NationStates Jolt Archive

He's been fine, and yet he was suddenly deleted for no reason!
Why on earth?

Beeker was deleted for repeated violations of Nationstates ToS. No further clarification is needed.

~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Game Mod

Submitted for the record:
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Ok, I don't want to piss you off too much, but I do think clarification is needed.

Noone has complained about him in the forum, he's way better behaved since he came back, and he has no idea why this happened.

So I think some clarification would be nice.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

if you cant tell us why beeks was deleted, then you must be hiding something. *said with absolutely NO sarcasm or anything like that*

-mari

Ok, seeing as Beeks can't come back, he has asked through me why he was deleted. Please clarify.

Beeker was deleted for repeated violations of Nationstates ToS. No further clarification is needed.

~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Game Mod

How arrogant!

A power unto yourself, no explanations needed.

You might not think beeks did anything wrong but he did that the last time he was deleted. He knew what he did wrong the last time. He was given many many chances and was punished. The mods do not have to explain their actions to you.

If they chose to delete him then there was a reason for him being deleted. If you cant handle that...then well sorry but too bad. If Beeker is too silly to accept that he broke the ToS once more then that's his problem.

Personaly I hope he never comes back there'll be most likely an IQ rise in the peoples of the general forum now.

With Love.

Iraqstani #4443532145

Iraqstan, you are an idiot.

Beeks does not know why he was deleted this time.

And I think it is only fair that they tell him why it was this time, as he has been better behaved.

Beeker was deleted for repeated violations of Nationstates ToS. No further clarification is needed.

~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Game Mod

Okay, but what did rule did he violate this time that got him deleted?

Ok, seeing as Beeks can't come back, he has asked through me why he was deleted. Please clarify.

Beeks was IP banned?

Beeker was deleted for repeated violations of Nationstates ToS. No further clarification is needed.

~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Game Mod

I think this speaks for itself. The mods can, and do, refuse to justify their decisions to users. It's their right. It's not an abuse of power, it's a power that exists specifically to be used.

Except until now, all their deletions have been explainable.

This one isn't. And of course they can refuse to explain. However, they will piss off more people than they have ever done before if they do.

Did this come about because of the thread where we were going back and forth at each other? Is that what is responsible for this latest deletion? I think that we could have handled that between us. We had already started to calm down when he was deleted.

Did this come about because of the thread where we were going back and forth at each other? Is that what is responsible for this latest deletion? I think that we could have handled that between us. We had already started to calm down when he was deleted.

Hmm....linky?

EDIT: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2267793&highlight=#2267793, methinks. Correct me if I'm wrong.

given that Beeker/Beeks has had a long history with this site, i think he deserves to at least be told the reason for his deletion. the mods have proved time and time again that they have the power to delete at will and offer no explanation, but i think they could show some basic respect with out taking too much time away from their requisite oppression of the masses.

Yes, that's the one, Goobergunchia.

I find this to be absolutely assanine. As of late i found that beeks was a humorous and enjoyable part of NS' forums who gave the forums a bit of spice with his whit.

The mods, though usually write in their decisions i believe, have made a mistake by deleting beeks.

I have witnessed Beeks flame on several occasions. There have been rumors of sexual harassment. These could be possibilities.

Beeker was deleted for repeated violations of Nationstates ToS. No further clarification is needed.

~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Game Mod

I think this speaks for itself. The mods can, and do, refuse to justify their decisions to users. It's their right. It's not an abuse of power, it's a power that exists specifically to be used.

We go through this every time a popular player gets deleted for no immediately apparent reason. Players want to know what happened, and the mods are generally reluctant to tell them. Of course, the mods aren't obligated to justify their actions; we all know that by now. But what is there to gain from refusing an explanation? I don't understand why the mods don't spare themselves the annoyance of player complaints by saying, "Beeker got deleted for X. We can see examples of this in threads Y and Z. End of story."

Let's not speculate, please. (in response to Eridanus' post)

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Beeker was deleted for repeated violations of Nationstates ToS. No further clarification is needed.

~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Game Mod

I think this speaks for itself. The mods can, and do, refuse to justify their decisions to users. It's their right. It's not an abuse of power, it's a power that exists specifically to be used.

They do have that power. However, IMHO it's not helping anyone to keep it secret like this. I bet (or at least hope) people would be able to accept the reason for the DEATion and move on. For all we know, there's a very good reason. *shrugs*

Did this come about because of the thread where we were going back and forth at each other? Is that what is responsible for this latest deletion? I think that we could have handled that between us. We had already started to calm down when he was deleted.

Hmm....linky?

