NationStates Jolt Archive

Hello,

My primary nation is (was) Assjackistan - and had been around for about 11 months now. Just last night, it seems to have been deleted with no reason given. I'm curious as to why - I don't believe I've done anything lately, and I'm wondering if perhaps this is a bit of a mistake that can be rectified with a bit of discussion regarding the issues.

Thanks.

Assjackistan...

Should this have been a problem after so long, though? I've spoken to several mods about several issues across several months (to overuse a word) and didn't receive any warnings, comments, etc. I've been a pretty low-key player, had even crossed the 2 billion population mark.

I can understand if that was it, but I think it should have at least been discussed after 10 months rather than someone just flipping a switch so abruptly.

If someone reported it via the Getting Help page, chances are the mod who read it just went for a straightforward deletion.

If this is the reason for your deletion it just proves how ridiculous some of the mods have got in their actions.

Hopefully we'll find out soon - I'm not mad at anyone, I'm just a little sad and maybe a bit frustrated. I've been a steady, supportive player and I don't want to be the cause of any trouble. But I'm feeling like I was hit a bit unjustly here.

Time is not a factor in your defence. Driving through a red light, 10 years ago, is still an offence today. There is no expiring date on offencive names :P

<----------------- Not a Moderator, just wanna help out.
CorinThe
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Well... actually, there is a statute of limitations on that kind of offense. And if you talk to the police, and they can SEE that you've run the red light, and they fail to press charges at that point, there's significant legal basis for harrassment if they file charges at a later date.

Not the same issue, I know, but still. It's not as if I had hid the name somehow, so.. well... yeah.

Well... actually, there is a statute of limitations on that kind of offense. And if you talk to the police, and they can SEE that you've run the red light, and they fail to press charges at that point, there's significant legal basis for harrassment if they file charges at a later date.

Not the same issue, I know, but still. It's not as if I had hid the name somehow, so.. well... yeah.

I understand your frustration. It sux having a nation deleted, which you cared for such a long time. It just shows the mod slowness, and nothing else :(

I wonder if my nation Analyse will die some day to :twisted: J/K :wink:

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CorinThe
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Hello,

My primary nation is (was) Assjackistan - and had been around for about 11 months now. Just last night, it seems to have been deleted with no reason given. I'm curious as to why - I don't believe I've done anything lately, and I'm wondering if perhaps this is a bit of a mistake that can be rectified with a bit of discussion regarding the issues.

Thanks.

Scolo deleted your nation. He was going through the nation list yesterday doing a purge of offensive nations. Yours came up. It will not be revived. I suggest that you don't use such words in the creation of further nations.

Thank You!

Stephanie
Game Moderator

Unreal. If I'd even received one complaint, I'd have volunteered to let the name be changed.

Definitely a game where you get what you pay for, I suppose. Well, there's one book that's going back to the store tomorrow.

Scolo deleted your nation. He was going through the nation list yesterday doing a purge of offensive nations. Yours came up. It will not be revived. I suggest that you don't use such words in the creation of further nations.

Considering this was a nation of 2 billion+ which had been communicating with mods priorly (not in any negative sense that I know of), I would expect this to be covered under some sort of grandfather clause: at some point a sufficient number of mods have decided to not intervene and so much time has passed (about a year now? This nation was OLD in NS terms) that deleting such a nation is IMHO unreasonable. I know what the letter of 'the law' says. I also know mods are expected to use good judgement in how they yield their power and make their rulings. Please do.

Ballotonia


EDIT: letter of objection sent to Admin@nationstates.net

If anyone had the sense to notice, I think that someone should be warned before their nation is deleted because if they wish for it to be offensive, then it should be deleted. If they would change it, they should be given a second chance. I think I would change my animal/name/currency if it was at all offensive

If anyone had the sense to notice, I think that someone should be warned before their nation is deleted because if they wish for it to be offensive, then it should be deleted. If they would change it, they should be given a second chance. I think I would change my animal/name/currency if it was at all offensive

A nation's name cannot be changed without royalling screwing it up.
It used to be done, but there were numerous errors that came about as a result.

How is @$$ (not what it really said) offensive? How many of us in our everyday lives use that word freely and without thinking that it would offend someone? I mean, I can understand something like "F**|<0ffistan" or something like that, but, I think that this is an unfair and unjust deletion, with or without a warning.

Aside from the issues on changing a name - shouldn't the word "ass" be less sensitive in terms of offensive nature? Last time I checked, it was permitted to be aired on television and radio broadcasts during daytime and prime hours here in the US, and I believe there's even less of a problem with it in other western countries.

I'm all for moderation on issues which require it, but I'm just wondering if this was maybe an overreaction - the Terms & Conditions I had to agree to back in January said I was obligated to see things as parody and humorous when it came to content posted on the site. I've certainly tried to abide (and live) by that clause.

What is OK and what is not is determined by Max and/or [violet]. The mods simply enforce these rules.
Max's site -> Max's rules.

Agreed. Just wondering why it became a problem last night as opposed to the 300 nights that proceeded it.

This is the text of the letter that I've sent to the game moderators.

Myrth, I think you seriously underestimate that impact that this deletion has had on my region, and on my own personal enjoyment of this game. I've been playing here for over a year - and I think that gives our request here a bit more weight.

Rules are rules, but rules applied indiscriminately is tyranny.

--------------------------------------------

Admins, and Max,

I represent the United States of Brian's Room, the regional delegate for North America - a region that has been in the game since day 1 and has over 230 states.

TI'm writing on behalf of one of my states. The moderators recently deleted the "Islamic Republic of Assjackistan". This state has been a pillar of North America for over a year. Not only has he been a primary contributor, he also has developed and maintained - on his own dime - our message boards, as well as the message boards for the Allied Liberation League. They can be found at http://na.halberd.org and http://all.halberd.org.

Assjackistan has been in the game for over a year, had a population of over 2 billion citizens, and had been active working with moderators on issues of spamming and griefing on multiple occassions.

He has never been warned for his name not conforming to rules. He has never been asked to create a new nation or even been taken to task for this name change.

Simply deleted a nation that he has spent so much time developing, without so much as a courtesy notification via email or in game is not only offensive to me, but it smacks of being arbitrary and capricious behavior by the moderators (Scolo was this particular moderator) of this game. If the goal is to have fun, removing a state that has made the game fun for me and for countless hundreds of other players is outrageous.

I respectfully request that Assjackistan be allowed to change the name of his state, while retaining all of the attributes and information that he has worked so hard to accumlate over the last year of playing.

It would be wise to recognize that there are dozens of hardcore players in North America who would have gladly paid upwards of $10 a month to play NationStates 2 who won't do that if this situation isn't rectified. This has seriously impacted my enjoyment of this game.

I know that you care about your players, which is why I hope that this can be taken care of immediately.

I eagerly await your response,

Yours truly,

Brian Schoeneman
President, USBR
Regional Delegate for North America

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Brian W. Schoeneman
Asst. Political Director

Marine Engineers' Beneficial Association (AFL-CIO)
444 North Capitol Street, Suite 800
Washington, DC 20001

bsykes@gwu.edu VOC: (202)624-1664
deltaxi65@aol.com FAX: (202)638-5369
brianscho@d1meba.org
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

What is OK and what is not is determined by Max and/or [violet]. The mods simply enforce these rules.
Max's site -> Max's rules.

Yes but we all agreed to certain Terms back in our nations creation. These Terms constitute a contract. These mods need to be careful, because right now they are towing the legal line and as of the moment I don't think they're crossing it, but if they continue to act so recklessly then they might do just that. And whether a contract is small and stupid, or very great and important there are still laws against breaking them in any Western nation.

Scolo deleted your nation. He was going through the nation list yesterday doing a purge of offensive nations. Yours came up. It will not be revived. I suggest that you don't use such words in the creation of further nations.

Thank You!

Stephanie
Game Moderator


Why am I not surprised? A Mod who has nothing better to do than look through thousands and thousands of nations looking for ones with a subjectively "offensive" name. Curious then, that it takes days to get a response to a legitimit complaint, such as spamming.

This is unbelievable. No consideration was given to the actions of the player utilizing this nation, or to the absence of any complaints regarding this player that have been received in the year this nation has been around. This nation has developed 3 websites and message boards to be utilized for our region (North America), and has always played the game to the letter of the law. In fact, 3 or 4 months ago a nation by the name of "Big ass cougars" was deleted for having an illegal nation name. I brought this to the attention of my friend Assjackistan, who talked to a number of Mods regarding the possible future of his nation. If this was truly an issue, why was he not deleted then!? It sounds to me like Scolo went on a little rampage last night, and the rest of you Mods are conveniently standing by his actions now.

I have (formerly) always stood by the actions of the moderators in this game, but this is ridiculous. Why did this Nation’s name suddenly become an issue now? Further, if you cannot recognize that this nation's name was created in a satirical, not offensive, manner, then I have lost all respect for you.




Letter of objection sent to Admin@nationstates.net.

I'm simply repeating what mods have said in numerous other threads...

Deleting such a nation, one that has existed for so long is simply outrageous(sp?), especially when such rules were not in effect at the creation of the game. I know that, as i near the 1 year(rl unit) celebration of Celestia that i would be quite pissed to see it deleted merely because it didn't conform to a rule that was created after it had existed for a very fair amount of time.

My nation of Asskickinlandia was deleted this morning. It has been around for nearly a year and was right at 2 billion people. If the word Ass is offensive why waste all my time and effort into building my nation and not tell me up front? I would have gladly change the name to keep all I had worked for. The person that deleted my nation need sto step up and explain. With actions like these you will never have a pay per play game.


The Head Asskicker

Sure, insulting the mods is a great way of getting them to be sympathetic to your cause.

Now, we certainly shouldn't be insulting the mods on this issue. I'm sure they're doing the job they feel they must - what has to be done is ask for a more reasonable application of the rules in this situation.

I certainly feel that rules are a fine and well thing, but there has to be a set system for application of the rules. Simply saying "well, this was fine before but it's not now" isn't a very fair way to handle things.

I simply feel that I have been treated unjustly. I don't want the name back if it will be a problem, I simply want what national attributes I worked so hard to build without being told that my name would be a problem.

My nation of Asskickinlandia was deleted this morning. It has been around for nearly a year and was right at 2 billion people. If the word Ass is offensive why waste all my time and effort into building my nation and not tell me up front? I would have gladly change the name to keep all I had worked for. The person that deleted my nation need sto step up and explain. With actions like these you will never have a pay per play game.


The Head Asskicker

1. Once again, the mods delete a nation when something comes to their attention. They cannot be some sort of omnipresent police force. As far as I know, the age of the nation has no bearing on their decision.

2. Once again, a nation's name cannot be changed without creating all manner of errors.

3. With a pay-to-play game, people aren't going to risk paying $5 to create a nation with an offensive name.

How was that insulting? Are you the head cheerleader? I just want answers.


The Head Asskicker

Myrth, insults or no, these wholescale deletions without so much as a courtesy email are wrong. Just plain wrong. I agree that insulting the moderators isn't the correct way to go about it, but isn't it an insult to have a years worth of work deleted without so much as notification?

Imagine you spend a year erecting a barn on your property. You even call the cops a few times when kids break into it and they help you catch them. Then you wake up one morning, and find a pair of cops on the lawn with a bulldozer, fresh from knocking the barn down. The excuse? You didn't have a zoning permit when you built it.

Fair? I don't think so. In fact, the cops would probably end up in court.

The moderators need to stop what they are doing until they can develop some kind of way that is both fair and non-arbitrary before they destroy the player base with these kinds of actions.

Kickinyourasslandia, calm down and a GM will be here to answer your questions soon.

I only know what I've observed in previous situations like this one. For all I know, the game mods will go back on this decision but it is unlikely.

Myrth,

I'm a Player Correspondent on the Star Wars Galaxies MMORPG. Players pay $50.00 upfront and then pay $14.95 a month to play that game.

You'd be AMAZED at the number of innappropriate names that get created. It's simply amazing. And that's WITH a name filter AND an EULA that specifically states that those with inappropriate names will get deleted.

The moderators crossed a line here - you know it, and so do I.

The real test of the evenhandness and understanding of the moderators will be in how they resolve this situation, which is what I am hoping to see. I expect that a mutually agreeable solution will be reached.

I am calm. This is a game and I'm not going to get worked up over it. I am also a former Systems Admin for MS' Gaming Zone and for VR1. I know how things should be handled within the community and what has happened here is a travesty.

The rules are the rules. The mods enforced them. It's as simple as that.

What can't I post?

Any content that is:

* obscene
* illegal
* threatening
* malicious
* defamatory
* spam

This applies to your nation's name, motto, and other customizable fields, any messages you write, images you post, or any other content you upload or link to NationStates.

You people might all be wrong. What is his name was not the only reason why he is deleted? No disrespect to Amish Superheroes, but I don't know him. Who knows what else has happened. Istead of speculating, you might just wanna wait a mod answer on this.

<----------------- Not a Moderator, just wanna help out.
CorinThe
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I am calm. This is a game and I'm not going to get worked up over it. I am also a former Systems Admin for MS' Gaming Zone and for VR1. I know how things should be handled within the community and what has happened here is a travesty.

Why is it a travesty?

The rules are the rules. The mods enforced them. It's as simple as that.

What can't I post?

Any content that is:

* obscene
* illegal
* threatening
* malicious
* defamatory
* spam

This applies to your nation's name, motto, and other customizable fields, any messages you write, images you post, or any other content you upload or link to NationStates.

You're completely missing the point. This nation has existed for nearly a year, and has interacted with moderators in the past. This nation is a pillar of North American society. Why, today, was this nation suddenly deleted? Because Scolo was bored? That's hardly appropriate.

The rules are the rules. The mods enforced them. It's as simple as that.

Rules are never simple, and nothing is ever cut and dry. There's always room for interpretation in everything that's written and said. You may not see how someone can take a rule differently than your understanding of it, but sure enough someone else will understand that rule differently. By rules I'm referring to those in a game, not laws in life.
I don't think deleting a nation without forewarning is fair. If the rules have changed since these nations were created then a memo should have been sent out to all stating this and those in violation of the new rules should have had a chance to fix what was wrong. However it's been pointed out that certain things, like names, the system does not allow for changes to be made without problems, in that case those nations should be grand-fathered in. I was going to stay out of this, but what the hay that's my two cents.

You people might all be wrong. What is his name was not the only reason why he is deleted? No disrespect to Amish Superheroes, but I don't know him. Who knows what else has happened. Istead of speculating, you might just wanna wait a mod answer on this.


Exactly. You don't know him. I do. This nation has done nothing to warrant deletion. Quite the opposite, actually. Assjackistan deserves a medal for what he has done for our region.


Further, I ask that all nations NOT directly connected with Assjackistan, please refrain from posting in this thread. I know Corinthe likes to play moderator, but this forum is for nations who need moderation to interact with real moderators.

We don't need any further idle discussion; we just want to discuss the issue with the Moderators.

I guess what you need to answer is how is Ass obscene. It is among other things an animal. If it is obscene in your mind and you are picturing something obscene then perhaps you need to take a look at your morals and upbringing and perhaps look to God for forgiveness.


The Head Asskicker

What line did we cross?

You continue to argue that Scolo crossed a line when he deleted a number of nations with offensive titles, and yet no one has stated what that line was.

Every single time you log into this site, you agree to the ToS. Plain and simple. Dont like how they are, then find another site to log into.

And for those who dont believe "ass" to be offensive, I dare you to say it in front of your entire family, and if it wouldnt put you in the hot seat, I can lend you my family to say it in front of.

Neutered,

First of all, when Assjackistan was created, there was no ToS that pointed out that this type of nation name was unacceptable. To delete him after this was added would be considered "ex post facto".

Second, we don't have a problem with the moderators asking Assjackistan to create a new name. What we have a problem with is the fact that you have a state that has been around for a year, has put in lots of work on the game and truly cares about it, and has had previous mod contact getting deleted WITH NO NOTICE. Deletions of nations - particularly ones that have been around for a long, long time - should always be done on a case by case basis. This wasn't done here. It was an arbitrary and heavy handed use of the deletion power. It was, as I said before, crossing the line.

This wasn't a state that was created for overnight griefing. In fact, he's been around longer than every single game moderator I've seen.

Third, who determines which words are "obscene"? The name Assjackistan isnt merely the word "ass". It isn't "ass kickers" or something to that effect. Would you delete the name "Massachusetts" simply because those three letters were in a row in the title of the state?

Furthermore, if you want to argue under your "family" test, then how is it possible that under the "Nationstates News" section of the site there's a headline of "Work, Damn You"? Max Barry wrote that himself - how can you enforce rules on players who have been here since the near inception of the game when the creator isn't following them either? Is "damn" a less objectionable word that "ass"?

What we are asking for is a way to return Assjackistan to the game, with the same attributes and information as before, but with a different name. He has agreed to change the name if given the opportunity.

I don't believe that this is so much to ask for someone who has invested so much of his time making the game fun for so many other players. He's put a lot into the game. He deserves a second chance.

B

1. Damn is blasphemy, not swearing.
2. I fail to see how advanced notice of deletion has any point. The decision has already been made the outcome will be the same.

Did you not read where it was mentioned that it is not possible to change a nation's name?


Just because multying wasnt illegal when one first started the game and one started multying then does not excuse their continued multying - even if they successfully did so for over a year. Point is, they still were breaking the rules.


And there is quite a difference between using Massachusetts and Assjackistan. We know it. Dont try to play dumb, I have neither the time nor patience for that.


Using "damn" and "ass" are quite different, we know this. Just because you get away with something for a length of time does not mean you cant be caught/punished.

Myrth,

I used to work for the White House. Would you like to argue the definition of the word "is"?

"Ass" isn't a swear word, it's a type of animal. Go read the Bible if you want some examples. Jesus rode in to Jerusalem on an "ass".

And if you don't think "damn" isn't a swear word, I'll lend you MY family.

I'm a politician - don't argue semantics with me. :)

Notice of deletion at least would have given him a chance to barter with the Mods, or at least save his states information so he had a record of it when he started over.

It's just common courtesy. He shouldn't have been deleted in the first place, period.

I'm not arguing for all of the other states who were deleted. Just Assjackistan. Like I said, I want a case-by-case basis for this kind of thing. I think I've got a pretty good case here.

B

Um, when have you EVER seen a Mod barter? And as for playing semantics, didnt you start that?

Here's the deal: no resurrection. Tough luck. Choose a better name next time.

Neutered,

The punishment must fit the crime. The crime here wasn't that aggregious, and in real life there is always a statue of limitations. He didn't commit murder.

You are acting as if the fact that he has been a responsible member of the community for over a year means nothing? Why?

And I did NOT know that it wasn't possible to change a state's name. Is it possible for you to give him a new state that has the same attributes of his previous one?

I want to work out a mutually agreeable solution here - work with me.

B

Neutered,

What's the problem here? Why are you taking this so personally?

Doesn't the fact that you've got a bunch of folks on here arguing for this specific player matter to you? Doesn't the good work of this player mean anything?

B

Neutered Sputniks
Senior Game Moderator

Neut's word is pretty much final...

Myrth,

If I have to get Max Barry on the phone, I will.

There has got to be some mutually agreeable solution to this whole issue that can appease everyone.

I'm not asking for the world here. Just some understanding.

The moderators behavior here is completely baffling to me. Should I start worrying about having MY nation deleted because I'm trying to work with them?

B

Neutered,

The punishment must fit the crime. The crime here wasn't that aggregious, and in real life there is always a statue of limitations. He didn't commit murder.

You are acting as if the fact that he has been a responsible member of the community for over a year means nothing? Why?

And I did NOT know that it wasn't possible to change a state's name. Is it possible for you to give him a new state that has the same attributes of his previous one?

I want to work out a mutually agreeable solution here - work with me.

B

I just want to point out that this game is FREE and it's not a democracy.. Max Barry states that very clearly.. His site, his game, his rules.. I also find it hard to fathom while not impossible that he's been here for over a year.. my population is close to 2 billion and I haven't been here a year..

The point is there are some misunderstandings here.

1) This is not a democracy.

