NationStates Jolt Archive

I am unaware of the appropriate place to protest moderation action, so I have posted a response in the thread where warning was delivered, and include a copy of that opposition post here under the assumption that the moderator will be more likely to see it here.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=131865&start=20&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=][/url]
She [Salishe] has clearly demonstrated ignorance on any number of issues multiple times in multiple posts through out these forums, including at least twice as demonstrated in this particular thread. Hence I title her with full justification as "ignorant."

I use savage in the noun form, which means a person regarded as primitive or uncivilized. She has quite clearly demonstrated a lack of basic understanding of her obligations of the society, the United States, of which she is part.

She does not understand the prefered economic model, free-market capitalism with anti-monopolistic government regulation, to any degree as evidenced by her inability to evaluate competitors to Halliburton Company as well as her fallacious assumption in prior threads that capitalism is an egalitarian economic system.

She does not understand the prefered political model, a constitutional republic. A constitutional republic requires that its populace remain well informed and educated in order to continue functioning, a duty which she thumbs her nose at in her demonstrations of ignorance. She does not understand that a constitutional republic intentionally is designed to avoid tyranny, yet she has played the part of a petty despot in prior threads by attempting to order those who justly disagree with her to be silent.

She does not understand the prefered cultural model, which adheres to the principle of "do whatever you like, so long as you do not interfere in another person's ability to do as they like." She has demonstrated this by implying I should have reason to fear her personally if we were debating in real life, since she would likely, willingly and knowingly resort to violence to enforce her despotic and tyrannical attitude and silence opposition to her.

She is, as I have maintained justly and reasonably, a savage.
Therefore, justly and reasonably, I assign her the title of ignorant savage.

I have no intent to insult her; if she finds such a title insulting then she should stop behaving in the fashion that leads to it being a justified and reasonable title for her.

If you, personally, find such a title insulting, I humbly suggest, out of a sense of mercy or compassion, that you inform Salishe as I have that her behavior justifies this title and make suggestions as to how to improve herself and remove that justification.

Therefore, I oppose your conclusion that I have stepped over a line, that I have flamed or intentionally insulted her, or that she has been unfairly treated despite her severly flawed attempts at civility. I understand fully why such a conclusion would be reached, given that you are only human, and cannot monitor all posts at all times and are thus not fully aware of Salishe's ignorant savagry. I hope the explaination provided has illuminated the justification behind that title adequately, and thus remedied your incorrect conclusions.

Justified or not, it seems like loaded language to me.

If someone is overweight, has bad skin, and treads on my foot, I don't yell: "Hey! You're a fat pimply klutz!"

I just say "Ouch! You're on my foot!"

Otherwise I'm asking for a hard time, however truthful my remarks may be.

Ok.. this I am truly surprised at. I can't believe you're even trying to justify your actions and then turn around and be even more inflammatory in your response to why it was justified.

Example of what you said..

Ignorant savages such as you don't know what civilization is. How can we expect you to honestly know what civility is and when it is appropriate?

That was just one line I took from your diatribe. This is unacceptable conduct on these forums. We have rules, to me it sounds like you haven't read them, I suggest you do so. As I said in the warning, if you can't get along with this person then don't respond to them. Simple! What you don't have a right to do is talk to people like this. The fact that you complained about my warning in another inflammatory way will now earn you your second warning. One more warning and you will be deleted.

When you hit that "I Agree" button you accepted our rules. I don't really care if you don't like them and think it's ok to call people "Ignorant savages " it's not ok to do on NationStates. So either correct your conduct or it will be corrected for you!

Stephanie
Game Moderator

I am glad you replied in the expected fashion, Stephistan. It is good to know that tyranny is not dead, and the aphorism, "absolute power corrupts absolutely" still applies. I was beginning to fear the moderators here were rational people who understood the philosophy underlying modern Western states and that my chosen profession in the military, a position that requires fighting and opposing tyranny, might be on the verge of extinction.

Thank you for not dissappointing, and consider this my official, "fuck you tyrant, give me liberty or give me death, yadda yadda yadda" post.

This forum might be large, but the deletion of this simulated country is no loss to me, and the loss of a defender of rational belief from the forums is a loss only for you.

I do have a right to talk down to, and verbally attack people who are ignorant in the fashion illustrated by Salishe. Your despotic order demanding that I not reply to them is part of the problem that continues to allow them to damage society and is partially responsible for the sorry and repetative state of the forums you yourself have whined about on occasion, Stephinie. Your stance of tyranny is one that is fully expected in a private forum such as this.

When I hit the "I Agree" button, I accept that your rules were once premised on the same philosophy that underlies Western style republics and give you the benefit of the doubt that they still are. Since it is quite clear your leaders, such as Stephanie, have descended into tyranny, my assumption is proven wrong and I can no longer agree.

You will never "correct" my conduct, tyrant; certainly not with your trivial threat and action of deletion and banning from this sluggish site. Feel free to delete away, it is your loss not mine.

My thanks to Stephistan for allowing me to post around her lock.

I want to refute a few points made by Cartese. Note that these refutations regard NationStates rules, that I issue these refutations while speaking in the capacity of a NationStates official, and that these refutations are not subject to debate. Hence, this topic will remain locked after I post.

These are the Terms and Conditions that all players must agree to in order to play NationStates or post on NationStates.net forums. (http://www.nationstates.net/pages/legal.html) I will be referring to the Terms and Conditions more than once in this post.

She is, as I have maintained justly and reasonably, a savage.
Therefore, justly and reasonably, I assign her the title of ignorant savage.

I have no intent to insult her; if she finds such a title insulting then she should stop behaving in the fashion that leads to it being a justified and reasonable title for her.

You may submit content to NationStates.net so long as it is not obscene, illegal, threatening, malicious, or defamatory, does not invade the privacy or infringe the intellectual property of a third party, and does not constitute "spam."

By agreeing to this site's Term and Conditions, you agreed not to post any malicious content to any part of this site.

Your objections against "Salishe" could have been issued without the use of the phrase "ignorant savage". While calling someone "ignorant" is, in my opinion, merely borderline flamebait, calling someone "savage" is malicious. The word "savage" carries with it a malicious connotation that can do little but provoke further non-constructive arguments. "Ignorant savage" is even worse. I presume this malicious connotation that I speak of to be very common throughout English-speaking communities and is, in my official opinion as NationStates Moderator, inescapable. Thus, I officially and unilaterally deny that it was not your intent to insult her.

So, while I agree with you on the point that "Salishe" ought to stop behaving in such a fashion, you have nevertheless committed a NationStates rule violation by putting it in malicious terms.

I was beginning to fear the moderators here were rational people...

This is defamatory and, in my opinion, contains no redeeming qualities (unlike the above, which at least had* the potential to be a valid, civil argument prior to your malicious use of the word "savage").

* Note past tense: "...had the potential...."

...and that my chosen profession in the military, a position that requires fighting and opposing tyranny, might be on the verge of extinction.

Just as an aside: Three NationStates Moderators are also serving in the military. While I can't speak for them, I'm guessing that they would take exception to your chosen method of fighting tyranny here on the NationStates.net forums.

I do have a right to talk down to, and verbally attack people who are ignorant in the fashion illustrated by Salishe.

Incorrect. The Terms and Conditions (to which you agreed) prohibit you from talking to other players in this manner, regardless of the manner in which they act.

When I hit the "I Agree" button, I accept that your rules were once premised on the same philosophy that underlies Western style republics and give you the benefit of the doubt that they still are.

Incorrect. When you hit the "I Agree" button, you accept the Terms and Conditions as they are set out by Max Barry. You do not presume that they are based upon any underlying philosophy of your choice* and you do not presume that the philosophy of your choice* supercedes the Terms and Conditions of this site or otherwise allows you to violate the Terms and Conditions and still use this this site.

* Note emphasis: "...your choice...."

BY USING THIS SITE, YOU SIGNIFY YOUR ACCEPTANCE TO THESE TERMS OF USE. If you do not agree to these terms and conditions, do not use this site.

Since it is quite clear your leaders, such as Stephanie, have descended into tyranny, my assumption is proven wrong and I can no longer agree.

You will never "correct" my conduct, tyrant; certainly not with your trivial threat and action of deletion and banning from this sluggish site. Feel free to delete away, it is your loss not mine.

First, I make a distinction between exerting absolute control over people, which is the characteristic of tyrannical governments, and exerting absolute control over property, which is the domain of the owner of said property. Max Barry exerts absolute control over his property and the activities conducted with his property. He does not, however, exert any control over the people who visit his property (beyond requiring that people conform to his code of conduct while visiting his property). Thus, NationStates.net is not, by definition, a tyranny.

