NationStates Jolt Archive

My proposal UNLF was deleted hours before it was to be voted on. There was no reason for this to have been done. That proposal did not seek to change game mechanics in any way. It would not have done any more, or any less than any proposal. It is silly to delete my proposal after I have spent literally 6+ hours telegramming delegates, and anwsering questions. My proposal was also on the message board for a week, with no mention of it even coming close to violating game mechanics. I want my proposal to be put up to vote. This is unfair, and I want my proposal voted on, if it is to be defeated, let the members of the UN decide.

Here is exactly how many votes the proposal had, around 1AM EST last night:

UNLF- United Nations Lottery Fund

At current, UN resolutions that have passed are exceeding the UN budget. Instead of having a tax in which UN nations pay, I propose a voluntary monetary fund, a lottery. The lottery would work like this:


-It would take place on every night at 11:00 PM EST.
--In the event that no one wins, the lottery's jackpot would be extended to the next drawing.

-Minimum age of player to be set by local gambling laws.

-The lottery tickets would cost $1.
--$2 to double (non-jackpot) winnings.

-10% of money received would be deposited into a fund, in which the UN would use that to pay for the funding of all the passed proposals.
--An additional 5% of the money received would be set aside for for the next lottery.
---1% of of the money received to go to funding a program to treat addicted gamblers.

-Upon winning, the winner would receive $250,000 a month, in their native currency, until the jackpot has been paid in full.

Approvals: 172 (Anward, ChutneyLand, Final Fantasy Addicts, West - Europa, Quantum Group, Thrace-Tailteann, Grays Harbor, Coolet, Arcadia of My Youth, Chezrak, Wedontcare, Tempus Incognitum, The Vatican State, RomeW, Cheatopia, Brother Martin, Mentholyptus, Morrissette, Tylerville, Petsburg, Minni, Shabna, Malamutistan, Oliland, Atrubfit, Jacordia, Aamerricaaa, Nendeln, Teknocracy, Anhinga, Hairy whales, Nepherious, Sofiat, FireClan, Azelma, Beatleland, 8th and I, Monstranian, Naffiss, Sharkuras, The Lowcountry, Celebros, Azenker88, Sino China, Feb, Dunnlovia, Zelpherthe, Panzerangriffs, Cottonisking, Taraguy, Yuki Sonada, The Eagles Nest, Jamaican Cheese, Crossman, Mormon Hostile 6, Helvetereich, Chipstonia, Pisceslandia, Valdore, Saian, Chinese Canada, Beadza, Poocha, Novistranaland, Bragonnia, Chanchos, For freedom, Secluded Sanctuary, Romanada, Stockfallet, Helixia, Sayonatasalami, Jenn Hurtado, Kahta, Fenris Ulf, Outer Epidermis, Fairfields, Knootoss, Rebeccania, Zachnia, Deepimpactistan, Tharim, Ninja turtle pirates, Clbck, Crystal Isle, Midgard X, Teracknor, Formato, Kings World, Rondebosch, Moleland, General Mike, Beveni, Coffey, Tsyu Tsaere, WOMBLEOPOLIS, Foulds, Gadji, Excessive Oppulence, Lygonia, Wahrheit, Area 54, Borogravia Moldavi, Alienware, Mattidemus, Schizophonica, America 2004, Hoobville, New Verona, Crozbia, Albagubra, Super majico, The Emperor Fenix, Sox Nation, Maihaty, Kzarvexrius, Disagreeable bastards, Cherry Cola, Markodonia, Rabbiton, Pancho Carrancho, Sopping Euphoria, Amory, Eztli, Low Brassia, Lein, Aommoa, FreakyFunkySexyCats, America on Mars, Tomoz, Malletopia, Hammonhelm, Pierusaari, Stantopia, JStar, Blumploslovakia, Carbanousa, Basque country, Germania Improva, Nairn centre, Delanova, Japonanze, Drace, The Meta Consortium, The Skyline, Ale and Lager, Liten, Tyrium, Eighty-Seven, Soltak, Sorrillia, Three Spinning Legs, Embreetoningsonland, Fredericksville, Orleon, Aztec National League, Fanatical Patriotism, Alalala, Rolfinstein, Tyyrannia, The Providences, Caligatio, Vacagorda, Fig, ST Fox, Estebanotopia, Novoran, Wolf Nation, Antidisestablishta, Froggertopia, Anarresa, Balouba)

Status: Quorum Reached: In Queue!

I really hope this gets read.

Semi On-Topic:

I noticed that Sino China's space exploration proposal (forget the exact name) also reached quorom (at the same time as the last resolution the UN voted on did) and isn't there any more...

Possible bug in the UN code?

I hope so. THe only other thing I can think of is that both were deleted for being in the wrong category, and that doesn't seem likely (although to be honest I have forgotten the categories of both).

I can see immediately why it got deleted. As it stands, there's no way to implement this. You'd have to give the game a complete overhaul just to include the micromanaged economies this resolution requires, and then a whole new bucket of coding to permit nations to donate, and to distribute the funds. It would fundamentally change the game.

It might sound harsh, but Anward's proposal was deleted because the potential was there for it to be interpreted as actually allowing this UN Lottery to exist.

It's a very fine line, and I'll be the first to admit that sometimes proposals are deleted which fall on the right side of it or allowed to go through when they don't (there was a space program one late last year that I completely missed and which should have been killed, from memory it didn't get passed though). The rule of thumb I try to use is that if the proposal is basically all about a particular category (e.g. "There should be more free trade because free trade will improve the living conditions of the majority world"*) and happens to advocate the creation of a particular committee (e.g. "So therefore we need to have a UN Commission on Free Trade") as a by-product, then it's a valid proposal.
If, however, the proposal spends most of its time advocating this hypothetical commission (especially if done to the extent that it sets out rules etc for it) and only tangentially touches on Free Trade, then it's invalid.

This proposal spent most of its length discussing how this particular fund could be set up and the risk was there that players might expect one to suddenly be called into existence.
Before anyone says that this would never happen, I was here when the proposal "More Knowledge of Own Country" was passed and people were wondering why they didn't receive this mythical knowledge. I've had people ask me why proposals "in violation of the resolution about proper grammar" were allowed to continue in the queue. I've even had people ask me who the Secretary General is.
Again, it sounds like a harsh rule and it most likely is a harsh rule, but unfortunately that's the reasoning I used.

It might sound harsh, but Anward's proposal was deleted because the potential was there for it to be interpreted as actually allowing this UN Lottery to exist.


So what exactly does that mean? You mean like people might actually think legalizing prostitution would allow prostitutes to walk the streets? Or how legalizing euthanasia would allow people to kill their ill 80-year-old grandmother?
I fail to see why that would make my proposal be deleted.


This proposal spent most of its length discussing how this particular fund could be set up and the risk was there that players might expect one to suddenly be called into existence.


This has the same issue as state above. Every proposal is expected to work, but that is where the caring ends. There were pages and pages of protests to the Euthanasia law, and after it was passed we don't hear a thing about it. This all comes down the fact, that once the issue comes up again, and it has for me already, I can outlaw Euthanasia in my country.

That is the fundamental problem with the UN, it is all about role-play. The ONLY that changes in a country from a passed UN law, is the 3 variables at the top of each countries page. It has nothing more than a skin-deep approach with things, overall it is just shallow.

Also, I do not believe you can violate 'game mechanics' by doing this proposal. The only way I see something violating 'game mechanics' is by proposing a change in the way the game works, such as the previous passed proposal of adding a search engine. All my proposal was, was an inventive, and creative way to legalize gambling. My proposal also attempts to anwser the question, just where does this UN get it's funding? Nothing about my proposal did anything you stated. All it did was legalize gambling, nothing else but that and the 3 variables would have changed. How might they have changed you ask?
-The Civil Rights value could increase. People have more freedom on how they wish to spend their money.

-The Economy value could incease. As more countries have winners, they will inevitably spend that money within their own country.

I ask you again, will you please, please put my proposal up in front of the UN assembly. I worked very hard to get that proposal passed, I do not wish to see all that time, and effort down the toilet.

Thanks.

That is the fundamental problem with the UN, it is all about role-play. The ONLY that changes in a country from a passed UN law, is the 3 variables at the top of each countries page. It has nothing more than a skin-deep approach with things, overall it is just shallow.

And that's where you're wrong in your view on the UN. It combines TWO things:
- Roleplay
- In-game statistics

The statistics are much more than just those three variables. There's a LOT of them, and they influence your rankings in the various UN Reports as well.

You could rewritre your proposal to focus more on the overall concept: a lottery to pay for UN costs, and not go into detail of implementation (naming pay-offs, how the pay-offs are done, time when the lottery is held, etc...) It's the focus on the implementation of the lottery that might give the impression that an implemented lottery will be part of the game itself if this proposal is passed. Added benefit: this can be mostly done by cutting stuff out of your proposal, so it's easy enough.

Suggestion though: when you're done, let Enodia or another mod take a look at it (post it in the UN forum and ask).

Added note: to my knowledge, mods cannot place proposals in the queue with endorsements added. So, there's not a lot of actual recourse to be gotten here.

Ballotonia

It might sound harsh, but Anward's proposal was deleted because the potential was there for it to be interpreted as actually allowing this UN Lottery to exist.


So what exactly does that mean? You mean like people might actually think legalizing prostitution would allow prostitutes to walk the streets? Or how legalizing euthanasia would allow people to kill their ill 80-year-old grandmother?
I fail to see why that would make my proposal be deleted.

Enodia is not referring to real-life, here. He means that players might get confused and think that such a lottery would suddenly become a part of the game. It won't; any lottery would have to be coded in by [violet].

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

So what exactly does that mean? You mean like people might actually think legalizing prostitution would allow prostitutes to walk the streets? Or how legalizing euthanasia would allow people to kill their ill 80-year-old grandmother?
I fail to see why that would make my proposal be deleted.
This is a false analogy. Your proposal was about creating some kind of lottery in which the nations on this site could gamble to varying degrees. It is therefore the same as a proposal saying "The UN needs a Security Council". Neither a lottery nor a UNSC will be created based on the passage of a proposal, but Murphy's Law being what it is, people will ask why "this lottery that the UN now has" doesn't exist.

This has the same issue as state above. Every proposal is expected to work, but that is where the caring ends. There were pages and pages of protests to the Euthanasia law, and after it was passed we don't hear a thing about it. This all comes down the fact, that once the issue comes up again, and it has for me already, I can outlaw Euthanasia in my country.

That is the fundamental problem with the UN, it is all about role-play. The ONLY that changes in a country from a passed UN law, is the 3 variables at the top of each countries page. It has nothing more than a skin-deep approach with things, overall it is just shallow.
Debates about the euthanasia law (or the prostitution law, or any other valid law) aside - they're false analogies as I've explained above - you're quite right in your statement that the UN is all about RP. As I have said, since you're trying to create something that does not exist and is much more tangible than a law allowing euthanasia, it's a game mechanics change.

In terms of your request to put the proposal back - no can do. That function does not exist and even if it did, my judgement that it was a game mechanis change stands. The only way to get a deleted proposal back is to re-propose it, although that's hardly recommended since you've already got the one warning - three strikes and you're out.

Ballotonia makes a very good point. I'm more than happy to look through proposals which might be open to interpretation, but before they get posted.

That is highly unfair. This has just killed any fun in writing proposals for me. I am not going to even try for my goal of 5 passed proposals. I already knew your final decision before I even posted this. I had to try regardless though. Also I know that moderators do not change their minds once made. I should know, I am one, for another game no less.

That is highly unfair. This has just killed any fun in writing proposals for me. I am not going to even try for my goal of 5 passed proposals. I already knew your final decision before I even posted this. I had to try regardless though. Also I know that moderators do not change their minds once made. I should know, I am one, for another game no less.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but rules are rules.

I've given up posting proposals for the simple reason that, no matter how good I, or anyone else, think they are, they never get anywhere near Quorum. It's almost a complete waste of time now, alas...

I've given up posting proposals for the simple reason that, no matter how good I, or anyone else, think they are, they never get anywhere near Quorum. It's almost a complete waste of time now, alas...

A major part in politics lies outside the issue writing itself: lobbying.

Ballotonia

I've given up posting proposals for the simple reason that, no matter how good I, or anyone else, think they are, they never get anywhere near Quorum. It's almost a complete waste of time now, alas...

A major part in politics lies outside the issue writing itself: lobbying.

Ballotonia

And getting your proposal on page 1 on the final day of consideration.

Incidentally, the resolution (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=120881)'s sole purpose was to establish a UN agency, which is considered game mechanics.

I so called this one.... :P

~Goobergunchia, who has actually passed a resolution