NationStates Jolt Archive

i have been advised by the mod "Stephistan" to post my issues with the mods here, so here it goes:

i was recently kicked out of the UN for having more than one nation in the UN. However, i do not have 2 nations registered on the nationstates website, let alone 2 nationstates in the UN. perhaps the fact that i am connect to the internet via my university's Local Area Network, as i live in on campus housing at my university.

in any case, i have now lost my delagate post, and alot of time spent approving and writing proposals is now lost. this is exteremly unfair to me, i have no idea how it happened.

my email is jdewolk@yahoo.com in case that is an easier way to contact me. please clear me of these charges and modify the program that unfairly kicked me from the UN.

would the mod that booted me please defend their actions, and talk to me? i am innocent and would love to have a dialog with the responisble party to establish my innocence.

thank youf ro your time

It is very unfair, and Max is very sorry. But there is no way to tell if you really do control two UN nations or not, since the mods can't look on the other side of the computer. We're still looking for ways to combat this...but until new ways are found...this is it. :(

perhaps the fact that i am connect to the internet via my university's Local Area Network, as i live in on campus housing at my university.

If this was the case, your IP should resolve to a .edu hostname.
Generally, the mods will check this, and if none of their other detection methods point to a UN multi, they won't perform a ban.
Remember, IP address is just one of their detection methods.

It is very unfair, and Max is very sorry. But there is no way to tell if you really do control two UN nations or not, since the mods can't look on the other side of the computer. We're still looking for ways to combat this...but until new ways are found...this is it. :(

Bas, I think we have talked about you representing us before, eh? In otherwords, don't answer a question that makes you sound like you are a representative of the site, please.

As for the other issue, give me a few and I will look into it.

As for the other issue, give me a few and I will look into it.

thank you very much for your time and your response.

are you perhaps the mod who booted me? and are you saying that the likleyhood is that my nation will most likley never be re-admitted to the UN or cleared of the charges? should i just start a new nation?

also, is there anything else i can do to help my cause? should i telegram you directly?

Beyond what you've already done, there's nothing else that you can or should do.

It is very unfair, and Max is very sorry. But there is no way to tell if you really do control two UN nations or not, since the mods can't look on the other side of the computer. We're still looking for ways to combat this...but until new ways are found...this is it. :(

Bas, I think we have talked about you representing us before, eh? In otherwords, don't answer a question that makes you sound like you are a representative of the site, please.

As for the other issue, give me a few and I will look into it.

I took extra care to make sure I didn't sound like a mod! :shock: How did that sound like I was speaking as such? :o I'm very sorry if I did, it was the opposite of my intent. :oops:

It is very unfair, and Max is very sorry. But there is no way to tell if you really do control two UN nations or not, since the mods can't look on the other side of the computer. We're still looking for ways to combat this...but until new ways are found...this is it. :(

Bas, I think we have talked about you representing us before, eh? In otherwords, don't answer a question that makes you sound like you are a representative of the site, please.

As for the other issue, give me a few and I will look into it.

I took extra care to make sure I didn't sound like a mod! :shock: How did that sound like I was speaking as such? :o I'm very sorry if I did, it was the opposite of my intent. :oops:

I think maybe it was making the statement that 'Max is sorry'... it kinda sounded like you spoke to him directly about the matter!! :lol:

The reason you were booted from the UN was because a proposal sweep found you had submitted two unacceptable proposals [I think they were repeals or game mechanics proposals]; examining your nation showed a previous warning, making three, which warranted an ejection.

I sent a telegram to this effect at the time, though you may not have got it.

Yeah, it seems as though a few of the mod-sent telegrams aren't getting through. Either that or the ones I send are being wilfully ignored by their recipients... :wink:

Bas, I think we have talked about you representing us before, eh? In otherwords, don't answer a question that makes you sound like you are a representative of the site, please.

As for the other issue, give me a few and I will look into it.

I took extra care to make sure I didn't sound like a mod! :shock: How did that sound like I was speaking as such? :o I'm very sorry if I did, it was the opposite of my intent. :oops:

I think maybe it was making the statement that 'Max is sorry'... it kinda sounded like you spoke to him directly about the matter!! :lol:

Correct. Also....

/me points to the following:

It is very unfair, and Max is very sorry. But there is no way to tell if you really do control two UN nations or not, since the mods can't look on the other side of the computer. We're still looking for ways to combat this...but until new ways are found...this is it. :(

A note to all ordinary players: Do not speak of the moderation staff in the first-person perspective (saying "we" or "I"). Doing so implies that you are a Moderator, which you are not. Use the third-person perspective instead ("he", "she", or "they").

Thank you.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

Yeah, it seems as though a few of the mod-sent telegrams aren't getting through. Either that or the ones I send are being wilfully ignored by their recipients... :wink:

You mean to tell me that players actually ignore the mods? :shock:

Yeah, it seems as though a few of the mod-sent telegrams aren't getting through. Either that or the ones I send are being wilfully ignored by their recipients... :wink:

You mean to tell me that players actually ignore the mods? :shock:

There are players who do ignore the Moderators.

...of course, this is typically followed by the NationStates server ignoring their attempts to log in. :wink:

--The Jovial Democratic States of Cogitation
"Laugh about it for a moment."
NationStates Self-Proclaimed Court Jester

The reason you were booted from the UN was because a proposal sweep found you had submitted two unacceptable proposals [I think they were repeals or game mechanics proposals]; examining your nation showed a previous warning, making three, which warranted an ejection.

I sent a telegram to this effect at the time, though you may not have got it.

i recieved a telegram from modrators stating that i was kicked from the UN but for no specific reason. however, i did recieve and do acknowledge the warnings i got about UN proposals that repeal other passed UN proposals. I did not violate this rule again after i recieved the warning, however i did re-word the proposal to have a similar effect, thinking it did not violate the rules. here is the proposal:

"Resolved, that the resolution "Legalise prostitution" become a suggestion to UN members, not a mandate.

"The legalization of prostitution should be an independent decision for every country to make. Respect national sovereignty!"

I did not think this proposal violated the rules; clearly i was wrong. The real-life UN's proposals are all suggestions to the member countires, so i thought that trying to make a passed resolution more "realisitic," (while at the same time furthering my own goals) would not apply under the warning i had recieved, and incur the wrath of the mods.

is the UN ban still permanant? is there anything i can do to help my standing? clearly i have learned a lesson here and that is: dont try to be sneaky because the rules are not law, and may be interperted by the mods beyond their wording.

once again, i am sorry for my actions. i dont mean to be a pain. this game involves a learning curve, and i just moved up.

sincerely,

deelishopia

i recieved a telegram from modrators stating that i was kicked from the UN but for no specific reason. however, i did recieve and do acknowledge the warnings i got about UN proposals that repeal other passed UN proposals. I did not violate this rule again after i recieved the warning, however i did re-word the proposal to have a similar effect, thinking it did not violate the rules. here is the proposal:

"Resolved, that the resolution "Legalise prostitution" become a suggestion to UN members, not a mandate.

"The legalization of prostitution should be an independent decision for every country to make. Respect national sovereignty!"
As per the game rules, a passed resolution becomes a mandate and not a suggestion. There are no two ways about this, and requesting changes to that rule or exemptions from it for certain proposals or nations is the same as requesting a game mechanics change.

I did not think this proposal violated the rules; clearly i was wrong. The real-life UN's proposals are all suggestions to the member countires, so i thought that trying to make a passed resolution more "realisitic," (while at the same time furthering my own goals) would not apply under the warning i had recieved, and incur the wrath of the mods.
Realism is far from a valid argument. The FAQ makes it clear that this game is not meant to represent the real world in a faithful manner, and the behaviour of the UN is part and parcel of this.
As I understand it, you somehow acquired the belief that if you can justify a game mechanics change like this, then it somehow won't result in your warning. That strikes me as a singularly risky belief to put into practice.

is the UN ban still permanant? is there anything i can do to help my standing?
In the order in which they appear, the answers are Yes and No.

clearly i have learned a lesson here and that is: dont try to be sneaky because the rules are not law, and may be interperted by the mods beyond their wording.
Now this is just sour grapes and I'll thank you not to engage such salacious comment. The rules are "If you try to limit the powers of the UN, that is a game mechanics proposal and you will be warned. If you are warned three times, you will be ejected." Where in your case has any part of that been interpreted differently to anyone else's case? The rules are perfectly cut and dried.

Enodia,

my last comment was not sarcastic in any way, i was totally serious: lesson learned. i dont think anything i said in that last graph was inaccurate, and i am not suggesting any of the truths stated in that graph be modified- im sure they have served the game well in the past and will in the future - with, of course, some exceptions.

and my mention of UN realism was not supposed to provide an excuse, only my motovation. clearly, i should have read the rules throughly before messing around.

i would just like to point out, as a last ditch effort, that i was warned only once, and submitted only 2 resolutions violating the rule at hand.

and lastly, i would just like to comment that the mods replying to my post have answered all my questions swiftly and throughly, however there really isnt any need for a holier-than-thou attitude. even though i might have broken a cardinal rule, i am still another human being and there is just no need to be so hostile. im just a kid trying to play a free online simulation game, i made a novice mistake, and im sorry, and i understand that if im not gonna get cleared, im not gonna get cleared, and if thers nothing i can do, then theres nothing i can do. but, goddamn thats harsh, and couldnt you guys just try to be nice about it (i guess im really only referring to Enodia here)?

i didnt kill anyone, i didnt even "spam, "grief," or "flame." i made no one life lesser, i only submitted a UN resolution one too many times. anyway, if things change and there IS some action i can take, i would love to know about it. otherwise, can i just start a new nation that will not be banned from the UN?

again, i sincerely apoligize for the time and inconvience hthis might have caused anyone, no sarcasm.

sincerely,

deelishiopia

Point taken in its most substantive form. My objection was to your claim that the rules are somehow "interpreted" and "re-interpreted" as we see fit. The rules which caught you were not interpreted in any way other than the way in which they have been interpreted since Day 1.

Point taken in its most substantive form. My objection was to your claim that the rules are somehow "interpreted" and "re-interpreted" as we see fit. The rules which caught you were not interpreted in any way other than the way in which they have been interpreted since Day 1.

fair is fair, i admit full guilt. now, im guessing the answer remains the same: there is no solution, no reconciliation, no un-banning-, no mercy? i guess once this question is answered for good this thread can be laid to rest (at least for me).

also, if i start another nation, can it join the UN? what is the extent of the punishment?

also, if i start another nation, can it join the UN?

Yes.

fair is fair, i admit full guilt. now, im guessing the answer remains the same: there is no solution, no reconciliation, no un-banning-, no mercy? i guess once this question is answered for good this thread can be laid to rest (at least for me).

also, if i start another nation, can it join the UN? what is the extent of the punishment?
Beyond (as Hack says) starting a new nation and UN-ising it, then there's no solution.

OK, thats that then. thanks to all the mods who posted here for clearing things up so quickly, and also to the mod Stephistan for tolerating my telegrams and helping anyway. Also, the nation of Qaaolchoura was exteremly helpful to me, way before the mods would respond to my complaints, and for that I thank him.

I guess this thead can be deleted now.

i recently started a new nation - as per the mods instructions. (named "wednesday night").

it was recently booted from the UN for me having multiple nations in the UN!!!!! this is ridiculous! i own 2 nations - after one was perm-banned from the UN i started another one, and now tris one has been perm banned!!!

please clear me this time, i KNOW im not guilty, and there ought to be a record of it!

Wednesday Night is in the UN...

i was recently booted from the UN (same owner as deelishopia) unfairly.

anyone reading this thread still?

Wednesday Night is in the UN...

Furthermore, I still see this:

http://www.nationstates.net/images/un_member.gif

On your spotlight.

Wednesday Night is in the UN...

Furthermore, I still see this:

http://www.nationstates.net/images/un_member.gif

On your spotlight.

so its not going to get kicked? i guess im expecting it any second considering the telegrams im getting.

so its not going to get kicked? i guess im expecting it any second considering the telegrams im getting.

What telegrams? Wednesday Night has none, and the only official telegram on Deelishopia is a week old and concerns the ejection from back then.

Sounds like a cache problem to me.

Wednesday Night: It may be that you're looking at an old stored page on your computer whenever you check your telegrams. This could give you the impression that you keep receiving the same warning telegram over and over again, while in fact none have been sent to you.

Please try the following in your Browser (assuming something like IE5) :
Click on Tools->Internet Options
Tab General, button "Temporary internet Filed": Settings.
Set "Check for newer versions of stored pages" to "Every Time".
Then check your inbox again.

Ballotonia

It might be a little bit more than that, since the telegram he's describing seems to be the automatic one that gets sent whenever someone's ejected.