Second, this game and the server it is hosted on are both the property of Max Barry.* By posting messages on this forum, you are posting messages on Max Barry's property. You make use of Max Barry's property only at the pleasure of Max Barry and those he has authorized to enforce the rules in his name. Even if exerting control over property could be euphemistically referred to as "tyranny", we can not be said to have "descended into tyranny" because it has always been the case that Max has the right to exert absolute control over his property, whether he chooses to do so directly, or through the use of agents (namely, NationStates Administrators and Moderators).

While you are not required to correct your behavior, we also are not required to allow you to post messages to this site.

* Once the site has migrated to jolt.co.uk, it will be on Jolt's property. Who makes the rules then is the concern only of Jolt officials and Max Barry. The point still stands that anyone visiting this site must adhere to the rules of this site.

Therefore, I reinforce the conclusion that you have stepped over-the-lines, that you have flamed and intentionally insulted "Salishe", and that you have treated her unfairly. I hope the explaination provided has adequately illuminated the justification behind denying you access to this site and thus remedied your incorrect conclusions.

I again assert that the above reflects official NationStates.net policy and is not subject to debate.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

I was beginning to fear the moderators here were rational people who understood the philosophy underlying modern Western states and that my chosen profession in the military, a position that requires fighting and opposing tyranny, might be on the verge of extinction.
Neutered Sputniks: Senior Airman, United States Air Force.
Karmabaijan: Cadet Third Class, United States Air Force.
Scolopendra: Cadet Third Class, United States Air Force.

Honestly, I am rather disappointed. If you are going to announce your calling in the profession of arms, carry yourself like a professional.

You do a disservice to us all otherwise.

I was beginning to fear the moderators here were rational people who understood the philosophy underlying modern Western states and that my chosen profession in the military, a position that requires fighting and opposing tyranny, might be on the verge of extinction.
Neutered Sputniks: Senior Airman, United States Air Force.
Karmabaijan: Cadet Third Class, United States Air Force.
Scolopendra: Cadet Third Class, United States Air Force.

Honestly, I am rather disappointed. If you are going to announce your calling in the profession of arms, carry yourself like a professional.

You do a disservice to us all otherwise.

And might I mention, my Father is currently deployed to Iraq: Staff Sergeant, United States Army Reserve (Activated)

My recently deceased Grandfather walked with a limp till the day he died from a wound he suffered while serving aboard the USS Missouri: Seaman, United States Navy

My family has a long and honorable history of service to our Country. To call yourself a military professional is an insult to not only those of us currently serving, but to those who have served before. If you feel that your current profession allows you the right to post insults towards not only Salishe, but the entire team of Administrators and Moderators of this site as well, I assure you, it does not. Your attempt to declare your right to make defamatory and malicious posts through the credence associated with members of the armed forces besmirches the names of all men and women called to the profession of armed service to their respective countries.

Your dishonorable actions bring great discredit and dishonor upon yourself and the armed forces.

As someone announcing your calling to the profession of arms, you should present yourself in a professional manner.

Like so:

http://www.nationstates.net/images/nslogo_small.jpg


17 March 2004

MEMORANDUM FOR NATIONSTATES ADMIN
MODERATORS
STEPHISTAN

FROM: Cartese

SUBJECT: Complaint regarding moderation actions.

Ma'am, I am at issue with your views of Western culture and believe that
your opinions are coloring your moderator actions. I wish to further discuss these conflicts
over private channels.

Cartese
CARTESE
Concerned Nationstates Player




Looks much more professional than “you’re an ignorant savage”

Cartese, on the off-chance you're still reading this, I'd like to assure you that you are much, much more foolish than Salishe every could be. One of the most amazing things about the United States is that everyone is allowed to hold whatever opinion they desire, no matter how wrong it may be. Thus, Shalise is allowed to hold her opinion, and you are allowed to shut up about it.

However, this is a private site. Owned by an Australian. And I can assure you we would never tolerate anyone treating anyone the way you treated Salishe, let alone the way you treated the mods.

Since this is a privately owned site, the rules of the society you live in no longer apply. Instead, there are only the rules of Max Barry, and the way the mods choose to interpret them. This is beyond foolishness. I'm pretty sure that if you talked to your commanding officers the way you've treated the mods, they'd have you court-martialed.

So, shut up, and move on.

A word to the rest of you, and a reminder to myself. Everyonce in a while, actually go and re-read the site rules and regulations. It would make things so much easier. On all of us.

Sorry to butt in people, but I figured, since the arguement was pretty one sided..I'd attempt to play devil's advocate.

It IS true that Cartese was in error in calling another poster an "ignorant savage" but...

Is it possible that the anger directed towards him, was sponsored by a heated debate, wherein the two sides have vast differences of opinion?

I see other posters using words like "fags", and no action is taken...even after that poster makes several references to killing homosexuals.
Comparatively speaking..."ignorant savage" is hardly a deep insult.

Not saying the decision was wrong...but, was it right to take action on that insult, and not others?
Is it likely that the arguement went too far, and both sides were in need of cooling off?

Maybe.....I dont know..I wasnt there.
But his later post.....pretty much dared others to delete him.

From what I understand, his treatment of Shalishe has been an on-going thing. Also, it's against the rules to call people fags, and if it was reported more people would be deleted.

Also, and from my own personal experience, sometimes the more thought out insults sting the most. I made a thread about that, actually. Anyway, I've some how lucked out, and haven't been given any warnings at all in my entire career here.

He was given a warning, and he reacted nastily. There really isn't much you can do at this stage. I'm really, really irritated by him hiding behind the fact he's in the military. It's cowardly, and it is an insult to every soldier, and would-be soldier.

I'd use harsher words, but Neutered Sputnicks has demonstrated restraint, so... yeah.

Im sure he wasnt deleted at the first warning.....I dont think any of the mods are that evil.
Im sure he dug his own grave....I just figured I'd provide an alternative perspective.

Cadet Third Class, United States Air Force

I just came from the USAF website. In the Table of Ranks... I could not find any such rank. Could you please provide me with more information.

Cadet Third Class, United States Air Force

I just came from the USAF website. In the Table of Ranks... I could not find any such rank. Could you please provide me with more information.

I think that means he's enrolled in a USAF Academy.....

I dunno.

Cadets aren't in the Air Force yet, they're in training.

I admit I haven't read up too much on this, but surely terming someone an 'ignorant savage' isn't severe enough a flame to warrant a warning?

I admit I haven't read up too much on this, but surely terming someone an 'ignorant savage' isn't severe enough a flame to warrant a warning?

Read the thread. You'll understand why "ignorant savage" was deemed flamebait as the whole response was an attack,

Scolopendra, still waiting for an answer. Could there be a reason for your reluctance to reply? Could you have been claiming something that you are not entitled to?

Scolopendra, still waiting for an answer. Could there be a reason for your reluctance to reply? Could you have been claiming something that you are not entitled to?

Or perhaps he's been sleeping and has class. Scolopendra and Karmabaijan are both Cadets in the United States Air Force Reserve Officer Training Corps (AFROTC).

So, now the question becomes: "Who the hell are you to come into this thread, given it's discussion on honor amongst those of us in the armed forces, and accuse Scolopendra and Karmabaijan of being dishonorable simply because your search of the net left you misinformed and then attempt to use their time zone differences to lend credence to your accusations?"

An ex-Marine and a disabled vet who is offended by people making claims... for something they are not entitled to. As there is a 1-hr difference between Texas and Colorado... the time-zone thingie does not fly.

So, you dont allow for the Moderators of this site to have a life outside of this board? And your question(s) are more important than their lives?

The Air Force seems to give you plenty of time to attend to your mod duites... on government time. Why should I assume it is different for other mods?

Each time a mod replies, they prove my point... thanks.

Attitudes like yours will ensure that NS2 is not a financial success.

A military academy is pretty much an all day thing, is it not? (correct me if I'm wrong) Give 'em time, give 'em time. Maybe their computer crashed or they fell asleep or they had to run one hundred laps around the perimeter of the US. =)

-scuttles out of the thread-

The Air Force seems to give you plenty of time to attend to your mod duites... on government time. Why should I assume it is different for other mods?

Each time a mod replies, they prove my point... thanks.

Attitudes like yours will ensure that NS2 is not a financial success.

Yes, you remember how unsuccessful NS is every time you can't get on the forums, because there are too many connections..lol doh!

The Air Force seems to give you plenty of time to attend to your mod duites... on government time. Why should I assume it is different for other mods?

Each time a mod replies, they prove my point... thanks.

Attitudes like yours will ensure that NS2 is not a financial success.

Um, actually, I work Mid-Shift. Meaning, I'm home all day. Whereas ROTC for ANY branch (including the few Marines intelligent enough to qualify...) is in addition to regular college schedule.

