NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been witnessing the recent turmoil over DEATs and bans and "evil Mods" and "satanic spammers", and I've really seen a problem that could damage this community. I have a proposal to make on this, one that I think could rectify this problem: An Official Nation States Code of Law. Here's my prototype idea:
A Formalized List of Offenses Complete with Consequences
Obviously, there would be issues with degree, so I propose the following categories of each offense:

Minor Offenses
[list=a:91aa415c57] Humorous Spam
Pre-Baited Flame
Accidental N00b Errors
Major Offenses
Spamming Another Persons Post
Making A Spam Thread NOT in General
Mild Flaiming
N00b-ish Errors
Capital Offenses
Spamming Offensively
Multi-Threading
Pure Flaiming/Baiting
Trolling
UN Multiing
Griefing

Now, each degree of each Class of Offense (Spam, Flame, Whatever), would have small range of punishments pre-declared
Right to Fair Trial
A Nation Can See WHY It Was Punished
The Responsible Mod is Declared (Right to Face the Accuser)
The Nation Can but does not have to Appeal the Decision for Minor Offenses, But Appealed Decisions Turned Down Result in Harsher Punishment (because they take time)

Perhaps a review council of fellow (respected) nations to check the legitamacy of punishment and recommend action if a evaluation is requested. UN multi investigations are not under the jurisdiction of this "court".
I think a version of a formal legal code would be beneficial to our NS Community
[/list:o:91aa415c57]

-Dominion of Kaukolastan
-Open to Comments

Thank you, Stephistan, for undoing my bad luck. :D

Anywho, in this thread's doppleganger, someone asked about the contingency and log jam ---> I would say that the "Capital" Class Offenses would be auto-DEAT, while the others would be debatable. After all, Goatze is as goatze does, and everyone knows it on sight, while honest mistakes and "was this flame?" arguments are more clouded.

THIS POST REGARDS THE POST BELOW IT.

Now, the problem with this is time. The mods just don't have the time or the resources to give every spammer, flamer, and goatze-poster a fair trial. And what should they do with the spam, flame, or goatze in the meantime? Delete it and delete their only evidence? Who would advocate for the mods, and the offender? Who would oversee the proceedings? It's not that easy. The way we have now works, and it's not likely to change. Even if it's unpopular, it works.

I'm interested in comments, especially from the Mods.

What about the people that won't particpate in the trials? Or the ones that mass spam with a bunch of illeagal names? Are we going to have a trail for each one? This would be time consuming.

Mods are picked because of their great judgement. They don't need a court system to do that for them. What's the point of a mod if this happens?

It's an intresting idea, but it requires work. :)

~Bas

Well, my theory is that a trial is only given for minor offenses, and upon request in that case. I'll insert that in the first post.

Trials are a good idea, but I think that they would create more problems. It would take more work for the mods to delete a country. And like the RL legal system things would get bogged down with red tape. The current mods are over worked and under payed. Trials would just double their work load. the Rules are clear, to what is acceptable.

I think it's a good idea. And to all the people saying that there will be red-tape, this isn't going to eliminate common sense. Some things would be able to circumvent the system. Illegal names, animals, currency, etc.

And as far as workload, exactly what is the problem with getting additional mods?

I see your point. Well, this just ideas, but the main focus of my idea is on:

Formal Rules for All to See (So You Know EXACTLY What Happens for Your Offense
You are informed WHY you were punished
You are informed by WHOM you were punished (This has two purposes: It kills the "Who DEATed Me?" Threads and may make an angry mod stay his/her hand from the DEAT button.)


Everything else is just other ideas.

I see your point. Well, this just ideas, but the main focus of my idea is on:

Formal Rules for All to See (So You Know EXACTLY What Happens for Your Offense
You are informed WHY you were punished
You are informed by WHOM you were punished (This has two purposes: It kills the "Who DEATed Me?" Threads and may make an angry mod stay his/her hand from the DEAT button.)


Everything else is just other ideas.

I will agree, this is a good idea.

I see your point. Well, this just ideas, but the main focus of my idea is on:
Formal Rules for All to See (So You Know EXACTLY What Happens for Your Offense


These are in the FAQ


You are informed WHY you were punished

Often done upon request already (see the OMG NOEZ TEH BEEK thread).


You are informed by WHOM you were punished (This has two purposes: It kills the "Who DEATed Me?" Threads and may make an angry mod stay his/her hand from the DEAT button.)


Well, then the mods will just start operating under the cover of the NS Mod Collective.

One ESPECIALLY big problem with the trial idea: UN multis. Salusa has said that they will not disclose the proccess that they use to determine UN multis, so there would be no way to have a trial. It's already one of the more frequently appealed mod actions, and having trials for everything else would make a lot of people feel like they are not being given a chance.

I see your point. Well, this just ideas, but the main focus of my idea is on:
Formal Rules for All to See (So You Know EXACTLY What Happens for Your Offense


These are in the FAQ
But not with responses.

No other comments or suggestions?

State that UN multi investigations are beyond the jurisdiction of this court.

Done.

I can see a few problems with this.

The first is that if we were required to give a reason for the deletion of every nation, we could never hope to keep up, especially during major spamming incidents. Currently, players are given a gentle nudge for minor stuff, a warning for more serious stuff, and deletion for an accumulation of the latter or major offences. The guilty man always knows the crime, and in many cases further clarification is unnecessary.

Secondly, is that without naming names, some players play the indignant sarcasm and mock innocence game after a warning or deletion, and inevitably, there are those who side with them.

Thirdly, the idea of players having any formal role in the process, even as a reviewing body, is not going to be entertained, and not only because of the second Mod layer business. It would mean a whole new time-consuming bureaucracy.

Fourthly, a single, formal and exhaustive rule set is very unlikely to be entertained, as this would be seen as imposing solid boundaries, where there are in fact grey areas.

Fifthly, these issues have all been discussed before, and the decision was always in the negative, for broadly the reasons I have outlined. I cannot see the policy changing.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

I certainly think there should be some sort of system where people can actually see why they were deleted without having to post here.
There should also be a formal appeals process, instead of just constantly nagging the mods.

I certainly think there should be some sort of system where people can actually see why they were deleted without having to post here.
There should also be a formal appeals process, instead of just constantly nagging the mods.

Something we've been tossing around and is not unlikely to be implemented in the future.

i shall kill you with my fremens

i shall kill you with my fremens
:idea: In my system, this would be a "Major" class offense.

what's a fremens? (or do i want to know this?)

Bah such ignorance. You shall be fed to Shai'hulud

Skaarj, knock it off right now buddy. I'm sure you've got a lovely little character going, but this is an OOC forum and absolutely not the right place to go ranting and raving like a madman.

Understood?

I think it's a great idea. Why not run a pilot and see how it goes?

what's a fremens? (or do i want to know this?)

Read the book Dune by Frank Herbert and you'll understand.

Good Book migh I add.

[/hijacking]

I feel that the current system that we have is fine. In my experience most issues are dealt with within a decent amount of time

Bleh sorry many apologies.

Bleh sorry many apologies.

Accepted and understood.

Oh and Shai'hulud would also like to know the meaning of "OOC". He never understood what it meant.

OOC = "out of character"
IC = "in character"

So when you're IC, you're this nation with the legal system and leader and so on that you've created based on the book. You go around declaring war on people etc etc etc.

When you're OOC, you're just your normal self - sometimes quite different from the character you've got going on in your role-playing. This entire forum (and in fact all of the Nuts & Bolts section) is OOC.

OOC = "out of character"
IC = "in character"

So when you're IC, you're this nation with the legal system and leader and so on that you've created based on the book. You go around declaring war on people etc etc etc.

When you're OOC, you're just your normal self - sometimes quite different from the character you've got going on in your role-playing. This entire forum (and in fact all of the Nuts & Bolts section) is OOC.
For example: My IC Self is a power seeking imperialist with a bend for world domination. My OOC self is a nice college student who tries to help others, goes to class, and plots world domination. I mean...

o ok ty

what's a fremens? (or do i want to know this?)

Read the book Dune by Frank Herbert and you'll understand.

Good Book migh I add.

[/hijacking]

I feel that the current system that we have is fine. In my experience most issues are dealt with within a decent amount of time

Any reasonably minded player would have to agree with you about issues being delt with effectively, but the creation of this type of system seems like the next logical step in the evolution of NS. I think it would put an interesting spin on the game.

I'd like to see it given at least a chance.

[edit for spelling - D'oh!!]