NationStates Jolt Archive

I've had it up to here. *motions over head*.

The moderators of NationStates have done the best job they can do. In light of The Pacific situation, they made a judgement call. The fact of whether we agree with it or not is irrelevent. It was simply made on a quick timetable, with absolutely no communication with [violet].

The same goes in ANY chain of command. When the boss isn't around, the other people in positions of power have to make decisions. Sometimes, these decisions must be made on the fly. If later, these decisions are found to be wrong, or ill-conceived, then they are changed. But the fact remains, someone has to say something, or anarchy takes over.

Guys ( and Neut in particular), you did what you thought was right. The glitch wasn't planned. It wasn't a normal occurrence. It was a mistake. One that shouldn't be repeated, because it was never meant to happen in the first place!

If the positions were reversed, and Franco had tried to take advantadge of this glitch, I know for a friggin fact everyone would be screaming for the mods to stop him in his tracks. I personally dislike the apparent policy of apathy in The Pacific, but that is another matter entirely.

So, to sum up this rant, step back, and take a look around. Put yourself in the moderators shoes, and then try to walk. You may just find yourself with concrete boots.

I'll take a second now to say what I've rarely seen anyone say: Thank you. You guys do a great job under less than desirable circumstances.

You may now return to your regular NationStates day, already in progress.

Brian
The voice behind The Armed Republic of Fyreheart

*claps*

my sentiments exactly

THANK YOU MODS AND ADMINS

For the most part, I agree that the MODS did do a good job. But this debacle in the Pacific has cast a serious shadow over them.

If a mod makes a statement, it should be listened to by the players and respected by the other mods. I assume that’s one of the criteria for becoming a mod. The other mods have to respect your opinions on the rules.

How can the players take anything Neut says now with a grain of defiance? Is he wrong? Will the Admin back him up? Can I trust that if I listen to him and no one else does that I won’t just be left out?

It’s not like the masses suddenly turned on him for no reason. There were serious blunders all around.

1) Neut should not have decided to go against the small consent to not interfere.
2) He should not have threatened to boott people from the Pacific for following Corinthe.
3) Neut shouldn’t have promised to restore the situation if he could not follow through.
4) [Violet] didn’t respect him enough to follow through with what he said even if it was not perfect.
5) [Violet] didn’t foresee the complete break down in trust between the MODS and the Players from the decision to not enforce a Mods rulings.

The entire Admin and Mod stay actively screwed and are screwing this pooch, not just Newt. He’s just taking the brunt because he was first at bat. But it should be known - Newt hurt himself, not us.

I live by very few strict rules… but one of them is: I do not promise what I can’t deliver. Promising what you can’t deliver directly hurts your reputation. It’s the first thing they teach at Officer Training School. And why is that lesson number one? If your men can’t trust you, you’re dead. No one can harm your reputation but yourself.

Neut started it by promising what he could not deliver, and [Violet] put the last nail in the coffin by over ruling him and showing the players that she didn’t trust or agree with his opinions or tactics. We didn’t make this happen, the Mods and the Admin did.

I liked the Mods and they helped me with spammers and region crashers in the past. Now I just don’t know if I can trust what they say in a pinch. The, “what if [violet] over rules them later? Should I ignore the Mods now and see what [Violet] says?,” becomes a serious problem.

-Drakma-

p.s. but otherwise, they're a fine lot.
:edit... stupid grammer:

We can hope... but it's like a fart in the wind. [Violet] is not going to make it ever worse now by reversing the admin decission. It's just not going to happen.

There will be no reset.. no adjustment.. no nothing except a ton of "XYZ ceased to exist..." in 28 days.

It's done.


-Drakma-

I am not one of those who are foaming at the mouth, eager to give Neut rabies. He made his call. [violet] made hers.

What disturbs me is the lacking element of accountability. I am aware that discussions are currently being held; that's why I've taken to keeping my voice down. I'm just waiting for the verdict....

Accountability for what, exactly?

Edit

It is not Neutered Sputniks' nor any other moderators job to interfere. Invading and conquering regions is part of the game, if moderators could interfere in the pacific, whats to say they wont start doing that in more and more regions?

Point is, it's not moderators jobs to interfere with game play.

Accountability for what, exactly?

For screwing the poodle (or was it killing the poodle? You used some sort of poodle-esque phrase to describe what you did here).

From what I gathered, you went a previously determined consensus when the opposing parties left (again, what I gathered) and told us all to am-scray. Despite what you said, I still feel it's not hard to undo what was done... just eject whichever nations had more support than Franco, as you threatened, and FS would have been on top yet again. Of course, I'm not a MOD... perhaps working with this game on that level adds degrees of difficulties, but you'll forgive me if I'm not familiar with them.

You gave us promises, ones that I'm rather certain you intended to keep. One thing you didn't think to do (and thus the source of all this fury) is tell us that your decision could be overturned. You were The Law; to find out that it is not so really disturbed and upset the lot of us. I don't hold you accountable for [violet]'s decision; she is not you, nor you her, and it would be wrong to think otherwise. However, you are responsible for Corinthe's failure to defeat FS... yes, I am aware of the "What If" factor of it... that's why I urged you to let it play out and, if you decided againt Corinthe, rectify it later. Now, as you can plainly see, only one party is satisfied.

I don't want to draw this out... after all, this thread is in SUPPORT of the mods, and I by no means think you completely guilty for this. Nor do I think you completely innocent. Right now, I'm awaiting the results of whatever discussion is currently being held... where will that be posted, by the way?

Neut, if you'd like, we can continue this via Telegram. I don't want to make this thread into another "let's liquify Neut."

[off topic:

is it greifing if you ban 1/4 of a region?]

[violet] did not show she didn't trust Neut. She overruled him because she felt it was right. Just as Neut felt it was right to do as he did.

Stop pissing and moaning and get on with life. It's over.

Some players have expressed concern about Moderator credibility. I answer with this:

When a mod says something, you assume that Admin supports it until and unless Admin says otherwise. Many times, some players have requested, or even demanded, that [violet] speak up about something, sometimes when they didn't like the response they were getting from the moderators. Each time, the response was the same: you assume that Admin supports it until and unless Admin says otherwise. This has always been the case. This has not changed.

Most of the time, [violet] has remained silent because [violet] felt that what the mods said was correct and did not require overruling. This is a rare example where [violet] decided to overrule a mod. This is an example of where the "until and unless" part came in.

...

When a mod says something, you assume that Admin supports it until and unless Admin says otherwise.

...

This has never changed. I doubt that it ever will.

"Think about it for a moment."

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Forum Moderator

off topic: is it greifing if you ban 1/4 of a region?
There is no fixed percentage. Griefing is a matter to some extent open to interpretation. If the region is passworded and the password not given to all natives, or if a relatively large proportion of natives are kicked out and kept on the ban list, that may be considered to be griefing and not legitimate region crashing, at the discretion of the Game Moderators.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

[violet] did not show she didn't trust Neut. She overruled him because she felt it was right. Just as Neut felt it was right to do as he did.

Stop pissing and moaning and get on with life. It's over.

I don't even think you were there at the time it happened, so what makes you think you know anything about the situation? Really, your flaming is needless and it only hurts your argument, I'm sure if your region was griefed you would piss and moan about it more than anybody here is.

[violet] did not show she didn't trust Neut. She overruled him because she felt it was right. Just as Neut felt it was right to do as he did.

Stop pissing and moaning and get on with life. It's over.

I don't even think you were there at the time it happened, so what makes you think you know anything about the situation? Really, your flaming is needless and it only hurts your argument, I'm sure if your region was griefed you would piss and moan about it more than anybody here is.

I was there at the time. I was in The Pacific the moment I heard what was happening, endorsing Corinthe.

I'm sorry, was I flaming? I don't think so.

If my region was griefed, and it was determined to be legal, I may question itm, but eventually I'd shut up and start planning on how to ake it back. I guess people in The Pacific don't know how to do that, because all I've seen happen over Francos is just that - pissing and moaning.

Wow what a good idea Fyreheart. It would never have occurred to any of us that we should be making plans to take back the Pacific.

You're so smart they should probably make you a moderator.

An appeal to reason:

Suppose you have spent months playing the game in your little corner, becoming the proud Delegate of a moderately-sized region. Everything is rolling along nicely.

Then you log in to discover that you are no longer the Delegate. You visit the Technical Forum, and discover that hundreds of Delegates are in the same position because of a bug.

Later, you notice a large number of UN nations enter your region and swap endorsements. You watch with alarm, but can do nothing. When you log in the next day, you and the nations endorsing you are in the Rejected Realms.

Naturally, you complain to the Moderators. But no, they cannot help you because the situation in The Pacific, its successful take-over, set a highly visible precedent, and they cannot be seen to be selective or inconsistent in their actions. You are free to attempt to recapture your region, but the invasion was legal, and technically not a griefing. You were in the right, it was not your fault, but tough luck.

Consider this.

The fact is, a lot of people have focused on this issue so hard to the exclusion of all else, they have forgotten about the rest of the game, and virtually all the other players, of whom they know nothing. We, on the other hand, are who we are because we see the big picture, and the wider implications of our actions. In this game, as in real life, this appears to be a rare quality. But I respectfully ask you to pause and think about it from this new perspective.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

Wow what a good idea Fyreheart. It would never have occurred to any of us that we should be making plans to take back the Pacific.

You're so smart they should probably make you a moderator.

I was not trying to be a smart ass. But the fact remains I have seen no organized attempts to take the Pacific besides the multi-fest that was squashed.

And yeah. I'd like to be a mod, but they hate me. Oh, the humanity!

I agree mostly with what you have said, Fyreheart . All this talk about accountability and lack of respect is utter nonsense. In all of the many actions Neut (and other mods) have carried out, this is the first time I've seen a decision overruled by admin. It doesn't constitute a breakdown of trust; simply the result of a completely unprecedented situation that, I think everyone will agree, had some far reaching consequences. Likewise, I believe that all actions taken were done with the best intentions in mind.

Nonetheless, I maintain that the Moderator actions last night were somewhat, if not unfair, then clumsy. Despite being one of those who joined the Pacific in an attempt to oust Francos, I would have to concur with TG that the action is largely unfair, and does set a dangerous precedent. His lack of delegate status was ultimately an error, and exploiting it to gain the delegacy, whatever moral imperative there may be, was dubious. However, given both the original and subsequent rulings effecting a policy of non-interference and legality of said actions, I cannot see what Neut hoped to acheive with ejecting Corinthe.

Corinthe had publicly stated that her only intention, did she gain the delegacy, was to boot Francos and associated allies, who number fewer than 5. I'm sure it's not too much of a leap of trust for the mods to have requested that Corinthe, if she did gain the delegacy, did not immediately boot these nations but allow them to stay until the next UN update. This would have given the mods and admin half a day to consider the action; were it ruled legal, Corinthe could have ejected the nations; were it ruled otherwise, she herself could have been ejected, or even asked to leave. The removal of herself and supporters from the region half way through the night served no purpose, especially given in the end, a decision was reached before the UN update.

It constituted mod interference in a matter which they had priorly declared legal, and which they declared legal once again afterwards, and helped very little save from the respect of FS.

A regrettable action, but not a malevolent one, I think

thank you mods.


I feel the need to say this to all mods. I would like to thank you for all of your hard work. i have broken rules in the past. However, you mods do your work for free, and are willing to make discisions(sp?) on the important stuff. the nesecity(sp?) of mods like Neut is immense, and admin needs to back him up. he did his thinking on the go. it may not have been the correct choice, but he needs to be able to do what he deems appropriate with little time. the fiasco in the pacific probably seemed like the correct choice at the time to Neut, and even if Francos Spain is a horrible tyrant, he earned his right to delegate, and (with all due respect) if people don't like him they can stuff it and move. the point is that Neut did his thinking on the go. I myself, hate Neut, but he deserves some respect, (which he just got from me) for his actions. Neut is the kind of mod who earned his title and deserves it. if people want to rank on the mods, they can go to a different game, because the mods here don't deserve it. I hope that admin will write an official disclaimer and even commend Neut for his actions. so, to the hardworking mods, and specifically Neut, THANK YOU!

a copy of my post in my thread

Again I state:

I agree that the Pacific Situation was poorly handled, in the eyes of players if nothing else. But that said, they did the best they could in the circumnstances. Neut was thinking about the rest of the game, rather than just the Pacific, and I think a lot of people have forgotten about that. The Pacific is not the be-all end-all of the world of NationStates. Hell, I'd say let Franco keep his little playground. I'm certain that eventually he'll get bored with it if there's noone around to make life exciting for him.

Life's not fair. It's certainly not unbiased. I feel the moderators try and be both, but of course, so very few people see it that way. This is a service to the players that does not have to happen - They're not accepting money from you people, they could behave however the damn hell they want.

Accountability, well, The Mods always have [violet] over them. You know all those times where people were hoping [violet] would come and state their opinion on a subject? Well guess what? [violet] did. And you're still complaining. Hell, [violet] acted in your interests, and you still complain.

There was an error. It happens. Deal.

I think this is all revisionism at it's best. Now that it's been a full day, the mods have gotten their spin in place, and have, what they think, is a good arguement.

Debate taught me, when you're caught in an error, blow the situation up to the largest possible effect and you will find your out. And the mods found it... "Think of all the poor starving delegates. Neut didn't act on the pacific because the pacific was a problem, he did it for all mankind.!" Come on guys... sarcasm aside... that explaination is really lame. I find it funny that no one mentioned this in the first 6 hours of arguments... it's only now there there is open hostility towards the mods and their power to rule that this comes out.

How many other regions had a ton of UN nations flood their borders to take the delegate seat? 1? 2? 10? More like 1, right?

And as for everyone assuming the Mods have the backing of the Admin... I'll wait for the admin, thank you very much.

Remember, we didn't hurt the mods ability to control the game, the mods hurt their ability to control the game and it's players.


I hate revisionists...

-Drakma-

Perhaps you didnt really read my original post in this thread on why I did what I did...if you had, you'd realize that the current stance is the exact same stance I posted at 2am this morning.

Drakma,

It's not the present the Mods are worried about. It's the possibility of stuff happening in the future that worries the Moderators. Franco's a B******, I think most people agree on this, but Neut made the (quite valid) decision that allowing people to take advantage of game glitches could have serious repercussions throughout the game, and chose to intervene. Sure, noone else took advantage of the glitch now, but someone in the future may take advantage of such a glitch, and some evil dictator with aspirations of world domination may take over some region without any possibility of recourse. Do you really want that to happen?

Of course, [violet] chose to see it as a fortunate occurence, and as a result chose to reverse the decision. [violet] felt that sudden changes in conditions happen in real life and people take advantage of them, and as such they should happen in NationStates. As such, [violet] used her executive powers to intervene in this matter, unfortunately, perhaps, a little too late to help people.

Where is the revisionism? Unless you are entirely of the opinion that all the Game Mods are evil, sadistic people who have no morals and just love to attack poor, noble region take-over attempts, this is exactly what they have been spouting all along. Noone's revised anything, hell, if anyone's trying to revise anything, it's you Drakma.

thank you mods.


I feel the need to say this to all mods. I would like to thank you for all of your hard work. i have broken rules in the past. However, you mods do your work for free, and are willing to make discisions(sp?) on the important stuff. the nesecity(sp?) of mods like Neut is immense, and admin needs to back him up. he did his thinking on the go. it may not have been the correct choice, but he needs to be able to do what he deems appropriate with little time. the fiasco in the pacific probably seemed like the correct choice at the time to Neut, and even if Francos Spain is a horrible tyrant, he earned his right to delegate, and (with all due respect) if people don't like him they can stuff it and move. the point is that Neut did his thinking on the go. I myself, hate Neut, but he deserves some respect, (which he just got from me) for his actions. Neut is the kind of mod who earned his title and deserves it. if people want to rank on the mods, they can go to a different game, because the mods here don't deserve it. I hope that admin will write an official disclaimer and even commend Neut for his actions. so, to the hardworking mods, and specifically Neut, THANK YOU!

a copy of my post in my thread*raises a beer* Amen to that, brotha!

Well, 'cept for all that hating Neut stuff. I loves him, he deletes all those UN Multies that region crashers use to piss us off. :)

:shock:

I may not support Moderators, per se, but I do trust Neut. even if I disagree with him a lot of the time. He judges things as a Moderator only and not based on any kinds of views at all. I guess it's a little melodramatic to say I trust him on something that boils down to just being a game, ultimately, even though it does become more serious a lot of the time... But, anyway, I trust his judgements and motives.

Don't worry Fyreheart, the mods know we appreciate them. You're wasting your time trying to convince those whining here that failing to steal a region through bug exploitation is not a conspiracy by the mods.

They didn't deserve to win, but they'll wail and cry about the fact they weren't allowed to cheat to gain power in a region. It's as simple as that.

The fact is, a lot of people have focused on this issue so hard to the exclusion of all else, they have forgotten about the rest of the game, and virtually all the other players, of whom they know nothing.
Exactly.

As a side note, this whole pro-mod/anti-mod thing kind of annoys me. No one should be flat-out pro- or anti-mod. If a mod makes a good decision, even if you don't like them, you should support the good decision. It makes things better for everyone.

And if a mod makes a bad decision, even if you are suck-up kiss-ass mod-wannabe, it is in your best interest, for the sake of the game to call the mod on it.

In turn, mods should also realize that not all people who disagree with them are "anti-mod" (although clearly such Froot Loops do exist).

I know this flies in the face of human nature and that it's much easier to decide something is "good" or "bad" and then never think about it again, but it's something for some of you with functional higher brains to think about.

This isn't in reference to any particular participant in this thread, by the way, it's just an issue that the title of the thread brought to mind.

Once I've taken over a region, can I eject everyone else?
No. Region crashing by itself is a legitimate tactic to seize power, but ejecting large numbers of nations is griefing. It can be a fine line between region crashing and griefing. Players who enjoy launching invasions should take care to stay on the right side.

So now that Francos has mass ejected all these nations...what is the number/count where this law/rule is taken into account? I would seriously like to know.

I understand if you step back and admit directly that a mod caused the invading force to lose (which the invading force was legal and is allowed by NS law/rules) Can I invade other people's regions?
Yes. The practice of "region crashing," where a group of nations all move to a region with the aim of seizing the UN Delegate position, is part of the game. Certain groups within NationStates are particularly adroit at this, and can attack very quickly.
That to do this causes further problems down the road. Other times when there are glitches, they will use this time as support or argument to justify actions.

However....
Many are upset right now and have lost the faith to believe what the mods say to be true because of what has happened. And I seriously think you should all discuss how this can be rectified, even if done in private, you may already have done this, I don't know. It's not my place to condemn anyone and know everything that goes on behind closed doors, but I just hope you understand that people are upset, and it is justified.

When Francos is attacked once again (yes, you can count on it) I hope that when I see him in the forum board crying like I did this last time, that the actions will be considered in honoring his pleas that someone save his sorry butt. He deserves to stay or be knocked down just as much as anyone else in the game, he is no different and shouldn't be treated as such just because he generates interest. Others generate interest as well. The fact that so many came to the aid of the Pacific nations (true citizens) shows something. I think it is important to note, because they were not staying in their own little areas, they were venturing forth and getting even more out of the game than ever before.

I personally was bored with the game until I became more involved with our off-site forum and due to that ended up with more responsibilities which added to my interest in the game. At first I was unsure of becoming involved in this "invasion", however looking back now, I am glad that I did. I also almost made the mistake of "multi" and resigned my main nation from the UN just in the nick of time. Due to this, I was never able to support Chorinthe in the way she needed. Being only two endorsements behind, I would have been one of them, but it would not have been by the rules. I didn't go there. I wish I could have, but I did not. TigersPaw9 is the one that should have had UN status at that time. So instead I helped in other ways, and due to this have met many people who are very interesting. We were not helping strangers, we were connecting together. There were many discussions in telegram, even passed jokes.....I hope you understand this.

We are united in our task, and it is not over. I think the complaining would die down if we just knew that the mods would not intervene the next time and cause the havok that ensued when people believed his words, honored his authority and stepped down, then were not available when needed. They are very upset they did not stay and ignore him. It turns out that ignoring the mod was the right course to take. People did the "right things" and it was our downfall.

I did not multi, and many heeded the mods words.

We are justified to be upset. But it is history.

The point is to look to the future. Will the mods stop the next invasion of Francos? We need to know. And whatever is said, it will be taken down and written in stone.
So what say you?
We wait your answer.

BTW, my main nation is CandelLife, I am the minister of Justice for the West Pacific.

Don't worry Fyreheart, the mods know we appreciate them. You're wasting your time trying to convince those whining here that failing to steal a region through bug exploitation is not a conspiracy by the mods.

They didn't deserve to win, but they'll wail and cry about the fact they weren't allowed to cheat to gain power in a region. It's as simple as that.

I understand my words are probably in vain, but I was almost seething at the lack of intelligence some people were displaying, and needed to say something.

I mean for Isis's sake, people were calling for Neuts head on a plate! WTF??

I say again, if situations had been reversed and Francos's army/supporters had been squashed, people would be congratulating the mods.

An interesting point has been made. Where does the point of simple ejection stop and the point of griefing begin? The lines probably paper thin, but I think it needs to be identified.

Don't worry Fyreheart, the mods know we appreciate them. You're wasting your time trying to convince those whining here that failing to steal a region through bug exploitation is not a conspiracy by the mods.

They didn't deserve to win, but they'll wail and cry about the fact they weren't allowed to cheat to gain power in a region. It's as simple as that.

I understand my words are probably in vain, but I was almost seething at the lack of intelligence some people were displaying, and needed to say something.

I mean for Isis's sake, people were calling for Neuts head on a plate! WTF??

I say again, if situations had been reversed and Francos's army/supporters had been squashed, people would be congratulating the mods.

An interesting point has been made. Where does the point of simple ejection stop and the point of griefing begin? The lines probably paper thin, but I think it needs to be identified.

That was me. Forgot I was logged in with Kozina. Sorry.

I think, in general, mods are needed. And they do, in general, a good job. I know, it's human to make mistakes (are mods human???), and last time, they really f*cked up. I think they should at least admit a mistake was made.

I think, in general, mods are needed. And they do, in general, a good job. I know, it's human to make mistakes (are mods human???), and last time, they really f*cked up. I think they should at least admit a mistake was made.

The only mistake that was made was that we should not of ruled so soon on the matter before hashing it out in our IRC channel first. What a lot of you may not realize is this was not an easy decision nor a quick one. The original decision to do nothing was made in haste and quickly. That was the mistake. What a lot of you may also not know is that we discussed this and hashed it out for over six or seven hours before the decision to intervene occurred. Many have stated that Neut acted alone.. this is untrue. Neut had the support of more then one mod, myself included. I personally sat in the IRC channel from 7:30 PM that night until 5:30 AM the next morning discussing this matter with Neut and others. We didn't in the end make a mistake. We were of the mind that the invasion was illegal and chose to act. Neut being the most senior moderator in the channel at the time was the one to take the lead as it should be. So he did. [violet] at this point had no idea what was going on. So we had to make a decision without the benefit of knowing what [violet] would do. We did! We in my opinion made the right decision at the time for the information we had and to protect the game in the sense of the larger picture. The game certainly does not revolve around the pacific, it just happen to be the region that was being affected at the time that was causing the most problems because of the glitch. So yes, we made a mistake by ruling to quickly before thinking about the implications of letting the invasion happen. Neut made a promise he truly believed he could come through with if it was latter decided by [violet] that the invasion was legal. However, Neut never broke that promise as much as it was decided again by [violet] that this was not an action that would be in the best interest of the game.

The good that came out of all this is now there is policy... if this ever happens again we know what to do. At the time we were flying blind. Surely you can appreciate that? The mods of this game give of their time selflessly to all of you to help make this game an enjoyable and fair experience. I think we should all remember that. No matter how we in the end would of ruled, there would of been people upset with us. There was no right or wrong here.. it was a judgement call. The call that was made I supported. I didn't make a mistake in doing so. Either did Neut. It could of gone either way. In the end [violet] set the policy as it is supposed to be. Now we have a map to follow. At the time we didn't. I suspect any of you, with all due respect could not of done any better of a job at the time, because remember no matter what we would have done people would of been upset with us. You may just be in the group that didn't get what you wanted. That doesn't mean it was unfair nor does it mean we were biased in our decision.

I really believe this has been done to death now.. perhaps it is time to move on.

Stephanie
Forum Mod

hear, hear! listen to the mods.

[quote="Tactical Grace"]An appeal to reason:

Suppose you have spent months playing the game in your little corner, becoming the proud Delegate of a moderately-sized region. Everything is rolling along nicely.

Then you log in to discover that you are no longer the Delegate. You visit the Technical Forum, and discover that hundreds of Delegates are in the same position because of a bug.

Later, you notice a large number of UN nations enter your region and swap endorsements. You watch with alarm, but can do nothing. When you log in the next day, you and the nations endorsing you are in the Rejected Realms.

Naturally, you complain to the Moderators. But no, they cannot help you because the situation in The Pacific, its successful take-over, set a highly visible precedent, and they cannot be seen to be selective or inconsistent in their actions. You are free to attempt to recapture your region, but the invasion was legal, and technically not a griefing. You were in the right, it was not your fault, but tough luck.


This is not exactly but essentially what violet has said, is it not. By allowing the invasion to go ahead, although degraded and confused by contradictory rulings. So now we are to believe that no, violet was wrong and that Neut was right (except of course for the part where the situation would be recreated) all along. This is not intended to be a smart ass remark. This has wound around so much that it no longer makes sense.

What is the ruling? Glitches make for legal invasion? (This appears to be what Violet said) Glitches will not be allowed to affect gameplay? Or when there is a Glitch lots of rulings will be made in order to confuse as many as possible? (sorry but that was the result) (yes yes, good faith and all that, That is really contractual law and if we went by that there would be damages etc. but lets not go there) If you can see through my generally annoyed mood today I would actually appreciate a response.

And just for the record I support the mods and think you all do a generally good job under difficult circumstances. I will not pull any punches to curry favor when I disagree however (I fully realize you guys are probably thinking, so what). So here is your Thank You. (Yes you too Neut) :)

Fyreheart, the point is fuzzy here because although there have been hundreds of nations ejected, many were puppets created after Francos' rise, and many were puppets attempting to overthrow Francos, etc.

I can commiserate and accept that the job of the mods is hard and thankless. I canaccept that there were mistakes made. I get infuriated when I listen to revisionist statements about how nothing was done wrong but that even if it did that it was for the good and noone could have been expected to do any better. That is just sucky reasoning. Argh. I was a little annoyed at the flip floping on rulings this morning but reading the lame explainations is too much. Then to have to put up with even lamer and condescending comments from mods who know we have no recourse is just too much. I actually like you guys and think you do a good job. But if we are to swollow the happy horse**** that now noone did anything wrong??????????
Please. Who do you expect to believe that. It is possible that at the time descisions were made the individuals thought they were doing the right thing. But let there be no mistake on this. Contradictory statements by authority figures in this game confused and injured nations.
Thank you for all of your efforts to all Mods and Admin, but please don't expect to get away with rewriting reality.

I can commiserate and accept that the job of the mods is hard and thankless. I canaccept that there were mistakes made. I get infuriated when I listen to revisionist statements about how nothing was done wrong but that even if it did that it was for the good and noone could have been expected to do any better. That is just sucky reasoning. Argh. I was a little annoyed at the flip floping on rulings this morning but reading the lame explainations is too much. Then to have to put up with even lamer and condescending comments from mods who know we have no recourse is just too much. I actually like you guys and think you do a good job. But if we are to swollow the happy horse**** that now noone did anything wrong??????????
Please. Who do you expect to believe that. It is possible that at the time descisions were made the individuals thought they were doing the right thing. But let there be no mistake on this. Contradictory statements by authority figures in this game confused and injured nations.
Thank you for all of your efforts to all Mods and Admin, but please don't expect to get away with rewriting reality.

Who said any one is re-writing history? Look up my posting.. this is the first time I've said any thing on the subject. You were not there for those many, many hours behind closed doors when this was being discussed. I was. How I described it is how it went down and quite frankly all your complaining is starting to grow some what tiresome on the masses I would suspect. It's a game.. it's a free game. Yes, mods are but mere mortals.. sorry if that shocks any of you.. Grow up and get over it. At the end of the day, we didn't even owe YOU an explanation. We explained because we ARE fair. Not because we had to. More people need to realize we do this to help the game, most of us do realize it is ONLY a game. If you were paying to play it.. then I'd say b*tch away.. but you're not. So enough already. It is rather easy for you to sit in your glass house and throw stones and speculate what was and wasn't discussed or decided and by whom... yet it's just that, speculation. Don't pretend like you have some wisdom of what happened behind closed doors, when you don't.

So, the question I have now is this... Are you done yet?

Stephanie
Forum Mod

Grivinis, chill.

Neut: There has to be a way to find out what nations weren't puppets, and were...individuals? That sounds weird, but I'm hoping you know what I mean.

Steph: Essentially, you said what I did. Great minds think alike, eh?
Even though you never talk to me on MSN anymore. *sniff*

In the interests of civility I will chill.

I would note however that it would be nice sometime if it were possible to debate an issue without having someone claim you made statements you didn't make or being told to grow up and get over it. These are standard comments used on these forums for lack of meaningful discourse.

In the interests of civility I will chill.

I would note however that it would be nice sometime if it were possible to debate an issue without having someone claim you made statements you didn't make or being told to grow up and get over it. These are standard comments used on these forums for lack of meaningful discourse.

