website operating wonderfully. Be thankful. Sure, if it's not that rude, you might get away with it, but why risk it? The mods are our friends.

4. This is not an independent site. This site is owned by Max Barry. He alone decides what is allowed here, him and his servants the administrators. The mods interpret as they see fit.

You left the rules of your own society behind when you entered this site. People, get that through your heads!

5. Don't make nations whose names resemble those of the mods. The mods reserve the right to delete those nations on sight.

6. Don't waste the Moderators's time.

7. If you really think you were treated poorly, you can send an e-mail to Violet, asking her to review your case.

Don't.

8. Before doing anything whatsoever in this game, you should click the following links and read through to the end. The FAQ (http://www.nationstates.net/pages/faq.html) is especially vital, and the Terms & Conditions (http://www.nationstates.net/pages/legal.html) should be read through, as I've said in the past, at least once a month.


9. When you post a report by the Getting Help Page (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help), remember to, at the top, write what it is you are reporting about. Forum problems go *here*. Everything else goes to theGetting Help Page (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help).

10. No matter how tempting, don't exploit a loophole. Under any circumstances. Yes, I know it's fun, and it may be Human Nature. BUT FIGHT THAT URGE!

It only causes trouble for the Mods.

11. This example was given to demonstrate one of the more difficult problems might have.

Bad Player: HEY! You deleted my nation, and I wasn't doing anything!

Moderator: Yes, you were.

Bad Player: NO I FUCKING WELL WASN'T, YOU STUPID TOTALITARIAN CRAP-SACK!

Moderator: You are the weakest link. *IP pans the bad player* Good bye.

OR

Smart Player: Pardon, but I think you deleted my nation wrongfully.

Moderator: No, we didn't.

Smart Player: Oh. Well, I'll start over from scratch, shall I?

Moderator: Yep.

As you can see, the best thing to do is not get deleted in the first place.

12. It's a very bad idea to compare the mods to totalitarian regimes, especially since in a totalitarian regime you would be killed for even thinking like that.

Ah, for the good old days...

13. Do not post if you are only going to post to insult the mods, and not make a reasoned argument.

14. A basic rule of thumb is, if you can imagine your post making someone cry, then don't post it.

15. (Suggested by The Keeper of the Hall)If you are tired of one of your nations DO NOT get rid of it by Suicide by Mod!, that can get them real annoyed and you end up as another name on the Keeper's list. The proper way is to just ignore it for a month and it will go away from inactivity or you can move it to the Graveyard region.

16 Under no circumstances flame anyone, or insult anyone. Ever. Ever. Ever. Can not be stressed enough.

(Credit for these both go to one of our finest moderators, Neutered Sputnicks)

17. Dont expect the Mods to be on YOUR time schedule.

18. Dont push your luck. Just because you're the consumer does not mean you can be as big a jerk as you'd like and not be told by management to leave.

19. (Recommended by Tactical Grace) The moderators are players just like the rest of us. If you prick them, they will bleed, if you outsmart them, they will cry, and if you flame them too much, they will delete you... okay, so maybe not exactly like the rest of us. But in the all-powerful eyes of the Admin, we and them are one and the same. They have as much right to enjoy the game as we do. Possibly more.

I mean, what would the NS forum be like without Scolo? And Siri? And Melkor Unchained?... actually, it would be a hell of a lot easier for me to conquer. But that's not important. What is important is that they are entitled to take part in any portion of the game that catches their fancy.
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I'll add more as they occur to me.

Something that I have posted in the Tech Forum regarding how to question a mod's actions, or learn the cause for what they have done.

There are two different issues here:

1) The only authority above a mod is admin, and they aren't likely to overrule them, so you pretty much have to do what they say.
2) Mods must be held accountable for their actions.

