NationStates Jolt Archive

Let me preface this by saying that I am not a really active NS player, nor do I believe many of the nations in my region have been - we show up every day, lodge messages and deal with issues, but we aren't big into diplomacy and inter-region relations. So an invasion wasn't really something that was on our radar screen. And I wasn't around to see all of the regional activities and messages lodged, so can't provide a detailed picture of the events.

A new nation and around ten "friends" (no idea if they're multis or not) move into the region, endorse a new delegate, then eject and ban the current delegate and at least one other nation. A couple of other natives lodge messages questioning the new invading delegate, and they get banned too. I (in my own clumsy way) try to muster enough endorsments to get the region back into native hands, but I fail miserably and get banned along with at least one other nation that supported my attempt. At this point, there are still plenty of natives - this was not a complete ejection situation. But in a region where there has been a lot of apathy in the past, and at this point it's pretty clear that anyone who tries to take the delegateship from the invaders is going to be ejected and banned, I think a lot of people are just shutting up. A few others have joined the ejected nations in a new region, and we're now not quite sure if we should give up on getting our old region back.

So, is this griefing? I sent a getting help message about a day ago (after the initial round of ejections but before my failed attempt to gain the delegateship), but I haven't heard anything back.

as far as i know, banning natives isn't allowed..
you can kick a few out, but you have to remove them from the banlist immediatly..

When done by invaders, the events you describe are rule violations.

Ballotonia

To make simple and clear-

You are not alowed to ban natives from their own region. You may eject them to clear UN endorsements, but must remove them from the ban list right away.

So yes, what they are doing is griefing.

~Bas

aaa, here it is:

Max and [violet] have both spoken on the subject, and so long as an invasion does not do the following things, they are considered a legal form of play:

-Ejecting a large number of natives (judged on a case-by-case scenario- 40% is a good meterstick for measuring it though)
-Spam/flood the regional message board and regional happening
-Take over by use of UN Multies
-Interfere with the natives' ability to come and go from the region as they please. (This includes kicking people out and leaving them on the ban list, passwording the region without giving the password to the natives, and the like.)

It's unlikely that the Powers That Be will change their minds on this.

~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Game Mod

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68616

Alright, so even though the percentage of natives ejected was relatively low, because we're still banned from re-entering it's griefing. Cool. (I mean, not cool, but it's good to know.)

So, should I just wait for a response to my getting help message or is there something else we should do?

No, you have stated your message clearly. Just make sure that you don't flame or spam at the eledged griefers. Be patient, is my advise.
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CorinThe
The getting help section! (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) (for all your gaming problems)http://69.57.141.218/333/102/emo/xmastongue.gif
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Corinthe, I love your Christmas smile! :lol: I think you should change the coloring of your name to Christmas colors. 8)

Corinthe, I love your Christmas smile! :lol: I think you should change the coloring of your name to Christmas colors. 8) Thank you :)

Not yet, but soon you'll see them in Chrismassy red and green :)
I still have to put some christmas decoration on my forum 8)
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CorinThe
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Paxsaria
Good luck with regaining control of your former region, sounds like you've been the victim of Piracy. Perhaps an idea for a proposal if one doesn't already exist. 'Your rights to regain control from Pirates and Hijackers'.

Regards, Ian

Paxsaria
Good luck with regaining control of your former region, sounds like you've been the victim of Piracy. Perhaps an idea for a proposal if one doesn't already exist. 'Your rights to regain control from Pirates and Hijackers'.

Regards, Ian

Are you talking about UN proposals?

Such a UN proposal would be a proposal to change game mechanics (or a proposal to change game rules). In either case, such a proposal is not acceptable for the NationStates United Nations and will be deleted.

I should further caution that anyone who submits such a proposal will eb warned for submitting bad proposals. Three bad submissions is punished by ejection from the UN.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

Three bad submissions is punished by ejection from the UN.

After they are ejected, are they allowed back into the UN?

Paxsaria
Good luck with regaining control of your former region, sounds like you've been the victim of Piracy. Perhaps an idea for a proposal if one doesn't already exist. 'Your rights to regain control from Pirates and Hijackers'.

Regards, Ian

Are you talking about UN proposals?

Such a UN proposal would be a proposal to change game mechanics (or a proposal to change game rules). In either case, such a proposal is not acceptable for the NationStates United Nations and will be deleted.

I should further caution that anyone who submits such a proposal will eb warned for submitting bad proposals. Three bad submissions is punished by ejection from the UN.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

I have no plans to form a proposal of the sort I mentioned, but surely there are certain rights for victims of this kind of act, the UN surely has a role to protect it's nation members.

Three bad submissions is punished by ejection from the UN.
After they are ejected, are they allowed back into the UN?
I think they have to use a different nation to re-enter, as the offending one is banned.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

I should further caution that anyone who submits such a proposal will eb warned for submitting bad proposals. Three bad submissions is punished by ejection from the UN.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

Wow, tough policy. Almost makes me afraid to submit a proposal. I hope that moderators have a bit of consideration of who's on the other side of the line. You're not gonna eject someone for persistence and lack of knowledge, right? :? I, for myself, would never submit a proposal. With my English it is certain to bounce :P
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CorinThe
The getting help section! (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) (for all your gaming problems)http://69.57.141.218/333/102/emo/xmastongue.gif
Pacific freedom force (http://s2.invisionfree.com/The_Pacific/)

I have no plans to form a proposal of the sort I mentioned, but surely there are certain rights for victims of this kind of act, the UN surely has a role to protect it's nation members.

The in-game United Nations exists to pass resolutions that make changes to the numerical statistics (most these numbers are hidden from ordinary players) of UN member nations. It serves no other purpose.

Wow, tough policy. Almost makes me afraid to submit a proposal.

Post ideas for UN proposals to the United Nations forum (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=3) prior to submitting it to the United Nations (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=un) for consideration. This should give you the best chances of not being warned for submitting bad proposals.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

We've seen no change in the situation in the old region since submitting a getting help message late last week, so shall I assume that we're on our own?

Would this be legal: each of the natives still banned from our original region creates a new nation in the original region, resigns the old dislocated nation from the UN, and then joins the UN with our new nations? We can then attempt another takeover from within. Are we then invaders or natives? (We wouldn't have to do it this way if the native nations weren't banned from the region.)

Ah... this reminds me of when Western Europe got taken over. Same thing happened, invaders swarm in, take over, kick out anyone who questions them, then get deleted and the natives move back in.

To answer your question though, taking over a region from grieferss that kicked you out and banning them is not considered griefing, I believe. It is taking back what's yours.

I am suprised the Game Mods haven't dealt with this yet, but give it a few more days.

BTW Paxsaria, if the mods do decide that this isn't greifing, I'm sure I can find some people willing to help you take your region back.

(note: I'd want to wait for mod advice on this, as starting sooner would confuse the issue and be potentially dangerous)