NationStates Jolt Archive

We need stricter controls regarding the posting of Spam in the form of regional Advertisments in the Pacific regions (Pacific, East Pacific, West Pacific, South Pacific and North Pacific and the RR) the posts are annoying and disruptive, and amount to no less than Telemarketing only you cannot hang up, youhave to wait for the message to cycle off of the regional board. The Pacifics are already handicapped in the lack of Founders and the ability to lock the region to keep existing nations moving in.
We Need some way to deal with this scourge. Whether a ban on regional ads or the ability of Delegates to silence Rampant Spammers preemptivly before they can come back and commit their crime again, preferably by taking their voice away so that they cannot post in the region, this would of course be an ability that the mods could easily override.

any further ideas are of course welcome,

The message boards in all of these regions move far too fast for these messages to get through to who they are intended for, so these posts only amount to Spam, nothing more.

A ruling to have the said advertisements be considered region greifing would help end them as such an action would be made illegal. I, too, dislike the advertisements that take place in the Pacifics but until a moderator or administrator declares it against the rules then what can be done?

Move to a user-created region?

As far as I understand things, the pacifics were never intended as a place to hang out forever. It's the starting point from where one discovers the rest of the NationStates world, not a safe cocoon to sit in indefinitely.

Ballotonia

The Pacifics have every bit as much merit as a so called "user created" region. If it's our choice to stay there and become an active part of the region, you have no business telling us we shouldn't.

I have to completely agree with loop about the spam. We can be having a great discussion, and suddenly a recruiting post will pop up out of nowhere. On any random glance at any mega region's boards, there will be as many as six recruiting posts floating around.

It should be also noted that recruiting by telegram is far more effective and successful than stupid annoying posts on the Civil HQs. Making this illegal might not shut it down completely, but at least it would make a dent in this frustrating policy.

As annoying as they may seem, I think regional recruiting advertisements are appropriate for the feeder regions. This is where the newer nations are born. They should be given an opportunity to see where else they want to live. Yes, I know there are other places that advertisements can be posted, but new nations don't always know where to look. Besides, regional recruiting messages can reduce the amount of t-gram spam, which I find much more annoying than the recruiting messages on the civil hqs.

Perhaps the messages should be standardized. I've seen some which were quite elaborate and others that were short and to the point. Clearly, the shorter messages are more tolerable.

I have recently posted in a site where they have indeed gone totally nazy on the moderation standpoint.

The mods in said forum (which shall remain nameless) are total idiots and are very rude. The truth is, when people are given power, they go hog-wild and exercise that power. Who's to say if something is spam or not?

I think that Nationstates has the best fora that I have ever posted in. True, I do get annoyed some times with people posting kinda off-topic, but that is what free speech is all about.

Vive Nationstates! :-D

As annoying as they may seem, I think regional recruiting advertisements are appropriate for the feeder regions. This is where the newer nations are born. They should be given an opportunity to see where else they want to live. Of course. This is why I don't complain about the enormous number of telegrams to my UN nation living in a feeder. Heck, I send them out for my own region.

Yes, I know there are other places that advertisements can be posted, but new nations don't always know where to look. Besides, regional recruiting messages can reduce the amount of t-gram spam, which I find much more annoying than the recruiting messages on the civil hqs. *shrugs* They don't reduce that amount at all. Those who post only on regional messageboards would stop, those who do both would still do telegrams, and those who just do telegrams wouldn't change. I personally think the telegrams are interesting (most of the time).

Perhaps the messages should be standardized. I've seen some which were quite elaborate and others that were short and to the point. Clearly, the shorter messages are more tolerable. That's funny. Then what would be the point at all? Recruitment messages are all about drawing people to your region b/c it's better and different than everybody else's.

Perhaps the messages should be standardized. I've seen some which were quite elaborate and others that were short and to the point. Clearly, the shorter messages are more tolerable.

*chuckles*

Personally, I much rather have a long message that explicitly says what a region is about than get a msg that says: "My new region x roxxor you should join now it's cool".

The length and complexity and types of messages really tell you a lot about the region, perhaps more even than the actual content of the telgegram. Eliminating diverse means of regional recruiting would eliminate the diverse and varied signals that a new nation can read and understand in order to make an informed choice about which region to choose for a new home, temporary or permanent (as permanent as things are here).

Move to a user-created region?

As far as I understand things, the pacifics were never intended as a place to hang out forever. It's the starting point from where one discovers the rest of the NationStates world, not a safe cocoon to sit in indefinitely.

Ballotonia

I know and I have heard. But I am a long term resident in the South Pacific and, along with my fellow long time spers and cabinet members, am now providing a service to the game.
What about us? i voted yes on the proposition but i don't think it can or will be enforced. it has been made clear to us over many many months that the pacifics will sit as they are, with little moderator intervention. It's a good idea loop but i don't think you'll get a positive response.

Sal did once tell me that regional advertising is banned. At least in player-created regions.
I'm not sure about the feeder regions, though.

they're allowed to in the feeders. and terribly annoying it is.

A bit late, but my opinion is that unless it is a founded region whose sole purpose is a place for nations looking for a region to go (I've seen a grand total of 1 of these), all regional adverts on boards hould be banned, and invites of nations to regions should only be permitted to nations who have make it public that they are looking for a region.

is it allowed in Lazarus? i'm curious about that, as one of my puppets is there.

I believe Lazarus is considered a feeder region since nations brought back from the dead are started there.

I believe Lazarus is considered a feeder region since nations brought back from the dead are started there.

Lazarus isn't a feeder region.

It isnt but I do beleive it technically counts as a feeder region, However, since it has a Founder, according to my interpretation of the Rules,
Ads are banned in lazarus.

Lazarus isn't a feeder region.
So ads are banned then? :D

Yes, and in the RR.

ON EDIT: I am responding to the original post - IMHO regional recruitment should be banned in the Pacifics and in the RR.

I don't think they are. I'm almost positive that the regions in which advertisements are allowed are the five pacifics, the RR, and Lazarus. In fact, I even think that they are allowed in player created regions when there is no disclaimer asking people not to solicit in the WFE.

I hate this policy and wish it were changed. It's ever so much more efficient to recruit by telegrams anyway, and the regional boards ought to be a discussion by and for regional members, not some region hoppers who serve only to annoy natives.


Edit: wow, my 400th post and I didn't even notice. Go me :roll:

I hate this policy and wish it were changed. It's ever so much more efficient to recruit by telegrams anyway, and the regional boards ought to be a discussion by and for regional members, not some region hoppers who serve only to annoy natives.

I totally agree with Unfree People on his above quote.
There should be an advertising slot where each and every nation who wishes to broadcast their wares can go to, thus leaving the regional message boards free of all the spam etc. etc. that is posted there from these so called recruiters. A lot of the griefing is caused by first timers who instantly set up their own region and then go around all the other regions blagging for members and endorsements. This is all wrong and rules should be passed and enforced that they should have at least a 50 million population before they even think of going down this road. But of course it probably will not happen unless someone puts it up as a un resolution., which come to think about it, is not a bad idea and it would also be feasible to put up a resolution for an advertising slot as well.

...rules should be passed and enforced that they should have at least a 50 million population...

... it would also be feasible to put up a resolution for an advertising slot as well.
Both of these are games mechanics changes, and those suggestions belongs in Technical, not the UN. If you post them as resolutions they'll just get deleted by the overworked UN mods, so try Techncial first, please.

I don't think they are. I'm almost positive that the regions in which advertisements are allowed are the five pacifics, the RR, and Lazarus. In fact, I even think that they are allowed in player created regions when there is no disclaimer asking people not to solicit in the WFE.
THis is just heresay, but somebody told me that Salusa said it was illegal, and Drop of Honey is one of Hack's puppets, and he implied that recruitment ads are illegal in Lazarus.

I have heard three rulings on the player regions.

-Sal says that they are banned with permission of founder or delegate.
-Neut says that they are banned in player regions period.
-Steph says that they are officially banned, but if the regions they recruit in are lacking "no recruitment" tags, they will usually not prosecute the first time.

I don't think they are. I'm almost positive that the regions in which advertisements are allowed are the five pacifics, the RR, and Lazarus. In fact, I even think that they are allowed in player created regions when there is no disclaimer asking people not to solicit in the WFE.
THis is just heresay, but somebody told me that Salusa said it was illegal, and Drop of Honey is one of Hack's puppets, and he implied that recruitment ads are illegal in Lazarus.

I have heard three rulings on the player regions.

-Sal says that they are banned with permission of founder or delegate.
-Neut says that they are banned in player regions period.
-Steph says that they are officially banned, but if the regions they recruit in are lacking "no recruitment" tags, they will usually not prosecute the first time.

The rulings so far have stated that advertising in the feeders is Legal once a day or less frequently. Simply because traffic is so high, this does not disrupt the regional happenings.

Players can not use multi acts to multi spam the feeder, one per day per player. Also, if a group of players were to all post the same one message together, it would be spam.

Occasional adverts are not, as of yet, illegal in the feeders.

Not a mod, but I am a rule-enthusiast.

Occasional adverts are not, as of yet, illegal in the feeders.
Which is what this thread is(or was) trying to change, although it has evolved into a debate as to whether they are lgal in Lazarus, whic Hack says is not a feeder.

I agree, Qaaol, there seems to be an inconsistancy here. What I'm trying to say is it would be really nice if this could be solved by simply saying "no recruitment message allowed, period." These region hoppers truly are disruptive to the regions themselves.

C--Span: This IS highly disruptive. At this very moment, there are 19 regional advertisements among the feeders/sinks, with 12 messages stating the players' irritation over the spam. With only 60 total messages (5 Pacifics, RR), this is a huge chunk of the regional activity that is devoted to these spammings: 31 messages in all, more than half of the total capacity. It really ought to be stopped.



PS... HANGING JUDGE, I'm a 'she' ;)

I would appreciate it if the mods did more to enforce the rules of not advertising in player-created regions.
Europe is constantly plagued by advertisers, and most of them are repeat offenders.
Naturally, puppets are often used for advertising, so I think the mods should delete the offending puppet and issue an official warning to the puppetmaster.
This would certainly crack down on region-whoring.

There are semi-advertisers who just hop from their home region to another region, and then hop back. This leaves a link on the regional happenings thing for curious nations to check out, and doesn't disrupt or annoy the nations already in the region. This is a much better method for people who want to advertise their regions to use.

Occasional adverts are not, as of yet, illegal in the feeders.
Which is what this thread is(or was) trying to change, although it has evolved into a debate as to whether they are lgal in Lazarus, whic Hack says is not a feeder.

Sorry, read beg and end, didn't see where it turned.

Since the reg page of Laz is likely pretty dead :roll: this makes since, it would effect whatever disucssion takes place.

Even though Lazarus was never intended as a place to hang out, neither where the Pacifics. It should be preserved in a way protecting the messages and active nations in that region.

Sorry for being dense earlier-- misunderstood what I thought understood was the current topic in this thread. I'm doing much better now though, believe it or not.

Okay, from what I remember of the advertisements...

It's allowed in the Pacifics, no question on that. They're feeders.

It's allowed in the Rejected Realms. While the RR isn't a feeder, it has been determined to be allowable, largely because ejected nations may be looking for new regions.