2) Just because the ToS changes, it doesn't mean because you became a member before the rule change that it doesn't apply to you. Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law. It is up to each person to know what the law is or is not. If a law was passed tomorrow in my country.. I would still be held to it and not be exempt just because I happen to be born before the law was passed. (As a politician you should know that)

3) As to the other poster who made claims of broken contracts.. that one is rather funny. It's a free game. Therefore there can't be any damages. Judgement proof there.

4) Did I mention this wasn't a democracy?

Stephanie
Game Moderator

Sorry I couldn't get into this sooner, I've been at class. What I'm seeing here is what seems to have been a fairly arbituary decision based on little or no information that has had severe adverse effects on not just one or a few nations, but an entire region. At no point was Assjackistan informed that there was a problem, to simply go and delete him is not only insulting to those of us who have participated in this game for any real period of time, but shows that certain moderators appear to unwilling to admit even the possibillity that they could possibly have made a mistake. And that has led this to getting blown entirerly out of proportion. I myself, despite having had disagreements, some which got fairly serious, with Assjackistan in the past, have sent off e-mails of protest to appropriate sources. We are not looking to diminish the power of the moderators any, instead we are merely trying to rectify this situation in a way that all concerned can be satisfied with.

President Gabriel Jewell of Grimdale

Sorry I couldn't get into this sooner, I've been at class. What I'm seeing here is what seems to have been a fairly arbituary decision based on little or no information that has had severe adverse effects on not just one or a few nations, but an entire region. At no point was Assjackistan informed that there was a problem, to simply go and delete him is not only insulting to those of us who have participated in this game for any real period of time, but shows that certain moderators appear to unwilling to admit even the possibillity that they could possibly have made a mistake.

Offensive name + inability to change name = deletion.
Where is the mistake?
I'm sure it is quite insulting to the game mods that despite them giving an answer that was requested, and explaining themselve SEVERAL times, they are still somehow at fault.

2) Just because the ToS changes, it doesn't mean because you became a member before the rule change that it doesn't apply to you. Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law. It is up to each person to know what the law is or is not. If a law was passed tomorrow in my country.. I would still be held to it and not be exempt just because I happen to be born before the law was passed. (As a politician you should know that)
Er... surely that's a different (although similar) situation? This person didn't continue creating nations beginning with or containing "ass" for over a year, did they? In the real world, reasonable laws are not applied to events occuring before they were passed. Furthermore, I thought it has been clearly stated by moderators that nation names cannot be altered even by a moderator, so how can it reasonably be considered a rule violation when the player can no longer do anything about the name?

Offensive name + inability to change name = deletion.
Where is the mistake?
I'm sure it is quite insulting to the game mods that despite them giving an answer that was requested, and explaining themselve SEVERAL times, they are still somehow at fault.

Mryth, can I ask what you're still doing here? Last time I checked, you weren't a moderator, and have no business posting in regard to this issue. Just because you have nothing better to do than sit and type in that self-important manner of your's, dosen't mean you should. You're not accomplishing anything, you're just inciting more arguments.

Offensive name + inability to change name = deletion.
Where is the mistake?
I'm sure it is quite insulting to the game mods that despite them giving an answer that was requested, and explaining themselve SEVERAL times, they are still somehow at fault.

I for one never found his name offensive, for that matter I don't ever recall anyone else mentioning that they found the name offensive. Certainly no one who deals with him on a regular basis within the region has found his name offensive. If the mere use of three letters in a certain order constitutes a word being offensive, then I ask taht all countries with those three letters, in that sequence be erased to insure fairness. Like say any country with the words 'Massachusetts', assassins, assassinate, assimilate, assail, assault, assay, assembledge, assemble, assembly, assent, assert, assertive, assertion, assess, asset, asseverate, assiduous, assign, assignation, assignee, assist, assistant, associate, association, assonance, assort, assorted, assortment, assuage, assume, assumed, assuming, assumption, assurance, and assure.
And once you've deleted all the nations with any of the above words in their title, I'll shut up.

Offensive name + inability to change name = deletion.
Where is the mistake?
I'm sure it is quite insulting to the game mods that despite them giving an answer that was requested, and explaining themselve SEVERAL times, they are still somehow at fault.

Mryth, can I ask what you're still doing here? Last time I checked, you weren't a moderator, and have no business posting in regard to this issue. Just because you have nothing better to do than sit and type in that self-important manner of your's, dosen't mean you should. You're not accomplishing anything, you're just inciting more arguments.

I'm simply reiterating what has already been said numerous times in this thread to save the mods wasting any more time on it.
You've had two game mods explaining this action, and Neut has indicated that there will be no reversal of this.

Why must you insist on dragging this argument towards the inevitable lock that will be dealt out?

Offensive name + inability to change name = deletion.
Where is the mistake?
I'm sure it is quite insulting to the game mods that despite them giving an answer that was requested, and explaining themselve SEVERAL times, they are still somehow at fault.

I for one never found his name offensive, for that matter I don't ever recall anyone else mentioning that they found the name offensive. Certainly no one who deals with him on a regular basis within the region has found his name offensive. If the mere use of three letters in a certain order constitutes a word being offensive, then I ask taht all countries with those three letters, in that sequence be erased to insure fairness. Like say any country with the words 'Massachusetts', assassins, assassinate, assimilate, assail, assault, assay, assembledge, assemble, assembly, assent, assert, assertive, assertion, assess, asset, asseverate, assiduous, assign, assignation, assignee, assist, assistant, associate, association, assonance, assort, assorted, assortment, assuage, assume, assumed, assuming, assumption, assurance, and assure.
And once you've deleted all the nations with any of the above words in their title, I'll shut up.


And there is quite a difference between using Massachusetts and Assjackistan. We know it. Dont try to play dumb, I have neither the time nor patience for that.

What is OK and what is not is determined by Max and/or [violet]. The mods simply enforce these rules.
Max's site -> Max's rules.

Yes but we all agreed to certain Terms back in our nations creation. These Terms constitute a contract. These mods need to be careful, because right now they are towing the legal line and as of the moment I don't think they're crossing it, but if they continue to act so recklessly then they might do just that. And whether a contract is small and stupid, or very great and important there are still laws against breaking them in any Western nation.

This is outrages.. it's a free game.. prove damages. Not much of a case there dude. Sorry.

Cold Springs - Myrth has just as much right to have an opinion on this situation as any one does. Including yourself. Please don't tell people who can and can't post here. You're not a mod either!

Thank You!

Stephanie
Game Moderator

Stephistan,

"1) This is not a democracy."

I'm not claiming that it is. Where have I said that this was a democracy? I fully understand that it's Max's game, and Max's site, and Max's rules. But that doesn't excuse heavy handed behavior that is unfair and inconsistent. And that's what I'm pointing out here.

"2) Just because the ToS changes, it doesn't mean because you became a member before the rule change that it doesn't apply to you. Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law. It is up to each person to know what the law is or is not. If a law was passed tomorrow in my country.. I would still be held to it and not be exempt just because I happen to be born before the law was passed. (As a politician you should know that)"

As a politician, I know that Article 1, Section 9 of the United States Constitution states that Congress may pass "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto law shall be passed."

An ex post facto law is a law that is passed whereby the person is held accountable for a crime that he committed before the law was passed. That's exactly what this is. And the reason why it was banned in the US Constitution is because they are patently unfair.

"3) As to the other poster who made claims of broken contracts.. that one is rather funny. It's a free game. Therefore there can't be any damages. Judgement proof there."

I agree. I'm not asking for damages. I'm asking for a bit of compassion, something that has been heretofore completely absence in the behavior and conduct of the mods.

"4) Did I mention this wasn't a democracy?"

Yup.

Did we do something here to personally offend you guys? I would think that having played the game for as long as we have, having told all our friends to play, having spent hours and hours coming up with new and inventive ways to make the game more fun would count for SOMETHING in your eyes.

Instead, my polite requests have been met with scorn. It's really disinheartening.

B

This question has already be answered several times...
I should hope a lock is approaching :|

Stephanistan,

I respectfully request that this thread not be locked until such time as we can come to some kind of resolution that is mutually agreeable here.

Thank you for your consideration.

B

Myrth,

If your state or a close friend of yours was deleted, I would like to think that you would advocate on their behalf as much as you could.

Again, I don't understand where this complete lack of compassion for the hard work of your fellow players is coming from. I really don't get it.

North America has done nothing but make the game better. Assjackistan has done nothing but make the game better. What did he do to deserve this kind of treatment? What did I do? What did my Region do?

B

North America has done nothing but make the game better. Assjackistan has done nothing but make the game better. What did he do to deserve this kind of treatment? What did I do? What did my Region do?

B

Offensive nation name = deletion.

How can there be any argument? The decision by the mods has already been said to be final.

This thread is going nowhere, fast.

It sounds to me like Scolo went on a little rampage last night, and the rest of you Mods are conveniently standing by his actions now.

Nation purges are something I've seen them do before.
I've also seen the task list and its a mile freaking long.
Scolo has finals this week and next, and is under a good amount of pressure. He's still trying to do his duties as a mod, and if that means running a purge so he doesn't have to spend 80 hrs. on here listening to people bitch and moan, then it means he runs a purge.

Lay off.

This thread is going nowhere, fast.

Being helped quite speedily by you. You're not accomplishing anything by playing the lapdog. We are trying to encourage Moderator and Admin discussion.

Our entire region is moving forward into protest, and are emailing the Admin and Max. We're content to wait for responses (email or otherwise) by them. If you're so tired of this thread, DON"T READ IT.

I don't think the mods knew they were doing anything wrong in this case. They saw the word "ass", and deleted it as obscene. However, whereas this particular word is considered vulgar in certain contexts (i.e., those where the British "arse" might me substituted) and could therefore be construed as obscene and contrary to the Terms of Service, in other contexts, where the word is applied to mean the animal, even where that context is considered insulting. For example, saying "This person is a jackass." or "That person is as clumsy as an ass." are neither vulgar nor obscene.

In the case of Assjackistan, the word "ass" was clearly coupled with the word "jack". The name simply would not function as a joke had it been "Arsejackistan" because no one uses the phrase "jackarse".

