NationStates Jolt Archive


Is or is not flaming and baiting discouraged?

Katganistan
04-12-2003, 20:09
Well, I suppose special needs people can access the internet better than ever before.

Excuse me, but is it REALLY necessary to be abusively insulting about people you don't agree with?

I have seen in the past weeks comments like this and worse posted on this site, and apparently, for some , it passes without comment, and for others, it is cause for warning and deletion.

I am offended that some feel they can refer to others as mentally retarded, socially retarded, inferior, and moronic and that apparently, this is approved of tacitly since nothing is said or done to stop it.

I would appreciate it if the flaming and baiting rules were applied equally to everyone.
Sirocco
04-12-2003, 20:14
Fact is we moderators can't read every single post in the forum... if you feel that someone's crossing the line in the forums then report it in the Moderation forum (preferably with a link)
Katganistan
04-12-2003, 20:21
Fact is we moderators can't read every single post in the forum... if you feel that someone's crossing the line in the forums then report it in the Moderation forum (preferably with a link)

I understand that, Sirocco -- this is simply the latest in a long line from a large laundry list of nations that do this.

Linky, linky.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=99757
Katganistan
05-12-2003, 05:43
bump
05-12-2003, 12:32
[quote=Someone on the Hippos thread said...]Well, I suppose special needs people can access the internet better than ever before.

This statement on it's own is true.
Tactical Grace
05-12-2003, 12:36
But the implied meaning can be questionable. This sort of thing can often be defused by a few words from us, but only if we know it's happening.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator
Katganistan
05-12-2003, 13:12
This is the kind of thing that irritates me greatly. These comments were made regarding other NationStates users, yet are ignored and even justified.

Legoverland, I can hardly believe that someone who posts as intelligently as you do does not see that that was meant as an insult. No matter how much backpedaling and "but it's true" justification is made, someone just called other members of this board retarded (the context is as important as the actual sentence, remember), in a thread where a moderator was posting, and there was no comment indicating that this is inappropriate.

I thank you, Tactical Grace, for responding to my post. Here is how I feel on the subject: it was responded to fairly immediately by a mod who told me more information was necessary; I responded immediately with the information, and it was ignored until I bumped it near midnight my time last night. I know you guys are busy, but it really does feel as if it were not going to be responded to, and would have been let to fall off the first page to die without further comment.

The antics of the General Forumites who decide to Suicide-by-Mod are certainly not supported by me (nor will they ever be imitated by me), but I am beginning to see their frustration. There really do seem to be two sets of rules -- or at least, the rules are applied in two different ways, dependant upon on where you post.

I ask that anyone who chooses to join this discussion please do so in a respectful manner; it is not my intention to start a flamewar or another chorus of the mods suck. They do not suck -- they have a difficult job for which they get little thanks and no pay. It is simply my intention to calmly discuss the fact that there is, in my opinion, a problem which we should be able to work out.
Tactical Grace
05-12-2003, 13:20
Thing is, sometimes there is no Mod coverage, either because we are offline or we cannot get into the Forums. And the General Forum is a difficult thing to moderate. There are numerous threads in there, with the number of pages close to or in the double figures, on subjects such as race, religion and America. It is obvious flame territory, but getting through the whole lot is impossible. If people really do feel strongly about a comment made, we really do need a link to a specific page posted in the Moderation Forum. And although sometimes we can deal with it within minutes, other times it could be hours. There is no getting around it, I'm afraid, we are volunteers.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator
Katganistan
05-12-2003, 13:29
Thing is, sometimes there is no Mod coverage, either because we are offline or we cannot get into the Forums. And the General Forum is a difficult thing to moderate. There are numerous threads in there, with the number of pages close to or in the double figures, on subjects such as race, religion and America. It is obvious flame territory, but getting through the whole lot is impossible. If people really do feel strongly about a comment made, we really do need a link to a specific page posted in the Moderation Forum. And although sometimes we can deal with it within minutes, other times it could be hours. There is no getting around it, I'm afraid, we are volunteers.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

I understand that. I am not trying to blame you. Just for reference though, the link above goes to the HIPPOS ARE BIG!!!! five page thread that you also commented on, and that thread was posted here in Moderation. I understand General can be a morass of flames, and I see your point about there being too many people behaving badly to always be Johnny-or-Jane-on-the-Spot, but when it happens right in Moderation it's a sign, IMHO, that there is the attitude I outlined above.
Texastambul
05-12-2003, 13:37
Well, I suppose special needs people can access the internet better than ever before.

Excuse me, but is it REALLY necessary to be abusively insulting about people you don't agree with?


:idea: that's it? special needs!? wtf is the big deal?


<----------------- when I'm MOD everyone DIES
Katganistan
05-12-2003, 14:29
Well, I suppose special needs people can access the internet better than ever before.

Excuse me, but is it REALLY necessary to be abusively insulting about people you don't agree with?


:idea: that's it? special needs!? wtf is the big deal?


<----------------- when I'm MOD everyone DIES

Thank you, Texastambul, for proving my point.
Petworthia
05-12-2003, 15:03
Firstly, I'd like to say that whilst unpleasant, ill thought out and generally rude.. the comment on the Hippo thread ISN'T flaming.. reason being, it's not directed at a player (or nation)... it COULD potentially be considered flame baiting.. especially if the writer KNEW there were some people with special needs who post here, but I think the Mods would have difficulty making that stick.

Secondly.. I don't think there is a disparity between the general and R/P forums. People who post to RP are doing so in teh prior knowledge that things are done In Character, meaning insults are directed at their character and not them.... (mostly!!)