It's not allowed in Lazarus. By and large there's only three types of nations in Lazarus: 1) Ressurected nations who plan to leave quite soon, usually for their old region. 2) Puppets of Mods and players who are scoping the place out. 3) Ressurected nations that are already forgotten and will be auto-deleting again. By and large, nobody in Lazarus is looking for regions, and there's really no need for them there. As described on the boards, Lazarus is a very large, but largely inactive region.

To Myrth, and other members of large, non-passworded regions: we would crack down on spam more often, we really would. We'd even crack down in the Pacifics and the Rejected Realms. Unfortunately, regional events tend to turn over so quickly that by the time someone checks it out, there's no evidence left. We can't act on no evidence.

Would screenshots be acceptable?

Would screenshots be acceptable?

They'd certainly help. Not perfect, but helpful.

Thanks for the clarification, Hack, and while it's officially allowed in the Pacifics, that's what this thread is asking to stop. If we could at least tell these spammers that regional advertising is illegal, it might help somewhat, even before mod intervention.

Thanks for the clarification, Hack, and while it's officially allowed in the Pacifics, that's what this thread is asking to stop. If we could at least tell these spammers that regional advertising is illegal, it might help somewhat, even before mod intervention.

i'm not sure I understand, sorry. Why should they be warned if what they are doing is legal?

Sorry... um, according to my understanding of loop's first post in here, what I'm trying to argue is that it shouldn't be legal. I think the thread turned into a discussion of what is legal, from there.

To Myrth, and other members of large, non-passworded regions: we would crack down on spam more often, we really would. We'd even crack down in the Pacifics and the Rejected Realms. Unfortunately, regional events tend to turn over so quickly that by the time someone checks it out, there's no evidence left. We can't act on no evidence.

Given the time limitation, is it acceptable to report these things in this forum?

By and large there's only three types of nations in Lazarus: 1) Ressurected nations who plan to leave quite soon, usually for their old region. 2) Puppets of Mods and players who are scoping the place out. 3) Ressurected nations that are already forgotten and will be auto-deleting again. By and large, nobody in Lazarus is looking for regions, and there's really no need for them there. As described on the boards, Lazarus is a very large, but largely inactive region.
Huh, funny. That is almost exactly the same arguement that I used under Zab, although I split mod and player puppets.

I guess that great minds really do think alike. :twisted:

At any rate, thanks Hack. Could whichever mod controls Testlandia stick a "NO RECRUITERS" tag into the factbook anywhen?

By and large there's only three types of nations in Lazarus: 1) Ressurected nations who plan to leave quite soon, usually for their old region. 2) Puppets of Mods and players who are scoping the place out. 3) Ressurected nations that are already forgotten and will be auto-deleting again. By and large, nobody in Lazarus is looking for regions, and there's really no need for them there. As described on the boards, Lazarus is a very large, but largely inactive region.
Huh, funny. That is almost exactly the same arguement that I used under Zab, although I split mod and player puppets.

I guess that great minds really do think alike. :twisted:

At any rate, thanks Hack. Could whichever mod controls Testlandia stick a "NO RECRUITERS" tag into the factbook anywhen?

Ok Here is an Idea, this will aid the Pacifics and cut down on traffic in a manner.

You can only post in one Pacific per day, and must remain in the region you posted in for at least 24 hours, and your region can only advertise in one Pacific per 24 hour period.

SO Moderators is this acceptable.
I only ask this because well, sure the pacifics are Breeder regions but we have our dignity.

(suggestion Bolded for your shopping convenience)

That'll be roughly impossible to enforce.

an active delegate could enforce it

an active delegate could enforce it

an active delegate could enforce it


A very active delegate might be able to do but you would have to log in about five times a day, and most board spammers don't stay in a pacific they go to

All the Pacifics

The Rejected Realms

And Back to "World Will Fall" or something

an active delegate could enforce it


A very active delegate might be able to do but you would have to log in about five times a day, and most board spammers don't stay in a pacific they go to

All the Pacifics

The Rejected Realms

And Back to "World Will Fall" or something

I am a very active Delegate.

also I would like to ask If we cannot keep them out can we at least limit the size of their posts to say 1 paragraph?
I have one person in particular who is coming in daily and posting a 4 and 5 paragraph spamvertisment.