This is a pretty fine distinction, and I don't think the mods should be blamed or attacked for it. But they should probably realize that they can argue until they are blue in the face without changing the fact that, in this case, they are objectively wrong.

On a side note, would the word "arse" be contrary to the ToS? I believe that most of the mods are American, and that most Americans see vulgar and obscene British words as cute or kitschy. Are these assumptions correct?

Imagine you spend a year erecting a barn on your property. You even call the cops a few times when kids break into it and they help you catch them. Then you wake up one morning, and find a pair of cops on the lawn with a bulldozer, fresh from knocking the barn down. The excuse? You didn't have a zoning permit when you built it..
Of course, you had to pay to build the barn in that example.

What did you have to pay to build your nation...nothing.
Also note, that in that case you own the land as well.
Here you don't. You're basically renting server space for free.

Admin can do whatever they want with "your" stuff on this website, you don't have any claim to ownership to it.

Guys,

I'm in the middle of finals for my masters degree.

I just got off the phone with two Congressmen. I've got a meeting with Secretary Chou of the Department of Labor in 2 hours, and I've got a fundraiser and a Christmas party to go to tonight.

I've not done single thing today but deal with this issue. So don't tell me that people don't have time. My time is just as important.

You all should know how important this stuff is - and why its so exasperating to be treated like this. Rules or no rules, there needs to be some MODERATION in how the punishments are meted out. If there was no need for that, the moderators would just be strings of code, not living, breathing, thinking human beings able to use their judgement on what is right and wrong.

B

Stephistan,

"1) This is not a democracy."

I'm not claiming that it is. Where have I said that this was a democracy? I fully understand that it's Max's game, and Max's site, and Max's rules. But that doesn't excuse heavy handed behavior that is unfair and inconsistent. And that's what I'm pointing out here.

"2) Just because the ToS changes, it doesn't mean because you became a member before the rule change that it doesn't apply to you. Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law. It is up to each person to know what the law is or is not. If a law was passed tomorrow in my country.. I would still be held to it and not be exempt just because I happen to be born before the law was passed. (As a politician you should know that)"

As a politician, I know that Article 1, Section 9 of the United States Constitution states that Congress may pass "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto law shall be passed."

An ex post facto law is a law that is passed whereby the person is held accountable for a crime that he committed before the law was passed. That's exactly what this is. And the reason why it was banned in the US Constitution is because they are patently unfair.

"3) As to the other poster who made claims of broken contracts.. that one is rather funny. It's a free game. Therefore there can't be any damages. Judgement proof there."

I agree. I'm not asking for damages. I'm asking for a bit of compassion, something that has been heretofore completely absence in the behavior and conduct of the mods.

"4) Did I mention this wasn't a democracy?"

Yup.

Did we do something here to personally offend you guys? I would think that having played the game for as long as we have, having told all our friends to play, having spent hours and hours coming up with new and inventive ways to make the game more fun would count for SOMETHING in your eyes.

Instead, my polite requests have been met with scorn. It's really disinheartening.

B

This site is a private site. The US constitution really has nothing to do with this site. I'm personally not an American.. so it certainly doesn't apply to me. There is no claim on this site that any one has a right to free speech or any thing else. Every time you log into this site you accept the ToS. This would of course in the real world not even make it past the causation part of ant civil hearing. However, this is an RP game.. and real life has very little to do with it. These are the rules. The mods aren't perfect.. no one said we were. Yet, people must abide by our decisions because it's the best system we have on this site. Do we ever make mistakes? Of course. no system is perfect. Yet, we must stand by our decisions or can you just imagine the chaos it would be? Some times innocent people are convicted of crimes.. it's an imperfect system. I'm not saying that is the case here. However your idealism is screaming here. I like to think I was much more of an idealist in my youth , however as I grew into adulthood and beyond I realized that life is not always fair.. I still have some idealism of course.. I admire the fact that you do to, it's refreshing. However, none of your arguments at the end of the day involve Nationstates.. you speak of the real world.. and this isn't the real world. It's a role play game.

Stephanie
Game Moderator

Ok, let me try once more.

Offensive name = deletion.

Scolopendra found an offensive name, so it was deleted.

The mods discussed this issue, and found that Scolopendra was justified.

Discussion is over. Further debate in it is pointless.

I don't think the mods knew they were doing anything wrong in this case. They saw the word "ass", and deleted it as obscene. However, whereas this particular word is considered vulgar in certain contexts (i.e., those where the British "arse" might me substituted) and could therefore be construed as obscene and contrary to the Terms of Service, in other contexts, where the word is applied to mean the animal, even where that context is considered insulting. For example, saying "This person is a jackass." or "That person is as clumsy as an ass." are neither vulgar nor obscene.

In the case of Assjackistan, the word "ass" was clearly coupled with the word "jack". The name simply would not function as a joke had it been "Arsejackistan" because no one uses the phrase "jackarse".

This is a pretty fine distinction, and I don't think the mods should be blamed or attacked for it. But they should probably realize that they can argue until they are blue in the face without changing the fact that, in this case, they are objectively wrong.

On a side note, would the word "arse" be contrary to the ToS? I believe that most of the mods are American, and that most Americans see vulgar and obscene British words as cute or kitschy. Are these assumptions correct?The admin retains the right to ban any word from the website, no matter it's context.

If they wanted to, they could ban the word squirrel, and it would be perfectly within their rights.
Silly, yes.
Wrong, no.

It sounds to me like Scolo went on a little rampage last night, and the rest of you Mods are conveniently standing by his actions now.

Nation purges are something I've seen them do before.
I've also seen the task list and its a mile freaking long.
Scolo has finals this week and next, and is under a good amount of pressure. He's still trying to do his duties as a mod, and if that means running a purge so he doesn't have to spend 80 hrs. on here listening to people bitch and moan, then it means he runs a purge.

Lay off.

You obviously don't have all the facts and truly understand the arguments. Read the whole thread before you retort.

As for Scolo; it's obvious that he's trying to do his job as a moderator, and the fact that he's under stress from finals only lends credence to our case that he may have made an error in judgement by deleting our neighbor.

As for Scolo; it's obvious that he's trying to do his job as a moderator, and the fact that he's under stress from finals only lends credence to our case that he may have made an error in judgement by deleting our neighbor.

Neutered Sputniks, a senior game mod, agreed with Scolopendra in this matter. Error in judgement argument = gone.

It sounds to me like Scolo went on a little rampage last night, and the rest of you Mods are conveniently standing by his actions now.

Nation purges are something I've seen them do before.
I've also seen the task list and its a mile freaking long.
Scolo has finals this week and next, and is under a good amount of pressure. He's still trying to do his duties as a mod, and if that means running a purge so he doesn't have to spend 80 hrs. on here listening to people bitch and moan, then it means he runs a purge.

Lay off.

You obviously don't have all the facts and truly understand the arguments. Read the whole thread before you retort.

As for Scolo; it's obvious that he's trying to do his job as a moderator, and the fact that he's under stress from finals only lends credence to our case that he may have made an error in judgement by deleting our neighbor.
Ass in nation named ==banned name style
Assjackistan == banned name
Assjackistan == deleted

There is no error.

It sounds to me like Scolo went on a little rampage last night, and the rest of you Mods are conveniently standing by his actions now.

Nation purges are something I've seen them do before.
I've also seen the task list and its a mile freaking long.
Scolo has finals this week and next, and is under a good amount of pressure. He's still trying to do his duties as a mod, and if that means running a purge so he doesn't have to spend 80 hrs. on here listening to people bitch and moan, then it means he runs a purge.

Lay off.

You obviously don't have all the facts and truly understand the arguments. Read the whole thread before you retort.

As for Scolo; it's obvious that he's trying to do his job as a moderator, and the fact that he's under stress from finals only lends credence to our case that he may have made an error in judgement by deleting our neighbor.

A) I've seen people arguing to have their offensively named nations back many, many times.
B) The fact that Ass in your nation name is a no no.
C) Context often doesn't matter
D) The word Ass has already been grounds for deletion of other nations, this issue has a precident.

I think I have a pretty good grasp of the situation.

Other little factoid:
Scolo is one of the most reasonable and honorable guys I know.
Chances he made a snap decision, low.

Wow, Berserker and Myrth, thanks for the sympathy. Your touching concern for what's happened to me is really quite... amazing. For a variety of reasons.

I'm pretty upset about this. I certainly didn't conduct myself in an offensive manner, I never once crashed a region, I never flamed, and I certainly never trolled.

I'm simply getting shellacked for having a name which I had no clue would be offensive to anyone. And before anyone starts on it, no, I didn't know anyone would find it offensive. It certainly didn't seem any more offensive to me than the number of people with "Nazi" in their name (no offense, guys) to any number of Jewish NS players (my fiance included).

Somehow... that's more acceptable than the name which caused the deletion? I can't imagine that it is. But I don't see anything being done about it.

Steph,

You're missing my point. I'm not claiming that you guys don't have a right to do what you did. What I'm saying is that you SHOULDN'T have done what you did. And I used a real life example to justify my point. That's all.

Berserker and Myrth, I really don't understand why you guys are so against us. We're merely trying to solve this problem so that no one is hurt. We're not asking for a wholesale rollback of the deletions. We just want something done about this single, solitary situation.

Mods are not Gods. They are not perfect. They are not infallable. I think you guys are wrong on this one, and saying - you know what, we made a mistake, lets rethink this and see if we can come up with a compromise isn't going to destroy game as we know it.

What it will do is return some of the fun that you guys took out of it for me, and my fellow states with the stroke of a key last night.

I am not saying that Assjackistan didn't break a rule here. But 1.) It wasn't a rule when he was around so punishing him NOW for it is wrong. and 2.) There has to be some way we can work things out.

Can we quit arguing back and forth on this and try and find some middle ground?

B

Wow, Berserker and Myrth, thanks for the sympathy. Your touching concern for what's happened to me is really quite... amazing. For a variety of reasons.

I'm pretty upset about this. I certainly didn't conduct myself in an offensive manner, I never once crashed a region, I never flamed, and I certainly never trolled.