People will put up with a lot more for a freebie... than something they pay money on. Would you shop at a store that allowed customers or staff to be insulting or demeaning? I suspect that you would spend your money elsewhere.

If NS2 is to be a paying concern... it must be ran as a business. This is the time that mods should start developing the professional skills and attitudes that such a change will require. All players should be treated equally... even if they are bugging the hell out of you. A mod should NEVER be snippy or terse with a player... no matter what.

including the few Marines intelligent enough to qualify...

Thanks for proving my point again. Remarks like this is what will kill NS as a paid game. I could have said something about Air Beagles, but I refrained for doing so... I guess I no longer need to do so.

You know how to get a Purple Hart in the Air Force... get a paper-cut.

People will put up with a lot more for a freebie... than something they pay money on. Would you shop at a store that allowed customers or staff to be insulting or demeaning? I suspect that you would spend your money elsewhere.

If NS2 is to be a paying concern... it must be ran as a business. This is the time that mods should start developing the professional skills and attitudes that such a change will require. All players should be treated equally... even if they are bugging the hell out of you. A mod should NEVER be snippy or terse with a player... no matter what.

Ok, so now not only are you an ex-Marine, but you're also a economic specialist on NS2's potential financial success. As well as a Psychologist who has his hand on the heartbeat of what people will and will not pay for. I am truly impressed with all of your credentials.

Let's put it this way.. I'll try to spell it out as simply as possible for you. If 10% of NS players pay for NS2 it will be a financial success. Since over 75% of the people who play NS never even come in contact with moderators, either because they play by the rules or they have no desire to butt into things that don't concern them such as this thread didn't concern you. I do imagine NS2 will be a huge success. So there goes your theory!... but you believe what you like. Your credibility in my books is already shot given I know for a fact that Neut, Scolo and Karma are exactly what they say they are. Therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that you're the one who is not. Simple common sense.

Yes Stephistan, I will laugh each month as I deposit my VA compensation check in the bank. Good ol' Neut's, Scolo's and Karma's taxes pay for me to point out the problems with moderation in NS... ain't life grand.

In case you did not know, ROTC means that Scolo and Karma are college students who MAY become officers... if the military wants or needs them. The decision is up to the USAF... many are not accepted.

Also, I must thank you for proving my point... another time.

Yes Stephistan, I will laugh each month as I deposit my VA compensation check in the bank. Good ol' Neut's, Scolo's and Karma's taxes pay for me to point out the problems with moderation in NS... ain't life grand.

In case you did not know, ROTC means that Scolo and Karma are college students who MAY become officers... if the military wants or needs them. The decision is up to the USAF... many are not accepted.

Also, I must thank you for proving my point... another time.

And... on a final note.. we shall close this discussion with you getting a warning from me. See, you have done nothing but flamebait in this thread. Not the players but the mods, you see you have to follow the same rules when dealing with moderators as you do when dealing with the players. In fact, some might say it's not very smart to flamebait the moderators, however I'll leave that up for you to decide.

Consider yourself warned. Knock it off!

Stephanie
Game Moderator

People will put up with a lot more for a freebie... than something they pay money on. Would you shop at a store that allowed customers or staff to be insulting or demeaning? I suspect that you would spend your money elsewhere.



'Customers or staff'........

If you ran a shop and there was a customer who was being rude to otehr customers and disrupting their shopping, what would YOU do??

Answer, get one of your staff to ask them to leave...

... maybe you should consider yourself a rude customer?

'Thank you for proving my point'.. :D

maybe you should consider yourself a rude customer?

That could be true, but check my posts. Let me know if you find one where I started the mud-slinging.

You have Hirota, who call's someone an idiot in many of his posts, but no mod has ever censured him. For rules to work, they must be applied equally to all members.

... and thank you for your post.

maybe you should consider yourself a rude customer?

That could be true, but check my posts. Let me know if you find one where I started the mud-slinging.

You have Hirota, who call's someone an idiot in many of his posts, but no mod has ever censured him. For rules to work, they must be applied equally to all members.

... and thank you for your post.

Whilst I accept that there are others who are also guilty of 'mudslinging', 'he did it first' is never a valid defence...

... and you're welcome.

I almost never directly call someone an insulting term, but I do speak out about the people who do so.

My style is more...

Player A: You're an idiot

Me: Those that resort to name-calling... should question who is the real idiot.

