NationStates Jolt Archive

http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif

I have asked this before and received a reasonable reply from a mod whos name escapes me, sorry. But this person is repeatedly posting stuff directly off the site of most racist 'political' party in Britain. Now when I complained before, I was told it's perfectly legitimate to cut and paste stuff to promote political parties. I accepted that, I still do, thems is the rules, fine. But every thread he starts is pure flame-bait by all the definitions I've read on this site. I don't claim to understand his real agenda because he's always given a trouncing by me and others, that's why we all go to the General after all, for a good old debate. However, it's only a matter of time before someone (yes, maybe me) flames him so agressively that someone gets deleted. I know, don't flame and it won't happen but that's why we/you have the 'no flame-baiting rule'. If I flamed him as a response to something he, himself has written, I would rightly get deaded. Can he please be asked not to directly promote the vile BNP party.....please? The BNP is a violent party and causes huge 'racial' problems in the UK. For us Brits arguing with him, having that knowledge, it is frustrating but if it was his own words, nasty though I believe them to be, that would be one thing. What we're actually doing is arging with a semi-official of the BNP and the hate propoganda he posts. I also acknowledge the argument that if I don't like what he says, don't respond. But that's why we debate here, it's a bit pointless us all agreeing with each other all the time. I am not asking for his deletion, nor even a warning, just a request for him to desist posting articles direct from the BNP site as and when he reads them. Please. Here below is a sample of his 'debating' technique'.


Mongoose Spatula Negotiator Founded: 13 Oct 2003Posts: 1488 Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 8:05 pm Post subject:

Dancing Leprechauns wrote:
note the use of inverted commas
Note the use of my hand as I make the "wanker" sign..

I have asked this before and received a reasonable reply from a mod whos name escapes me, sorry. But this person is repeatedly posting stuff directly off the site of most racist 'political' party in Britain. Now when I complained before, I was told it's perfectly legitimate to cut and paste stuff to promote political parties. I accepted that, I still do, thems is the rules, fine. But every thread he starts is pure flame-bait by all the definitions I've read on this site.

I beg to differ. Since I'm allowed to post news articles from my political party, that's what I do. You're only calling them "flame bait" because you don't agree with them.

That's all I do, is post news articles.

Once again you cry out for censorship against someone just because you don't agree with what they say.

You've tried to drive me off the board by constantly flaming and belittling me and and my beliefs, and it hasn't worked. Now you go running to the Mods crying "flame bait."

Well, when the Mods go to check out the threads I hope they will take note of all your flames and insults directed at me, that are contained therein.

This particular person has made countless borderline flames...

Dancing Leprechauns wrote:
note the use of inverted commas
Note the use of my hand as I make the "wanker" sign..

And another thing, don't take little snippets like this and post them completely out of context.

Quote ALL of what happened, or none of it.

This particular person has made countless borderline flames...

Spherical Objects makes constant flames against me all the time, and there's nothing borderline about them. You yourself, as I pointed out recently, are not averse to using a bit of strong language. Away with you.

I have asked this before and received a reasonable reply from a mod whos name escapes me, sorry. But this person is repeatedly posting stuff directly off the site of most racist 'political' party in Britain. Now when I complained before, I was told it's perfectly legitimate to cut and paste stuff to promote political parties. I accepted that, I still do, thems is the rules, fine. But every thread he starts is pure flame-bait by all the definitions I've read on this site.

I beg to differ. Since I'm allowed to post news articles from my political party, that's what I do. You're only calling them "flame bait" because you don't agree with them.

That's all I do, is post news articles.

Once again you cry out for censorship against someone just because you don't agree with what they say.

You've tried to drive me off the board by constantly flaming and belittling me and and my beliefs, and it hasn't worked. Now you go running to the Mods crying "flame bait."

Well, when the Mods go to check out the threads I hope they will take note of all your flames and insults directed at me, that are contained therein.
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This is not the forum to argue on but just to say that I don't want censorship, please re-read my post.

Another thing. If there's going to be censorship against the BNP on this site, then there must be a ban on ALL political parties. You cannot ban people from promoting one party and not others.

Perhaps the Mods should go and have a look at the BNP site for themselves, and then decide how "vile" it is?

http://www.bnp.org.uk

Another thing. If there's going to be censorship against the BNP on this site, then there must be a ban on ALL political parties. You cannot ban people from promoting one party and not others.

Perhaps the Mods should go and have a look at the BNP site for themselves, and then decide how "vile" it is?

http://www.bnp.org.uk

That would be rather like the mods visiting this site (http://www.korea-dpr.com) to pass judgement on Kim Jong-Il.

This article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/programmes/2001/bnp_special/default.stm) would probably provide a more accurate read.

Another thing. If there's going to be censorship against the BNP on this site, then there must be a ban on ALL political parties. You cannot ban people from promoting one party and not others.

Perhaps the Mods should go and have a look at the BNP site for themselves, and then decide how "vile" it is?

http://www.bnp.org.uk

That would be rather like the mods visiting this site (http://www.korea-dpr.com) to pass judgement on Kim Jong-Il.

This article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/programmes/2001/bnp_special/default.stm) would probably provide a more accurate read.

Let's face it, any information you're going to give is going to be totally biased against my party, because you are anti-BNP. We have nothing but smear-campaigns against us, constantly. All this stuff you dredge up is just an extension of that.

Um, I really don't want to debate this in Moderation, but you can hardly say that the BBC has an agenda against the BNP.
The BBC has no agendas...
You basically say any organisation who says anything against the BNP must be biased and therefore all their information is false.
You know which other parties share those views? The 'Communist' parties of China and North Korea.
You claim that anything by the BBC is biased, and then go around posting news from the BNP, a political party, as if it isn't biased!

Once again, I state that if the BNP (a legitimate political party) is going to be banned from this site, then so must every other political party.

Another thing. If there's going to be censorship against the BNP on this site, then there must be a ban on ALL political parties. You cannot ban people from promoting one party and not others.

Perhaps the Mods should go and have a look at the BNP site for themselves, and then decide how "vile" it is?

http://www.bnp.org.uk

That would be rather like the mods visiting this site (http://www.korea-dpr.com) to pass judgement on Kim Jong-Il.

This article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/programmes/2001/bnp_special/default.stm) would probably provide a more accurate read.

Let's face it, any information you're going to give is going to be totally biased against my party, because you are anti-BNP. We have nothing but smear-campaigns against us, constantly. All this stuff you dredge up is just an extension of that.

Look, this isn't the forum for this argument, leave it to a mod. But again, as you provoke so well, the link to the BBC by Myrth is a perfectly valid and non-biased one. Let's see what the Mods say.

I do appreciate the humour in the first (North-Korea) link, actually.

But indeed, I guess the BBC-info is just the other extreme story. And we all heard (even on the continent) how trustworthy the BBC is :)

Nothing wrong with hearing both sides though...

Trying to impose bans on opinions is never respectable. You can disagree with any opinion, and discuss it, but never ever ignore or ban it...

Debate regarding political parties is one thing, repeatedly copying and pasting random articles onto the forum which have in the past attracted flames could be judged flamebait.
You've said yourself that you don't post these things to start debate, but to merely inform us of the BNP's rather unique outlook on things. If people were interested, could they not go to the BNP site and look up the news for themselves? Why do they need you to repeatedly post these things on the forum?
It's up to the mods to decide.

In that way of thinking, dear Myrth, if we were interested in your opinion we could ask for it :wink:

Actually, no. My way of thinking is that MS just randomly posts articles from the BNP website, with nothing else.

Don't you three have anything better to do than snipe and whine at each other? Honestly. Just roll your eyes and get on with your lives.

Okaaay . . .

I cannot do anything about this now, because quite simply there is nothing solid to act on. If there is a problem with specific posts that any individual makes, in the sense that they violate the forum rules, please report them here, taking care to provide links to said posts. Such reports will then be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

Regarding the linking to or quoting of real-life political party material, as long as it is done in a manner conductive to debate, there should be no problem. If it is done in a manner which constitutes trolling or spamming, that is another matter, but we can decide whether this is the case only if we are given specific examples to consider.

Regarding the copying and pasting of controversial subject matter and then not returning to post in the thread, effectively leaving behind the possibility of a flame war, that is something which I personally consider to be antisocial behaviour, and everyone would do well to be careful about doing it too often. It is a matter of common sense and courtesy, after all.