EDIT: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2267793&highlight=#2267793, methinks. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Surely not! I though that was rather tame....


In other news.... I didn't like my smiting thread being locked :(

Beeker was deleted for repeated violations of Nationstates ToS. No further clarification is needed.

~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Game Mod

I think this speaks for itself. The mods can, and do, refuse to justify their decisions to users. It's their right. It's not an abuse of power, it's a power that exists specifically to be used.

We go through this every time a popular player gets deleted for no immediately apparent reason. Players want to know what happened, and the mods are generally reluctant to tell them. Of course, the mods aren't obligated to justify their actions; we all know that by now. But what is there to gain from refusing an explanation? I don't understand why the mods don't spare themselves the annoyance of player complaints by saying, "Beeker got deleted for X. We can see examples of this in threads Y and Z. End of story."

Marathon's deletion was accompanied by a lengthy post signed by several moderators explaining the reasons. I felt that that was a very good way of handling the situation.

Beeks does not know why he was deleted this time.

And I think it is only fair that they tell him why it was this time, as he has been better behaved. If Beeks has been IP banned then it must have been for a single serious rule violation or a combination of smaller violations that accumulated over time. The Mods do have a right to do this.
I am not defending nor condemning Beeks, for I have seen him warned on a few occasions for his actions (although, just simple warnings, like "knock it off").
So if he has been IP banned let him rest.
If he has not been IP banned he can start a new nation, but he will have to behave himself. The Mods do watch for new nations from deleted nations IP's.

Did this come about because of the thread where we were going back and forth at each other? Is that what is responsible for this latest deletion? I think that we could have handled that between us. We had already started to calm down when he was deleted.

Hmm....linky?

EDIT: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2267793&highlight=#2267793, methinks. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Surely not! I though that was rather tame....


Watch it Spaam they may delete you as well

In other news.... I didn't like my smiting thread being locked :(

Beeker was deleted for repeated violations of Nationstates ToS. No further clarification is needed.

~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Game Mod

I think this speaks for itself. The mods can, and do, refuse to justify their decisions to users. It's their right. It's not an abuse of power, it's a power that exists specifically to be used.

We go through this every time a popular player gets deleted for no immediately apparent reason. Players want to know what happened, and the mods are generally reluctant to tell them. Of course, the mods aren't obligated to justify their actions; we all know that by now. But what is there to gain from refusing an explanation? I don't understand why the mods don't spare themselves the annoyance of player complaints by saying, "Beeker got deleted for X. We can see examples of this in threads Y and Z. End of story."

Marathon's deletion was accompanied by a lengthy post signed by several moderators explaining the reasons. I felt that that was a very good way of handling the situation.

Exactly. The mods took a lot of heat for deleting Marathon, because he had been around for so long. But they would have taken twice as much if they had just deleted him with no explanation. Beeks is enough of a General forum regular that some explanation seems warranted.

Just because Beeker deserves an explanation does not mean it needs to be posted here. That is strictly between Beeker and the Mods, and will be kept that way unless he decides to tell everyone. If he'd like to know, then someone can provide his email address to which a Mod can send an email informing him of the reasons for his deletion.

Well, as far as I've seen, players harrass the mods whether or not the mods explain to you why they did what they did (which they don't have to). So, when faced with endless questions of "why" versus endless repetitive arguments why the reason is invalid, why should the mods waste the effort of trying to explain? They'll get harrassed and abused anyway.

Where do you want me to send his email address Neut?

nuttythemod@yahoo.com

Well, as far as I've seen, players harrass the mods whether or not the mods explain to you why they did what they did (which they don't have to). So, when faced with endless questions of "why" versus endless repetitive arguments why the reason is invalid, why should the mods waste the effort of trying to explain? They'll get harrassed and abused anyway.

Because it's the right thing to do?

Because it's the right thing to do?

The right thing to do? Really? Why? Where does it say in the FAQ that you are entitled to know the details of a private matter between the mods and another player? Just because he was popular?

I can think of a few reasons the mods might not want to explain their decision:

1. Mod: "Beeks got deleted for X."
All: "But he didn't do X!"
Mod: "Yes, he did"
All: "No, he didn't!"
(repeat)

2. Mod: "Beeks got deleted for X."
All: "But X isn't that bad!"
Mod: "Yes, it is."
All: "No, it isn't!"
(repeat)

3. Mod: "Beeks got deleted for X."
All: "OK"
(later...)
All: "Why did -so and so- get deleted?"
Mod: "I don't have to tell you."
All: "Aw, but you told us about Beeks! We've learned that if we bug you enough, you'll tell! Tell! Tell!"

I'll admit, I would like to know, partly out of curiosity, and partly because every deletion I know about helps me avoid or delay my own deletion. But I also have some sympathy for the mods.

Sent.

And shush Manmen.

I can think of a few reasons the mods might not want to explain their decision:

1. Mod: "Beeks got deleted for X."
All: "But he didn't do X!"
Mod: "Yes, he did"
All: "No, he didn't!"
(repeat)

2. Mod: "Beeks got deleted for X."
All: "But X isn't that bad!"
Mod: "Yes, it is."
All: "No, it isn't!"
(repeat)

3. Mod: "Beeks got deleted for X."
All: "OK"
(later...)
All: "Why did -so and so- get deleted?"
Mod: "I don't have to tell you."
All: "Aw, but you told us about Beeks! We've learned that if we bug you enough, you'll tell! Tell! Tell!"

I'll admit, I would like to know, partly out of curiosity, and partly because every deletion I know about helps me avoid or delay my own deletion. But I also have some sympathy for the mods.

Precisely my point!

The right thing to do? Really? Why? Where does it say in the FAQ that you are entitled to know the details of a private matter between the mods and another player? Just because he was popular?

If you knew me...you'd know that I wasn't that big a fan of beeker. No, it's the right thing to do, just like not cheating on a loved one, or talking about people behind their back, or cleaning up your place at the dinner table. There's no rule or law, but it's common curtesy to do some things, like holding open doors, being polite, telling people why they've been punished.

Although it's now a moot point given that Neut has offered to give Beeks the reason. <shrugs>

Well, as far as I've seen, players harrass the mods whether or not the mods explain to you why they did what they did (which they don't have to). So, when faced with endless questions of "why" versus endless repetitive arguments why the reason is invalid, why should the mods waste the effort of trying to explain? They'll get harrassed and abused anyway.

I'm sure that's the way it seems sometimes, given the whiny nature of many players. But I'm pretty sure that a good explanation cuts off a lot of the complaints. If a mod says "X was deleted for spamming," and posts a few links to obvious spam, a lot of players will be satisfied. Others won't, but at least there are significantly fewer complaints and questions that there would have been with an unexplained deletion.

Beeker is the only person to whom the mods should reveal the reason for his deletion, provided it is not glaringly obvious (Like Blues Islands' suicide. I won't miss him.). The mods don't have to reveal why they do something. It's not the right thing to do. It's a courtesy, like you said, voluntary.

Let's not speculate, please. (in response to Eridanus' post)

Why? All this thread is, is speculation. The mods refuse too tell us why they deleted Beeks, so we must speculate. I remember a thread about....I think it was Little Danya saying something about Beeks sexually harrassing her. Maybe the mods investigated it and found that it was true, and deleted him. Or more likelly is that they finally got tired of his puchy, arrogant attitude, and deleted him.

Well, I suppose those that know me will not be surprised to hear that I'm very sad that beeks has gone. Sputnik, can you just clear up whether he's been IP banned or not?

Beeker is the only person to whom the mods should reveal the reason for his deletion, provided it is not glaringly obvious (Like Blues Islands' suicide. I won't miss him.). The mods don't have to reveal why they do something. It's not the right thing to do. It's a courtesy, like you said, voluntary.

One can only hope gratutitous sucking-up is a deletable offense... :roll:

I'll put my money on a crack down of spam. Take a look at the posts that were locked in the general, and look at what the mod's have to say, especially in that Spaam's smite the server post. The mod's are getting peeved.

Or it could be just more unecessary speculation.

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Beeker is the only person to whom the mods should reveal the reason for his deletion, provided it is not glaringly obvious (Like Blues Islands' suicide. I won't miss him.). The mods don't have to reveal why they do something. It's not the right thing to do. It's a courtesy, like you said, voluntary.

Well, of course it's voluntary. I never said that it wasn't, but I do believe that it is the right thing to do. Just like I believe curtesy is the right thing to do. But, we're getting of the subject here.

Guys, did you ever think that perhaps the mods aren't discussing this because it's something that's better not to discuss? Not all information is in the public good.

One can only hope gratutitous sucking-up is a deletable offense... :roll:

Sucking up? Heh. So, arguing a point is sucking up. Defending the decisions of the mods is sucking up. Well, if having respect for someone with authority makes me a suckup, then perhaps General needs more suckups and fewer blind antimods.

Guys, did you ever think that perhaps the mods aren't discussing this because it's something that's better not to discuss? Not all information is in the public good.

Possible, but I've always believe that the more information, the better.

Meh...since Beeker will be notified, I think he has the right to choose whether we should know about it or not. It's his deletion, after all.

Sucking up? Heh. So, arguing a point is sucking up. Defending the decisions of the mods is sucking up. Well, if having respect for someone with authority makes me a suckup, then perhaps General needs more suckups and fewer blind antimods.
Don't get me wrong- I'm sure he deserved it, and quite frankly I couldn't care less. I just don't like brown-nosing modwannabes; no one really does. If I've got you pegged wrong, I apologize...

Guys, did you ever think that perhaps the mods aren't discussing this because it's something that's better not to discuss? Not all information is in the public good.

It was nothing bad I dont think...just an accumulation of warnings I suppose :?

Don't get me wrong- I'm sure he deserved it, and quite frankly I couldn't care less. I just don't like brown-nosing modwannabes; no one really does. If I've got you pegged wrong, I apologize...

I'm not arguing this point to gain the favor of the mods. I'm arguing it because I consider several of them my friends, and I don't like seeing them swamped in this kind of stuff. Like a friend, I support their decisions. I'm not a brown noser, I just like and respect them, and I have a tiny inkling of what enduring this kind of stuff day in and day out - simply because they volunteered to keep this forum civil - is like.

everyone can now calm down. Beeks is back. His new nation just posted in General. So no IP ban was done.
Back off and let the Mods do their stuff. It is why this game is fun after all.

I sort of like the idea of people not posting in order to protest.
I say go for it.
:wink:
*Listens to peace and silence* "Ahhh, much better."

It amazing that he can have multiple nations deleted, yet have so many knowing nations come out and support him, and ask what such an innocent player could have done. I agree, he should get an explination, but what I am shocked by is the general shock and disgust with the implication that he might break a rule. He has done it before, and if he was accused unjustly I hope he gets his nation back. But would it suprise me if he flamed or something, no he has done it before, and been openly disrespectful to mod for the simple motivation that he can.

So, I hope he is innocent, he has a lot of freinds on here. But lets not be fools and jump on the mods like we can't believe such a thing could happen.

I recieved my e-mail...it didn't clarify anything at all...I would like specific instances where I have been breaking the rules which is more severe than any other nation on NS...My case...in the words of Reprod was deemed High-Profile...how ridiculous...I am just a normal player like anyone else...yet again I am recieving special attention from the Moderators...I am a nice guy...hell...even the nazis respect me...I dont see the problem you have with me... :?

This was profiling wasn't it? It reminds me of Martha Stewart. No offense meant to Beeks. In her instance she faces 10yrs in jail for doing what many stock traders do on a daily basis. Hmm... NS mirroring RL. Interesting.

Normally, when a nation gets banned, there are public warnings from Moderators, telling said nation that they are breaking the rules and warning them of future conduct.

I would like to politely request that one of the mods post links to these (this, as I realise you only technically get one warning!) post.

Thanks

I've always meant to ask. When a nation gets deleted, are ALL their posts also deleted automatically?

I've always meant to ask. When a nation gets deleted, are ALL their posts also deleted automatically?

Not automatically, no.

I've always meant to ask. When a nation gets deleted, are ALL their posts also deleted automatically?

Not automatically, no.

oh.... in which case, may I ask why it was done this time? He must have had close to 3000 posts, it seems a little extreme to delete the lot for a couple of rules violations? I only ask as:

1) now, when people read back through some interesting threads (to which Beeks was participant), they don't make sense

2) It means that no-one can learn from his mistakes as to what is acceptable and what isn't (yes, I know there are rules to the site published, but it helps to see where the Mods draw the line and how they interpret them. (Please note, I'm not having a dig at mods, just - hopefully - making a constructive comment!)

3) It doesn't look good to others who DO like to have a pop at Mods (again, I must point out I'm not one of them), because it looks like 'evidence' is being covered up.

Many thanks in advance for your time!

Well, have any rules changed, or are any of them being more strictly enforced? I have no idea what Beeks could have done to warrant this, and now I am concerned for my nations. I mean really, if you want to make an example out of Beeks, than please at least explain yourselves. Otherwise, it just appears that somone has a grudge.

*spies TG lurking*

hey TG... *adopts reporter type style*

care to make comment on these points? :)

I could not possibly comment.

Reason being, I slept through the whole thing, and am only now piecing together last night's events.

I will state the obvious however, that Beeker had an impressive list of forum and game rule violations committed by numerous puppets, and had been punished by multiple warnings, deletions and a temporary forum ban. Whatever he did this time, it has to be understood that he has pretty much used up his chances.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

I could not possibly comment.

Reason being, I slept through the whole thing, and am only now piecing together last night's events.

I will state the obvious however, that Beeker had an impressive list of forum and game rule violations committed by numerous puppets, and had been punished by multiple warnings, deletions and a temporary forum ban. Whatever he did this time, it has to be understood that he has pretty much used up his chances.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

You have no argument from me that BEEKER (sorry to use caps.. I haven't figured out how to bold stuff yet!).. deserved deleting.. but as far as I could see, Beeks had been behaving himself.

If I'm wrong, I'm happy to hold my hands up and say it, but I can't see any complaints or mod alerts directed at him, let alone any public warnings.

Thanks for your comments though TG!

To do bold in BBCode, use these tags. Similarly, i for italics.

[code:1:a8220360e1][b]Text[/b] [i]Text[/i][/code:1:a8220360e1]

You will find a sort of tutorial here: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/faq.php?mode=bbcode

When I said Beeker, I was not referring to the nation, but the player behind it. The player has operated various nations and has been breaking the rules under every incarnation. The questionable record to which I refer is that of the player in general. Obviously, that is something which is taken into account when dealing with repeated rule-breaking under different names.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

To do bold in BBCode, use these tags. Similarly, i for italics.

[code:1:55bcdbd9b3][b]Text[/b] [i]Text[/i][/code:1:55bcdbd9b3]

You will find a sort of tutorial here: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/faq.php?mode=bbcode

When I said Beeker, I was not referring to the nation, but the player behind it. The player has operated various nations and has been breaking the rules under every incarnation. The questionable record to which I refer is that of the player in general. Obviously, that is something which is taken into account when dealing with repeated rule-breaking under different names.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

That's a potentially interesting minefield and possibly something in the rules that needs looking at... i.e. can you delete the 'master' nation for something done by the puppet? (obviously you can with an IP ban, but what about a deletion?)

I accept what you say and admit that the player has a somewhat 'excitable' nature that sometimes steps over the mark (causing nations to be deleted)... but I'm only referring to this one puppet... as I said, I can't see any complaints, alerts or warnings against the 'Beeks' puppet? This makes it hard for players to understand exactly where the line is, if they can't follow the Mod process.

I realise you probably can't help here, as you weren't awake at the time (do you have any witnesses to this alibi?? :wink: ) but I'd be grateful if you could raise these questions with the other Mods.

All I'd like, would be a link showing where the offence (s) were caused and a warning, so I can make sure I don't ever get that close to 'the line'.

Good point. I could see where deleting the player's nicest nation might be an extra special punishment for those who are extra special worthy of it, but not warranting an IP ban.

I recieved my e-mail...it didn't clarify anything at all...I would like specific instances where I have been breaking the rules which is more severe than any other nation on NS...My case...in the words of Reprod was deemed High-Profile...how ridiculous...I am just a normal player like anyone else...yet again I am recieving special attention from the Moderators...I am a nice guy...hell...even the nazis respect me...I dont see the problem you have with me... :?

Perhaps if you could get away from complimenting yourself for how well liked you are you could see the issue with a bit more clarity. Not trying to be mean at all, just noticed in each of these threads (they pop up from time to time as you know) you compliment yourself for how liked you are (and you are well liked, sure) and some how equate this to why the mods like to pay attention to you. Be honest, you seem smart enough to see beyond that.

You aren't the same as every other player, because most of us have not have nations deleted for rules violations. You have a history of this, and that is why you would be considered hight profile. Again, I have no iodea what happened, so I wouldn't know if you deserve it or not. Iw ould hope not, as you seem to enjpoy the game a lot and for the most part the game enjoys you. But prentending to have no idea why they would look more carefully at you does not help your case much. Setting up a Them Vs You scenario is not going to be to your benefit.

*sigh*

This is old news. Once it would have roused interest, but damnit, Beeker's nations getting deleted/banned/warned/chatised/castigated/whatever happens every other day, it seems.

He has been warned, time and time again. He has been punished time and time again, yet still he does the same sort of stuff. We all know that you don't get a clean slate when you come back from deletion... why should a repeat offender expect the same degree of tolerance that a new person gets?

I can accept that he has improved... I think that to have lasted so long under the scrutiny that he gets, he must have. To a man who usually decapitates people: chopping off hands may be an improvement in social ettiquette, but its still illegal. Not to say that these are comparable crimes, just taking a case to extremes for demonstration purposed.

And frankly... I am astonished to see so many people who claim to be his friend ask for the mods to violate confidentiality. What if the reason was along the lines that Eridanus is slandering? i.e. he really did do something bad... would we have a right to know and, frankly, would the Mods be right in telling us?
Beeker/Beeks was given the information privately when he asked for it and chose to make some of it public. That was his choice, not our right.

Hope that doesn't offend too many people.

---
Thoughts, fears, hopes, tears...
Tarrican out.

Perhaps if you could get away from complimenting yourself for how well liked you are you could see the issue with a bit more clarity. Not trying to be mean at all, just noticed in each of these threads (they pop up from time to time as you know) you compliment yourself for how liked you are (and you are well liked, sure) and some how equate this to why the mods like to pay attention to you. Be honest, you seem smart enough to see beyond that.

You aren't the same as every other player, because most of us have not have nations deleted for rules violations. You have a history of this, and that is why you would be considered hight profile. Again, I have no iodea what happened, so I wouldn't know if you deserve it or not. Iw ould hope not, as you seem to enjpoy the game a lot and for the most part the game enjoys you. But prentending to have no idea why they would look more carefully at you does not help your case much. Setting up a Them Vs You scenario is not going to be to your benefit.

In fairness, the first sentence of Beeker1's post, asks for specific instances. Normally, when ANY player breaks the rules, there is a warning from a Mod whereever the violation takes place. All Beeker1 (and myself) have politely requested, is the location of this warning so we can better understand where the problem lies.

Please note, I'm not suggesting that I think the deletion was wrong.. I'm just looking to better understand the reason for it.

*sigh*

And frankly... I am astonished to see so many people who claim to be his friend ask for the mods to violate confidentiality. What if the reason was along the lines that Eridanus is slandering? i.e. he really did do something bad... would we have a right to know and, frankly, would the Mods be right in telling us?
Beeker/Beeks was given the information privately when he asked for it and chose to make some of it public. That was his choice, not our right.

Hope that doesn't offend too many people.

---
Thoughts, fears, hopes, tears...
Tarrican out.

Not offended in the slightest!! (Even by the suggestion I'm his 'friend'! :wink: :P )

My point is, normally, the Mods reply to a compaint, I'd like to see where it is. If it was sent privately to them, you're right, I don't have any right to know (and if this is the case, I'll shut up on their say so!) If it was on a forum, which is public, then I'd be interested to see it.

Normally, there is also a warning.. in which case, I can't find it. If this had been done privately (rather than through the forums), then Beeks would have had a record of it and therefore not been as curious.

Whatever he did this time, it has to be understood that he has pretty much used up his chances.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

Can we take that to mean that he could be IP banned if he does anything wrong, next time?

He was very arrogant.

Whatever he did this time, it has to be understood that he has pretty much used up his chances.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

Can we take that to mean that he could be IP banned if he does anything wrong, next time?

Lets put it this way:

I wasnt here when it happened. I'm personally shocked he hasnt been IP banned.

Beeker was forum banned for a week. He then resumed his previous style of posting and was warned multiple times, then deleted. Immediately following, he created yet another nation (I believe it was also deleted, before he created Beeks - I might be wrong). Beeks shaped up for a little bit, but then, from what I've heard, resumed his prior posting style yet again and thus was summarily deleted.

He got off lucky. By this point, an IP ban would definately be in order. It's become extremely apparent to the Moderation and Admin that Beeker has no desire to take advantage of the leniency shown towards him.

Just because you (this is indirectly stated) want to know the reasons for deletions does not make it wrong for the Mods to not tell you. Might be "unfair" or "impolite" or whatever else you want to call it, but it remains our right to withhold that information from the general public.

To those who believe Beeker was treated differently from everyone else, as Ackbar explains, he was. Every player who's had a nation deleted and returns under a new incarnation recieves more attention than those who havent had a nation deleted. Especially one who's been forum-banned, had a few nations deleted, and still continues with his past rule violations.

I honestly fail to see how the Mods are the ones at fault here. We did not force Beeker to violate the rules, nor did we even encourage his discretions. He posted of his own volition, and acted of his own volition, and as such, it is his responsibility for his nation's deletion.

Just because you (this is indirectly stated) want to know the reasons for deletions does not make it wrong for the Mods to not tell you. Might be "unfair" or "impolite" or whatever else you want to call it, but it remains our right to withhold that information from the general public.

To those who believe Beeker was treated differently from everyone else, as Ackbar explains, he was. Every player who's had a nation deleted and returns under a new incarnation recieves more attention than those who havent had a nation deleted. Especially one who's been forum-banned, had a few nations deleted, and still continues with his past rule violations.

I honestly fail to see how the Mods are the ones at fault here. We did not force Beeker to violate the rules, nor did we even encourage his discretions. He posted of his own volition, and acted of his own volition, and as such, it is his responsibility for his nation's deletion.