As for the Mods.. as TG has said, they simply CAN'T be everywhere, and mostly, the General players can look after themselves.

Lets face it.. how big an issue is flaming anyway... consider the number of posts made a day and then the number OF those posts that contain 'flames'.. it's not too bad!
Katganistan
05-12-2003, 15:14
Thanks for your reasoned response, Petworthia.

I suppose that is true, but I still feel that this behavior is accepted in RP players when referring to others OOCly. There has been a lot of name calling lately, referring to Generalites particularly in this manner.

I can see that absolutely nothing will come of this, and that this behavior will continue to be acceptable for some and not for others.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
Petworthia
05-12-2003, 15:30
Thanks for your reasoned response, Petworthia.

I suppose that is true, but I still feel that this behavior is accepted in RP players when referring to others OOCly. There has been a lot of name calling lately, referring to Generalites particularly in this manner.

I can see that absolutely nothing will come of this, and that this behavior will continue to be acceptable for some and not for others.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

:) Nice Quote!!

I don't know if you caught my thread the other day on flaming? I question whether Mods should Police the forums (as best tehy can through their resources), or whether they should only respond to actual complaints.

i.e. if I'm in General in a heated 'debate' with player a, and he says something flaming.. should the Mods bust him for it, or wait for me to make a complaint about it. My point here being, that some people have a higher tolerance than others and will just shrug it off.
Free Denmark
05-12-2003, 15:40
Yeah, it really is a shame that some people doesn't know how to behave. But I think that some of the flaming is caused by mistake, in that the flamers write in character, where this is not clear. I myself have, sadly, commited that error once.
05-12-2003, 16:56
This is the kind of thing that irritates me greatly. These comments were made regarding other NationStates users, yet are ignored and even justified.

Legoverland, I can hardly believe that someone who posts as intelligently as you do does not see that that was meant as an insult. No matter how much backpedaling and "but it's true" justification is made, someone just called other members of this board retarded (the context is as important as the actual sentence, remember), in a thread where a moderator was posting, and there was no comment indicating that this is inappropriate.

Katganistan, sometimes you have to take a knock, people will always make mistakes, have you tried speaking with the nation responsible for that remark, ask them for an explanation, let them know you disapprove.

If your response from them is personally insulting to you, then further action could be justified.

The comment itself IS true, but if it was intended as an insult, you sometimes need to ignore heated or spur of the moment remarks up to a certain level. The issue was to do with 'Hippos are Big' which raised some interesting views regarding wildlife conservation, some people are just a little ignorant to the complete picture.

Regards,
Ian
Texastambul
06-12-2003, 02:00
I can see that absolutely nothing will come of this, and that this behavior will continue to be acceptable for some and not for others.
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

:idea: actually, a better Orwellian analogy would be from 1984: the part where the children spy on their parents and turn them in for thought crime... maybe it is only in Texas that tattle-telling is more childish than name calling


<----------------- when I'm MOD everyone DIES
Omz222
06-12-2003, 03:31
I have seen in the past weeks comments like this and worse posted on this site, and apparently, for some , it passes without comment, and for others, it is cause for warning and deletion.

Well, as said, this is a huge forum with 1 million+ posts and an average of 10-20 pages of threads with new posts every day in each "very popular" forum (IMO General, NationStates, International Incidents). It would be entirely impossible for the moderators to check every thread. Think it this way: would the teachers at your school be able to track every insult a student has thrown at someone else? Definately no.

About the insult, while the statement could be true, I'd say that such statement inside a thread about an UN proposal could be seen as flaming. Sure, the person didn't seems to be directing the insult at any person, he probably did, in this nature, to the person who made the "unfit" proposal.

About flaming, the only way to really avoid major flame wars, etc. as I can see it is ignore and report, and you don't have a flame war esculating.
Katganistan
06-12-2003, 04:09
I can see that absolutely nothing will come of this, and that this behavior will continue to be acceptable for some and not for others.
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

:idea: actually, a better Orwellian analogy would be from 1984: the part where the children spy on their parents and turn them in for thought crime... maybe it is only in Texas that tattle-telling is more childish than name calling


<----------------- when I'm MOD everyone DIES

Texastambul, please remove yourself from my thread -- since you have nothing better to do than skate as close as possible to flaming and baiting.
06-12-2003, 04:33
Imo one shiuld just ignore that. When it occurs multiple times and such, then you can do something else against it on this forum; ie. complain here about it.
Texastambul
06-12-2003, 08:10
Texastambul, please remove yourself from my thread -- since you have nothing better to do than skate as close as possible to flaming and baiting.
:idea: so there we have it... apparently being "close" to "flaming and baiting" is a thought-crime too...



<------------ when I'm MOD everyone DIES


(seriously, is "special needs" really that big of an offense? That's sorta up there with "Dufas" and "Weirdo")
06-12-2003, 10:54
Texastambul, please remove yourself from my thread -- since you have nothing better to do than skate as close as possible to flaming and baiting.
:idea: so there we have it... apparently being "close" to "flaming and baiting" is a thought-crime too...



<------------ when I'm MOD everyone DIES


(seriously, is "special needs" really that big of an offense? That's sorta up there with "Dufas" and "Weirdo")

Hang on Tex, what happened here was someone made an 'offensive' remark, Katganistan reported it which is the correct thing to do. It is now in the hands of the moderators.

Why can't the Mods 'once notified' edit out any unneccessary or hurtful remarks, send a message of warning to the guilty party and end it there.