And now, I will ask everyone to take their political differences back to the General Forum, and return only if they can link me to something relatively recent which in all probability does break the rules. Because I do not have the time to go through an extensive post history on the off chance that an individual was less than polite a couple of weeks ago.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

. . .
Regarding the linking to or quoting of real-life political party material, as long as it is done in a manner conductive to debate, there should be no problem. If it is done in a manner which constitutes trolling or spamming, that is another matter, but we can decide whether this is the case only if we are given specific examples to consider.

Regarding the copying and pasting of controversial subject matter and then not returning to post in the thread, effectively leaving behind the possibility of a flame war, that is something which I personally consider to be antisocial behaviour, and everyone would do well to be careful about doing it too often. It is a matter of common sense and courtesy, after all.
Yes. But cut-and-pasting is particularly prone to inducing flames. Researching and writing a detailed response takes time; far more time than cutting-and-pasting an article, and it doesn't take much cut-and-pasting to get overwhelmed by the number of articles. The temptation is to forgo the time and just do a quick flame. I would regard excess cut-and-pasting to be antisocial as well. It is not arguing a position on its merits, rather it is a matter of overwhelming a discussion with volume, and due to the time and effort required to mount a rebuttal (regardless of subject), it doesn't take much volume to significantly lower the quality of a discussion. I endevour not to flame in Mongoose Spatula's or Schorgenland's threads, and I ignore The Red Arrow's threads, but I find the cut-and-pasting annoying.

I beg to differ. Since I'm allowed to post news articles from my political party, that's what I do.
Just because you can do something doesn't mean it is right for you do that thing.

Here's an unusual thought: do you know what happens when people don't respond to a thread? It sinks to the bottom. You know what happens when you do? You bump it. It matters not a jot that your bump is a cleverly thought out response. It doesn't matter that you bump with a flame. Whatever you do, you keep the thread going. Not only this but experience shows that attempts to no platform on this forum always backfires. For better or for worse.

Entirely up to you. You can either take control of yourself, or you can allow someone else to push your buttons. Personally, I'm not playing the game.

Here's an unusual thought: do you know what happens when people don't respond to a thread? It sinks to the bottom. You know what happens when you do? You bump it. It matters not a jot that your bump is a cleverly thought out response. It doesn't matter that you bump with a flame. Whatever you do, you keep the thread going. Not only this but experience shows that attempts to no platform on this forum always backfires. For better or for worse.

Entirely up to you. You can either take control of yourself, or you can allow someone else to push your buttons. Personally, I'm not playing the game.

The problem is getting everybody to cooperate. No matter how many forum veterans swear a solemn oath never to respond to a flamebait post, there will always be newcomers around to post a reply, unless it sinks off the first page so quickly that no one notices.

Here's an unusual thought: do you know what happens when people don't respond to a thread? It sinks to the bottom. You know what happens when you do? You bump it. It matters not a jot that your bump is a cleverly thought out response. It doesn't matter that you bump with a flame. Whatever you do, you keep the thread going. Not only this but experience shows that attempts to no platform on this forum always backfires. For better or for worse.

Entirely up to you. You can either take control of yourself, or you can allow someone else to push your buttons. Personally, I'm not playing the game.
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Perfectly right. But why does anyone use the General? It exists for debate. What you suggest means deliberately not arguing the issues that interest or concern me most. I rarely start threads, I don't flame-bait by cut and pasting long articles from, say, The Anti Nazi League. Why? Because it's flame-bait, pure and simple. I could prattle on and say I'm a supporter and member of it and am 'excercising my legitimate NS rights'....but it would still be flame-bait. If the player in question posted his stuff and backed it up with some argument and then stayed and debated in a reasonable manner, not 'bollocks' or 'you don't know what you're talking about', knowing full well that we Brits (most of us) hate and detest what the BliNP stand for and practice, no-one could complain. The BliNP is a violent, racist and criminal party. Most.......yes most of its leadership and much of its support are convicted criminals bent only on commanding some sort of power. I look forward to the day when they are caught out and can be legally banned. Whether it be inciting racial violence, common assault or financial links with 'Loyalist' Irish terrorism. Imagine a similar party in the US with known links to Al Quaeda, posting articles on a daily basis here. I'm fcukin sure that'd be ruled as flame-bait. I'm also sure that few Americans would be so noble as to simply read it and 'ignore' it. Just as in the worst days of the terror the IRA inflicted on us, we must 'negotiate' and be 'decent' while bombs flatten areas like Canary Wharf and hundreds and thousands of us die. This person, and the way he cynically punches up his terrorist-linked party's filth is unacceptable to me, and many others. Tell you what, if he isn't stopped doing his dirt in the way he's doing it, I promise to leave here. I like this site very much but there are others where either his kind are not permitted to work like snakes or can be argued with using as much 'force' as you like. I won't be missed, I'm not that naive to think that, this is only a game, but I won't stay here if he continues to post poisonous shit that in its tiny way assists a terror organisation in my beloved Britain.