See the difference :wink:

I do not like to personally attack people and I resent those that do so... on a regular basis.

I thank you for discussing this issue like an adult.

In addition to the warning posted by Stephistan, I'd like to add some elaboration:

Laio, let's review the post history, here.

This all started when you asked:

Cadet Third Class, United States Air Force

I just came from the USAF website. In the Table of Ranks... I could not find any such rank. Could you please provide me with more information.

[1:49 AM CST / 12:49 AM Mountain]

A resonable question. All that was needed then was wait for a response. It would have been nice if you had provided a URL to the table of ranks itself, rather than just vaguely refer to the USAF website (http://www.af.mil), but neglecting to provide a link is in and of itself not and offense and is perfectly excusable.

You got two responses:
I think that means he's enrolled in a USAF Academy.....

I dunno.

[1:51 AM CST / 12:51 AM Mountain]
Cadets aren't in the Air Force yet, they're in training.

[1:56 AM CST / 12:56 AM Mountain]

So, a suggestion was put forth that trainee ranks might not be listed in the table of ranks that you found.

Now, these two didn't explicitly claim to be familiar with with the military and didn't cite sources, either. So, you could have said that you were suspicious of the accuracy of their suppositions and that you'd prefer an answer from Scolo, directly. Or, you could have ignored them and not posted at all until Scolo did reply. You chose the latter option, you refrained from posting, up until you bumped the topic by posting this:

Scolopendra, still waiting for an answer. Could there be a reason for your reluctance to reply? Could you have been claiming something that you are not entitled to?

[9:35 AM CST / 8:35 AM Mountain]

Here's where you started to go wrong.

Here, you put forward the suggestion that Scolopendra was lying about being in the Air Force. Furthermore, you base this merely on the observation that Scolopendra hadn't posted a reply in the 8 hours that your post had been up. While there's no set or written rule about how long you wait before bumping a topic, my official opinion as a NationStates Moderator is that it's perfectly reasonable to bump a topic after 24 hours, with lesser periods of time progressively becoming less reasonable.

Now, it is reasonable to have doubts about the truthfulness of someone's claims of their real-life profession and I can understand someone feeling offended at someone else claiming to be in the military when they're really not (though you did not explain your motivations until a later post). Nevertheless, making accusations (or implied accusations) without evidence is unacceptable. I again refer to the NationStates.net Terms and Conditions (http://www.nationstates.net/pages/legal.html): This falls under "defamatory". "Malicious" may also apply, given that you seemed to imply that Scolo was acting like a coward for hiding from what you think is the truth, though this interpretation may have less to do with your wording of the questions and more with my reading of them.

Or perhaps he's been sleeping and has class. Scolopendra and Karmabaijan are both Cadets in the United States Air Force Reserve Officer Training Corps (AFROTC).

Here, Neutered Sputniks gives a plausible explanation for Scolopendras' inability to reply, and explanation much clearer than those put forth by "BackwoodsSquatches" and "Roania". Neut claims specific knowledge about Scolo's real-life arrangements. This is a reasonable claim, as both Neut and Scolo are both NationStates Moderators and, as such, it would be reasonable to suppose that they have chatted with each other over the Internet on many, many occasions.

Now, while the veracity of Scolo's claims of being in the military could still be doubted, you still have no evidence with which to make an accusation.

An ex-Marine and a disabled vet who is offended by people making claims... for something they are not entitled to.

Well, we now know what's got you so upset. Nevertheless, the way in which you approached this was completely inappropriate.

As there is a 1-hr difference between Texas and Colorado... the time-zone thingie does not fly.

On the contrary, the time-zone thingie does fly.

You remember that 8-hour period between your two posts? [1:49 AM CST / 12:49 AM Mountain] to [9:35 AM CST / 8:35 AM Mountain]. That's from the middle of the night to a couple of hours after dawn in both timezones. It is perfectly reasonable to expect that Scolopendra had gone to sleep, woken up, and then went to class without accessing NationStates.net (with this expectation being based upon Neut's AFROTC explanation).

The Air Force seems to give you plenty of time to attend to your mod duites... on government time. Why should I assume it is different for other mods?

You should assume that it's different because different people have different schedules, different circumstances, and different responsibilities.

Each time a mod replies, they prove my point... thanks.

I assume that you refer to your point that Scolo had the opportunity to answer your accusations. If so, then I refute this with my earlier explanations, above, regarding the times-of-posts and the fact that different mods have different schedules.