I'm simply getting shellacked for having a name which I had no clue would be offensive to anyone. And before anyone starts on it, no, I didn't know anyone would find it offensive. It certainly didn't seem any more offensive to me than the number of people with "Nazi" in their name (no offense, guys) to any number of Jewish NS players (my fiance included).

Somehow... that's more acceptable than the name which caused the deletion? I can't imagine that it is. But I don't see anything being done about it.
Look, this isn't an arguement for emotion.
Last I checked Ass wasn't a word that one was allowed to use in their nation name.
It doesn't matter if your Mother Teresa on the forums, it is still a violation of the TOS, and grounds for deletion.

As for the Nazi issue, the owner of the website created it as place for political discussion, and seeing how Nazism (aka National Socialism) is a political view, its an allowed name.

I am not saying that Assjackistan didn't break a rule here. But 1.) It wasn't a rule when he was around so punishing him NOW for it is wrong. and 2.) There has to be some way we can work things out.
B
It was a rule back then.
Look, there are tens of thousands of nations on this website currently. (There has been over half a million to date)
It would take forever and a day to wade through the entire list to find all the names.
You weren't noticed because probability was on your side up until recently.

As for the second part, then they have to give back names to anyone who can claim to find either context for their nation name or some "grandfather" clause.

I am not saying that Assjackistan didn't break a rule here. But 1.) It wasn't a rule when he was around so punishing him NOW for it is wrong. and 2.) There has to be some way we can work things out.
B
It was a rule back then.
Look, there are tens of thousands of nations on this website.
It would take forever and a day to wade through the entire list to find all the names.
You weren't noticed because probability was on your side up until recently.

Once again Berserker, read all the posts before you retort. Assjackistan has had dealings with moderators in the past. Also, we've worked together to report griefers and spammers many times, posting on the moderation forums and through the FAQ.

That's true. I had several posts on the forums asking for mod actions and oddly, never had any one mod say anything about the name.

I am not saying that Assjackistan didn't break a rule here. But 1.) It wasn't a rule when he was around so punishing him NOW for it is wrong. and 2.) There has to be some way we can work things out.
B
It was a rule back then.
Look, there are tens of thousands of nations on this website.
It would take forever and a day to wade through the entire list to find all the names.
You weren't noticed because probability was on your side up until recently.

Once again Berserker, read all the posts before you retort. Assjackistan has had dealings with moderators in the past. We've worked together to report griefers and spammers many times, and even posted on the moderation forums.And your point is?
Assjackistan was still in violation of TOS. Still deletable.

Steph,

You're missing my point. I'm not claiming that you guys don't have a right to do what you did. What I'm saying is that you SHOULDN'T have done what you did. And I used a real life example to justify my point. That's all.

Berserker and Myrth, I really don't understand why you guys are so against us. We're merely trying to solve this problem so that no one is hurt. We're not asking for a wholesale rollback of the deletions. We just want something done about this single, solitary situation.

Mods are not Gods. They are not perfect. They are not infallable. I think you guys are wrong on this one, and saying - you know what, we made a mistake, lets rethink this and see if we can come up with a compromise isn't going to destroy game as we know it.

What it will do is return some of the fun that you guys took out of it for me, and my fellow states with the stroke of a key last night.

I am not saying that Assjackistan didn't break a rule here. But 1.) It wasn't a rule when he was around so punishing him NOW for it is wrong. and 2.) There has to be some way we can work things out.

Can we quit arguing back and forth on this and try and find some middle ground?

B

Do you not see.. first of all.. I'm a parent. The majority of players who play this game are under age. I would not want my children playing a game that had curse words in it.. and yes.. I'm a liberal. Doesn't matter. There are kids as young as 12 and 13 on this site. The word "ass" is not acceptable. If we were to even fathom restoring your friends nation.. do you have any idea how many other people with offensive names would be banging down our door to do the same for them?

This is our decision.. you're just going to have to live with it. I'm sorry!

Stephanie
Game Moderator

Berserker,

As far as I am aware, there is no "list" of names that are banned. The ban is on the use of "obscene" state names.

As for the barn idea, you should see the websites and other things that Assjackistan has created for North America. That DID cost money.

We are not asking that Assjackistan be reinstated. We are asking that somehow, either his name be changed (which has been since said was impossible) or his attributes transferred to another state, perhaps Amish Superheroes, as that was his alternate.

Mods are not perfect - in another thread on here RadioCorporation was banned by an overzealous mod last night, and his state is being returned to him. Therefore, mods do make mistakes, and they are reversed.

All we are asking for here is some kind of compromise.

What Assjackistan did - naming his state - was wrong, under the rules that exist here now.

But what the Mods did - deleting his state and now being obtuse - is also wrong, and should be addressed.

All we want is a compromise.

B

Why should anybody be given preferential treatment? We have our standards and procedures. These standards and procedures are applied objectively. A nation's size is not taken into account for moderator actions, as it has no bearing on if a nation fits the standards. Unfortunatley in this case, there is no other method of correcting the problem of an offensive nation name. Saying that this case is different just because he was a big nation is like saying a drug kingpin shouldn't be prosecuted because he has been selling dope for years, and he was donating all his procedes to charity. Frankly, he should have been deleted a long time ago, but as Steph said, we are not perfect, and stuff slips by. We are not omnipresent, or omnicient, and I sincerely apologize for this shortcoming.

And your point is?
Assjackistan was still in violation of TOS. Still deletable.

That this is what is wrong with the game. The moderators do not act consistently. If the name was OK to some moderator then, than it should be OK to a different moderator now.


EDIT: Spelling

Offensive name + inability to change name = deletion.
Where is the mistake?
I'm sure it is quite insulting to the game mods that despite them giving an answer that was requested, and explaining themselve SEVERAL times, they are still somehow at fault.

I for one never found his name offensive, for that matter I don't ever recall anyone else mentioning that they found the name offensive. Certainly no one who deals with him on a regular basis within the region has found his name offensive. If the mere use of three letters in a certain order constitutes a word being offensive, then I ask taht all countries with those three letters, in that sequence be erased to insure fairness. Like say any country with the words 'Massachusetts', assassins, assassinate, assimilate, assail, assault, assay, assembledge, assemble, assembly, assent, assert, assertive, assertion, assess, asset, asseverate, assiduous, assign, assignation, assignee, assist, assistant, associate, association, assonance, assort, assorted, assortment, assuage, assume, assumed, assuming, assumption, assurance, and assure.
And once you've deleted all the nations with any of the above words in their title, I'll shut up.


And there is quite a difference between using Massachusetts and Assjackistan. We know it. Dont try to play dumb, I have neither the time nor patience for that.

Then I'm not shutting up. A friend of mine is suffering unjustly, and I for one do not abandon my friends for any reason, and most certainly not when they need my help the most. Hang in there, we're all pulling for you.

We have our standards and procedures. These standards and procedures are applied objectively.

Unfortunately, they are not. That's the problem. It's all up to the individual moderator, notwithstanding the decisions other moderators may have come to in the past.

As for the Nazi issue, the owner of the website created it as place for political discussion, and seeing how Nazism (aka National Socialism) is a political view, its an allowed name.

Whoa whoa whoa Nazism is not offensive. I am a very proud Jewish man, and I find Nazi's extremely offensive. There is probably not a more offensive word in the English language more offensive than Nazi. Do you have any idea of the pain and suffering that Nazism has caused and continues to cause? I do not think that you have any idea what you just said, as this offends me greatly.

So since Ass is offensive to some people, and Nazi is offensive to some people why is one allowed and one not? I would have to say this would make the mods hypocrites.

Saying that this case is different just because he was a big nation is like saying a drug kingpin shouldn't be prosecuted because he has been selling dope for years, and he was donating all his procedes to charity.
But should he be prosecuted for selling dope at a time when it was legal to do so?

Why is it so hard for people to accept that they have no case against the mods, and move on?


Lets use our amazing powers of inferation here:

Massachusetts is not offensive even though containing the boldened combination of letters because...dum dum dum...get this...by using the (cue booming voice) Power of Inferment (cut booming voice), we realize that given the context of the title, it is not offensive.

However, had the word been typed as this:
mASSachusettsit would indeed be deemed offensive - by nature of context.


Now, lets apply this ability to infer:
Assjackistan is offensive as it contains the emboldened combination of letters and, through the (cue booming voice) Power of Inferment (cut booming voice), we recognize the context as causing this combination to be used in an offensive manner. Thus, DEAT.



Every SINGLE FREAKING TIME you log into your nation, you are agreeing to the ToS - whatever they may be at that moment. So, should Max, or [violet], or any other admin, decide to add to the ToS that the letter "a" would not be allowed, and then remove that note 24 hours later, for 24 hours every nation that logged in and used the letter "a" would be in violation of that ToS. Don't like it, well, tough, that's the way the world works. No one forces ANYONE to log into this site.

There's no statute of limitations in NS.

Saying that this case is different just because he was a big nation is like saying a drug kingpin shouldn't be prosecuted because he has been selling dope for years, and he was donating all his procedes to charity.
But should he be prosecuted for selling dope at a time when it was legal to do so?

He could not be prosecuted for commiting the crime before it was illegal, he would only be tried on the cases that happened after the law was enacted. So Assjackistan has not commited any crimes (rule breakings) since this rule was enacted, so he could not change what he previously did.

Saying that this case is different just because he was a big nation is like saying a drug kingpin shouldn't be prosecuted because he has been selling dope for years, and he was donating all his procedes to charity.

Really, this is more like saying "Whoops, we didn't prosecute him even through he was in our own homes selling dope right in front of us and telling us about it, but we just didn't take action on it. Silly us."

In the case of police/lawyers, people lose their f'n JOBS over mistakes like that. But all I'm getting is "whoops, our bad, aren't we stinkers" from the people in authority here.

Thank goodness I didn't quote the book of Numbers around here, because when Baalam rides his ass, I'm sure God smote him down for swearing or something.

Saying that this case is different just because he was a big nation is like saying a drug kingpin shouldn't be prosecuted because he has been selling dope for years, and he was donating all his procedes to charity.
But should he be prosecuted for selling dope at a time when it was legal to do so?

He could not be prosecuted for commiting the crime before it was illegal, he would only be tried on the cases that happened after the law was enacted. So Assjackistan has not commited any crimes (rule breakings) since this rule was enacted, so he could not change what he previously did.



Every SINGLE FREAKING TIME you log into your nation, you are agreeing to the ToS - whatever they may be at that moment. So, should Max, or [violet], or any other admin, decide to add to the ToS that the letter "a" would not be allowed, and then remove that note 24 hours later, for 24 hours every nation that logged in and used the letter "a" would be in violation of that ToS. Don't like it, well, tough, that's the way the world works. No one forces ANYONE to log into this site.

As for the Nazi issue, the owner of the website created it as place for political discussion, and seeing how Nazism (aka National Socialism) is a political view, its an allowed name.

Whoa whoa whoa Nazism is not offensive. I am a very proud Jewish man, and I find Nazi's extremely offensive. There is probably not a more offensive word in the English language more offensive than Nazi. Do you have any idea of the pain and suffering that Nazism has caused and continues to cause? I do not think that you have any idea what you just said, as this offends me greatly.

So since Ass is offensive to some people, and Nazi is offensive to some people why is one allowed and one not? I would have to say this would make the mods hypocrites.

I think the point he was trying to make is that Nazi is a political point of view.. not a curse word. I'm a liberal and am not found of Nazi's either. However, what is not against the ToS of this site is political opinions. You may think it's not fair.. but those are the rules.

Stephanie
Game Moderator

Mods,

Please - will you stop responding with smartalecked responses and look at it from our point of view.

The reason we are asking for preferential treatment is because we've been playing this game for a long time, have told all of our friends about it, have made off-site websites about it, etc. We are what makes this game great. And we asking that you take this into account.

What I have been saying over and over and over here is that we know that Assjackistan with that name will never come back. We recognize this. We don't have a problem with this. We want some other solution that gives the PERSON (there are people involved here) on the other end of that computer the same population, etc. that he had before. That's what we want.

The rule against this name being in place was NOT in existence in January of 2003 - I know, because I was here. I was here before regional founders, before mods, before regional controls, before most of you.

You guys have all but admitted that what happened here wasn't the best outcome. So let's work together and find a better outcome than where it sits now. Because I do not intend to stop until we come to some kind of compromise.

B

Berserker,

As far as I am aware, there is no "list" of names that are banned. The ban is on the use of "obscene" state names.

As for the barn idea, you should see the websites and other things that Assjackistan has created for North America. That DID cost money.
B
And do those still exist and function?

See, where you complain that we've gone smartalecky is because you dont realize that we've already said "No" to the making of a deal, "No" to the preferential treatment, etc.

N-O.

Saying that this case is different just because he was a big nation is like saying a drug kingpin shouldn't be prosecuted because he has been selling dope for years, and he was donating all his procedes to charity.

What a bad comparison. How about: the drug kingpin has been selling the dope TO the officers (as Assjackistan has been in direct communications with mods before), the officers previously discussed the dope selling and said it wouldn't hurt, and that the officers knew for all those years that the drugs were being sold out in the open. Yes, it's still illegal to sell drugs, but what does it say about the officers who all of a sudden huddle together and arrest the drug kingpin, in apparent moral outrage that the dope selling is taking place? I don't think any mod here can claim any kind of moral high ground.

On top of that: a drug kingpin can stop selling drugs. Assjackistan could not change his nation's name. Once the ToS was added, his existence was (per the current ruling) declared a violation of the ToS. So even though mods had previously indicated having no problem with his name, you'd be expecting him to let his nation time out and die just because one day some other mod MIGHT regard it offensive anyway? (which is what now has happened)

Unreasonable rules enforcement. Just totally unreasonable.

Ballotonia

Mods,

Please - will you stop responding with smartalecked responses and look at it from our point of view.

The reason we are asking for preferential treatment is because we've been playing this game for a long time, have told all of our friends about it, have made off-site websites about it, etc. We are what makes this game great. And we asking that you take this into account.

What I have been saying over and over and over here is that we know that Assjackistan with that name will never come back. We recognize this. We don't have a problem with this. We want some other solution that gives the PERSON (there are people involved here) on the other end of that computer the same population, etc. that he had before. That's what we want.

The rule against this name being in place was NOT in existence in January of 2003 - I know, because I was here. I was here before regional founders, before mods, before regional controls, before most of you.

You guys have all but admitted that what happened here wasn't the best outcome. So let's work together and find a better outcome than where it sits now. Because I do not intend to stop until we come to some kind of compromise.

B

The decision has been made. I also looked at your region. The player in question is neither your founder nor your delegate. So, to say that he is the corner stone of your region is an interesting thing to say. We are not responsible for off-site websites. That really has nothing to do with us, this game or our ToS.

The decision has been made. You've sent your emails of protest. Perhaps you should just let it go.

Stephanie
Game Moderator

Mods,

Please - will you stop responding with smartalecked responses and look at it from our point of view.

The reason we are asking for preferential treatment is because we've been playing this game for a long time, have told all of our friends about it, have made off-site websites about it, etc. We are what makes this game great. And we asking that you take this into account.

What I have been saying over and over and over here is that we know that Assjackistan with that name will never come back. We recognize this. We don't have a problem with this. We want some other solution that gives the PERSON (there are people involved here) on the other end of that computer the same population, etc. that he had before. That's what we want.

The rule against this name being in place was NOT in existence in January of 2003 - I know, because I was here. I was here before regional founders, before mods, before regional controls, before most of you.

You guys have all but admitted that what happened here wasn't the best outcome. So let's work together and find a better outcome than where it sits now. Because I do not intend to stop until we come to some kind of compromise.

BThe mod who deleted Assjackistan has been around longer than you.

Steph,

I will not give up.

We have a legitimate request here. And whether or not you agree with my contention that Assjackistan was a pillar of our region, take a look at the protest that is going up in North America.

Why can't you guys work with us?

B

Steph,

I will not give up.

We have a legitimate request here. And whether or not you agree with my contention that Assjackistan was a pillar of our region, take a look at the protest that is going up in North America.

Why can't you guys work with us?

B

Arguing with a soccer referee will get you a red card.

Just thought I should point this out.

We want some other solution that gives the PERSON (there are people involved here) on the other end of that computer the same population, etc. that he had before.

Good point. I'd even go further and say that players are not treated as human beings, but as mere strings of text floating along the internet. I see no compasion, no caring for others. I've seen this in the communication with players as well: generally short and blunt. It doesn't matter whether any information actually makes it accros, as long as they feel they can claim to have 'explained' matters, then that just warrants a DEAT later on. You're not a human being, just some text on a screen.

That's what would make people like you and me bad mods: we care about people.

Ballotonia

Berserker,

As far as I am aware, there is no "list" of names that are banned. The ban is on the use of "obscene" state names.

As for the barn idea, you should see the websites and other things that Assjackistan has created for North America. That DID cost money.
B
And do those still exist and function?

Last time I checked this morning they were.

Berserker,

http://na.halberd.org

Mods,

I, unfortunately, have to go to a meeting with Secretary Elaine Chao of the US Department of Labor. I will try and discuss this issue more with you when I return.

I will do my best not to mention the productivity drain that www.nationstates.net and similiar online games have on the US economy.

B

Steph,

I will not give up.

We have a legitimate request here. And whether or not you agree with my contention that Assjackistan was a pillar of our region, take a look at the protest that is going up in North America.

Why can't you guys work with us?

B

You made a request, we responded with our decision Brian. Asking for it over and over again is not going to change it. Also, yes we are aware of the protest that you incited. This matter in basically closed.

Stephanie
Game Moderator

Dear Mods and all involved. Having read the whole of this topic from start to finish i would like to ask if there is some way of giving Amish his original status as assjackistan. (this si to say his populus).


Secondly. The Nazis were a Facist political party. The nazi term in itself stans for NATIONAL WORKERS PARTY. tHAT IS NOT A POLITICAL BELIEF. Ergo, Nazi is an offensive name that i believe should be banned. It is far more offensive than the word in question here. Nazis then and now stood for persecution, murder and genocide. I strongly disagree with it being allowed and would like to reiterate what was said before. If ass is offensive, Nazi is to. The ToS does not say blaphemy or cursing, it says offensive. Theres my 10 cents. I see where you mods are coming from but, you are being ratherone sided. Also, you guys are fighting a lost case. Please find a way to give amish his nation back (there must be some way to transfer the code between nations) and please consider disallowing Nazi in a nations name. (this could also lead to problems though such as the nation Anti-nazi. but, the mods should be more careful with a puge)

and that's my 10 cents on the matter.

Please, forgive my lack of technical knowledge on this matter, but is it possible to transferer stats of a country to another? If it is, would it not be more wise to grant the wish of this person who has put much effort into this game, attracted people, and made the game better - as we can see through the backing he has, and working websites he owns?

eddited for spelling

The name was legal at the time the nation was created so why is he being deleted now? I can't see why this is fair, he was law abiding then and is now and it's not even a rude word, i wouldn't class it as swearing.

Emperor Matthuis

The decision has been made. I also looked at your region. The player in question is neither your founder nor your delegate. So, to say that he is the corner stone of your region is an interesting thing to say. We are not responsible for off-site websites. That really has nothing to do with us, this game or our ToS.

The decision has been made. You've sent your emails of protest. Perhaps you should just let it go.

Stephanie
Game Moderator

Well, considering that the regional delegate (and now the regional founder) have gone on record as declaring Assjackistan to have been a cornerstone of the region, I think it's safe to assume that he is, indeed, a most valuable cornerstone.

Playing the "protecting the children" card is also unconvincing. Are your children allowed to peruse TV Guide? Then they've already seen the word "jackass" countless times. How is "Assjackistan" substantially worse than that? I also find the implication that it's fine for kids to play around on a website crawling with whacko ethnic supremecists and advocates of terrorism, but only as long as none of the genuinely sane people on the site use the syllable "ass" in their country's name, to be somewhat mystifying.

I've also read both the "Etiquette" section of the fact and the "Terms of Services," and saved a copy of each to my machine, which seemed prudent given the circumstances. A cursory inspection of both indicates no guidelines as to what constitutes obscenity, and here in America it is not unhead-of for the word "ass" to be used by itself, in a derogatory and non-satirical fashion, on prime-time television. Since the producers of those shows have yet to be arrested under any obscenity-related laws, I think you'd have a hard time establishing that the word "ass," by itself, is obscene. I suspect if you tried to prosecute someone just for using the word, you'd be laughed out of court. Based on what little I've heard about Australian television, the same likely holds true over there.

"So what?" you say. "This is a privately-owned website, so it doesn't matter what the law says." Maybe that's true, maybe it isn't. Ask me after I've taken an Intellectual Property Law course, or had a chance to talk to someone who has. It seems to me, though, that if you're going to post a TOS agreement that forbids "obscenity," and fails to elaborate on what constitutes obscenity, your players can hardly be faulted for interpreting the TOS based on the legal definitions of the terms it contains, rather than some definition the mods made up without telling anybody.

I think the point he was trying to make is that Nazi is a political point of view.. not a curse word. I'm a liberal and am not found of Nazi's either. However, what is not against the ToS of this site is political opinions. You may think it's not fair.. but those are the rules.

Stephanie
Game Moderator

Well in the ToS it says offensive words are not allowed. Nowhere does it say that b/c Nazism was a political view point that is is grandfathered beyond that ToS. Therefor by the ToS you agree that "Nazi" is offensive and should be deleted.

Well it seems to me that the moderators have made the decision to let all Nazi nations exist, even though they are extremely offensive. So you have made a judgment call, why not make a judgment call on this?

I think the point he was trying to make is that Nazi is a political point of view.. not a curse word. I'm a liberal and am not found of Nazi's either. However, what is not against the ToS of this site is political opinions. You may think it's not fair.. but those are the rules.

Stephanie
Game Moderator

Well in the ToS it says offensive words are not allowed. Nowhere does it say that b/c Nazism was a political view point that is is grandfathered beyond that ToS. Therefor by the ToS you agree that "Nazi" is offensive and should be deleted.

Well it seems to me that the moderators have made the decision to let all Nazi nations exist, even though they are extremely offensive. So you have made a judgment call, why not make a judgment call on this?

The mods interpret the rules... not you.

The mods have spoken. Don't argue.

I think i am going to make my point clearer. *takes a deep breath*

Facism is a political view point. The Nazis were a political party and are now terrorists. Nazis followed the political view point of facism NOT the other way around ergo, Nazi and all associated terms should be considered offensive. It is completly different to Communism which is a political viewpoint. Please learnm that their is a huge difference between a political view point and the name of a specific political party. Note how there has never been since the time of hitler a party named the Nazis.

The ToS should clearly clarify between offensive and vulgar. They are two completly diferent things!

I appologise for what must be another un-wanted opinion, but i can claim complete impartiallity, as i havent even heard of anyone that has spoken in this thread. I have to ask, however, why Myrth persists in using such tones, against people that, so-far, have managed to hold back and maintain a polite, helpful stance in getting their friend back.

I still stand by "never leave a man behind". I hope someone else does.

<Double post>

I think i am going to make my point clearer. *takes a deep breath*

Facism is a political view point. The Nazis were a political party and are now terrorists. Nazis followed the political view point of facism NOT the other way around ergo, Nazi and all associated terms should be considered offensive. It is completly different to Communism which is a political viewpoint. Please learnm that their is a huge difference between a political view point and the name of a specific political party. Note how there has never been since the time of hitler a party named the Nazis.

The ToS should clearly clarify between offensive and vulgar. They are two completly diferent things!

Then while we're at it, let's outlaw the words Bolshevik, Whig, Republican, Democrat and every other name of a party that has done bad things.

Sun, 11 May 2003
Legalese

Two people have threatened to sue me so far, both because another player said something mean to them. So now NationStates has a Legal Disclaimer, which you have to read before you create a nation. If you've already got one, you should read it now, because it imposes new conditions on your use of the site. The big one is this: if you post something illegal on NationStates and someone sues me because of it, you pay my legal bills.

Of course, an even better situation is for nobody to sue anybody. That's been working pretty well so far. Let's keep doing that.

Terms & Conditions of Use
In English
NationStates is a free online political game. Players are expected to respect the fun, humorous atmosphere of the game, and remain civil when interacting with each other. However, because this is politics, the site is open to anyone, you can post messages, and there are more players than moderators, someone may post content you find objectionable. You understand that this is the case, and agree that NationStates.net is a forum, not a publisher, and is not responsible for posts by players.

In Legalese
BY USING THIS SITE, YOU SIGNIFY YOUR ACCEPTANCE TO THESE TERMS OF USE. If you do not agree to these terms and conditions, do not use this site.

You may submit content to NationStates.net so long as it is not obscene, illegal, threatening, malicious, or defamatory, does not invade the privacy or infringe the intellectual property of a third party, and does not constitute "spam." You may not use a false e-mail address, impersonate any person or entity, attempt to "hack" the site or another player's account, nor otherwise mislead as to the origin of information.

Should you breach these terms and conditions you agree to indemnify NationStates, Max Barry, and any and all employees, agents, administrators, moderators, volunteers, and affiliates associated with NationStates.net from and against any and all third party claims, demands, liabilities, costs or expenses, including reasonable legal fees.

You understand that this site is open to the general public, and agree that while using it you may encounter content posted by other users that you consider objectionable. You understand that while reasonable efforts will be exerted to ensure the site remains free from offensive and illegal content, the site administrator(s) and/or moderator(s) cannot control what other people upload. All responsibility whatsoever is expressly disclaimed for content posted by the general public.

You understand that this web site contains satiric content, and presents views and opinions exagerated for the purposes of parody.

Where your country of access imposes laws regulating this web site, you agree to use your best efforts to comply with them.

All content, services, and software on this web site are provided "as is" without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. You assume total responsibility and risk for your use of the web site.

When you submit content to NationStates.net, you grant the site and its administrator(s) a non-exclusive, royalty-free, worldwide, perpetual license to reproduce, distribute, transmit, and publicly display such content.

The portion of the content of this web site that has not been submitted by users is copyright under international law Max Barry 2002-2003.

I don't know enough about the situation to speak to the merits of it.

Myrth. There is a big difference between all the things you mentioned and the Nazi party.

Then while we're at it, let's outlaw the words Bolshevik, Whig, Republican, Democrat and every other name of a party that has done bad things

The Bolsheviks brought about a change in russia the people wanted. Hitler lied to the people to bring about changes that he wanted. He basically re-wrote the constitution of germany with no permission from the populous.

Hitler is the only person in written history to have ever commited mass genocide. It is sick that you think that the term Nazi is in offensive. I find it hard to believe that Nazi's even still exist in todays society. There are certain things that are permissable and that may be offensive but, are taken lightheartedly but, the term Nazi should not be one of thsoe things. The main point i'm trying to make is:

If Ass is a banned word, it is far less offensive than the term Nazi, a political party, not system. Please moderators get your facts straight before trying to support your decisions. You talk about being non-selective well then, do something about a name that io would imagine ohh, at a guess, 75% of people using these forums find offensive.

http://www.satanstephen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/williteverend.gif

http://www.satanstephen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/williteverend.gif

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/negative.jpg

Not.

Well. This IS a fine welcome, isn't it?

I've decided that, as rules changes are apparently applicable to breaches made before the rules were created, that I may as well remove my nation. After all, it's only a matter of time before the skitterSLAVia part of my name breaches a 'parts of words which sound kinda like other words which some people might find offensive' clause that will one day possibly be put in place, so I may as well cut my losses now, and save Mr Barry the bandwidth and storage costs I'm causing him in advance.

He can thank me for it later.

For the rest;

The Mods: I'd have more respect for you guys if it wasn't for the fact a lot of what you said just plain hasn't made sense. (My favourite was the one where the mod talked about ignorance of the law, apparently ignorant that the law *didn't even exist* when it was 'broken', which makes it pretty hard to be ignorant of it.)

If the name was offensive, fair enough. If you couldn't change it or move the stats over, fine, I guess it couldn't be helped, something liable to cause offence is something liable to cause offence. But the *least* that could've been done was a short e-mail explaining what was going to happen and why. You might talk about the time issues (and I'm aware you haven't... in fact, you've said little about why he wasn't told beforehand at all,) but hasn't more time been taken in this forum anyway?

The players: You've lost. His nation is gone, you aren't getting it back, the mods have spoken, and right or wrong, they're judgement IS final. Now, you just have to decide your course of action; either move on, work to continue the growth of your region, and keep the fun in the game... Or vote with your cursors, close your regions, and show them you weren't kidding when you said he was a cornerstone player. Neither option is perfect. Your choice.

I hope you guys work this out, but this has not been a good first impression of the forums, and it will be my last.

So my nation has been deleted too and it was explained to me it was a mistake (I've yet to get it back but I'm giving you guys some time, I'm sure it takes awhile). What I don't understand is why the definitions are so vague. Obscene means many things to many people. To me neither Nazi nor Ass nor Damn are at all offensive, to others they all might be offensive. It just seems to me that the rules have left A LOT of room for Mods or whoever to just decide what the rule is. What also seems strange is how the rules were never explained to the Mod who deleted me since I never did anything wrong. If some of the Mods don't even know the rule, how can they be expected to enforce it?

I'm not saying anyone here is right or wrong, its really too bad he lost his nation and the Mods are right since Ass can be offensive, I just think that the rule is way too vague. Obviously you van't make a list of EVERY word which is obscene but maybe make the rules more consistent. And I don't see how blashpemy is less offensive or obscene to some people than ass nor do I see how you can say that you're saving our children by not exposing them to it since its all over TV, radio, and other media and kids say it all the time.

Ass is a donkey, how can a donkey be offensive?

All,

I appreciate everyone's aid in our attempt to get a reasonable compromise with the Moderators on this single, solitary situation.

If anyone wants to join in our protest, visit na.halberd.org or visit North America.

I have received an email from Violet indicating that the matter is currently under review, and I am content to let this go until I hear back from her.

Thanks again to everyone who has come out in our support. For those who haven't - be careful, you could be next.

B

This is just a quick post, because I don't have time right now to read this thread in the detail it deserves.

"Assjackistan" doesn't strike me as an acceptable name for a nation. This is a subjective opinion, of course, but necessarily so.

Players of long standing, however, deserve special consideration. They've shown that they aren't spammers or griefers or otherwise here to make life painful for other people. If this guy's been here for a year, then that truly makes him one of the old guard.

So I will restore Assjackistan. I will also manually rename the nation according to its owner's wishes. This is normally impossible, as others have pointed out, but, like I say, it's a special case.

Now everybody stop e-mailing me. ;)

TY violet for ur response to this matter. Might this mod discretion and problems with the TOS be something i can bring up in Nation States 2?

Glory be to Violet!! Thank you from the bottom of my heart! North America is forever in your debt.

I shall order 50 copies of every forthcomming Max Barry book for my library system! Thank you so much!


-------------------------------
Justin L. Meyer
-Reference Department-
Kenton County Public Library
401 Kenton Lands Road
Erlanger, Kentucky 41018
-[859] 962-4000 Ext. 4123-
jmeyer-nospam@kenton.lib.ky.us [Remove -nospam to contact]

good on you [violet]

I was hoping to be the first to thank [violet] for bringing this controversy to a fair and civilized conclusion, but it looks like my pal The Cold Spring already beat me to it. Still, it bears repeating: Thanks, [violet]! You rule!

On behalf of North America, I must offer my sincere and deepest thanks to [Violet] for reinstating Assjackistan. I trust that the name change will taken care of quickly so that there are no future problems.

You have our undying gratitude, [Violet].

To the others we have argued with, Moderators included, we wish you no hard feelings, and hope to work together with you in the future to keep this great game great.

Thanks again to you all,

President Brian
United States of Brian's Room
Regional Delegate,
North America

[quote="DamnAnAssIsADonkey"[/quote]
With a name like your's I would advise you be very,very careful around here

I also want to thank Violet for handling this in such a timely manner.

I am very pleased that Assjackistan will be reinstated, much to the moderators disgust I'm sure. Especially Myrth, "The mods have spoken. Don't argue." I guess some things are worth arguing about. I didn't mean to say, "Ha ha" but that person had it coming!
My first major point is for Stephistan, if you find the word 'ass' so offensive to the 12 and 13 year old, they need to institute a system to block any of the foul language people post. And may I point to the legal disclaimer that you keep saying Assjakistan agreed to. Here is that legal disclaimer approving of his name, "You understand that this site is open to the general public, and agree that while using it you may encounter content posted by other users that you consider objectionable. You understand that while reasonable efforts will be exerted to ensure the site remains free from offensive and illegal content, the site administrator(s) and/or moderator(s) cannot control what other people upload. All responsibility whatsoever is expressly disclaimed for content posted by the general public....If you do not agree to these terms and conditions, do not use this site. "
So, if you find it objectionable that a 12 or 13 year old may see the word Ass, then DON'T USE THE SITE.

My second point is for Author Message Exetonia. As a historian I flinch at your statement, "Hitler is the only person in written history to have ever commited mass genocide," Uhm....what about Stalin? Of his own people, he killed more people then Hitler ever did. Then there is Columbus and all those that followed in the America's. Then there is of course all the trouble in the Balkins, Yugoslavia, and the Middle East. Okay, I feel better now.

Now that's it's over, I just wanted to post my two cents. Thanks for reading.

Would I be correct in assuming that "Kickinyourasslandia" was trying to do some coat tail riding? I hardly think that name would have lasted nearly a whole year unless he just stayed in the background and never posted otherwise I doubt he'd have lasted a week.

Hello,

My primary nation is (was) Assjackistan - and had been around for about 11 months now. Just last night, it seems to have been deleted with no reason given. I'm curious as to why - I don't believe I've done anything lately, and I'm wondering if perhaps this is a bit of a mistake that can be rectified with a bit of discussion regarding the issues.

Thanks.

Scolo deleted your nation. He was going through the nation list yesterday doing a purge of offensive nations. Yours came up. It will not be revived. I suggest that you don't use such words in the creation of further nations.

Thank You!

Stephanie
Game Moderator

It just said ASS! It's not like it was a real curse word. Oh well, I've seen worse........poo p pants was deleted because that is offensive apparently.

Hello,

My primary nation is (was) Assjackistan - and had been around for about 11 months now. Just last night, it seems to have been deleted with no reason given. I'm curious as to why - I don't believe I've done anything lately, and I'm wondering if perhaps this is a bit of a mistake that can be rectified with a bit of discussion regarding the issues.

Thanks.

Scolo deleted your nation. He was going through the nation list yesterday doing a purge of offensive nations. Yours came up. It will not be revived. I suggest that you don't use such words in the creation of further nations.

Thank You!

Stephanie
Game Moderator

It just said ASS! It's not like it was a real curse word. Oh well, I've seen worse........poo p pants was deleted because that is offensive apparently.

:roll:

Thank you very much [violet]

[violet] thank you for showing the consideration to the circumstances surrounding this that the mods would not show. I sincerely thank you for going out of your way, I am sure the rest of my region feels the same.

[violet] thank you for showing the consideration to the circumstances surrounding this that the mods would not show. I sincerely thank you for going out of your way, I am sure the rest of my region feels the same.

sorry bout the double post

]This is just a quick post, because I don't have time right now to read this thread in the detail it deserves.

"Assjackistan" doesn't strike me as an acceptable name for a nation. This is a subjective opinion, of course, but necessarily so.

Players of long standing, however, deserve special consideration. They've shown that they aren't spammers or griefers or otherwise here to make life painful for other people. If this guy's been here for a year, then that truly makes him one of the old guard.

So I will restore Assjackistan. I will also manually rename the nation according to its owner's wishes. This is normally impossible, as others have pointed out, but, like I say, it's a special case.

Now everybody stop e-mailing me. ;)

//steps out of shadows

Outstanding! This decision has restored my faith In [violet] . It was a very good call since it took into consideration more than the letter of the law, but the intent of the person when they joined this site.

I wish the sarcasm and "stick swinging" would go to the wayside, and more problems were adjudicated in this fasion. I think that too often folks are quick to condemn a request, because they don't agree with the prima facia of the request, instead of taking a moment to "listen".

//starts to walk back into shadows

//pauses

This was a special moment, and it doesn't mean I'm coming back. I just had to say what I had to say.

Peace all..

//walks back into shadows

Thank you, violet.

I've emailed the admin address off-board to request the name change for my nation. I'm glad this could be brought to an amicable solution, and I have nothing but love (and a healthy amount of amazement) for the support that was shown in this matter.

I want no one to show any ill-will to the mods. They are doing a job that is very necessary to the operation of the game, and we cannot fault them for operating by the rules. I've been in the same situation before, and it's not fun for anyone.

Thank you all again, and let's move forward from here and not spend any time being needlessly vitrolic or harsh towards those individuals who donate their time and effort to making our game experience less troublesome. In fact, I think we should all thank them more often for their hard work.

Cheers!

Not to be a pain, but when exactly will my old nation be resurrected? It was RadioCorporate I guess someone didn't understand what they were doing and just deleted it.

RC, sorry about the delay. It got backlogged a bit, so I threatend to hack a GM's computer until they fixed it.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling
PGP: 0x0604DF3E

RC, sorry about the delay. It got backlogged a bit, so I threatend to hack a GM's computer until they fixed it.

You could do that? :shock:

:o oh my

Hey, I don't doubt it. I mean, look at him - he's got A MASK AND A HAT. This is basically his version of bright, tropical colouring which says "Do not be messing with me sir, for I am deadly poison and will have a rootkit on you faster than you can say 'netstat' and you had better believe this."

...you don't tug on Superman's cape...

Assjackistan is back, reincarnated as Al Amarja. So we can all get back to our lives. :)

While I'm here, I want to make two general points. Or, rather, kill two myths. The first myth is that the mods are power-hungry. The second is that this game is unfair but that's just too bad.

First things first. The mods are meant to delete nations with inappropriate names -- I tell them to do that. And they are meant to deal more harshly with inappropriate language in nation names and mottoes than in the forums (because the former lacks a right of reply). The name "Assjackistan" is borderline, but Scolopendra was doing nothing more or less than his (unpaid) job to remove it.

Along with Assjackistan, Scolo deleted dozens of nations with inappropriate names yesterday, including Assmashers, Assramistan, and many others that aren't fit to print here. But basically, pick your profanity and insert it between "Ass" and "istan". At a guess, Scolo didn't stop to inspect the populations of every nation before he zapped it, which, given the workload, is understandable. Probably 99% of the nations Scolopendra deleted were dumb, griefer nations that we are all better off without.

I've told the mods it's impossible to change a nation's name. (Which it is, unless, as in this case, I manually delete the nation, modify the save file, and re-create it as a new nation). It's nice for me to be able to jump in and offer a happy solution here, but the mods didn't have that option. So they rightly stuck to the rules I had given them.

Mods deal constantly with players you never see -- people who spout the most deeply offensive crap and go to almost unbelievable lengths to try to spoil this game for other people. If they seem brusque sometimes, that's why. The person who followed my announcement with a gloating post from a new nation called "Scolo-is-a-bad-mod" exhibited a particularly deep lack of understanding of what our mods do.

Second point. Yes, this site can be run pretty much however I want it, and if I say it's prohibited to have the letter "a" in your nation name, then it's now prohibited. But there will never be such a rule, because the rules exist solely and purely to make NationStates fun and fair. This thread began with a politely phrased complaint, and it was roundly ridiculed with the "This site can do whatever it likes" defense. That didn't address the complaint, and didn't help.

So let's try to do better than this. We're all good people here. :)

I fully support Violet in getting rid of nations with offesnive names, I report three or four of them daily,

there is no point or use in having a name like that, and someone who has a name like that is not a serious player, they are most likely either someone who will die off in 15 days, or a troll.

good work Scolopendra, and good work violet, that was nice of you to restore him since he decided to play in the rules.

=-=-=
Loop
My current flag
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/1_infinite_loop.jpg

Thank you for reviving my nation.

Thank you, violet, for finding an amicable solution.

As for 1 Infinite Loop, I've always had respect for your work - but I can't imagine why you'd attack my motive as a player. I've certainly been around for long enough to establish myself as a solid, respectable member of the community.