I have one person in particular who is coming in daily and posting a 4 and 5 paragraph spamvertisment.
Are you talking aboout For All?

He does it much more than once per day (one time he was doing it about evert 4 hours), but I have only caught him in time to request mod verification once, and I didn't get it. :x :evil:

Qaa if he is posting in your region youcan definitly ask for a mod action,

no the one Im talking about is not him but a certain person who isnt able to acccess the forums, I am reticent about mentioning her name here before a Mod has spoken, so please no guessing anyone.

Qaa if he is posting in your region youcan definitly ask for a mod action,

no the one Im talking about is not him but a certain person who isnt able to acccess the forums, I am reticent about mentioning her name here before a Mod has spoken, so please no guessing anyone.
No. I'm just annoyed because he blongs to a region that I'm sure must have at least one ring of multis in it, yet Sirocco only found one.

Well that and, I hate it when people use unethical, illegal, disruptive, or manipulative methods of recruiting. I've found that it is up there on my list of irrational hatreds with pretending to be a mod, asking my main nation to join their region (If I'm the founder {and delegate at the time that most of these telegrams were sent} of a growing region with active members then no, I likely do not want to join you region.), people who try to recruit the founders of regions with other nations in them, asking to be a mod if you are a day old n00b who just posted spam and flamebait, large regions who recruit from smaller regions which do not go recruiting from other regions themselves, the confuseing of region hawking with region nabbing and region snatching, defenders insisting that they are not invader when I reffer to both groups as "crashers" (I know, I'm using "crasher" as an over-category), reduntant questions, posting a question which is clearly answered by a sticky or announcement at the top of the forum. . . -- well the list goes on for quite a while, I'm irrational and have a bad temper to boot.

At any rate, Cor has been bugging you you FPA ads? :shock:

not FPA, but has been putting up big ol ads in the EP for that young world or whatnot place, I have had folks alk me to report her, I asked her to please cut teh ad down to a single paragraph, and she sent me a nice flame.

sad considering I was one of the folks trying to help her a while back.

Qaa if he is posting in your region youcan definitly ask for a mod action,

no the one Im talking about is not him but a certain person who isnt able to acccess the forums, I am reticent about mentioning her name here before a Mod has spoken, so please no guessing anyone.
No. I'm just annoyed because he blongs to a region that I'm sure must have at least one ring of multis in it, yet Sirocco only found one.

Well that and, I hate it when people use unethical, illegal, disruptive, or manipulative methods of recruiting. I've found that it is up there on my list of irrational hatreds with pretending to be a mod, asking my main nation to join their region (If I'm the founder {and delegate at the time that most of these telegrams were sent} of a growing region with active members then no, I likely do not want to join you region.), people who try to recruit the founders of regions with other nations in them, asking to be a mod if you are a day old n00b who just posted spam and flamebait, large regions who recruit from smaller regions which do not go recruiting from other regions themselves, the confuseing of region hawking with region nabbing and region snatching, defenders insisting that they are not invader when I reffer to both groups as "crashers" (I know, I'm using "crasher" as an over-category), reduntant questions, posting a question which is clearly answered by a sticky or announcement at the top of the forum. . . -- well the list goes on for quite a while, I'm irrational and have a bad temper to boot.

At any rate, Cor has been bugging you you FPA ads? :shock:



Which region is that?

not FPA, but has been putting up big ol ads in the EP for that young world or whatnot place, I have had folks alk me to report her, I asked her to please cut teh ad down to a single paragraph, and she sent me a nice flame.

sad considering I was one of the folks trying to help her a while back.
Ahh.

Oh drat!

I forgot about my puppet in The Yong world for a few months. :evil: