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I'm not Not a mod...
but why did you post here instead of the getting help page
(or the moderation forum) and you can make a puppet nation to put in the UN
Tactical Grace
04-11-2003, 03:31
Yes, it showed up as a multi. But you can still enter another nation into the UN.
Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator
Tactical Grace
04-11-2003, 03:54
You can enter a puppet into the UN, move it to your region, and use your original nation to tell the residents that this is your new UN nation. I am sure that would be OK. Some people switch UN nations from time to time, it is an inconvenience, but not a fatal one.
Tactical Grace
04-11-2003, 04:28
It would mean making an exception to the rules, and you can see how we get ripped apart by the hyenas when any inconsistency crops up. So I am not sure that is possible.
But speaking from personal experience, I am in the process of changing UN nation and have simply appointed a deputy to the post of Delegate. That way, anything that needs to be taken care of - ejections, approving Proposals, etc, gets handled by someone my region and I trust. Two or three days really is a short time to wait.
Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator
---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---
Tactical Grace
04-11-2003, 05:04
Someone is looking into it. Please be patient, and don't expect too much.
Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator
3 am Eternal
04-11-2003, 17:04
I had my nation deleted for being a multi after my friend logged onto my home network to check on his UN member nation. The joke was we were fighting each other to become delegate of a region and then both got deleted as multis. Anyway the relevant Mod took another look and I had my nation restored.
This system is not inflexible, don't believe the hype.
Hmmmm. I've always taken care to have only one UN Member nation at any given time. Now, there's three computers in the house I live in, all on the same cable Internet connection - same IP address? The chances that my landlady and her son (the owners of the other two computers) might discover Nation States and become interested in playing the game is slim, but I suppose it does constitute a risk that some day multiple UN Member nations get detected at my IP address.
To prevent this, I'm not promoting the Nation States game around my household.
SalusaSecondus
04-11-2003, 19:44
Pops, As I am sure that you realize, we do not discriminate upon religion (or on anything else for that matter) while enforcing the rules. And, however sincerely you may mean it, we unfortunately cannot take your statements of faith and religion as guarantees of your honesty in the game. This has nothing to do with your or any other specific person, but rather because people will lie to us and exploit this. My understanding is that the Multi scan revealed a decent amount of UN activity from two different nations on the same computer.
This is my recommendation for you:
Though it is still possible that this ruling will be overturned, it is not likely (simply because they so rarely are). For that matter, even if it were overturned you would still need to reapply to the UN since you've been ejected from it. Thus, the fastest way for you to re-enter the UN is to create a puppet, move it to your region, and inform everyone there that it is your and that they should endorse it as if it were you (as it is). This will return you to the UN the fastest, is guarenteed to work (as opposed to hoping for a change of ruling), and is not uncommonly done.
http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling
PGP: 0x0604DF3E
SalusaSecondus
05-11-2003, 04:26
I've examined some of the evidence myself (as we've communicated before). The evidence does not say that you were cheating, simply enough to say that you might have been. This is not a cut and dried case. We don't want to see you leave the game (with the sole exception of griefers we don't like to see anyone leave the game), and invite you to create a new UN nation and continue playing. There is nothing dishonerable in this at all.
Just by the by, Pops - not all the moderators are non-Christian.
Just by the by, Pops - not all the moderators are non-Christian.I know that and I am sorry if my post reads that way, it is not intended to.
Please, let it be known, that I meant NO offense to the Moderators. I have stated many times that I am of the opinion that they are a great help to the game.
I, in no way, am saying that any one (nor the entire ensemble) of Moderators discriminate on any basis.
When I said that religion is frowned on in this game, I was referring to the majority of views posted being anti-faith. Start a thread that has any religious reference in the name and see how long it takes to get attacked for your beliefs. I have yet to make it to the second page of post before the atheist, satanist, agnostic, or some other form of anti-faith person attacks the believers views. I hope this clears things up further.
That's a very good point, actually Pops. Not much your or I or the average believer-in-the-street can do about it, but a sad state of affairs.
If you're going, Pops, it'll be a shame to see the back of you.
Yes, it showed up as a multi. But you can still enter another nation into the UN.
Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator
Wouldn't that put me back to square one in trying to build up my region and all the other work I have already done through the game?
You have been in the game for just a month now. You will lose nothing you have eanred thus far. Siompy accept this, and move forward. If a mod steps in great. If they don't, simply move forward and stay int he game. That is my advice.
SalusaSecondus
05-11-2003, 07:41
Popsland, I sincerely doubt that anyone will say that you cheated your way in. People accessing nations from the same computer is not an uncommon mistake, and will be understood by most players. From the sound of it, an honest mistake was made, and that is nothing to be ashamed of, and no one will hold it against you.
SalusaSecondus
05-11-2003, 07:53
We cannot delete nations upon request, nor return names to the available pool sorry.
P.S. You have never been declared a vile cheater.
SalusaSecondus
05-11-2003, 08:17
We can make not statement eitherway about your honesty, same with all honest players.
If you want your nation deleted, simply do not log into it for 28 days. Unfortunately, there is no way for you to return it to the name pool. However, as you are the founder of a region, so as to keep your region safe perhaps you could give your nation to a friend so that they might safe guard the region? That way the name can still be used by someone, and your region is safe.
It is your choice to be overly-dramatic about the situation. You must see the big picture. You were not accused of cheating, you were accused of being in an a questionable situation. If you had actually been accused of cheating you would not have the option of having a new UN nation.
I understand how you feel, I do. You are upset. But, if you can look at the greater good-- see that there are 100's of players in this game, if not thousands, and they have certain procedures to qualify if someone is in a questiobale situation-- if you can look that the mods are trying to preserve fairness for all players, and they have taken specail steps to allow you to play this game... if you can see this then you will play the game again I hope. Especially coming at the game as a stepping board for your relgious beliefs, I think it would be wrong for you to simply turn away when hitting a small block.. a block which has already been mostly cleared for you.
Either way, good luck.
Tisonica
06-11-2003, 07:34
Popsland, your lack of showing proper respect to the moderators is certainly not going to help you case at all if that is what you are thinking that you are accomplishing. And I doubt that threatening to not telling people to play the game is either.
I think you do not understand what the mods have said over and over, if they allow you to re-enter the UN then they will be expected to grant appeals for people in the future, and the sytem could be easily abused that way. Even if your friend made the nation with a different ISP and logged on under a different ISP it still does not gaurantee that you did not violate the rules, a griefer could easily take advantage of that by logging in to multies made by friends of thiers to use them to take over regions.
Now you may say, why do they not just check these things all the time to make sure that the person isn't a griefer. Why? Because it takes far too much effort and time from the mods than it does good. And cases like this are reported all the time, in the end the fault lies upon you, you must have been quite aware that you weren't supposed to have another UN nation log in on your computer, yet you let it happen, so you did violate the rules.
It is your choice to be overly-dramatic about the situation. You must see the big picture. You were not accused of cheating, you were accused of being in an a questionable situation. If you had actually been accused of cheating you would not have the option of having a new UN nation.
I understand how you feel, I do. You are upset. But, if you can look at the greater good-- see that there are 100's of players in this game, if not thousands, and they have certain procedures to qualify if someone is in a questiobale situation-- if you can look that the mods are trying to preserve fairness for all players, and they have taken specail steps to allow you to play this game... if you can see this then you will play the game again I hope. Especially coming at the game as a stepping board for your relgious beliefs, I think it would be wrong for you to simply turn away when hitting a small block.. a block which has already been mostly cleared for you.
Either way, good luck.
One word in the English language is the issue: Integrity.
I did not come to this game as a stepping stone for my belief. I only brought my belief with me, like I do where ever I go. Since you make that connection though, I have a question for you.
Would you want a minister to take over your congregation, who had been accused of violating the rules of your faith by the leader of your church?
If you can answer that one with a yes then you don't believe in integrity, and thus, don't understand the problem.
I would care far more about the truth then an acusation, as should you. And since the mods have stepped over backwards to allow you in to the UN with another nation I fear this is an issue of ego (no offence) more then anything else. The mods have gone on a limb for you, players who don';t klnow you have asked you to stay in, and you still sit and complain about the game having no integrity now. Flexibility is impoirtant, as is seeing the issue outside of your own eyes.
Whichever, I guess if you continue to post you are still in the game. Good luck.
Tactical Grace
06-11-2003, 15:18
Let me clear this up.
You have not been "accused" of anything. Your character is not in question. You have simply been ejected from the UN on a technicality resulting from the need to apply UN rules consistently. That is all. Think of it as an annoying bureaucratic thing. It is not necessarily your fault, it is just the way the system works.
You are free to continue within the UN using another nation. This fact in no way sticks a "guilty" label on you.
Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator
3 am Eternal
06-11-2003, 15:36
...Even if your friend made the nation with a different ISP and logged on under a different ISP it still does not gaurantee that you did not violate the rules, a griefer could easily take advantage of that by logging in to multies made by friends of thiers to use them to take over regions.
If the ISPs were different then the IP addresses would be different. If they also used two different e-mail addresses then there would be no way I can fathom of the Mods being able to make a technical connection between the two nations.
Collaboration
06-11-2003, 19:38
Let me clear this up.
You have not been "accused" of anything. Your character is not in question. You have simply been ejected from the UN on a technicality resulting from the need to apply UN rules consistently. That is all. Think of it as an annoying bureaucratic thing. It is not necessarily your fault, it is just the way the system works.
You are free to continue within the UN using another nation. This fact in no way sticks a "guilty" label on you.
Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator
So then his original nation keeps its stats? That would be fair.
Tisonica
06-11-2003, 22:10
[quote=Tisonica]Popsland, your lack of showing proper respect to the moderators is certainly not going to help you case at all if that is what you are thinking that you are accomplishing. And I doubt that threatening to not telling people to play the game is either.
I think you do not understand what the mods have said over and over, if they allow you to re-enter the UN then they will be expected to grant appeals for people in the future, and the sytem could be easily abused that way. Even if your friend made the nation with a different ISP and logged on under a different ISP it still does not gaurantee that you did not violate the rules, a griefer could easily take advantage of that by logging in to multies made by friends of thiers to use them to take over regions.
Now you may say, why do they not just check these things all the time to make sure that the person isn't a griefer. Why? Because it takes far too much effort and time from the mods than it does good. And cases like this are reported all the time, in the end the fault lies upon you, you must have been quite aware that you weren't supposed to have another UN nation log in on your computer, yet you let it happen, so you did violate the rules.
If you have read the post here you surely must have seen the numerous times I mentioned how much respect I have for the Moderators of this game.
Telling people you respect them is not the same as showing respect for them. Demanding things from the moderators and putting words in thier mouths is far from showing respect.
If you think that it was a threat, of some kind, when I said I was not going to tell my friends about this game you are very much misinformed. I do not threaten anyone in any way.
It was a threat, you threatened them with not telling anyone about the game unless they restored your UN status. Anyone who read your posts can see it was quite obviously a threat.
If you have read the rules of this game you would have seen that there is one in place that says these type of matters are handled on a case by case basis. Thus, it is useless to try to say to the Moderators," You did it for them so you have to do it for me".
It is also useless to demand your nation's UN status be restored even though the moderators already said it will not be. Yet you continue to do so. And if you had previously frequented this forum you would see that people often do use past examples to complain about "unfair" rulings against them. And since were quoting things I would also add this,
I have more than one nation. Can they all join the UN?
No. You may only have one nation in the UN at any given time. To enforce this, UN member nations must supply an e-mail address.
If you had bothered to read the rules you would have also discovered there are four means used to make these determinations. ISP's are just one. I have repeatedly asked for someone to look into this matter using just that one. I feel that it shows simultaineous activity by both nations involved. Unless you are something other than human that is not possible to accomplish.
I have read the rules, it seems you are the one that hasn't;
Q: My friends operate those other UN member nations. We all share the same computer.
A: I'm sorry if that's the case. There is no way for the game to tell how many people are on the other end of a computer. For this reason, breaches of UN rules involving only two members are usually punished with expulsion, not deletion.
However, please note this important point: we cannot take your word on how many people are really behind your computer. This is not because you are untrustworthy, it's simply that otherwise there is no way to enforce the UN rules.
Q: But that's not fair!
A: True, and again, I'm sorry if you and your friends have been punished unjustly. However, this is the closest we can come to fair. If we accepted people's explanations that they were using a public computer with their friends, we would have to let people create as many UN nations as they like. This would destroy the whole point of the UN.
The line has to be drawn somewhere, and thus, fair or not, the rule must stand.
Which means even though the two nations may have had activity from seperate computers on many or most of the occasions they logged in on, the mods cannot tell if it was you or him that logged on from your computer on those times that they say his nation was logged into from your computer. And if they were to jsut assume taht it was you, because you said so, then this would create a loophole for cheaters who happen to have thier friends (UN members) passwords to log in to thier friends countries and do things thier friends are not active enough to do (vote on proposals, endorse people).
If you would read all the post and check the rules that may apply, it would be appreciated.
Please do not make assumptions without any evidence, it does not say much about your character, espescially if you are guilty of the exact assumptions you made.
Tisonica
06-11-2003, 22:11
Nothingg
07-11-2003, 07:03
How many more answers do you want? this thread is 3 pages. You weren't trying to cheat, but you broke a rule that you apparently were unaware of. While this may seem unfair, the rules have to be pretty strict due to the many cheaters that are out there (Note: I'm not calling you one). The mods have several ways to check for UN multis, and they will use them all before taking the step of booting someone. Since it was your first offense, and it appears that it was inadvertant, you are allowed to put a new nation in the UN. Please take this advice and try to move on. By dragging this thread out, all you are doing is stamping yourself with the big scarlet "C" you seem so afraid others will hang on you.
The Most Glorious Hack
07-11-2003, 07:22
I guess I must have fallen into the "ignore him and he will go away realm". Oh well I guess I wll just give up on ever getting a straight answer. Good bye.
Actually, I wager it was more along the lines of "Nothing we say is going to make a difference. We've tried, and failed, so no sense in continuing."
Of course, in my particular case it was "I'm asleep," but, you know...
I guess I must have fallen into the "ignore him and he will go away realm". Oh well I guess I wll just give up on ever getting a straight answer. Good bye.
Actually, I wager it was more along the lines of "Nothing we say is going to make a difference. We've tried, and failed, so no sense in continuing."
Of course, in my particular case it was "I'm asleep," but, you know...
At this point I fear we are feeding a troll, isn't there a pic somewhere about that?
The Most Glorious Hack
07-11-2003, 14:05
This is all I got:
http://www.vethnos.com/keybad.jpg
SalusaSecondus
08-11-2003, 02:14
Popsland will not be reinstated.