racism in nation states
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The Basenji
27-12-2003, 01:27
I smell a puppeteer.
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Rejistania
27-12-2003, 01:32
I smell a puppeteer.Agree! This nations appered once in exactly the same order!
The Basenji
27-12-2003, 01:34
I smell a puppeteer.Agree! This nations appered once in exactly the same order!
All have few posts as well. Gees, could one make it more obvious?
Hmm... I'm rather torn on this issue. Mainly, this's because I know that even if people were to vote to have racist views deleted, it's not an official poll and therefore won't change the way the forums are run. Besides, it's impossible, on a forum where people have the capability to say whatever they feel like, to prevent people from ever making public their racist views. Without installing filters, which even if possible would banjax the forum software, it wouldn't be feasible.
None the less, it's impossible to be entirely tolerant, no matter how hard you try. Even if you tolerate the intolerant, you're essentially condoning their hatred through a lack of action against their statements. To stand up for peoples' right to flame people from other cultural backgrounds or because their physical make-up is slightly different gives them the feeling that holding these views is ok, and thus the views themselves are fine. Which is a load of bull's. Indirectly, you're encouraging intolerance by being 100% tolerant of the intolerant.
Guh... I said the word "tolerant" far too many times in that last paragraph.
Anyway, the closest you can get to perfect acceptance is to reject that which doesn't accept. That way, you don't reject everything that the rejection rejects... if you get what I mean.
... Ok, this is getting really long-winded so I'll cut it short; the best way to create a freedom of expression is to disencourage people from holding views that work against that freedom and equality. This might involve people expressing those views so that they can be challenged, so you're not denying them the right of expression. These individuals, however, cannot be allowed to infringe on the rights and freedoms of the other users, and must be made aware that their right to speech is just as valid as every other right of the other races and members of this forum.
So, expression is fine. Arguing in favour of their views is fine. But doing either of those (or indeed anything else) in an offensive, intentionally hurtful or openly hostile manner will essentially make void their right to make their views public. As should be the case with all moderation.
*Drops 2 cents in hat*
Cogitation
27-12-2003, 01:57
This is a discussion of NationStates rules. Hence, iMove :arrow: "Moderation".
Discussion of politically controversial topics are allowed as long as those involved in the discussion remain civil. Posting personal attacks at any player is against NationStates rules and will be punished.
Those who disagree with the views posted should either logically debate those views or remain silent. Flaming is not an acceptable alternative.
The use of puppets to agree with oneself is frowned upon.
--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator
The use of puppets to agree with oneself is frowned upon.To the point where they will be ruthlessly exposed? *smiles hopefully*
San Texario
27-12-2003, 02:07
I think racism should be banned. We should not allow the ignorant to reign free here upon these good forums...SAVE IT FOR BATTLE.NET!
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THE MOST POWERFUL
27-12-2003, 02:36
opinions are different than racism.
opinions should be allowed as long as they do not offend others RACES.
imported_Seph
27-12-2003, 02:37
I am strongly against the banning of any free thought. Of course advertisements, flaming, or other forms of posts which specifically degrade thought should not be allowed to exist. The banning of a category of thought due to its message and not to its sensibility or quality should not be allow to squelch the free exchange of ideas that the internet is specifically here for. You cannot give people the freedom to ban anything they feel like that falls into the undefined and broad category of "racist".
Personally, I am strongly against specific, discriminatory hatred, but what does banning this form of speech accomplish? It does nothing to combat the problem, and just forces them to find another way to express their ideas. Instead, if you disagree with someone's ideas, explain or argue with them so that they may see your point of view. They may even change their mind.
In conclusion, to ban any form of free, cognizant though simply hinders the global societies ability to grow and advance. This is a politically-oriented forum. It is here to allow people to express their ideas. Let us keep it that way.
Spherical objects
27-12-2003, 02:51
This is a discussion of NationStates rules. Hence, iMove :arrow: "Moderation".
Discussion of politically controversial topics are allowed as long as those involved in the discussion remain civil. Posting personal attacks at any player is against NationStates rules and will be punished.
Those who disagree with the views posted should either logically debate those views or remain silent. Flaming is not an acceptable alternative.
The use of puppets to agree with oneself is frowned upon.
--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator
Loathsome though I personally find racist sentiment, I accept that it exists and any attempt to repress it merely drives it underground and intensifies the bile. Also, as has been stated ad nauseum here, this site is privately owned and is not a democracy. It gets a bit convoluted sometimes but like democracy, it seems the least worst of options. However, it does go too far in any reasonable persons book to revile what the hatists call 'races' and ethnic groups on the daily basis as occurs here surely. These views will come up in debate but these threads are becoming almost daily events. Black, Jew, Asian etc hatred threads now abound. It is a campaign by the stalwarts of the stormfront brigade to 'soak' sites like this.......and no, I'm not being paranoid (not too much anyway), check those sites yourself. Moderating here is a nightmare, simply because all views are tolerated but this site is less interesting and useful than it was. Parratoga, who I dislike (it's a mutual thing), says things I despise but she (as far as I have seen) doesn't start threads devoted to demeaning some of the people who make this site popular. The 'newish' nazstie brigade has an agenda, bang away about 'race' and often homosexuality (like advertising) until some people begin to accept the basic premise that some people here and all round the world are inherently sub-human and do not deserve the basic respect that being a rational human being commands.