Attitudes like yours will ensure that NS2 is not a financial success.

First, you're not clear about what "attitudes" you're referring to, here, or how they relate to the financial success of NationStates 2. Second, you seem to be referring to the attitudes of Moderators and how they have treated you. In which case, I hereby inform you that if you have a complaint regarding how the Moderators have treated you, then you can send your complaint to admin@nationstates.net with a URL to this topic and a detailed explanation of why you're complaining. Only Max Barry, the creator of NationStates.net, and [violet], the chief NationStates Administrator, read that E-mail account; [violet] answers only to Max Barry.

Um, actually, I work Mid-Shift. Meaning, I'm home all day. Whereas ROTC for ANY branch (including the few Marines intelligent enough to qualify...) is in addition to regular college schedule.

Here, Neutered Sputniks gives you an even clearer and more detailed explanation for Scolo's inability to reply as well as elaborating upon the schedule differences between himself and Scolo.

People will put up with a lot more for a freebie... than something they pay money on. Would you shop at a store that allowed customers or staff to be insulting or demeaning? I suspect that you would spend your money elsewhere.

Let's take that analogy a step further. If a customer (and I have you in mind, here) started being insulting and demeaning to staff and other customers, the store owner would likely throw that customer out of the store (or, at least, threatean to do so).

If NS2 is to be a paying concern... it must be ran as a business. This is the time that mods should start developing the professional skills and attitudes that such a change will require. All players should be treated equally... even if they are bugging the hell out of you. A mod should NEVER be snippy or terse with a player... no matter what.

In an ideal world, that would be true. Theoretically, that would be the case. Then again, in an ideal world, this would also apply to players: players should NEVER be snippy or terse with another player... no matter what. (Again, I have you in mind, here.) If players step out-of-line, it can be reported to Moderators for possible action. If Moderators step out-of-line, it can be reported to admin@nationstates.net for possible action by Administrators.

Thanks for proving my point again. Remarks like this is what will kill NS as a paid game.

I disagree. Keep in mind that you provoked this situation. Rude treatment of a player who has not done anything wrong would definitely be a problem. Rude treatment of a player who provoked such treatment would be a concern, but not a major concern.

Again, I refer you to admin@nationstates.net if you want to file a complaint about Moderators.

I could have said something about Air Beagles, but I refrained for doing so... I guess I no longer need to do so.

You know how to get a Purple Hart in the Air Force... get a paper-cut.

...and I think Steph has already issued you a warning for this. I believe that this falls under "malicious" in the Terms and Conditions (http://www.nationstates.net/pages/legal.html).

In case you did not know, ROTC means that Scolo and Karma are college students who MAY become officers... if the military wants or needs them. The decision is up to the USAF... many are not accepted.

...and this is what you're complaining about? You're saying that being in the ROTC does not entitle one to say that they're in the military? This seems such a small distinction to be throwing about such defamatory comments.

That could be true, but check my posts. Let me know if you find one where I started the mud-slinging.

I refer you, again, to this post:

[quote=Laio]Scolopendra, still waiting for an answer. Could there be a reason for your reluctance to reply? Could you have been claiming something that you are not entitled to?

...

You have Hirota, who call's someone an idiot in many of his posts, but no mod has ever censured him. For rules to work, they must be applied equally to all members.

NationStates.net is a big place. We Moderators can't be everywhere at once. If you see someone breaking the rules, then report them.

In short: Don't accuse someone without evidence, don't be so impatient with people who don't post soon enough to suit you, and don't post insulting comments.

"Think about it for a moment."

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

I guess Neut and I are both guilty... my comment was made after this post:

(including the few Marines intelligent enough to qualify...)

I feel sure that you will take the right corrective steps. Which is worse, a player breaking a rule or a mod?


Laio wrote: Each time a mod replies, they prove my point... thanks.

No, I was referring to how two mods made defamatory and possibly malicious comments... in this thread.

I guess Neut and I are both guilty... my comment was made after this post:

(including the few Marines intelligent enough to qualify...)

I feel sure that you will take the right corrective steps. Which is worse, a player breaking a rule or a mod?


Laio wrote: Each time a mod replies, they prove my point... thanks.

No, I was referring to how two mods made defamatory and possibly malicious comments... in this thread.

Listen, you're not doing yourself any favours here.. why don't you just let it go and move on. Neut made no mistake. You did. I'm not even sure why you felt the need to respond to this thread. It had nothing to do with you. You do know how to spoil the soup? To many cooks. Let's just chalk it up to experience and let it go. That would be my advice to you. However, you wouldn't be the first one to find out the hard way that it would of been best to just move on.

Oh, when Cogitation posted a reply... I thought that I would do the polite thing and respond to him. I guess other people operate by different standards.

I guess Neut and I are both guilty... my comment was made after this post:

(including the few Marines intelligent enough to qualify...)

I feel sure that you will take the right corrective steps. Which is worse, a player breaking a rule or a mod?

Moderator conduct is discussed among the Moderators and with Admin. I again remind you that you provoked the situation yourself.

Laio wrote: Each time a mod replies, they prove my point... thanks.

No, I was referring to how two mods made defamatory and possibly malicious comments... in this thread.

Again, this was in response to your provocation.

As for Stephistan's most recent comments.... She's referring to how you insist on discussing Moderator conduct (or misconduct) when you were the one who provoked it. It doesn't look good for you to continue pressing this matter as though you weren't the one at fault.

Oh, when Cogitation posted a reply... I thought that I would do the polite thing and respond to him. I guess other people operate by different standards.

I note that you weren't polite, yourself, when you questioned Scolo's integrity, earlier.

I doubt Scolo's even seen the most recent posts, yet.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

*sighs*

Integrity First. I am not going to accuse anyone else of lying, because without evidence to that effect it is simply additional mudslinging. I know, however, that what few statements I have said have been completely truthful, and so I'm living up to my Core Values.

Even if we cadets live outside the command structure as trainees (glorified Airmen Basic, if you would), we are constantly reminded of the professionalism and dedication required to the profession of arms. We may not have to put lives on the line now, but we are constantly reminded that if the military "wants or needs" us then lives, both foreign and domestic, will lie on our decisions. By being members of the profession of arms, even if only by serving it by ensuring its continuation as cadets, we directly associate ourselves with the military's primary function of hurting people and breaking things for geopolitical goals. The moment we put on that uniform, in the eyes of the rest of the populace, we are military and we had better act like it.

I do my best to do so. I may not always be successful, but I do try.

Being in the military gives one no special right to "fight tyranny" on a free online game, especially when such "tyranny" is brought about by one's own actions. It gives one no special right to say or do things that would be unexpected from any other user. If anything, self-association with the military brings with it the responsibility to act better than expected from other users, because that is what people expect and wish to see in a military member. We are held to a higher standard, and it is up to us to live up to it.

There, that's the response that seems to have been desired for so long. I said my piece on this thread and believed myself done with it; unfortunately, apparently I was wrong. I'm not even sure why I am responding; I have no need to defend myself against the spiteful, unfounded claims of others. Call me a liar; those are naught but words for I am no liar.

Cadets aren't in the Air Force yet, they're in training.
*looks at enlisted rank*
Odd, as a contracted cadet I fall under the enlisted rank of Airman.

Scolopendra, still waiting for an answer. Could there be a reason for your reluctance to reply? Could you have been claiming something that you are not entitled to?
Depends on if the cadet is contracted or not. Contracted cadets are given enlisted rank. Airmen to be precise. Almost bottom rung yes, but part of the US armed forces none the less.

It is also worth pointing out that if said contracted cadet were to fail college/ROTC, chances are they will serve as enlisted, after being sent down to basic of course.


Of course these are merely the observations of a humble cadet, no where near the distinction of those who have sacrificed for this country before I. (altough I do work with those who have seen combat)
However, I do not think it right for someone, no matter the prior experience, to belittle another for still being only a cadet. You have to start somewhere.

Cadets aren't in the Air Force yet, they're in training.
*looks at enlisted rank*
Odd, as a contracted cadet I fall under the enlisted rank of Airman.

Berserker, thank you for that. :? Sarcasm doesn't suit you. I'm going into the Army ROTC myself, so I may not know all about the Air Force.

Can a mod summarise this for me so I can add something about this to the Big List?

I'm thinking:

16. The mods are always right.

or

16. Once a single mod answers your question, leave it at that.

Or maybe both... any ideas?

How about:

16. Dont expect the Mods to be on YOUR time schedule.

17. Dont push your luck. Just because you're the consumer does not mean you can be as big a jerk as you'd like and not be told by management to leave.

Thanks, NS.

Just out of curiousity, where are you based? My cousin's in the USAF, trained at that base in Boulder.