I apologise if you feel I'm having a go at you or any other Mods here. I totally don't mean it. I do not 'blame' anyone for what's happened other than Beeks himself.
That said, I'm interested to see the posts that caused this deletion, as well as the warnings. I understand that you have no responsibility to show me/us, and I have no right to be shown.. I'm ONLY curious, so I can see where the lines are drawn by mods as to what is flaming and what isn't. I do NOT intend to challenge those lines, just understand them.

I have no intention of commenting on IP Bans.

That might be difficult, I have looked, though so far not particularly thoroughly, and it is not clear what, if anything, has survived.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

That might be difficult, I have looked, though so far not particularly thoroughly, and it is not clear what, if anything, has survived.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

Yeah.. that's what I found... that said, I was expecting to see a Mod warning?

p.s. I totally accept that this may have been from a private complaint, and been dealt with by TM's to Beeks, which of course wouldn't be anywhere on a forum!

*snickers*

I myself have seen at least three warning from the Mods to Beeks. This is, correct me if I'm wrong, a fraction of the warnings he's recieved. That's enough to warrant an IP ban, deletion, or nuclear holocaust, in my opinion.

But, my opinions matter very little.

*gives the mods a bonghit and a fish sammich*

*snickers*

I myself have seen at least three warning from the Mods to Beeks. This is, correct me if I'm wrong, a fraction of the warnings he's recieved. That's enough to warrant an IP ban, deletion, or nuclear holocaust, in my opinion.

But, my opinions matter very little.

*gives the mods a bonghit and a fish sammich*

No.. you opions ARE of consequence!!

Please could you post the location of these warnings (talking about ones to Beeks, NOT Beeker, Cat in the Hat etc!)

Again, I point out, it is not my intention to question the actions of Mods, just to better understand how these things happen.

No.. you opions ARE of consequence!!

Please could you post the location of these warnings (talking about ones to Beeks, NOT Beeker, Cat in the Hat etc!)

Again, I point out, it is not my intention to question the actions of Mods, just to better understand how these things happen.

Hehehe, I have little to no short-term memory, and if I racked my rain for days I wouldn't be able to come up with more. I just remember the happenings, and vaguely.

My point is that after numerous, and no one is argueing that there have been MANY MANY times the mods were forced to call him down, they finally deleted him, as they did his previous nations. You want reasons for the Mods actions? He was an ass, and while I never had a problem with him myself, he seemed to cause alot of ruckus in General.

I myself have only been called down by one Mod, which was Neut. I called this guy an idiot for starting a thread on why so-and-so was a terrible mod. Neut told me not to fuel the flames and I didnt. I get out of hand and offend people all the time I'm sure, but if the mods called me down you can be damn sure I would adjust my attitude, if only because I love playing here at NS, and wether you like it or not, this is THEIR turf, and to hang out you play by their rules. You don't have to be a kissass or a lapdog, but you DO have to respect the ToS, other players, and the word of the mods who were chosen by [violet] to run this place. That's what they're doing.

Rock and Roll.

I have no opinion on the specific issue either way, but I wanted to say that I fail to see why it makes any difference what nation a player uses to commit offenses, if they have more than one. Violations of forum and site rules are not in character occurrences, they are the behaviour of the real life person. So, if punishment is warranted, it should apply to all of their nations.

edit - wanted to say also, that warning should work the same way. A warning to ZekesPuppetA is a warning to me the player, not to some fraction of me.

I have no opinion on the specific issue either way, but I wanted to say that I fail to see why it makes any difference what nation a player uses to commit offenses, if they have more than one. Violations of forum and site rules are not in character occurrences, they are the behaviour of the real life person. So, if punishment is warranted, it should apply to all of their nations.

edit - wanted to say also, that warning should work the same way. A warning to ZekesPuppetA is a warning to me the player, not to some fraction of me.

As logical as that sounds, that would cause a lot of difficulty for those of us who share computers/IP addresses. Take Danya's (Daniella etc) situation for example: her younger brother has been warned/deleted several times, and your proposal would nuke her as well as him.

Players who share computers are already warned about UN involvement and have to rotate membership or share a nation to participate. Please don't make it virtually unplayable for them by inadvertantly punishing them for sharing a computer with a transgressor.

My point is that after numerous, and no one is argueing that there have been MANY MANY times the mods were forced to call him down, they finally deleted him, as they did his previous nations. You want reasons for the Mods actions? He was an ass, and while I never had a problem with him myself, he seemed to cause alot of ruckus in General.

