NationStates Jolt Archive

"This nation has been determined to be in breach of UN rules, which allow you to only have one nation in the UN at any given time. It has thus been ejected and barred from re-joining."

I've 4 nations: freeska, tryo, alatri and stonies. Stonies was the only one in the UN. In fact, I haven't been playing with the others for several days.


"The UN is not the right place to censure foreign powers."

I didn't knew that, I've been playing to NS only 2 months ago and started in the forum a month ago. I just assumed that as in the real UN, the assembly of members has the right to expell a nation at a 2/3 majority (even if this opportunity has never been used in real world, but several proposotions were made, I have never tought that my proposal could have been passed, it was just some propaganda for my cause). For military embargo, it is a normal competence of UN (Irak).

I don't think you can blame me for that. I've made threads in the forum to announce this proposal and ask for nations to support it:
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=98713
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2244073
No nation told me that a proposal to expell a UN member was a "crime".
I've also telegrammed to UN delegates, none answered me telling me expelling a UN member was a "crime".

You were removed from the UN for making 3 proposals in violation of the rules of the game. The "You have multiple nations" telegram is something which gets sent automatically. I was under the impression that [violet] was going to set the game to not do that, but clearly that hasn't happened yet.

Does that mean I will permanently be rejected by the UN?
If this is the case the UN is absurd in NS, the only solution to all problems between nations is war. I tried to RP it differently, diplomatically and am expelled?

It isn't even written in the FAQs that expulsion or embargo proposals are banned. How was I supposed to know? 8 regional delegates even supported the proposal which mean many of them doesn't know about that rule.

About the other violations I assume it is my attempt to crash the Reich (a nazi region), attempt that never succeed because I had talks with Nederland2, a reich nation that convinced me.
I can't remember other violations.

Does that mean I will permanently be rejected by the UN?
No, just the nation in question. You should be able to enter a new nation into the UN, and play the game paying more attention to the rules.

It isn't even written in the FAQs that expulsion or embargo proposals are banned. How was I supposed to know? 8 regional delegates even supported the proposal which mean many of them doesn't know about that rule.
It is dangerous to assume that because other nations go along with something, it is not illegal. The rules of which you speak are prominently posted in the form of a sticky at the top of the United Nations Forum. It is often said that before a player does anything, they should read the stickies. This is a good example of how it can be important.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

Does that mean I will permanently be rejected by the UN?
No, just the nation in question. You should be able to enter a new nation into the UN, and play the game paying more attention to the rules.

This is my only "worthy" nation, it has a history, an army( http://users.skynet.be/bk286933/nationstates/definitif/definitif.htm ) , a region where it belong, I had support of 18 region members and now you are telling me I have to get everything back from the beginning because I assumed the UN worked better than it does in NS? The main interest of the game is when the nation acquires background and experience through RP, I suppose you also get attached to your nation (damn, you give the opportunity to customize nation's title...), so you can understand my disappointment.

It is dangerous to assume that because other nations go along with something, it is not illegal. The rules of which you speak are prominently posted in the form of a sticky at the top of the United Nations Forum. It is often said that before a player does anything, they should read the stickies. This is a good example of how it can be important.

Well I have been reading the stickies as a matter of fact and I din't notice anything against a proposal to expell a UN member or a proposal for economic embargo (maybe I haven't read carefully enough). You can't "punish" a nation for that. My proposal was written better than many other proposals with strong arguments.

Permanent expulsion of the UN doesn't exist in RL, giving every country the opportunity to join international community someday to work for a better future is the main goal of UN. This goal will never be reached by expelling nations from the UN. A temporary expulsion, with all consequences (loose of endorsements, bad image for the country...) is more than enough to protect the rules of the UN.

If this is the case the UN is absurd in NS, the only solution to all problems between nations is war. I tried to RP it differently, diplomatically and am expelled?

In the past, people have posted in the UN forum requests for diplomatic support via polls. Trying to solve a problem diplomatically is fine. However, requesting wars via a UN proposal is not in order.

It isn't even written in the FAQs that expulsion or embargo proposals are banned. How was I supposed to know? 8 regional delegates even supported the proposal which mean many of them doesn't know about that rule.

Not Worthy of the UN's Consideration
This is rather a subjective thing and the good news is that it's only used very rarely. A classic example of a proposal which gets deleted under this rule is "We propose that the UN declare war on <nation>." While the role of the real-world UN might involve warfare and the waging thereof, it isn't for this body to fight wars. (italics mine)

I would note that this sticky is linked to on the Proposal Submission page.

"While the role of the real-world UN might involve warfare and the waging thereof, it isn't for this body to fight wars."

My proposal wasn't about war but about expulsion from the UN (which ironically happened to me...) and military embargo.
Making a proposal at the UN was the best way to get everybody know about the situation, it's a normal propaganda mean...

Permanent expulsion of the UN doesn't exist in RL, giving every country the opportunity to join international community someday to work for a better future is the main goal of UN. This goal will never be reached by expelling nations from the UN. A temporary expulsion, with all consequences (loose of endorsements, bad image for the country...) is more than enough to protect the rules of the UN.

My proposal wasn't about war but about expulsion from the UN
In which case you're asking for the UN to do something it can't do in the game. Hence, game mechanics.

Making a proposal at the UN was the best way to get everybody know about the situation, it's a normal propaganda mean...
No it isn't. It might be in the real world, but here you have to propagandise on the forums and by telegram. That's why this is a game.

About the other violations I assume it is my attempt to crash the Reich (a nazi region), attempt that never succeed because I had talks with Nederland2, a reich nation that convinced me.
I can't remember other violations.
I repeat, there were no other rule violations. You were sent telegrams on the 26th and 27th of last month warning you about posting inappropriate proposals of varying sorts. This was the third one and by application of the rules in the sticky to which TG has referred you*, you're out of the UN.

*unintentional French exercise

"While the role of the real-world UN might involve warfare and the waging thereof, it isn't for this body to fight wars."

My proposal wasn't about war but about expulsion from the UN (which ironically happened to me...) and military embargo.
Making a proposal at the UN was the best way to get everybody know about the situation, it's a normal propaganda mean...

Permanent expulsion of the UN doesn't exist in RL, giving every country the opportunity to join international community someday to work for a better future is the main goal of UN. This goal will never be reached by expelling nations from the UN. A temporary expulsion, with all consequences (loose of endorsements, bad image for the country...) is more than enough to protect the rules of the UN.

The United Nations in NationStates is not the real-life United Nations. We are not bound by the charter of the real-life United Nations or by any practical consideration of the operations of the real-life United Nations.

In NationStates, ejection from the United Nations occurs only as a result of violations of NationStates rules. No nation may be forcibly ejected from the United Nations as the result of actions of other nations.

UN resolutions, if they pass, adjust the numerical statistics of all UN member nations. Thus, UN resolutions should be thought of as pieces of legislation that affect day-to-day life within UN member nations, or that affect day-to-day operations between all UN member nations simultaneously. UN resolutions in NationStates are not to be used as executive resolutions. That is, you cannot have the UN declare war, impose embargoes, or send aid to any specific named nation.

Making a resolution to "to send humanitarian aid to any UN member nation whenever there is an emergency" is fine. Making a resolution "to send humanitarian aid to Katganistan, which just suffered a wide-scale natural catastrophe" is against NationStates rules.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

okay cogitation, I understand better your objections now (if the UN in the NS is a big legislative chamber...). I just had an idea, there was some story behind and I didn't knew of the rules precisely (maybe you could do something about that in the FAQs).

Anyway, the posts on the forum were all related to that issue, I sent telegrams, posted on the forum, send the UN proposal all in the same goal, one violation. Nano Soft (my opponent) or his allies never told me about the "illegality" of my campaign wheter I specified I had an UN"expulsion proposal".
Can you focus on one violation to expell me from the UN?

In effeti Enodia, l''inglese non è la mia prima lingua.

Sorry for arguing for so long but I'm really attached to my Stonieland...
http://www.mtv.com/shared/media/news/images/r/Roots/sq-questlove-interview-mtv.jpg

bump

Stonies, from what I've seen, the reasons have been explained quite well to you.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling
PGP: 0x0604DF3E

Translation: your appeal has been denied.

Ballotonia

Ballotonia, good point. I have a tendancy to talk in odd circles around my point.

Your appeal has been denied.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling