NationStates Jolt Archive

As a direct result of the persistant attempts of the mods, particularly Neut, to take all fun out of passing time in the general forum, we are beginning to see its demise. Pablo left last week, now Beeks and Spaam. A significant number of other general forum veterans have also left recently and many more are now also considering leaving. Many have strongly expressed thier views that overly agressive and pompous moderation has, and continues to, take the fun out of the forum. I won't name them but there posts are there for all to see.

If you want this forum to continue to flourish i suggest you guys get together and make a decision to chill out. We all want to see aggressive flaming, pointless spamming etc minimised and you mods do a good job with that. Equally however, you must let people express themselves and, provided that major nuisance or offence to players isn't caused then back off. You guys seem to have no idea where to draw the line between adequate moderation and pernicious interfering. Neut is the most appalling for this - he is a bad egg, a snake in the grass and the skunk of all mods. I have never incurred his wrath but as one who lurks around these parts manly just watching and reading, this is very apparent. For the sake of the game get rid of him.

If you want to see the general forum die on its arse - keep going the way you are. That is my prediction, i hope you guys dont make it come true. I look forward to your response.

Please leave the mods do their un paid jobs in peace. They have good reasons for what they r doing and Beekers deletion was actually a joint decision by ALL the mods. Sorry bud but, that's the way the cookie crumbles.


Keep up the good work mods. Hopefully all us players vcan learn to respect the rules a little more whilsty having fun.

Gaybos your making a pretty bold statement. I have a feeling your next. Even though I do agree.

Funny... plenty of players manage to fun without breaking the rules...

Please leave the mods do their un paid jobs in peace. They have good reasons for what they r doing and Beekers deletion was actually a joint decision by ALL the mods. Sorry bud but, that's the way the cookie crumbles.


Keep up the good work mods. Hopefully all us players vcan learn to respect the rules a little more whilsty having fun.

Are you a mod?

No.

Your opinion = NOTHING

Bloody modabee.

hmmm, Well. My opinion is actually worth something since the mods don't like threads like this considering beekers DEAT has already been discussed in another thread.....

Hey give the guy a break (Gaybos). He had a problem and went to the mods with it. Do some of you guys think by kissing up it will get you anywhere?

Funny... plenty of players manage to fun without breaking the rules...

I think the vast majority of the rules a entirely subjective. the problem arises with thier application. Beeks has been deleted for breaking the rules, but yet the only people who want to see the back of him are the mods. He is almost universally held in great affection and, as i'm sure you've seen, his demise is now being mourned. The inevitable end-game of this type of intervention is that characters who, like beeks, make the forum a fun place to be, will leave. The blame for this will lie entirely at the door of the mods and the overly aggressive way they subjectively and unevenly apply the rules.

look, i'm not gonna say i'm happy about this whole thing and i'm sure most of you know how i feel, cause beeks is a good friend of mine irl. But at the end of the day it isnt my site so its a matter of swallowing hard and getting on with it.

please can everyone stop hurling abuse at Neut, as was said a long time ago. when something happens the mod that first dealt with the problem will carry on dealing with till resolved as to give one point of reference, so therefore it will seem that Neut has it in for beeks, but from what i've seen and heard around these parts there is no one person to blame it was a collective decsion. So dont shoot the messenger.

Whilst this was triggered by the beeks deletion, the point i am trying to make is much more broad as outlined above. The Beeks case is just a very good example of overly aggressive moderation and Neut is just a good example of an overly aggressive moderator.

Anyway, I feel I've expressed my view now and have made my prediction. I won't post here again, but if any of the mods would take the time to address my concerns I would be most appreciative.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=105885

I point you to that thread above. Mods, plz lock this thread.

Funny... plenty of players manage to fun without breaking the rules...

I think the vast majority of the rules a entirely subjective. the problem arises with thier application. Beeks has been deleted for breaking the rules, but yet the only people who want to see the back of him are the mods. He is almost universally held in great affection and, as i'm sure you've seen, his demise is now being mourned. The inevitable end-game of this type of intervention is that characters who, like beeks, make the forum a fun place to be, will leave. The blame for this will lie entirely at the door of the mods and the overly aggressive way they subjectively and unevenly apply the rules.

Maybe I'm just tired, but I'm having trouble parsing out what you're trying to say here...

You seem to believe that we don't apply the rules evenly, but in the same breath appear to be arguing that since Beeker was held in high regard by forum posters that he should be granted special dispensation.

Furthermore, I would hardly call this a case of "overly aggressive" moderation. He's been given several chances, many more than most players, and continually broke the rules.

Finally, I've noticed that this seems to go in phases. For awhile we're too strict, then we're too lenient. Much like we're left-wing nutters one week, and right-wing facists the next.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=105885

I point you to that thread above. Mods, plz lock this thread.

ACtually, if you look at the thread you quoted.. I have TWICE asked for THAT thread to be locked (as it's author, I understand I'm allowed to request this)... so this one is fine :D

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=105885

I point you to that thread above. Mods, plz lock this thread.

ACtually, if you look at the thread you quoted.. I have TWICE asked for THAT thread to be locked (as it's author, I understand I'm allowed to request this)... so this one is fine :D

To the Mod responsible.. Thanks! :)

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

I want to make a quick post here. This is an unofficial post and does not represent the opinion of the moderators.

As you may expect, it is standard moderator policy to purge the posts when a person returns after being asked not to come back, as is the case here. Thus, his posts were purged automatically upon deletion.

In the above post, Beeker was bowing gracefully out, and for that I thank him.

Unofficial Modling Post

Pablo left last week, now Beeks and Spaam. A significant number of other general forum veterans have also left recently and many more are now also considering leaving. Many have strongly expressed thier views that overly agressive and pompous moderation has, and continues to, take the fun out of the forum.

If you want this forum to continue to flourish i suggest you guys get together and make a decision to chill out. If you want to see the general forum die on its arse - keep going the way you are.

Then perhaps, maybe, it wouldn't kill some "veterans" to start talking to new people and actually being nice to ones who deserve it. Expand the clique, so to speak. ;)

Pablo left last week, now Beeks and Spaam. A significant number of other general forum veterans have also left recently and many more are now also considering leaving. Many have strongly expressed thier views that overly agressive and pompous moderation has, and continues to, take the fun out of the forum.

If you want this forum to continue to flourish i suggest you guys get together and make a decision to chill out. If you want to see the general forum die on its arse - keep going the way you are.

Then perhaps, maybe, it wouldn't kill some "veterans" to start talking to new people and actually being nice to ones who deserve it. Expand the clique, so to speak. ;)

What is this clique you speak of???


~Normack~
General Forum King
My Airmax shoes for your beamer
lets trade now
http://69.57.141.218/367/22/upload/photo-2.jpg

What is this clique you speak of???

Let me put it differently for you then...
Every internet forum/chatroom/group/community/whatever has its own regs and cliques. In this case, a few regs decided to leave and one (as best to my knowledge) was deleted, now the other members are up in arms about it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe they should step back and examine the issue. This is a forum (a great one, yes) but only a forum. This person apparently had violations in the past, and by a consensus of all the mods, was deleted for them recently. It has been pointed out previously that if this were a new nation, that new nation would have been deleted immediately, and nobody, not even any of the regs, would say boo about it.

The regs on this site don't know how good they've got it. ;)

What is this clique you speak of???

Let me put it differently for you then...
Every internet forum/chatroom/group/community/whatever has its own regs and cliques. In this case, a few regs decided to leave and one (as best to my knowledge) was deleted, now the other members are up in arms about it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe they should step back and examine the issue. This is a forum (a great one, yes) but only a forum. This person apparently had violations in the past, and by a consensus of all the mods, was deleted for them recently. It has been pointed out previously that if this were a new nation, that new nation would have been deleted immediately, and nobody, not even any of the regs, would say boo about it.

The regs on this site don't know how good they've got it. ;)

I have to agree

but what does that have to do with clique

Look, I am tired of seeing my friends deleted, and I am also tired of seeing all the finger pointing at the mods. More than anything, I am tired of new nations spouting off in these threads with butt-kissing mod support. They really lack the perspective of older nations, and seem to feel that they are actually going to get somewhere by sucking up. It is disgusting.

I know that I am a guest here, as are we all. I try to abide the rules even as the restraints get tightened. It has been a difficult adjustment for alot of older nations to endure, as we used to basically have free run of the place. Change however is the only constant in this universe, so we must adapt or leave.

I would just like to take a moment to ask all of us, players and mods, to step back, take a deep breath, and really look at this situation. We all need to be a little more patient.

Come on Nyborg. People should be able to support the decisions of the mods without always being labelled a suck-up.

Many of us appreciate all the work the mods have done for us. And while I don't post in the NationStates forums a lot, I certainly challenge you to call me a noob without making yourself look foolish. I remember the days before mods and those days put me off of the NationStates forums for many months. I cannot imagine going back to that.

We know the rules. They have been pointed out time and time again. Is it so hard to follow them?

Nyborg, I'm tired of seeing regulars think they can get away with whatever they want because they're popular. Beeker was given far more chances than anyone (even Sheol), and yet every single time he returned to doing exactly what he was warned for. Not only was he forum-banned (and if anyone argues he didnt deserve it, I ask you to recall the "Beekers Anti-Nazi Brigade" and the ensuing spam), he was deleted multiple times for flaming/griefing other players. Every time he was deleted, he returned and within a few days was back to his old tricks. To those who argue that his deletion for the spam invasion was un-warranted, look back and see what he was forum-banned for - quite similar actions. Regardless of how long he's been around, he's been given numerous chances - and he's blown every single one of them. End of story.

Just because a player is a regular, or old, does not exempt him/her from the rules. Some rules (such as the offensive national name) are bent because there was no rule at the time the nation was formed. That does not, however, apply to nations that cause as much trouble as Beeker, Sheol, Philandrea, etc. caused.

You grow weary of ever more restrictive rules. We Mods grow weary of having to make ever more strict rules because players feel the need to abuse their priviledges.

As Hack pointed out: there are plenty of nations that enjoy themselves without breaking/bending the rules - many of them almost as old as NationStates itself.

Did anyone even read what I wrote? I wasn't hazing the mods for their actions. I even stated that I'm tired of people constantly pointing fingers at the mods. I have no disrespect for newer players, or people who support the mods actions. I have stood up for several of the mods on a few occasions. I have noticed some players both old and new, that no matter what the mods say, are quick to reply with kudos. This however, was hardly the point I was trying to make. What I wanted, was for all of us, to take a deep breath, and really think about what we are saying, what we stand for, etc. The reality is, this is just a game. I also stated that no matter how hard it was to adjust to changes here, we have no choice. We must comply with the rules or leave. Quite simple really.

Is no one else simply saddened by how quick we are to join sides and become defensive? I seem to remember a time where we all co-existed without so much dificulty.

Neut, I was quite suprised to see you assuming I was attacking you. I happen to think quite highly of you, and Beeker as well. I am an independent person with a mind of my own, and I hate to see us all at each other's throats.

In the forum are many different opinions, which some will never comprimise. This is shown by the frequent debates on Homosexual rights. The deletion of some nations will also never be resolved compleatly. The mods are doing a great job in trying to stay objective and for important decisians they make, some people will hate it and some people will welcome it.

There are 10,000 nations on nationstates and I personally think people arent joining because of the mods, but because of some of the topics that appear on the menu.

Nyborg, the last few days I've been taking a lot of heat for apparently just simply being out to get Corinthe, and now apparently I'm an over-zealous Mod because I deleted Beeker's reincarnation. I apologize for my previous reaction, although, I still stand behind what I posted.

A) First person to call me an arse-licking mod supporter gets it between the eyes.

B) Everyone, lay off the mods. They do a good job, and while I, personally, might not agree with some (read=most) of their actions, I can see why they did them. Beeks had his chance. I'm surprised this didn't come earlier.

This is not a democracy. This is a Police State, and in a police state, the quick thrive, and the rule-breakers suffer. That's why I like this site. The mere concept of a united moderation decision to deat Beeker is a frightening concept, making me wonder what he did this time.

I don't think I've ever heard of another unanimous mod decision. Ever. :? Correct me if I'm wrong, Neut, but do you mods ever agree on anything?

Actually, there's quite a bit we agree on.


We agreed that Sheol was a pain in the..ahem..

So, can we all play nice now?......Please?

WWMBD? :shock:

So, can we all play nice now?......Please?

WWMBD? :shock:

Hopefully he'd write another book.

That would be nice. :wink:

Sad to say, but Roania is quite right. For all the amount of "appeals of this" and "questions about that" that we're bombarded with, we aren't actually bound to do anything. Sometimes I think (and I know I'm not the only one) that by being as transparent as we are we set ourselves up for a fall. Presenting the reasoning that X is a flamer or that the invasion of region Y was actually within the rules often looks like an invitation to criticise and call names when Z is ruled not to have flamed or region A is griefed.
Then again, if we simply moderated in silence, we'd have similar problems. Apart from the interaction with players (which I at least enjoy), we'd be accused of everything under the sun, possibly even of being the Illuminati. Yes, I know we are the Illuminati, but that's not the point :wink: .

If not all of this makes sense, apologies in advance. It's been a long day. I hope, however, that the general gist is clear.