Here's an unusual thought: do you know what happens when people don't respond to a thread? It sinks to the bottom. You know what happens when you do? You bump it. It matters not a jot that your bump is a cleverly thought out response. It doesn't matter that you bump with a flame. Whatever you do, you keep the thread going. Not only this but experience shows that attempts to no platform on this forum always backfires. For better or for worse.

Entirely up to you. You can either take control of yourself, or you can allow someone else to push your buttons. Personally, I'm not playing the game.

The problem is getting everybody to cooperate. No matter how many forum veterans swear a solemn oath never to respond to a flamebait post, there will always be newcomers around to post a reply, unless it sinks off the first page so quickly that no one notices.

I seem to remember something similar working with Christofi in the oldern days...

Here's an unusual thought: do you know what happens when people don't respond to a thread? It sinks to the bottom. You know what happens when you do? You bump it. It matters not a jot that your bump is a cleverly thought out response. It doesn't matter that you bump with a flame. Whatever you do, you keep the thread going. Not only this but experience shows that attempts to no platform on this forum always backfires. For better or for worse.

Entirely up to you. You can either take control of yourself, or you can allow someone else to push your buttons. Personally, I'm not playing the game.

The problem is getting everybody to cooperate. No matter how many forum veterans swear a solemn oath never to respond to a flamebait post, there will always be newcomers around to post a reply, unless it sinks off the first page so quickly that no one notices.

I seem to remember something similar working with Christofi in the oldern days...

Perhaps....that was one case where a very public decision was made to ignore an obnoxious flamer. But we didn't really get a chance to test how well it would work in the long run. Christofi was so enraged by the campaign against him that he devoted much of his time to denouncing it, and apparently went too far and earned deletion a few days later.

Perfectly right. But why does anyone use the General? It exists for debate. What you suggest means deliberately not arguing the issues that interest or concern me most.

Yes that's right, that is what I'm suggesting. And I know how tough that is. When I joined NS, I didn't use the forums for about a month. I only started when Parratoga posted the Nazi Party Programme. That was what, December 2002? It's only now after a months of observing how many people would rush not only to her but to many nazi's defence, and attack anti fascists, that I realised. I'm playing the game that they want me to play. I am, as Text People/who gives a dam noted, just keeping the thread going. If I do what a fascist wants me to, I get the sneaking suspion that I'm losing. I don't say this lightly or as one who wants to avoid conflict, or even actually believes that fascists have a right to a platform. I've supported Anti Fascist Action for years now. Its just a question of tactics.

Would you posting articles about the ANL be flamebaiting? Maybe to an AFA supporter! But lame jokes aside, I don't see that propoganda is flamebait. As far as the BNP go, yes, the facts are clear. As I pointed out last year to RL who is also a BNP member, their connections to violent groups like C18 and the criminal records of many leading members is clear. It's also clear that they remain, as they always were, a fascist party.

It's not what's wrong with them, its how they are effectively dealt with. On the forums, an active boycott of their posts is the best way. let them slip up and flame. Let them flood the forum because no one takes the bait. Let them shoot themselves in the foot and be revealed for the nasty little worms that they are.

One more thing. No, you should not leave. I don't see this particular fascist leaving-- you leaving leaves one less anti fascist. Don't leave, organise!

Spherical Objects, if you leave, MS wins. Don't let him and his most detestable BNP get to you.

Ok, this is the last comment I will make on this subject, then I'm simply leaving it alone.

The issue here is not cutting and pasting.

The issue here is that Spherical Objects has been trying to silence me one way or another ever since I started coming here. First he tried to shut me up by constantly flaming me and belittling my political beliefs (which indeed, he still does); that didn't work.

Then he (and others) tried to silence me by saying that promoting a real life political party was against the rules, and the Mods should ban me from doing it. The Mods decided it wasn't against the rules, so that didn't work either.

Then he started trying to ruin each thread I started by posting irrelevant and off-topic comments, insults, etc; merely to draw the whole thing away from its intention and ruin the thread. That hasn't worked, either, although (and, once again, others) are still doing it.

Having failed in all these previous attempts to shut me up, he now latches onto the idea that "cutting and pasting is bad," and that because my news articles are cut-and-pastes, I should be stopped from doing it.

Anyone with half a brain should be able to see that this is simply another attempt by Spherical Objects and his cronies at silencing someone they don't agree with. He talks of "flamebait" and "debate" - all of which are red herrings to draw attention away from the fact that what he is actually doing is attempting to have me censored, because he's taken a personal dislike to me. He will again cry that he's not talking about censorship -- that's EXACTLY what it is, however; he's just going at it from a different angle this time (cutting and pasting).

My posts are not flamebait. They are merely articles of news given from a different perspective, and they are there for anyone who chooses to read them. By the same token, if you object to them and don't want to read them, then don't.

You can bet that if this attempt at shutting me up fails, he'll soon come up with another track. What next? I should be stopped from posting news articles because he once spilled his coffee while he was reading one and it ruined his keyboard? That's what this amounts to. It's simply a desperate attempt at silencing me, by any means possible.

That's all I have to say apart from this:

If the player in question posted his stuff and backed it up with some argument and then stayed and debated in a reasonable manner, not 'bollocks' or 'you don't know what you're talking about'.

Look, all you ever do is insult and belittle my opinions. You even go so far as to keep saying you "can't be bothered" to debate me because "it's not worth it" etc, etc. Cease the hypocrisy.

Ok, this is the last comment I will make on this subject, then I'm simply leaving it alone.

The issue here is not cutting and pasting.

The issue here is that Spherical Objects has been trying to silence me one way or another ever since I started coming here. First he tried to shut me up by constantly flaming me and belittling my political beliefs (which indeed, he still does); that didn't work.

Then he (and others) tried to silence me by saying that promoting a real life political party was against the rules, and the Mods should ban me from doing it. The Mods decided it wasn't against the rules, so that didn't work either.

Then he started trying to ruin each thread I started by posting irrelevant and off-topic comments, insults, etc; merely to draw the whole thing away from its intention and ruin the thread. That hasn't worked, either, although (and, once again, others) are still doing it.

Having failed in all these previous attempts to shut me up, he now latches onto the idea that "cutting and pasting is bad," and that because my news articles are cut-and-pastes, I should be stopped from doing it.

Anyone with half a brain should be able to see that this is simply another attempt by Spherical Objects and his cronies at silencing someone they don't agree with. He talks of "flamebait" and "debate" - all of which are red herrings to draw attention away from the fact that what he is actually doing is attempting to have me censored, because he's taken a personal dislike to me. He will again cry that he's not talking about censorship -- that's EXACTLY what it is, however; he's just going at it from a different angle this time (cutting and pasting).

My posts are not flamebait. They are merely articles of news given from a different perspective, and they are there for anyone who chooses to read them. By the same token, if you object to them and don't want to read them, then don't.

You can bet that if this attempt at shutting me up fails, he'll soon come up with another track. What next? I should be stopped from posting news articles because he once spilled his coffee while he was reading one and it ruined his keyboard? That's what this amounts to. It's simply a desperate attempt at silencing me, by any means possible.

That's all I have to say apart from this:

If the player in question posted his stuff and backed it up with some argument and then stayed and debated in a reasonable manner, not 'bollocks' or 'you don't know what you're talking about'.

Look, all you ever do is insult and belittle my opinions. You even go so far as to keep saying you "can't be bothered" to debate me because "it's not worth it" etc, etc. Cease the hypocrisy.
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Your cut & paste jobs are flame-bait.

Your cut & paste jobs are flame-bait.

Please leave it. The Mods have said it isn't flame bait, so there's no point in arguing it further. That said, if posting articles from the BNP isn't flame bait.. neither is posting ANL articles.

As a side note, if cutting and pasting these articles causes debate.. then surely that's a GOOD thing, after all, if everyone agreed with the same stuff, we'd never get to debate anything!

Your cut & paste jobs are flame-bait.

Please leave it. The Mods have said it isn't flame bait, so there's no point in arguing it further. That said, if posting articles from the BNP isn't flame bait.. neither is posting ANL articles.

As a side note, if cutting and pasting these articles causes debate.. then surely that's a GOOD thing, after all, if everyone agreed with the same stuff, we'd never get to debate anything!
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I accept that. What I'm objecting to is that he pastes up long articles (often several a night on 'different' subjects, but all intended to incite racial hatred), direct from the BliNP site and says nothing. He then dips back in after people question him or argue the racist points, and rarely if ever debates, merely provoking more responses. If he pasted the stuff up and then put his own views (these pastes take ages to wade through) and continued to debate, I'd have no complaint about his 'style'. His latest fiasco, the one that I, admittedly, reacted a bit too heavily to, was supposedly about the 'green' policies of the BliNP. He has refused to state any views of his own. I accept the ruling that it is not strictly flame-bait, but I'm sorry, I dissagree. He knows exactly what he's doing but just like the BliNP that he is a member of, he winds people up and then pretends that he doesn't understand their responses. But thanks to you, and a few others, for some thoughtful replies. And yes, I'm glad I'm not a Mod, I wouldn't do it for good money, let alone as a service.

Not to prolong this argument but I believe starting a thread and not responding to it was considered an offence.

The recent thread started by Mongoose Spatula about the BNP had him/her/it contribute for a short while and then disappear.

If the thread deals with a controversial topic such as the BNP and the environment, isn't it the responsibility of the author to remain on-line to deal with counter-arguments to his/her/its statements.

I think one of the moderators ruled on this in a previous thread sometime ago.

The issue here is not cutting and pasting.
That is one of the issues here, and it is the one I am concerned with.
...
Having failed in all these previous attempts to shut me up, he now latches onto the idea that "cutting and pasting is bad," and that because my news articles are cut-and-pastes, I should be stopped from doing it.
Ad homenim. "cutting and pasting is bad" is a position whose validity is independent of who is proposing it. In other words, Sperical Object's motivation for asserting "cutting and pasting is bad" is utterly irrelevant to whether cutting and pasting is in fact bad.
Anyone with half a brain should be able to see that this is simply another attempt by Spherical Objects and his cronies at silencing someone they don't agree with.
I can't speak for Spherical Objects, but in my own defense (I daresay you consider me a crony), it is not an attempt by me to silence you, it is an attempt by me to prevent you and anyone else from excessive cut-and-pasting. I would indeed very much like you specifically to be silent, but you have been granted the privilege of posting your views by the owner of this board, and I fully support the owners doing so. What I want to see the mods do is not silence you, but to rule against excessive cut-and-pasting so you do not do that in the future, and Schorgenland does not do that in the future, and The Red Arrow does not do that in the future, and noone else does that in the future either.
He talks of "flamebait" and "debate" - all of which are red herrings to draw attention away from the fact that what he is actually doing is attempting to have me censored, because he's taken a personal dislike to me. He will again cry that he's not talking about censorship -- that's EXACTLY what it is, however; he's just going at it from a different angle this time (cutting and pasting).
There's that ad homenim again. Perhaps Spherical Objects is doing this, perhaps not, he can defend himself. You are trying to distract us from the issue of cut-and-pasting. And that is the issue I am interested in here, and moderation seems the appropriate forum to discuss it.

Here's an unusual thought: do you know what happens when people don't respond to a thread? It sinks to the bottom. You know what happens when you do? You bump it.
Yes, I know :-(. I try to post to threads only when they're "hot".
It matters not a jot that your bump is a cleverly thought out response.
Here I disagree. Mongoose Spatula is putting forth a politics and a worldview I disagree strongly with. I feel it is important that people who read the articles he posts also read criticisms of the articles, so that they know in which ways they are wrong, and are not swayed.
It doesn't matter that you bump with a flame. Whatever you do, you keep the thread going. Not only this but experience shows that attempts to no platform on this forum always backfires.
I'm not sure what you said in that last sentence. Mongoose Spatula is not a troll, He's not here to get responses, he's here to promote his point of view. He's not going to go away if he doesn't get much response; he's just going to keep cut-and-pasting and keeping the BNP articles visible.

For better or for worse.

Entirely up to you. You can either take control of yourself, or you can allow someone else to push your buttons. Personally, I'm not playing the game.
Which is probably why the "antis" have taking to starting threads of their own. But even if the game is Mongoose Spatula's I feel I still can help my "side" by posting.

Regarding the linking to or quoting of real-life political party material, as long as it is done in a manner conductive to debate, there should be no problem. If it is done in a manner which constitutes trolling or spamming, that is another matter, but we can decide whether this is the case only if we are given specific examples to consider.
What the Red Arrow and Mongoose Spatula are doing is advertizing, and like much advertizing it is spammish. It is not clear-cut spam like the crapflooding the forum occasionally gets, but it is none the less antisocial behaviour that reduces the quality of the forum.

Regarding the copying and pasting of controversial subject matter and then not returning to post in the thread, effectively leaving behind the possibility of a flame war, that is something which I personally consider to be antisocial behaviour, and everyone would do well to be careful about doing it too often. It is a matter of common sense and courtesy, after all.
Yup. If the poster doesn't even have the courtesy to bother defending there posts, I start getting really annoyed.

And now, I will ask everyone to take their political differences back to the General Forum, and return only if they can link me to something relatively recent which in all probability does break the rules. Because I do not have the time to go through an extensive post history on the off chance that an individual was less than polite a couple of weeks ago.
Yeah, I guess my concerns would have more force if I linked to concrete examples. I'll start collecting examples in my copious free time. I'm looking for a general rule to be set (posters should respond to criticisms of acticles they cut-and-paste is a very good start), but I suppose the only way that's going to happen is with precidents.

If the thread deals with a controversial topic such as the BNP and the environment, isn't it the responsibility of the author to remain on-line to deal with counter-arguments to his/her/its statements.

Some of us have actual lives to lead as well as spending time on this website. We can't always sit online all night and respond to each and every comment.

I can't speak for Spherical Objects, but in my own defense (I daresay you consider me a crony), it is not an attempt by me to silence you, it is an attempt by me to prevent you and anyone else from excessive cut-and-pasting.

Excessive being the key word. Since, at most, I usually only post one or two articles a night, and much of the time none for several days at a stretch, my cut and pastes are hardly "excessive."

Thus, you have no real problem here at all.

Excessive being the key word. Since, at most, I usually only post one or two articles a night, and much of the time none for several days at a stretch, my cut and pastes are hardly "excessive."
It seemed a bit much to me, but it's not my call.

I'm going to take Tactical Grace's hint and sometime this week survey the posts last week of the biggest cut-and-pasters (if the server cooperates). I won't be asking for sanctions, rather for a rule change/clarification.

perhaps it's my own career bias, but I would love to see all "cut and paste" posts include a reference/credit to the source of the material. I'm not advocating a rule, so much as I am advocating "gentle encouragement". To me, it's a matter of intellectual and academic integrity that whenever I use someone elses words, I clearly identify them as such. While many of can easily spot posts that are clearly cut and pasted, not everyone can. I'm not suggesting that uncredited material is deliberately duplicitous, but it can be unintentionally so.....

I'd like to point out that Tactical Grace never ruled that straight cut/paste jobs were legal - he made the case that such threads might not be flamebait and as we were not given specific links, there is nothing we can do.

In fact, Tactical Grace even promised to look into reports of such actions appearing to be flamebait.

I'd like to point out that Tactical Grace never ruled that straight cut/paste jobs were legal - he made the case that such threads might not be flamebait and as we were not given specific links, there is nothing we can do.

In fact, Tactical Grace even promised to look into reports of such actions appearing to be flamebait.

Which roughly translates as:

Stop going on about principals and post links to examples of what you call flamebait, so that the mods can investigate.
MS: you've accused several people here of flaming your political threads... so post the links to those posts if you stand by your remarks.