With a name like "Horst Wessel", I think it's reasonably clear where the sentiments of our thread originator lie...
Neutered Sputniks
27-12-2003, 03:57
But remember - with a few exceptions, no matter how vile another's beliefs may be, he/she has the same rights to post that sentiment as have to post your sentiments.
Spherical objects
27-12-2003, 04:01
But remember - with a few exceptions, no matter how vile another's beliefs may be, he/she has the same rights to post that sentiment as have to post your sentiments.
You're consistant on that and enforce it but the level of hate threads....not posts.....is rising.
Neutered Sputniks
27-12-2003, 04:06
So ignore them.
The only time we would interfere with that ruling would be where puppets are used - i.e. if this thread were actually a hate thread rather than a question about them.
Well, there is racism and racism. Racism under the theories of Leon Degrelle is even accepted by non-whitesmainly because it does not deal with the concepts of "superiority" and "ethnic cleansing".
Spherical objects
27-12-2003, 04:39
We are all racist and phobic to one degree or another. What separates us from our ignorant ancestors is the ability to rise above primevil instincts. I once admitted that I personally don't like the look of Hassidic (sp) Jews, but that's a problem I have, not them. I can at least acknowledge some of my faults..............I seem to hear hollow laughter coming from above....in a sort of ecliptic orbit..........it's gone now. These threads I moan about, is it possible to (again) knock up a few new rules about using words like 'Jew' and 'Negro' as a specific insult?
I'm not asking for a new dictionary, just a caution on the use of a few words. Please.
Neutered Sputniks
27-12-2003, 06:54
Give me links to where they're used as specific insults, and I'll look into it.
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i think it is funny that those who are against racism are the ones that are against freedom of expression , maybe if there speech was censored , they would have a different tone!HUH??
(I'm guessing his post was kindof off topic, but even so.)
How many puppets took part in this poll?
The GreaterNetherlands
27-12-2003, 18:52
It's good to have somewhere in this world where at least SOME free speech is allowed!
Give me links to where they're used as specific insults, and I'll look into it.
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106646&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=240
The last one...
By the way, I think we shoul ban the racists...
I hate racists, but it should be allowed a free forum.
You know what, we should allow racists, then we would have no one to prove wrong all the time.
Tuesday Heights
27-12-2003, 23:08
We can't ban racists, as long as they're tactful with their opinions, we can't bar them for expressing their ideas.
As much as I hate racism, I don't think we should ban the racists.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
Neutered Sputniks
28-12-2003, 06:42
Give me links to where they're used as specific insults, and I'll look into it.
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106646&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=240
The last one...
By the way, I think we shoul ban the racists...
So...lets discriminate against the discriminators because they discriminate?
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Tactical Grace
28-12-2003, 07:29
racism = good, but tahts just my opinion
Evidently. How about you stop posting flame-bait, and I hold back from giving the Game Mods the word?
Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator
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THIS GUY posts three word posts, and is really annoying
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Tactical Grace
28-12-2003, 07:55
you can't count
Look, could you please be a little less insulting to people and tone down your racist comments? It is generally OK to debate race issues, but what you are doing is trolling. There is little thought or reason behind it, and it is unnecessarily offensive.
Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator
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Tactical Grace
28-12-2003, 08:12
Just be aware that there are boundaries. You can debate, yes. But briefly popping into a thread to call someone a Jew in a derogatory fashion, and similar activities, are right out.
Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator
What countries tax dollars pay for this site?
If i am not mistaken the answer is none.
The forum is MADE FOR PUBLIC USE, but not public.
This site is owned, Max may at will ban racists, or jews, or crackers, or spiks, kikes, kruats, he ban anyone with an IP addy in venezula.
This arguement is pointless.
Who cares whether the majority want racists banned or not.
Most vocal racists rarely have the intellect for actual debate, so you get 'mudslingers'. Who cares?
If you jewish, is JEW really an insult?
I myself live in Detroit, MI and most of Black,negro,colored african american friends, or what ever the politically correct term is for today are not insulted by the term '******'.
Being of Irish ancestry I get more offended by the Gaels being called English.
Who cares.
We all have prejudices, be they against races, or hair styles, frat boys, or burn outs, homosexuals, or muslims.
No one is innocent, or even less guilty, just less vocal.
So I say one last time, Who Cares?
Ignore someone throwing words just for the sake of expressing their own ignorance.
Max Barry is a known hassidic Jew.
:wink:
Look, this thread is getting nowhere fast. The original question was answered long ago and it's turning into potential flame-bait at best and pointless commentary at worst. Therefore, there's no reason to keep it open.