NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok here the deal. My nation, PD Byzantium got deleted this morning. I have an idea why. Yes yesterday i did take byzantiums delegacy, locked the region, and ejected everybody. This appears to be a greiffing, but in fatc it is not. Byznaitum was a territory of The Roman Empire. its ruler rebelled, then we got him out of their. Byzantiums senate was aloud to remian in the empire, i sugeetsed giving it a fouder, and WITH THE CONSENT OF THE BYZANTIUM SENATE I was alloud to take the foundership.
This wasnot a greif, i am a general, but i do not greif, I seze and annex. THis was not a seize and annex operation. This was getting a region a founder, with the people's consenst. I woudl like my nation rebirthed immediately.

Also let me menchen you have interfeered with a delecate operation. This operation has taken a while to sort out, and get timing right, to avoid contact withe certain, hostiles (not located in byzantium by the way).

The way I read it, no matter why you did it throwing everyone out and locking the region is still griefing, it is very unlikely that the mods will bring your nation back.

My understanding of the rules:

Not being allowed to eject all natives from a region is against game rules. No in-game authority (neither the natives or some political body which claims to be speaking on behalf of them) can in any way overrule game rules.

If the natives agreed to leave Byzantium for it to be re-created, they should have done so by themselves by simply leaving the region.

Ballotonia

My understanding of the rules:

Not being allowed to eject all natives from a region is against game rules. No in-game authority (neither the natives or some political body which claims to be speaking on behalf of them) can in any way overrule game rules.

If the natives agreed to leave Byzantium for it to be re-created, they should have done so by themselves by simply leaving the region.

Ballotonia

Ballotonia: The first sentence should read "Ejecting all natives from a region is against game rules." Aside from that error, your post is correct.

PD Byzantium/PD Gaul: I don't care which empire you're a part of, you violated NationStates rules. When it comes to game rules, no ordinary player may grant you the authority to override NationStates rules; you may not invade a region and kick everyone out.

You were caught breaking the rules of this game. Your nation will not be resurrected.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

Ballotonia: The first sentence should read "Ejecting all natives from a region is against game rules." Aside from that error, your post is correct.

DOH! :oops:

I intended to write:
Not being allowed to eject all natives from a region is part of game rules.

Sorry for confusing the issue.

Ballotonia

Hm, i love the way people don;t read things.
I did not invade byzantium. Byzantium is a member of an alliance with us, and agreed to this foundership item. Even if a byzantine had done this, locked the region, and ejected everybody, you'd do the same. How can you assume the nation in this hypethical instance is not an invader? I understand your reasoning at the time, it appeared as a greif, i told you what happened, i do not understnad your reasoning now. I am going to get a member of byzantium to speak on behalf of me.

I was going above the rules you say.The orginal intention of this rule, in my opinon if not the acutall fact, was to protect regions from UN groups out to delete, and permanitly do away with regions. This ruling is against the original intention of the rule. (the word rule=law in real world situations by the way, but i do not want to get into the real world law)
My actions, and decisions made by the RAID allaince, and Byzantium together, should not have gotten my nation deleted. The orginal intentions of the rules of greifing should be respected. I shall not settle for what you have just said. Please, feel free to indulge your opinion further.

Booting all nations in a region is a rule violation for both invader and resident delegates alike.

Your "yesterday i did take byzantiums delegacy" and stating you're a General who does 'seize and annex' made it sound like you walked in there with a few friends to take the delegacy. Your current additional post makes it even more clear that you are not a Byzantine resident. As such, the rules regard you to be an invader.

Please realize that the rules do not account for player-invented terms such as General, Senate, Roman Empire, 'seize and annex', etc... It is your responsibility to limit whatever you do to what lies within the rules of the game.

Ballotonia

Let me rephrase a few things, i know you the rules and such don;t accoutn for those names,my apologies, eh, to many characters to talk in. The ruling body, people, nations, what ever you wish to call them, agreed to a Roman founder, which i was voted.
For document eveidence of this, go to this adress:
http://s3.invisionfree.com/tre_forums/index.php?showtopic=28&st=0&#last

To sum it up, they agreed to have us founder if they coudl have UN delegate. Seize and annex: take the region, make it a member of RAID, not destroy. This was not that kind of situtaion. It was, in a sence, "volantary ejection". They agreed to it, i did it.
Am i citzen of byzantium? PD Byzanium was not, but another nation of mine was/is Armed Raiders, whcih recided in a different region for this operation.
"walked in with a couple of freinds? 1 roman nation endorsed me. didn't take more sence all the nations in there wil be gone do inactivity in a couple of days. Didn;t need more, since they agrreed to have me do this job. So by majority vote of our combined people, they agreed to it, i took action. If even still this is considerred a greif, well so be it. A reveiw of this games policies and restriction shoudl take place. For in things such as this, no harm is done, and a common good is attained. I am not saying though, i consider this to be a greif.
hm, i thank you for you input Ballatonia, could i have a moderators opinion too, after now explaining myself in even more detail.

could i have a moderators opinion too, after now explaining myself in even more detail.
You already have one.

