NationStates Jolt Archive

I am here to protest what I believe was an unnecessarily harsh moderation. My nation was deleted for greifing. To begin, yes- I (and a whopping TWO other people) was attempting to crash the region, I am not denying that. Whether I was griefing is debatable, as we alerted the delegate of the region beforehand (he responded and acknowledged) and we even promised to leave the next day. We did not put a password on the region. The region only contained 3 people and nothing had been posted on the message center for 38 days. Also, I was not even aware of what defined greifing and crashing until I checked the forums. Maybe in the FAQ Max could add a link to the “avoid greifing” thread so others do not receive my fate.

But we are not debating greifing and crashing here. I was involved yes- the reason I am here is to protest the deletion of Steve P, my nation for a very long time. This was my first offense for ANYTHING on the entire site of nationstates. I have never had more than one UN member; I have never even tried to crash anyone prior to this incident. I get smacked in the face with instant deletion of my core nation- If I file a request to have it restored will I have any basis? Will there be any chance of my nation being resurrected? I sincerely regret being involved in the region crash, and will not do it again. I simply feel that other nations get second chances or lesser punishments than me and I plead to you to resurrect my nation.


Thanks a lot

I sincerely regret being involved in the region crash, and will not do it again.

First Crashing is not illegal if you follow the rules



If I file a request to have it restored will I have any basis? Will there be any chance of my nation being resurrected?

Second Good Luck buddy

I'm with Cursing George on this one. Aside from the fact that the region had had no activitiy for over a month, this is his and his friends' first offense on anything on this site. This is like capital punishment for a kid who's never done anything wrong before stealing a CD. I think they've learned their lesson. I urge reinstatement.

I'm with Cursing George on this one. Aside from the fact that the region had had no activitiy for over a month, this is his and his friends' first offense on anything on this site. This is like capital punishment for a kid who's never done anything wrong before stealing a CD. I think they've learned their lesson. I urge reinstatement.

Like i said good luck cause the mods rarely if ever resurrect a nation that they deleted

Good Luck!

For the record, I am the Moderator who handled this case.

Resurrection request denied. The punishment for griefing a reigon is deletion.

From the FAQ (http://www.nationstates.net/pages/faq.html), Section 6, Etiquette:

Once I've taken over a region, can I eject everyone else?

No. Region crashing by itself is a legitimate tactic to seize power, but ejecting large numbers of nations is griefing. It can be a fine line between region crashing and griefing. Players who enjoy launching invasions should take care to stay on the right side.

This is precisely what you did. You didn't need to read the forums to know that this was illegal.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

Resurrection request denied. The punishment for griefing a reigon is deletion.

I wouldn't know, but don't you have to confer with some other mods? Or did you on the mythical mod forum? Either way, this is definitely not a simple grieving case; there are many different factors in this problem. I at least ask for reflection on this instead of a hasty, permanent no.

mass-ejection is the one griefing rule he did not mention. Perhaps it is from ignorance of the rule, but since he admitted to having read the "How to Avoid Griefing" thread, I doubt it. In light of Cogitation's denial, I think it's obvious he didn't mention it because he couldn't claim innocence of it.

He did wrong, and he knows it. I don't see where any outside review is necessary. Cogitation's decision seems to me to be accurate and just. Then again, I'm not a mod. Just an observer making a point.

It is ultimately up to the mod who made the initial call on issues like these. We can and do confer about issues from time to time, but where appeals are made then it's up to the mod who was responsible to make the call.

If mass ejection is an illegal action then wouldn't nations who are delegates of game created regions, such as the North and South Pacific, be deleted for the same offense? I know of at least two times when, after siezing power, delegates would immediately eject all nations which opposed them, which in turn led to the delegate eventually ejecting almost 150 nations within a week. (I'm refering to the Pacific regions)

Whether or not this is griefing I'm not sure but it sure seems close to me.

I believe the very approximate realm of what is considered "griefing" by the Mods is around ~30-40% of a region's inhabitants.

For The Pacifics, 150 of however many thousand they have doesn't scratch the surface.

Delegates are allowed ejection powers for a reason. That reason is not so that they can kick anyone out of the region they want to. Only a founder has that kind of right in a region. However, if there were no circumstances in which ejections by a delegate were legal, then the delegates wouldn't have the power to eject.

That said, delegates (invader or otherwise) are allowed to boot other nations for strategic reasons ... a fairly subjective term I grant, but things like "collecting endorsements to seize the delegacy" fall under it and things like "being in the region" do not. I'm pretty sure native delegates are allowed a bit more leniancy when it comes to what a strategic reason can be, but they still aren't allowed to boot anyone they want. What you describe in the pacifics is a new delegate consolidating their power after taking over, a very good strategic reason to boot other players.

mass-ejection is the one griefing rule he did not mention. Perhaps it is from ignorance of the rule, but since he admitted to having read the "How to Avoid Griefing" thread, I doubt it. In light of Cogitation's denial, I think it's obvious he didn't mention it because he couldn't claim innocence of it.

He did wrong, and he knows it. I don't see where any outside review is necessary. Cogitation's decision seems to me to be accurate and just. Then again, I'm not a mod. Just an observer making a point.

I read the how to avoid griefing thread but only after my nation was deleted. I think the FAQ should have a link to it

I think the link in the FAQ wouldnt have helped your case.

While it might be a good idea, the rules found in the thread are also in the FAQ, just not discussed.

I believe the very approximate realm of what is considered "griefing" by the Mods is around ~30-40% of a region's inhabitants.

For The Pacifics, 150 of however many thousand they have doesn't scratch the surface.
It is 40%, last time I checked. In a region of three, it is risky to kick out even one person.

I believe the very approximate realm of what is considered "griefing" by the Mods is around ~30-40% of a region's inhabitants.

For The Pacifics, 150 of however many thousand they have doesn't scratch the surface.
It is 40%, last time I checked. In a region of three, it is risky to kick out even one person.

OK...THERE IS NO SET PERCENTAGE

mass-ejection is the one griefing rule he did not mention. Perhaps it is from ignorance of the rule, but since he admitted to having read the "How to Avoid Griefing" thread, I doubt it. In light of Cogitation's denial, I think it's obvious he didn't mention it because he couldn't claim innocence of it.

He did wrong, and he knows it. I don't see where any outside review is necessary. Cogitation's decision seems to me to be accurate and just. Then again, I'm not a mod. Just an observer making a point.

I did not "mass eject" ANYONE. I was not the person doing the booting- besides, he booted 3 (!) people. how does this constitute mass ejection? I didnt mention it because it was so insignificant I did not think i worthy of mention. But since you feel the need- I will mention it. Yup, we booted 3 people. There ya go. Not claiming any innocence with that.

My main complaint was that this was my first offense, please- cant you restore Steve P? :lol: come on Cogitation. :cry:

The region only contained 3 people...

+

Yup, we booted 3 people.

=

100% of natives ejected.

=

Clear-cut griefing invasion. Q.E.D.

The region only contained 3 people...

+

Yup, we booted 3 people.

=

100% of natives ejected.

=

Clear-cut griefing invasion. Q.E.D.

Sounds like you got caught so you better just drop itthe subject now cause anything you say now could really hurt you

Just some friendly advice