Actually no Grivinis, that is not the case. In a court of law I believe the objection used is often "Asked and Answered" The judge usually then instructs the lawyer to move on in another direction. You had your say.. you have done nothing but complain and complain for the last two days. There is nothing else to be gained by repeating yourself over and over again because you don't like the answers you are getting. Most if not all of your arguments have become redundant and not to mention addressed. I see no point in you going on and on about it other then to satisfy some need within yourself to read the ramblings written by yourself over and over again. If growing up is not what you need.. certainly getting over it is.

Thank You.

Stephanie
Forum Mod

I have tried to be civil. If you cannot control yourself I will gladly point out each and every mis-statement you have made and then you may reply with your usual off topic insults. I will once again take the high road. You may of course do as you like.

I have tried to be civil. If you cannot control yourself I will gladly point out each and every mis-statement you have made and then you may reply with your usual off topic insults. I will once again take the high road. You may of course do as you like.

Objection overruled.

Gunchenjuris Special Panel
Republic of Goobergunchia

what does that mean?

I have tried to be civil. If you cannot control yourself I will gladly point out each and every mis-statement you have made and then you may reply with your usual off topic insults. I will once again take the high road. You may of course do as you like.

Well if you'd like to cite all three , this being the 4th post I've made on the subject.. By all means... knock yourself out.. ;)

Goobergunchia - you can't overrule me.. LOL... :lol:

Stephanie
Forum Mod

I have tried to be civil. If you cannot control yourself I will gladly point out each and every mis-statement you have made and then you may reply with your usual off topic insults. I will once again take the high road. You may of course do as you like.

Well if you'd like to cite all three , this being the 4th post I've made on the subject.. By all means... knock yourself out.. ;)

Goobergunchia you can't overrule me.. LOL... :lol:

Stephanie
Forum Mod

Don't worry...I was overruling Grivinis ICly. ;)

Although I can move it from the Gunchenjuris to the Foreign Ministry if you want....

(Gunchenjuris = Goobergunchian High Court)

Yeah yeah, what does that mean?
Overruled what?

I have tried to be civil. If you cannot control yourself I will gladly point out each and every mis-statement you have made and then you may reply with your usual off topic insults. I will once again take the high road. You may of course do as you like.

Well if you'd like to cite all three , this being the 4th post I've made on the subject.. By all means... knock yourself out.. ;)

Goobergunchia you can't overrule me.. LOL... :lol:

Stephanie
Forum Mod

Don't worry...I was overruling Grivinis ICly. ;)

Although I can move it from the Gunchenjuris to the Foreign Ministry if you want....

(Gunchenjuris = Goobergunchian High Court)

Hehe Goobergunchia you rule.. ;)

I have tried to be civil. If you cannot control yourself I will gladly point out each and every mis-statement you have made and then you may reply with your usual off topic insults. I will once again take the high road. You may of course do as you like.

Well if you'd like to cite all three , this being the 4th post I've made on the subject.. By all means... knock yourself out.. ;)

Goobergunchia you can't overrule me.. LOL... :lol:

Stephanie
Forum Mod

Don't worry...I was overruling Grivinis ICly. ;)

Although I can move it from the Gunchenjuris to the Foreign Ministry if you want....

(Gunchenjuris = Goobergunchian High Court)

Hehe Goobergunchia you rule.. ;)

[ooc: Thanks.]

Yeah yeah, what does that mean?
Overruled what?

Basically the Gunchenjuris overruled your objection to Stephistan's statement. It looks like they like her attorney better than yours....

Lord Goobergunch, Goobergunchian President
DU Regional Delegate

[ooc: Has anybody else ever posted IC in Moderation before?]

Well next time I will bring a better attorney. Or at least one who is a member of your mutual admiration society.
I am going to go and try my hardest to grow up now, while I'm at it maybe I will get over it too. :wink:

Well next time I will bring a better attorney. Or at least one who is a member of your mutual admiration society.
I am going to go and try my hardest to grow up now, while I'm at it maybe I will get over it too. :wink:

I believe this is looking like it will be settled out of court... 8)

I believe this is looking like it will be settled out of court... 8)

Hmm. I wonder if I can cash in on this...

*falls down*

Grivinis tripped me! My neck, my neck!

I believe this is looking like it will be settled out of court... 8)

Hmm. I wonder if I can cash in on this...

*falls down*

Grivinis tripped me! My neck, my neck!

LOL.. I'm not that kind of advocate..lol :lol: