NationStates Jolt Archive

If a native is ejected from a region because he has received endorsements to become the UN delegate is the native supposed to be removed from the banlist and supplied with the password?

Parts (current UN delegate) ejected DaRight WingConspiracy (native) because he claimed he had received intelligence of a hostile takeover. Since DaRight WingConspiracy was a native and was receiving endorsements to replace Parts as the delegate, that does not constitute a hostile takeover does it?

The region in question is Capitalism.

Thanks,

Evie

If he's a native, he needs to be removed from the ban list and given the password, yes.

Thank you. I will take your answer back to the regional board.

Re-reading...

Actually, you need to clarify if Parts is a native or not as well. If Parts is a native, then DaRight WingConspiracy can stay on the ban list. My previous post was assuming Parts was an invader Delegate.

Sorry for any potential confusion.

Parts isn't a native and isn't an invader either (that I know of, he might be a stealthy type though). DaRight at one time was the delegate for the region but had no problems when Parts became the delegate. I know that Parts was not in the region 43 days ago and I have a telegram from DaRight from 43 days ago when we had been discussing the founder expiring due to inactivity.

I have a puppet nation that I parked in the region and several of us noticed Parts was having a difficult time in grasping the capitalistic concept of how to vote on UN proposals. I moved my UN member nation to Capitalism to endorse DaRight where he could retake the delegacy.

/\ My puppet nation...I had too many windows open at the same time. Sorry about that!

When did Parts move into the region. Just because he's newer to the region, doesn't necessarily make him an invader.

If a native is ejected from a region because he has received endorsements to become the UN delegate is the native supposed to be removed from the banlist and supplied with the password?



I was just going to ask this question :D

When did Parts move into the region. Just because he's newer to the region, doesn't necessarily make him an invader.

I don't know since I just moved to the region and didn't watch it on a daily basis. I'm 99.9% sure he wasn't in the region 43 days ago when DaRight Wing Conspiracy and I were TM'ing about Moooooo (founder) going poof due to inactivity. DaRight Wing was remarking about the region shrinking and that he might move to the region I was in (Alliance of Freepers).

The reason I asked my question was because I don't know if Parts could be considered an invader per se since I don't know when he showed up in Capitalism. DaRight might remember when Parts appeared.

DaRight had endorsed Parts as the delegate so I don't think there was an issue about Parts being an invader. The question is; Parts ejected DaRight
because DaRight was receiving endorsements for delegacy, DaRight is a native, Parts ejected DaRight based on Parts considering it a hostile takeover and I can't find information about whether a delegate can eject a native and not give the PW or remove from the banlist. (How's that for a run-on sentence?)

Well, there's the rub. It's sounding like Parts would be classified as a native. With just a cursory glance, it appears that he simply moved in as an individual.

Sure it's mean, but it doesn't appear to be illegal. I'll look into it deeper later, I'm off for bed now.

I thought natives were those who were originally in the region and not nations that showed up later. Does that mean I could join any region, hang out for several weeks/months and be considered a native? I've never seen exactly this particular scenario addressed before. :?

I've TM'd DaRight so hopefully when he signs-on he'll be able to add more information.

I'll be hanging out for awhile since I've stayed up all night doing some spring cleaning.

Evie

Well, there's the rub. It's sounding like Parts would be classified as a native. With just a cursory glance, it appears that he simply moved in as an individual.

Sure it's mean, but it doesn't appear to be illegal. I'll look into it deeper later, I'm off for bed now.
And this raises my question or two on something that I have been wondering for a while.

If a nation moves into a region endorsement-swaps in order to become delegate within a day, and then procedes to ban all UN nations before leaving is it a griefing?

What about all nations period?

I am suprised by the actions of Parts. DaRight WingConspiracy is a founding member of Capitalism along with Moooooo who ceased to exist some weeks ago. We did nothing to deserve being ejected from the region and all the Mod need do is to look at the history of the region and hey will see what has happened.

Our ejection from Capitalism is nonsense...pure and simple. I would be happy to address any specific quesitons.

How can DaRight WingConspiracy be plotting a hostle takeover of the region when we help start the region???

DaRight WingConspiracy wrote the Factbook entry that is listed for the region and has been for many months!

Well, there's the rub. It's sounding like Parts would be classified as a native. With just a cursory glance, it appears that he simply moved in as an individual.

Sure it's mean, but it doesn't appear to be illegal. I'll look into it deeper later, I'm off for bed now.
And this raises my question or two on something that I have been wondering for a while.

If a nation moves into a region endorsement-swaps in order to become delegate within a day, and then procedes to ban all UN nations before leaving is it a griefing?

What about all nations period?

Well, yeah, that probably would be. However, this appears to be someone managing to become Delegate and ejecting a rival, which while mean, isn't necessarily griefing. Seems the residents could easily pull their support for Parts.

DaRight WingConspiracy requests that the Moderator remove us from the banned list and further requests that we be named founder in place of Mooooo. Again history will illustrate that DaRight WingConspiracy started the region with Mooooo.

We appreciate your consideration and look forward to your response.

DaRight WingConspiracy requests that the Moderator remove us from the banned list and further requests that we be named founder in place of Mooooo. Again history will illustrate that DaRight WingConspiracy started the region with Mooooo.

We appreciate your consideration and look forward to your response.

I'm looking into the ejection.

Foundership will not be transfered, however.

Well, yeah, that probably would be. However, this appears to be someone managing to become Delegate and ejecting a rival, which while mean, isn't necessarily griefing. Seems the residents could easily pull their support for Parts.
Actually I was wondering as there is a nation in my region (inactive for 58 days now) who endorsement-swapped int power in a new region know as the Federation of Earth, evicted all but one nation (on the grounds that either they did not have high enough PF or CR{as with the founder}, or that they were a UN member who had withdrawn support after the first wave {which I know was not the case, as a least one nation, Stella Amore had both the region's reguired CF and FPR rankings and was not a UN member}) and tried to do the same in my region.

I allowed them to stay as I assumed that they would be deleted soon anywhen and yet they never were (After they snatched the delegacy from me, I continued to allow them to stay lest I appear a sore loser).

Naturally, I was therefore wondering if what would normally be griefing would be permissable if achieved through a lightening endorsement swapping.

I also would like to know what the definition of a native is. If there was a stealth invader who hung out in a region for several weeks/months, assumed the delegacy, would anyone who was there prior to the arrival of the 'stealth invader' be considered a native?

While I'm asking questions, if there is suspicion there is a UN multi in a region what should one do? Ignore it, report it and if so, where would one report it?

Thanks!

Evie

An invader is someone who comes into the region with the intent of taking it over, and is propped up by other invaders endorsements... if a nation comes into the region and gets native support to become delegate, I do not think they have ever been ruled as an invader.

Suspected UN multis should be reported via the Getting Help Page (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) under 'cheating'.

Still doesn't answer my question about what a native is. Since the stealth invader could conceivably become delegate without being endorsed by a native (someone who has been a part of the region since the regions inception or what?). Unless native is defined as someone who was in the region prior to the stealth invader coming to the region.

I know what an invader is so that's not the issue. Invaders come in all shapes and sizes. They can come in and bide their time, have other UN member nations transfer into the region and garner support to become delegate or they can come in with support from other newly transferred in UN member nations in a more immediate fashion.

I'm not a mod, so I should probably stop posting here, but...

Your "stealth invader" becoming delegate without native support means what exactly? Either he endorsement trades his way to the top (thereby having native support), or comes in with a bunch of friends and takes the spot (thereby having invader support).

In your particular case, it really sounds like what TMGH was saying: mean, but not griefing. Or illegal.

Here's a pretend scenario.

I transfer my UN member nation to XYZ region. I keep a low profile for 30-60 days. Other UN member nations enter the region (at my request since I've put the word out there's an invasion in progress) over the course of several weeks.

I occasionally post on the regional board about various things where people get to know me. Eventually I receive endorsements (from those other transferring-in nations) and become a delegate. I even receive an endorsement from the former delegate who was a native from the time the region was founded. I eject the former delegate with the excuse of intercepted intelligence suggests a hostile take over of our region was in progress.

Now, what is a native? Is it someone who happened to be there before I arrived or is it someone who was there since the regions inception.

That is my only question. What is a native? Not what an invader is but what is a native?

Now would be the time for me to stop giving my interpretations of the NS rules and link (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=109397) you to old rulings from actual mods. (Scroll down a bit and you'll find a section on natives. I could give you my opinion on that scenario of yours but you'll probably want to wait for another mod to come along and post here.)

Thanks (I think) for the link. As I understand it now, a native is a person who declares an intent to reside in a region and really should be there prior to any invader (whether stealth or not) arriving in the region. Also, all natives (ejected or not...well, unless they were ejected for illegal behaviour, must be given the password and if they have been ejected must be taken off the regional banlist), right?

I hope my understanding is correct. I also wish Mr/Ms (I forgot the full name) Glorious Wonderful Hack would respond since they stated they were going to look into the real scenario. Even though the original situation has been resolved I'd like to hear the response where I can understand better how to play the game legally.

Evie

Lemmie double check. I'm so used to dealing with griefing invaders, I'm drawing a blank on native-on-native aggression.

Hack,
We appreciate your help...unfortunately I must ask for more assistance. Parts and Pinetops were booted from the UN for rule violations...they claim there is no violation and my beef is not with them and I know they have appealed their removal from the UN. Mayhem took over as delegate despite our both have the same number of endorsements. DaRight WingConspiracy has been in Capitalism for some time and Mayhem came in the last day or two. Mayhem has now password protected the region and is recruiting members from the Area 13 (follow the trail back to them) to take over Capitalism…they mention war on their regional board. Certainly Mayhem cannot be considered Native. We are fine with native nations “competing” for the delegate slot but not this “war” nonsense. Currently we each have 4 endorsements but I am certain Mayhem is recruiting additional members and only Mayhem has the password.

Your assistance and guidance is appreciated.
My Best,

Mr. Glorious Hack,

Our region has been invaded and a new delegate was elected. The new delegate is one of the invaders and he has password-protected the region.

The problem is none of the native nations have recieved the password. My puppet nation hasn't received the password yet and neither have I.
Since there is already a thread here should I report this here in the thread or should I also use the getting help page?


Since it's been 3 hours since the region was password protected with no password to the natives, is this considered griefing? Even though no nations have been ejected yet?

Sorry to be a pest!

Thanks for all of your help! (Don't forget, you were going to check on and post on the prior question.)

Evie

Edit: number of hours should be 3 instead of 2

I am a native of Capitalism and have been there since I was born. I also am the puppet of EvieIsle.

I have not received the password to be able to come and go in our region. I signed on as myself to make sure I hadn't received a telegram from Capitalist Mayhem.

Now what should we do?

Sincerely,

TBSS

Non Gender Descript Greeting to Glorious Hack,

No password has been sent to DaRight WingConspiracy either. We appreciate your time and look forward to resolution of the issue at hand.

Sincerely,

Proud Members of DaRight WingConspiracy

P.S. We understand the hesitation in naming a "new founder" but again would request that consideration be given to DaRight WingConspiracy. We formed the region with Moooooo and wrote the Factbook Entry. It would prevent the problem of region crashing in Capitialism and we would gladly ceed to Mooooo should he be brought back from the great beyond.

Again, our Thanks.

The region has been illegally invaded based on this prior post.


Max and [violet] have both spoken on the subject, and so long as an invasion does not do the following things, they are considered a legal form of play:

-Ejecting a large number of natives (judged on a case-by-case scenario- 40% is a good meterstick for measuring it though)
-Spam/flood the regional message board and regional happening
-Take over by use of UN Multies
-Interfere with the natives' ability to come and go from the region as they please. (This includes kicking people out and leaving them on the ban list, passwording the region without giving the password to the natives, and the like.)

It's unlikely that the Powers That Be will change their minds on this.

~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Game Mod


I and several other member nations are natives of Capitalism and we have not been allowed to come and go since the invading delegate has not shared the password with any natives.

DaRight is an original native back from the time when the region was established under Mooooo. He has been ejected from the region and has not been provided with the password nor taken off the ban list.

I am a native and I have not been provided with the password (I have not been ejected either)

We have asked for the password via TM and on the regional board with no success.