You were caught breaking the rules of this game. Your nation will not be resurrected.
Any nation can give themselves a "Voluntary ejection" by simply clicking a link to change regions. Had the other members wished for you to take over, it would have been simple for them to leave and you to move in. Totally legal. That didn't happen.

If you want to wait around and keep this topic alive courting another mod's opinion, I certainly can't stop you. I think your case is no stronger than it was before, so it seems rather pointless to keep it going.

PD- I know this is frustrating but take it from me, it's not worth antagonizing people in public over what looks to be a lost cause :?

could i have a moderators opinion too, after now explaining myself in even more detail.
You already have one.

You were caught breaking the rules of this game. Your nation will not be resurrected.
Any nation can give themselves a "Voluntary ejection" by simply clicking a link to change regions. Had the other members wished for you to take over, it would have been simple for them to leave and you to move in. Totally legal. That didn't happen.

Correct. If this was voluntary, then the residents should have left of their own accord without being ejected.

Let me reiterate this: We mods don't recognize interregional alliances. When it comes to judging regional griefings, only the natives of the region count.

For document eveidence of this, go to this adress:
http://s3.invisionfree.com/tre_forums/index.php?showtopic=28&st=0last


Irrelevant. Players may not override NationStates rules.

It was, in a sence, "volantary ejection".

As far as NationStates rules are concerned, this doesn't exist.

So by majority vote of our combined people, they agreed to it, i took action.

Incorrect. If they had agreed, then they would have evacuated.

hm, i thank you for you input Ballatonia, could i have a moderators opinion too, after now explaining myself in even more detail.

Now I will explain myself in more detail: You were not a native of "Byzantium". Therefore, you don't count.

The nations deleted in this incident will not be resurrected.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

...This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Let's see... GD is complaining about losing their country, but, in fact, it was deleted for obvious reasons, to which he has indirectly confessed. His stupid country was deleted because he was in violation of the rules, and now he's whining about it?! -.-; what a loser.

...This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Let's see... GD is complaining about losing their country, but, in fact, it was deleted for obvious reasons, to which he has indirectly confessed. His stupid country was deleted because he was in violation of the rules, and now he's whining about it?! -.-; what a loser.

I agree. When will deleted nations, for the most part, just give up their crusades to be martyrs in resurrecting a nation?

:( Hey guys you mean we can't invade a country?

:( Hey guys you mean we can't invade a country?
You can invade, as long as you abide by the rules. The rules are readily available, but I can't think exactly where right now. The reason why this particular invasion was illegal was that it broke the rules, regardless of the presumed authority of the invader.

you mean this? (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=109397)

you mean this? (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=109397)
Bingo. That very thread would be the place to start, far as I can tell.

So....other than reviving a nation that has gone inactive..

When has any deleted nation been brought back?

"what a loser"
There is no need to attack ones character, so sorry sob :D

Well, i can see your veiw is quite narrow, looking at assumptions and bluntness of the situation. because of this inpedament, you can not see the truth. 2 nations nationswere injusicely deleted, 1 i don't knwo why, i did the requested ejecting. So your veiws so simple, unable to look at the whole picture, i can not see how you woudl agree to it. A seriouse flaw is present, and aparently shall not be remedeed. PD Byznatium, and the Third Roman Empire, to wrongfully lost nations. A shame it had to end this way, and a shame you can not see the truth.
Sincereely,
PD Gaul
Armed Raiders
New PD Byzantium
The Gatilion
PD Carthago
PD Nation
Nova Romana.
And countless others who true identity will never be released.

Well, i can see your veiw is quite narrow, looking at assumptions and bluntness of the situation. because of this inpedament, you can not see the truth. 2 nations nationswere injusicely deleted, 1 i don't knwo why, i did the requested ejecting. So your veiws so simple, unable to look at the whole picture, i can not see how you woudl agree to it. A seriouse flaw is present, and aparently shall not be remedeed. PD Byznatium, and the Third Roman Empire, to wrongfully lost nations. A shame it had to end this way, and a shame you can not see the truth.

The shame is that you cannot recognize what everyone here has stated: you broke the game rules. It is not a matter of anyone else's view being too narrow: it is that you think you are correct because you did it.

what a loser.

Please refrain frominsulting the rulebreakers.

Regardless of whether or not it's true, saying so tends to be counterproductive to maintaining order around here.

Well, i can see your veiw is quite narrow, looking at assumptions and bluntness of the situation. because of this inpedament, you can not see the truth. 2 nations nationswere injusicely deleted, 1 i don't knwo why, i did the requested ejecting. So your veiws so simple, unable to look at the whole picture, i can not see how you woudl agree to it. A seriouse flaw is present, and aparently shall not be remedeed. PD Byznatium, and the Third Roman Empire, to wrongfully lost nations. A shame it had to end this way, and a shame you can not see the truth.

The shame is that you cannot recognize what everyone here has stated: you broke the game rules. It is not a matter of anyone else's view being too narrow: it is that you think you are correct because you did it.

Indeed.

As I see no productive use for this topic, iLock.

Those who feel that I have not fairly handled this situation may file an appeal at admin@nationstates.net

As Admin tends to be quite busy, don't expect a fast reply.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator