NationStates Jolt Archive

No matter how many times I try to log into my puppet nation, Zeboim the Sea Mother, and yes my Caps Lock is not on and I know I am typing it right, it always says "INCORRECT PASSWORD" and not only that, but the motto which should say "Underwater Empire of the Goddess Zeboim" instead says gibberish. What is wrong?

It looks to me as if it may have been hacked. Password and motto changed, flag, animal and currency the same as ever I assume form your lack of comment.

Hacking is a very serious allegation, so keep in mind that I'm only guessing.

Ok so now how do I get my nation back?

Ok so now how do I get my nation back?
Try the forgot password box.

Nations I should say now that several other countires have been taken and various message in the Mottos say something baour me flaming despire being given a warning but never once during my time here was I ever given a warning, to my knowledge, and unless my nations are restored to me within 48 hours I feel that I will have no choice but to take legal action.

Yes this is GV but with a different nation.

List of Nations that were taken over.

Taligari
The Bevelle Empire
Istar
Mishakas
K-Chat
Brave New Ford World
Perfect China
Zeboim the Sea Mother
Synchronized

Oh crap. A moderator could possibly check the IPs and see what nation is using the IP that hasn't been reported stolen.

unless my nations are restored to me within 48 hours I feel that I will have no choice but to take legal action.
Legal action? Over stealing a nation in a FREE game? Good luck finding a lawyer.

unless my nations are restored to me within 48 hours I feel that I will have no choice but to take legal action.
Legal action? Over stealing a nation in a FREE game? Good luck finding a lawyer.

Agreed. IP ban, certainly, but legal action? I don't think so, unless of course, you hack the game or steal the passwords illegally, such was the case when the fake NS II site was up and running.

unless my nations are restored to me within 48 hours I feel that I will have no choice but to take legal action.


I tell you what. When I start getting paid for the work I do here, I'll try to remember to consider thinking about maybe pondering looking into your request.

...if I have the time.

unless my nations are restored to me within 48 hours I feel that I will have no choice but to take legal action.


I tell you what. When I start getting paid for the work I do here, I'll try to remember to consider thinking about maybe pondering looking into your request.

...if I have the time.
Speaking as someone with a modicum of legal knowledge, I can safely say that you'd be politely shown the door by any lawyer who could stop laughing long enough to do so.

I would like to point out that never once did I flame, I was at times a victim of flame attacks but I was never given a warning, no emails were sent and not a single moderator ever informed me of a warning, yet one day out of the blue several of my nations had been taken over on a false charge. This is a violation of your own rules and I request that you obey them and return my nations to me.

Well order them again. That'll help your cause.

I would like to point out that never once did I flame, I was at times a victim of flame attacks but I was never given a warning, no emails were sent and not a single moderator ever informed me of a warning, yet one day out of the blue several of my nations had been taken over on a false charge. This is a violation of your own rules and I request that you obey them and return my nations to me.
There are two issues here. The answer to the first neither helps nor hinders the other, and vice versa. Allow me to explain:

I would like to point out that never once did I flame, I was at times a victim of flame attacks but I was never given a warning, no emails were sent and not a single moderator ever informed me of a warning,
All I can say with complete certainty is that I've never warned you for anything. However, the fact that you never flamed and neither were you warned is neither here nor there in relation to your complaint about nation-stealing.

yet one day out of the blue several of my nations had been taken over on a false charge. This is a violation of your own rules and I request that you obey them and return my nations to me.
If your nations "had been taken over" as you claim, then the most common reason is that someone, somewhere, worked out your password and jumped at the chance to create havoc. Additionally, if you have auto-login or any form of saved password on the computer you access your nations with, then you run the considerable risk that they might be hijacked in this way. All a would-be thief need do is type the name of the nation and the password will appear.

The FAQ dealt with the problem of "nation-stealing" in the past, and I believe it still does. The upshot is that these claims are very difficult to prove or disprove and, unless you can get the password sent to the Email address currently associated with the nation, you don't have much hope of having it restored to you. Salusa's tried some other solutions in the past, and he might be able to here as well, but that is an outside possibility.
The statement in the FAQ is that you simply need to assume that a hostile government has taken over.

I should probably point out that under no circumstances do the mods take nations over in the manner which you have described. If your nations had actually flamed (not that I'm saying they had), then they would have been deleted rather than given this sort of treatment. If the mottos say that you've flamed, that's an entirely different issue and is caused by someone wanting to create havoc.

As for anyone actually looking into this situation any further (e.g. Sal's solutions to nation-stealing), do you really think that threatening legal action and making demands of the mods is the way to go about getting something done?

By the way, if you still remember their old passwords (ie before they were apparently changed), the forum accounts will still use those original passwords. To log in to one of them on the forum, close IE, empty your cookies, and come back to NS. Go straight to the forums without logging in (disable auto loggin if it is), and try to post something. You will be asked for an account name and password. Use the original passwords to the nations and you can log in and post with them.

I'm not sure if the mods will accept this as proof of ownership or not, though I am pretty sure they will.

By the way, if you still remember their old passwords (ie before they were apparently changed), the forum accounts will still use those original passwords. To log in to one of them on the forum, close IE, empty your cookies, and come back to NS. Go straight to the forums without logging in (disable auto loggin if it is), and try to post something. You will be asked for an account name and password. Use the original passwords to the nations and you can log in and post with them.

I'm not sure if the mods will accept this as proof of ownership or not, though I am pretty sure they will.

It depends on the situation, however, I may need to wait on this one until such a time as I've talked with my lawyers and know that there will be no legal repercussions for me restoring access to the account without absolute guarentee of ownership.

unless my nations are restored to me within 48 hours I feel that I will have no choice but to take legal action.

Then again, perhaps I will just wait for a subpeona. I do not appreciate being threatened. It is made quite clear in the FAQs that national security is your own resposibility. Restoration of control of an account is the extremely rare exception to the rule, and we are under no obligation to do so.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling
PGP: 0x0604DF3E

SalusaSecondus: Sorry if you feel mad at me because I at the time felt that the MODS had stolen my nations but I'll try your suggestions but what else can I do to get them back?

This is the REAL ownet of Perfect China.

*Note that the previous post was made by the TRUE owner of Perfect China and all nations listed as stolen.

To the thief: Your crime has been exposed, give it up.

Another note is that Gehenna Viros was also stolen by the thief.

Another note is that Gehenna Viros was also stolen by the thief.

Another note is that Gehenna Viros was also stolen by the thief.

Another note is that Gehenna Viros was also stolen by the thief.

Damm double posts!

I can't believe someone would go out of their way to steal other peoples nations, please restore this nation to it's real owner.

I can't believe someone would go out of their way to steal other peoples nations, please restore this nation to it's real owner.

LOST: One Nation Stolen By Unknown Party:

Name: Brave New Ford World

Please help the owner get total control back from the theif, stealing is wrong.

LOST: One Nation Stolen By Unknown Party:

Name: Brave New Ford World

Please help the owner get total control back from the theif, stealing is wrong.

Now that I have posted with K-Chat, NS's only radio station there are only a few more contries left that I have to prove are mine by showing that I and I alone know the original passwords.

I've have now posted with Synchronized.

Only a few more left, I can only hope this can be fixed by morning.

Posted with my baby Mishakas! Once I get this nation back I am going to do such grand things with her on an RP level.

NEWLY STOLEN!

Please return Quartzstan to it's real owner from the evil nation stealing thief that walks among us!

I only checked two, but...

K-Chat and Brave New Ford World only has one IP range associated with it, the same IP range that the forum posts are from.

If they've been stolen, they were stolen by someone using your computer.

This happened to a nation of Nasicournia recently (Donesk). Whomever was responsible was using his nation to flame other players. Luckily the person flamed only other members of Nasi, so before anyone went to the Mods about the flames they solved the problem internally--figuring out that Donesk himself was not controlling the nation at the time.

I believe that he had fallen victim to the "forgetting to log out of account" syndrome, but I'm not sure. He has re-gained control of his nation, and I know that a report was filed to the Getting Help page (try it, it usually works ;)).

I've previously encountered nations who claimed to have hacked into other players' accounts (one I don't doubt may have actually hacked our regional password and the password of another region, but did no damage), but it usually ends up being a relative of the nation owner (little brothers and sisters seem to be the most likely suspects).

For the public's consideration:

For some reason I cannot fathom, the player behind Mishakal, Mishakas, and the numerous puppets posted with in this thread, for some reason likes to hang out in my region, Space Sector RPRA. Now, as you may or may not know, I am the founder of that region, and I am not terribly fond of said player. Hence, I exercised the "eject" function, and removed Mishakas from my region, as per the right of any regional founder to perform.

I then received a rather tart telegram asking why the heck I booted Mishakas, to which I sent a perfectly civil response that "I am the founder of Space Sector RPRA, and I do not want you in my region."

In response, I got this:
The Constitutional Monarchy of Mishakas
Received: 3 days ago *translation*

Your an asshole who likes to pick on random people because he has had a bad day.

Close to the mark?

Rather than dignify the flame with a response, I merely reported the matter to another game moderator, as I am not qualified to render any sort of judgement in this case, being that I am directly involved. I let that game moderator handle it as they saw fit. The player behind Mishakas has been warned numerous times for flaming, by myself as well as by various other mods, for a tendancy to fly off the handle and start flaming other players when he has a dispute. (The "Giga-Malbutta" flame thread being one such example, though I am afraid I do not have a link at this time.)

Apparently, Mishakas has been locked out of several of his nations, rather than simply deleted. I do not know why, perhaps to try and forcefully drive home the point that flaming is a bad thing. I then received this telegram from another of his puppets:

The Oppressed Peoples of The Eternal Quagmire
Received: 2 days ago And so you prove me right, you have no respect for anyone and will go out of your way to attack the people who do not like you and/or don't agree with you and express their view.

I pity you.

Again, I did not respond, and left it to one of the other game mods. The moderator center logs will show that I have had no involvement whatsoever in the handling of this situation, which is what I suspect I'm being indirectly accused of.

~Reploid Productions

I haven't been able to post for a couple of days due to some problems at home, which are now fixed but I'll answer everyones posts.


Most Glorious Hack:

I am an only child and my parents rarly use the internet and why would I lock myself out of my nations.

Reploid Productions: Never once was I ever given a warning by any of the mods. You are a bad liar and if a certain someone has hacked into my computer you are my first suspect. Prove to me that you didn't do it and I will reconsider my opinion of you.

I haven't been able to post for a couple of days due to some problems at home, which are now fixed but I'll answer everyones posts.


Most Glorious Hack:

I am an only child and my parents rarly use the internet and why would I lock myself out of my nations.

Reploid Productions: Never once was I ever given a warning by any of the mods. You are a bad liar and if a certain someone has hacked into my computer you are my first suspect. Prove to me that you didn't do it and I will reconsider my opinion of you.

Reploid Productions: Never once was I ever given a warning by any of the mods. You are a bad liar and if a certain someone has hacked into my computer you are my first suspect. Prove to me that you didn't do it and I will reconsider my opinion of you.

Warnings from the mods do not always come in the form of a telegram. There have been a multitude of times in the forums where you have gone flying off the handle and started flaming, and been warned to cool it. When I'm not sleep deprived, I'll go digging and track down some of those threads. Fact is, you have been warned before, I'm sure if you ask just about any of the mods they will tell you so. Whether or not you took those warnings for what they were or not is a problem on your end, not the mods.

I'm rather flattered you think I'm capable of hacking. If I were capable of hacking somebody else's computer, would I really want to waste my time on some guy's account on a free game? Hell, you probably know more about hacking than I do.

As for 'proving' anything, I have already posted my piece. You are welcome to contact [violet] (email: admin@nationstates.net) if you honestly think I 'hacked' you or abused my mod powers. Your opinion on me is no concern of mine- you can cry out that you loathe me and hate me forever and wish all sorts of bad things on me, and I will not care. The people who's opinions do matter to me is that of my bosses on this game- Max Barry and [violet].

~Reploid Productions

I can tell you that you have been locked out of your nations for continual violations of the rules. No, you will not be getting them back.

I can tell you that you have been locked out of your nations for continual violations of the rules. No, you will not be getting them back.

Effective deletion, only without actual removal from the game. Why this decision, why not just go ahead and modbomb the puppets?

On one hand, this is a frightening development in punishments. On the other hand, a permanent barring isn't really any worse than deletion...

I can tell you that you have been locked out of your nations for continual violations of the rules. No, you will not be getting them back.

I have not violated a single rule and your robbery of my nations was an illegal hacking job and I believe that hacking into another persons computer is illegal (unless I mixed this up with some other law) and can get you put in jail.

I have not violated a single rule and your robbery of my nations was an illegal hacking job and I believe that hacking into another persons computer is illegal (unless I mixed this up with some other law) and can get you put in jail.

Sounds to me like yet another attack of... you guessed it, ladies and gentlemen...

THE MIND POLICE!

http://www.big.or.jp/~bird/e-kobi/e-na-mmenu/e-na-car/na-car06.jpg

I have not violated a single rule
Incorrect. You have flamed many, many times. You flamed those who attacked your nations while In Character; you flamed those who disagreed with you Out Of Character.

You weren't particularly good at it ("asshole" and "Giga-MalButta" are rather teethless insults) but that is beside the point.

and your robbery
Incorrect. Modification of national parameters.

of my nations was an illegal hacking job
Incorrect. It was a perfectly legal application of our moderator powers, as indicated by the Terms of Service you chose to accept when you began using this website and its forums.

and I believe that hacking into another persons computer is illegal (unless I mixed this up with some other law) and can get you put in jail.
That is true. However, let me explain something to you.

Your nations and their attributes ARE NOT stored on your computer. Your computer contains nothing but the cookies the website uses to allow you to auto-login.

Your nations and their attributes ARE stored on Max Barry's privately owned server, and he has given us authorization to edit the data on that server as needed to maintain his Terms of Service.

Now... if we change data on a computer that is not yours and we are authorized to access, it's hardly hacking, now is it?

We did this so you could see why you are being punished. Instead, you turned out to be unusually impermeable to simple information. That is unfortunate; it would've been simpler to just delete your nations but then you would come back asking "OMG WHY AM I DALEETED?!?!?!"

So we put something up where you cannot access your nations and explain why--because you just keep flaming--and yet you still come up and ask "OMG WHY AM I NOT IN MY NATIONS?!?!?" when we tell you.

Repeatedly.

Now, is that clearly understood?

Of course, Scolo, it's tempting to leave him at this point and see how rapidly he can be thrown out of a lawyer's office for attempting to turn this into a legal issue. There've been some other players in the past who haven't enjoyed the fact that Terms of Service can come back and bite them and who've threatened legal action. None of them have ever been successful - in fact, they've all gone eerily quiet after we've pointed out the error of their ways.

Scolo, I only attack Mallberta when he tried to force me into an RP I clearly expressed I did not wish to do and was based on a flawed storyline but when he went and tried to Godmod my performance I lost my temper but as far as I was aware of no one gave me a warning and why in god's name did you drag this dead issue out now that is has been buried for months?

Scolo, I only attack Mallberta when he tried to force me into an RP I clearly expressed I did not wish to do and was based on a flawed storyline but when he went and tried to Godmod my performance I lost my temper but as far as I was aware of no one gave me a warning and why in god's name did you drag this dead issue out now that is has been buried for months?
Maybe because it's relevant to the topic that you keep bringing up? You're a child, you can't behave yourself and you continually demonstrate why deleting your accounts or otherwise barring you from participating in the forums is a good idea.

Now, do we need to beat you with another cluestick, or will you take the hint and go away?

Scolo, I only attack Mallberta when he tried to force me into an RP I clearly expressed I did not wish to do and was based on a flawed storyline but when he went and tried to Godmod my performance I lost my temper but as far as I was aware of no one gave me a warning and why in god's name did you drag this dead issue out now that is has been buried for months?
Maybe because it's relevant to the topic that you keep bringing up? You're a child, you can't behave yourself and you continually demonstrate why deleting your accounts or otherwise barring you from participating in the forums is a good idea.

Now, do we need to beat you with another cluestick, or will you take the hint and go away?
Now now, Treznor. There's no need to be quite so harsh. Still, the message might sink in.

Scolo, I only attack Mallberta
So at least there is an admission... looks like some progress has been made.

when he tried to force me into an RP I clearly expressed I did not wish to do and was based on a flawed storyline but when he went and tried to Godmod my performance I lost my temper
Irrelevant. Because one is unhappy does not authorize one for flaming, especially if apologies are never forthcoming.

but as far as I was aware of no one gave me a warning
I am rather certain we called you on that one. And many others.

and why in god's name
Does God have anything to do with this? Leave It out of such a trifle.

did you drag this dead issue out now that is has been buried for months?
Because it is a pertinent example of your behavior that has been, is, and will most likely be a constant of your attitude here on NS. That exact same behavior which has led us to this point.

I reiterate: Do you understand?