This combination is what makes life interesting so this is my recommendations should you desire explanation for a Mod's actions or feel they were unjust (which is essentially saying you want an explanation). When you make your post please remember the following:

1) Keep it polite, civil, and non-confrontational. Remember point #1. If you piss off a mod, it will just make everyone's lives more difficult, and it can count as griefing. Not to mention, as they are people, they will give all of your requests lower priority and it will take longer.
2) Do not accuse a mod of doing something wrong, ask why they did it and then be patient.
3) Listen to what the mod has to say, even if you don't agree with it. If it seems reasonable (even if you don't agree) accept it and move on your way. If you still don't understand, politely ask for clarification.
4) If it seems unreasonable, sit on it for a day or two and think about it.
5) If it still seems unreasonable, and you consider it especially important (as in abuse of mod powers), then you should probably say so (politely) in the thread, listing your direct complaints. Please listen to what the mod has to say and what the community has to say. If a significant number of people in the forum supports the mod's actions, they are almost definitely in the right. Don't continue as you will lose the argument. People, as a whole, don't kiss up to mods, and really do express their honest opinions. If forum members tell you that you are in the wrong, LISTEN TO THEM.
6) If it still seems unreasonable then you might want to consider emailing admin@nationstates.net

P.S. NEVER send a telegram to a mod related to moderator business unless SPECIFICALLY requested to.

Thank you, SS. Can't an old player have some joy?

You're still grumpy because I didn't say Merry Christmas to you, aren't you.

Just adding to what you said, not replacing.

And yes, I am still grumpy

Aw... *gives SalusaSecondus a giant Easter Egg*

I just thought of some more.

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8. For the love of God, read the FAQ, people!

9. When you post a report by the getting help page, remember to, at the top, write what it is you are reporting about. Forum posts go here, and TM posts get put through the getting help page.

10. No matter how tempting, don't exploit a loophole. Under any circumstances.

Nah, loop holes are great fun 8)

j/k mostly

8. For the love of God, read the FAQ, people!


And the stickys like how to avoid region griefing and so and so forth

11. It's a very bad idea to compare the mods to totalitarian regimes, especially since in a totalitarian regime you would be killed for even thinking like that.

Ah, for the good old days...

Right.

Combie Drivers, that is it. I want to know just what your old nation is, and what your grudge against the mods is meant to be.

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12. Do not post if you are only going to post to insult the mods.

13. A basic rule of thumb is, if you can imagine your post making someone cry, then don't post it.

Hello, Mods? I'd like to announce a high-jacking in progress.

What?

It isn't?

Oh, dear...

14. This example was given to demonstrate one of the more difficult problems might have.

There are two ways it can go:

YES IT IS A HIGHJACKING, I AM THE LEWT M4$+ER!

Result: Deletion, especially if the guy goes on, and on, and on...

Or,

All right, maybe it isn't a highjacking.

Result: Nothing happens to the player.

Maybe I should use an example besides highjacking...

Combie drivers.

How to treat the mods: A player's guide.


10. No matter how tempting, don't exploit a Loophole. Under any circumstances



Oh Yeah I agree with this one, those who even attempt to break this one will be killed.

13. A basic rule of thumb is, if you can imagine your post making someone cry, then don't post it.


:lol:

I think this is very good to post this. Bravo, to Roania for posting this, and bravo to the mods for donating their valuable time for the sake of helping out....

Really? Wow... I wasn't doing this for me, I was doing it for my fellow players!

*smiles really big cheesy smile*

*God, this is uncomfortable*

Really? Wow... I wasn't doing this for me, I was doing it for my fellow players!

*smiles really big cheesy smile*

*God, this is uncomfortable*
Thanks for the ref to the Great List :-)
Here's another one for your list
"If you are tired of one of your nations DO NOT get rid of it by Suicide by Mod!, that can get them real annoyed and you end up as another name on the Keeper's list. The proper way is to just ignore it for a month and it will go away from inactivity or you can move it to the Graveyard region.

(3rd person ref to my list to save you a bit of editing) :)

Duly added, Keeper.

It is an interesting read, but would that many people read it?

I have found that much of the issues deal with maturity levels. Those that are mature tend to not draw the attention of the mods or take their punishment/warnings when they deserved it.

Those that are immature; do the whining and complaining when punished/warned.

hmmmm?

Well, if they don't read this, then do something stupid and get deleted... I won't lose any sleep. I'm funny that way.

5. Don't make nations whose names resemble those of the mods. It's a very bad idea, and a deletable on sight offense.


That's not actually true

Sometimes it's true. I guess it's on a case by case basis and depends on which mod's handling it. I know "NS Admin" was zapped on site, but "Neut" has been allowed to remain because the nation's flag etc makes it very clear he is not a GM.

Sometimes it's true. I guess it's on a case by case basis and depends on which mod's handling it. I know "NS Admin" was zapped on site, but "Neut" has been allowed to remain because the nation's flag etc makes it very clear he is not a GM.

Yeah, pending on the name & your posts they may delete you but it's not a 'deleteable on sight offense' & nowhere on the site rules etc does it say that it is...at least, when I trawled through them all about 3 weeks ago it didn't & I've spoken to a Mod re.the issue too so I'm pretty sure

Sometimes it's true. I guess it's on a case by case basis and depends on which mod's handling it. I know "NS Admin" was zapped on site, but "Neut" has been allowed to remain because the nation's flag etc makes it very clear he is not a GM.

Yeah, pending on the name & your posts they may delete you but it's not a 'deleteable on sight offense' & nowhere on the site rules etc does it say that it is...at least, when I trawled through them all about 3 weeks ago it didn't & I've spoken to a Mod re.the issue too so I'm pretty sure


I think Cognation was allowed as well

I think Cognation was allowed as well
No, he's DEAT, check out Unfree's Hall of Ex-Nations.

Great list by the way Roan.

I disagree on the never appealing rulings though.

I've gotten mod rulings on minor issues repealed, simply by not making a big deal out of it. I've also gotten rulings repealed by making a big deal out of it along with several other people. . . :p

I am just saying this so dont take offense but with so many rules and not much of a check system NS is begining to look alot less like a Nation Simulation game. Isnt that whats its supposed to be? I mean not all nations are nice and PC, some nations cause trouble and thats how nations are. Now dont get me wrong I completely agree that there must be a line but maybe that line has gone too far just maybe, and since I believe we all really like this game and want to keep it fun and in Character I believe that Maybe how ever small it may be is big enough for us to think at least about it.

Also I have read Jennifer Goverment and it seems that certain things in the book would be along the lines of stuff that would get you deleted in the game. I dont believe that should be so? Do you?

Provast

just to clear things up the mods have frequently said how they are not a totalitarian regime well here is the definition in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary of Totalitarian

of or relating to or advocating a political regime based on the subordination of the individual to the state and strict control of all aspects of life by coersive measures and the ultimate use of fear.

Webster Dictionary.

Also based on this comment look at the begining reponse to Old Combie Drivers.

Does that response and the actions of the mods, not their founding or excistence but their current actions fit the definition posted above.

just to clear things up the mods have frequently said how they are not a totalitarian regime well here is the definition in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary of Totalitarian

of or relating to or advocating a political regime based on the subordination of the individual to the state and strict control of all aspects of life by coersive measures and the ultimate use of fear.

Webster Dictionary.

Also based on this comment look at the begining reponse to Old Combie Drivers.

Does that response and the actions of the mods, not their founding or excistence but their current actions fit the definition posted above.

That's great, except for one thing. No one forces you to come here. You have the option to not return at any time, whether you choose to accept that option, or not, is entirely your decision. We cannot force you to keep coming back, you do so of your own free will with the understanding that you return means that you accept the rules and agree to abide by them.

ok unlike most of the people complaining about the mods I do not want to get rid of the mods altogether I just want to change NS for the better and I feel that inorder to do that there must be a revision of the moderator rules and abilities.

In that last message I was merely just stating that the moderators authority was infact totalitarian in form. And that in a better NS that would be reduced.

I want to play NS I think it is really fun i just know it can be better.

I want to play NS I think it is really fun i just know it can be better.

Then, so long as you play by the rules stated, it'll be a fun game. It's when people break the rules, then complain about them, that the game is made less fun for all those involved.

I happen to disagree how would u feel if your nation that was a year old was just deleted for no reason. I think u would be pretty pissed off. Besides I have been playing a good amount longer then u and I have seen NS better.

I think I would be pretty pissed off if this year old nation was deleted for no reason .... BUT ... I haven't any fear of it being deleted, much less without any reason! That's because I play by the rules and respect them.

You're not going to win anyone to your side with this, you know.

well for the sake of NS i hope i do get people on my side, because I thought as u did but I did play by the rules and I lost my nation.

just to clear things up the mods have frequently said how they are not a totalitarian regime well here is the definition in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary of Totalitarian

of or relating to or advocating a political regime based on the subordination of the individual to the state and strict control of all aspects of life by coersive measures and the ultimate use of fear.

Webster Dictionary.

Also based on this comment look at the begining reponse to Old Combie Drivers.

Does that response and the actions of the mods, not their founding or excistence but their current actions fit the definition posted above.

I put the "and" above in bold in order to help demonstrate why any actions of the NationStates moderators cannot fit the definition given. Because the word "and" is used, both conditions, 1) that there be subordination of the individual to the state and 2) that there be strict control of all aspects of life, must be present for the given definition to apply.

Condition 1 doesn't apply, because NationStates is not nor ever has been a recognized government, state, or nation. Because NationStates is not nor ever has been a recognized government, state, or nation, the enforcement of NationState's rules is not subordinating anyone to any such entity. NationStates is a private organization, and so, as Neutered Sputniks has already said, participation is completely voluntary.

Condition 2 doesn't apply becuase NationStates does not and cannot control all aspects of your life, just the bits that have to do with this single site on the Internet. Again, NationStates has no absolute hold against any user outside of this site, so said users can walk away at any time. Therefore, NationStates is powerless over ones life and existance.

The fact that Condition 1 doesn't apply means that the first half of the "and" is false, making the entire assertion false. The fact that Condition 2 is also false need not even be considered, but does serve to confirm that the assertion of totalitarianism, as defined by the entry from the dictionary given above, is false.

In that last message I was merely just stating that the moderators authority was infact totalitarian in form. And that in a better NS that would be reduced.


The statement is false, for the reasons given above.

Sometimes it's true. I guess it's on a case by case basis and depends on which mod's handling it. I know "NS Admin" was zapped on site, but "Neut" has been allowed to remain because the nation's flag etc makes it very clear he is not a GM.

Yeah, pending on the name & your posts they may delete you but it's not a 'deleteable on sight offense' & nowhere on the site rules etc does it say that it is...at least, when I trawled through them all about 3 weeks ago it didn't & I've spoken to a Mod re.the issue too so I'm pretty sure

It's more at matter of us reserving the right to delete on sight.

If I may suggest an amendment or two:

8. For the love of God, read the FAQ, people!

Could be replaced by:
8. For the love of God, read the FAQ, people! This includes the 'terms and conditions'

I'm amazed at how few people seem to have read them: they have after all given their consent to them by creating a nation here.

3. Never, ever, ever, ever insult a moderator. Under any circumstances. They're just doing their job. The moderators are unpaid, and they keep this entire website operating wonderfully. Be thankful. Sure, if it's not that rude, you might get away with it, but why risk it? The mods are our friends.

Could well have the following added to it:

You should not be insulting anyone participating in Nationstates, never mind the Mods. To do so is to break the 'terms and conditions' to which you have consented.


My $0.02

Thank you, BWO, your suggestions have been taken on board. Hack, point #5 has been edited.

Provast, stop saying the mods are totalitarian.

Okay, anyone have any suggestions?

Ya, loopholes are grand.

I once got HTML to work in World Factbook Entries, pictures and all. Then Salusa sealed this hole that allowed me to do so, but it was fun while it lasted.

Ya, loopholes are grand.

I once got HTML to work in World Factbook Entries, pictures and all. Then Salusa sealed this hole that allowed me to do so, but it was fun while it lasted.


The same happened in the regio MOCKBA, was that you as well?

But great thread Roania, maybe it should be in the Archive or stickied... :)

Okay, anyone have any suggestions?

References to the FAQ (http://www.nationstates.net/pages/faq.html), Getting Help (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) page, and the Terms & Conditions (http://www.nationstates.net/pages/legal.html) should be hyperlinked.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

...

I'll discuss with the other Moderators about whether or not to sticky this.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

How about not challenging the right of Moderators to play the game themselves, through participation in debate and regional politics?

Honestly, every now and then people turn up with this strange idea that in the interests of "impartiality" and to avoid "bias", we shouldn't do anything other than deal with complaints. :roll:

Well gee TG, how dare you try to enjoy the game? Sheesh :roll:

:lol:

3. Never, ever, ever, ever insult a moderator. Under any circumstances. They're just doing their job. The moderators are unpaid, and they keep this entire website operating wonderfully. Be thankful. Sure, if it's not that rude, you might get away with it, but why risk it? The mods are our friends.

13. Do not post if you are only going to post to insult the mods.

Remember Roania, it's "mod" not "god"...

If the mods do something stupid, they will be insulted just like any non-mod who does something stupid. Now, I'm not talking about starting a flame fest here or anything...more of a "if you do something that's out of line, I'm going to call you on it".

Luckily, our mods rarely, if ever, do something "out of line"...this was just a clarification and my opinion on your "rules".

3. Never, ever, ever, ever insult a moderator. Under any circumstances. They're just doing their job. The moderators are unpaid, and they keep this entire website operating wonderfully. Be thankful. Sure, if it's not that rude, you might get away with it, but why risk it? The mods are our friends.

13. Do not post if you are only going to post to insult the mods.

Remember Roania, it's "mod" not "god"...

If the mods do something stupid, they will be insulted just like any non-mod who does something stupid. Now, I'm not talking about starting a flame fest here or anything...more of a "if you do something that's out of line, I'm going to call you on it".

Luckily, our mods rarely, if ever, do something "out of line"...this was just a clarification and my opinion on your "rules".


Yes but you don't insult a Mod in the same kind of way,

Its very polite like "Mods I Think You Have Done Something Wrong" not "Shutup You N00b!!!"

haha...well...anyone who calls a mod a n00b... :wink:

SB, what do you mean?

Damn.

*shouts at construction crew*

Okay, boys! Forget the temple! Go and build some sort of Casino!

(All suggestions have been added)

Bump, because people are losin' respect for the mods.

*flicks the nearest mod with her whip* "Yah mod! Faster! Move! Pull, curse you, pull!!*

Uh...um...yeah :oops:

Anyway, I was just wondering if this could somehow be transplanted into the "All About Mods and How to Become One" sticky, just for aesthetics. :P

Never! It's my personal thread, and I'm bumping it because it just got mentioned in another moderation thread!

For those who came in late, this thread tells you how to deal with the moderators.

For those who came in late, this thread tells you how to deal with the moderators.
I dunno, it seems wider-ranging than that ... how to deal with other human beings, maybe? :wink:

For those who came in late, this thread tells you how to deal with the moderators.
I dunno, it seems wider-ranging than that ... how to deal with other human beings, maybe? :wink:

There are *other* human beings?... :shock:

In all seriousness, though, do you really think so?

Well, yes. Things like "if you ask someone politely, you have a better chance of them helping you than if you rant and scream and whinge at them." Or "I am visiting another country, it would be a very good idea if I checked what the local laws are before finding myself banged up in a foreign jail, with a big bearded hulk grinning at me."

'S hardly rocket science, is it?