I myself have only been called down by one Mod, which was Neut. I called this guy an idiot for starting a thread on why so-and-so was a terrible mod. Neut told me not to fuel the flames and I didnt. I get out of hand and offend people all the time I'm sure, but if the mods called me down you can be damn sure I would adjust my attitude, if only because I love playing here at NS, and wether you like it or not, this is THEIR turf, and to hang out you play by their rules. You don't have to be a kissass or a lapdog, but you DO have to respect the ToS, other players, and the word of the mods who were chosen by [violet] to run this place. That's what they're doing.

Rock and Roll.

Please let me re-itterate. I'm not looking for justification of his deletion. Nor am I looking to build a case for re-instatement. I am solely looking to see what happened, so I can better understand where the 'line' is and how Mods interpret what is and isn't flaming.

I admit to having seen warnings before Beeker got deleted, but not Beeks.

(I'm probably just a nosey git!)

MODEDIT - double post

Laments over the loss.

I may have not known Beeks personally or thoroughly, but enough to know that Beeks provided humor to the game, something that some people are forgetting still exists.

Fare thee well dear Beeks, if you could hear this. We still love you. Long may you live through us.

Note:
I will not argue my opinion on the matter, for it is irrelevent seeing that those who support my side already posted my view points. No point repeating.

Laments over the loss.

I may have not known Beeks personally or thoroughly, but enough to know that Beeks provided humor to the game, something that some people are forgetting still exists.

Fare thee well dear Beeks, if you could hear this. We still love you. Long may you live through us.

Note:
I will not argue my opinion on the matter, for it is irrelevent seeing that those who support my side already posted my view points. No point repeating.

Don't worry DFD, it wasn't an IP Ban.. he's already back as Beeker1!

Hence I'm not interested in arguing for re-instatement or anything!

*wipes sweat off forehead and stops biting nails*

Phew. :D

:lol: :wink: :)

Right...there is a few issues I would like to deal with here...

1) My puppets still exist as do there posts...you find me ONE example of me flaming or griefing on the forum and I will never question your judgement ever again...WHY? Becauser I have NEVER flamed or commited any violations with my puppets...so where you get this rubbish is beyond me

2) To stop myself from actually flaming I am going to ignore Eridanus's slanderous post and categorically deny that this has absolutely nothing to do with my deletion...if it did...believe me...I would be spamming up the boards right now with anger

3) I STILL have not had a sufficient explanation for the deletion of Beeks...the e-mail to me was written as follows...I would like a full explanation with links of why I was deleted or I will take it for what it is...a snap decision by a hothead who obviously had no evidence to back it up...hence the deleting of my posts

This was the e-mail that I recieved...please note that in the e-mail it quotes me as region griefing?...um...no...it also says...after numerous warnings...I havn't had one as Beeks...

Following a continued investigation and review of the behavior of the nation "Beeks", a group of the game moderators determined that said nation has violated the Nationstates rules multiple times (including regional spam, flaming, flamebaiting, and other similiar offenses) after numerous warnings, it was decided that said nation was to be deleted, which was then carried out by myself.

Due to the high profile of this case, it is pending review by [violet] in the moderator/admin forum. Should the moderator decision be overruled, or the ruling otherwise adjusted, you will be informed.

~Reploid Productions
~Nationstates Senior Game Moderator

You may not have recieved warnings for this particular nation, but you have recieved warnings on NS before.

That's a potentially interesting minefield and possibly something in the rules that needs looking at... i.e. can you delete the 'master' nation for something done by the puppet? (obviously you can with an IP ban, but what about a deletion?).
Deletions, IP bans, warnings, etc. are disciplinary actions taken against the player.
There is no "magic" cut off from one nation to the next.
Nations are inanimate bits of code on a server somewhere, trying to discipline them is like whipping the ocean because it pissed you off.
Furthermore, warnings, and past disciplinary actions stay on your NS record, permanently, as they apply to you the player, not the nation specifically.

Beeker, you did indeed recieve warnings as Beeks. Your attitude has not changed from before your forum ban, nor has your posting style. As such, I suspect an IP ban may be headed your way very shortly. If, as you claim, we were showing you any special attention, it is only the attention you yourself are responsible for earning by the outrageous defiance of this site's ToS. Any special consideration to actions taken in regards to yourself, Beeker, would be the leniency shown towards you in not imposing an IP ban.

Beeker, you did indeed recieve warnings as Beeks.

Um...sorry neut...but no...I never :D

and have you ever thought that I wont get an IP ban because I have never actually ever done anything so severe that it would warrant one...ok...so I have had a host of minor infringements over the year I have been on here...but hey...when you post as often as I do...mistakes will be made :D

You are once again wrong Beeker. Minor infringements? A forum ban does not result from "minor infringements". I might also mention that, as in the real world, those minor infringements collect. You are done here Beeker. Goodbye.